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View Full Version : Photos - Arbel Patio We Just Completed


JimLewis
07-12-2009, 03:18 PM
Here is a patio we just finished using the Arbel Pavers. Just thought I'd share a few photos.......


Here is what the area looked like when we began......


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JimLewis
07-12-2009, 03:23 PM
Here are some after photos......


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JimLewis
07-12-2009, 03:24 PM
Sorry. We were still in the process of cleaning when I shot that second photo.....I wanted to get a few shots in before it was wet.....

wurkn with amish
07-12-2009, 03:50 PM
looks good Jim.
I like the pebbles against the arbel.

JimLewis
07-12-2009, 03:55 PM
Yah, that's the border of the water feature we installed.....

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JimLewis
07-12-2009, 03:56 PM
Here is a photo of that....

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http://www.lewislandscape.com/photos/gallery/albums/album33/WaterFeatureE.sized.jpg

Bru75
07-12-2009, 05:25 PM
Nice!
One heck of an improvement.

PlatinumLandCon
07-12-2009, 09:00 PM
Jim, how many times to you tamp poly sand into the joints? The level looks quite low to me, common problem when you let the water settle the sand instead of the tamper and gravity.

JimLewis
07-12-2009, 11:43 PM
Well, we typically add sand again after the first watering. Those wet photos were taken before we added more sand. We usually add a little more after the first watering in places where it looks low. But I am not sure the Arbel pavers look good with sand filled all the way to the tops anyway. I think it looks a little more like natural flagstone to have the sand be a tad lower anyway. But I could be wrong.

Anyway, if there's a better way, I am always open learning how to do something better. We've only been doing pavers for a couple years. And the first year we didn't do too many. You tamp it with what?

klkanders
07-13-2009, 02:41 AM
Looks nice Jim! I am over on the lighting forum more often than here. I see you added some lights in your design. What type of wall light did you use? Is it an Integral, Vista or?
If you don't mind what did your lighting system consist of?
Thanks for sharing the pics!

Keith

JimLewis
07-13-2009, 02:59 AM
Well, I always prefer to use Unique Lighting. But can feel a customer out well enough to know which price point they are going to be at. These guys wouldn't have gone for lighting if I had priced out an all-Unique system.

My second fav. brand is FX Luminaire. So those pathway lights are FXL and so are the 5 spot lights in and around the waterfall. One submersible light right underneath the big waterfall.

The step lights are Integral, yes. Love those!

We also wired in the underside of their deck so that we could eventually install some of the FXL TraveCasa down lights on each side of each post there under the deck. But they're adding Dri-Below under the deck and painting the deck and painting the house. So after all that's done we'll install the TraveCasa lights on two sides of each post.

FXL Transformer as well. 600w, I think.

Rex Mann
07-13-2009, 03:42 PM
Are the step units buried? They give the illusion of being set on top of the MA.
Also, why wet the poly sand then add more? We compact once without sand, add the poly compact again, then add water.

Peace,

Rex

PaversInstalled.Com
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BrandonV
07-13-2009, 05:00 PM
that must have used a ton of fill

JimLewis
07-13-2009, 05:55 PM
that must have used a ton of fill

Several tons, actually. Yah, it was a serious butt load of fill.

JimLewis
07-13-2009, 06:00 PM
Are the step units buried? They give the illusion of being set on top of the MA.
Also, why wet the poly sand then add more? We compact once without sand, add the poly compact again, then add water.

Peace,

Rex

PaversInstalled.Com
Posted via Mobile Device

We've been pretty much self taught when it comes to pavers. We used to hire out for paver installations then a few years ago. At that point, I finally realized we could probably do a better job of installing pavers than our sub was doing. So we began to do them in-house. But we really didn't have anyone to teach us. So we've been learning on our own.....getting a little better at it every time.

I guess we just didn't ever think to compact the pavers again after the sand. We always just did it that way. That's the way the other guy did it. I didn't realize it was common to do it your way. But I will definitely do that on the next paver install we do. I'm learning more and more as we go. But I think we're doing pretty well. I know this; We might not know everything about pavers yet. But I see a LOT of paver jobs - every week - that were installed by contractors and look a whole lot worse than ours do. So I feel like we're doing better than most in our area. But I know there is room for improvement. That's why it helps to post on Lawnsite and get some feedback like this.....

STL Ponds and Waterfalls
07-13-2009, 07:09 PM
Jim, do you compact the pavers after you set them? Wait until you sweep in the sand and use your compactor to viberate the sand into the joints. Makes it quick and cuts some labor time off your job, plus you get better interlock.

Lite4
07-13-2009, 11:50 PM
Jim, do you compact the pavers after you set them? Wait until you sweep in the sand and use your compactor to viberate the sand into the joints. Makes it quick and cuts some labor time off your job, plus you get better interlock.

I do the same. Works well.

Lite4
07-13-2009, 11:52 PM
looks good Jim.
I like the pebbles against the arbel.

I noticed the pebbles too. I like the contrast.

Sand level looks about right to me. I don't like it when they are too full.

AztlanLC
07-14-2009, 12:27 AM
just make sure you have a padding on your compactor to not scuffed pavers.

Mr. Vern
07-14-2009, 08:25 PM
Jim - we are using the Basalite Artisan pavers which are a competitive product to the Arbel. My question is what have you come up with for edge restraint on the jagged edges? We have tried all different approaches, but have not found that perfect solution to retain the sand long term. Normal edge restraint doesn't bend enough. Also, do you seal them when you are done?

JimLewis
07-14-2009, 08:53 PM
We've been able to get Snap-Edge to bend enough that it's pretty close. It doesn't touch 100% of the jagged edges 100% of the time. But it does touch enough of each paver to hold each paver in place so it doesn't move. Then we just fill in that area with river rock, barkmulch, whatever. I'll try to draw up a diagram and attach it below to give you an idea of what I mean...

You can use the aluminum edging. That stuff will bend to any shape you want. But it's kind of a PITA to bend. So it's a lot of work. But that would bend to fit the exact shape. We gave up on that idea because it was too much work.


The black line below represents the jagged edge of the Arbel. The red line represents the edge restraint. It's ugly. MS Paint.... But you get the point.

STL Ponds and Waterfalls
07-14-2009, 11:01 PM
A smotth cut edge looks the best just like real flagstone applications, but the cobbles do a great transition here. I like the smooth radius cut when it's a planting bed.

Mr. Vern
07-16-2009, 02:29 PM
Thanks Jim!

That's what we have been doing, but we still find that sand can wash out over time. We have been toying with the idea of putting silicone in the joints just to give a little extra retention, but have not tried it yet.

STL Ponds - I tend to agree with you that the smooth is better looking, but when it comes to making pathways people really like the jagged wandering look. At the end of the day, it's what the customer prefers that matters. As long as we can do the job right and be able to know that it will last!

So tell me this, how do you keep the polymeric sand from staining the pavers? We have found that it tends to leave a film that is next to impossible to get off of the pavers.

Bru75
07-16-2009, 05:59 PM
Use a blower to get every trace of sand off the top of the pavers before wetting, and then be sure not to spay too much water all at once. Spray lightly multiple times until the sand is wet all the way through and there should be no staining.

zedosix
07-16-2009, 06:25 PM
Thanks Jim!

That's what we have been doing, but we still find that sand can wash out over time. We have been toying with the idea of putting silicone in the joints just to give a little extra retention, but have not tried it yet.

STL Ponds - I tend to agree with you that the smooth is better looking, but when it comes to making pathways people really like the jagged wandering look. At the end of the day, it's what the customer prefers that matters. As long as we can do the job right and be able to know that it will last!

So tell me this, how do you keep the polymeric sand from staining the pavers? We have found that it tends to leave a film that is next to impossible to get off of the pavers.

Change brands, there are some sands that stick real bad to the surface. I like permacons brand best. Techo second. The sand I get from our unilock distributor leaves alot of cement staining on my brick.

Mr. Vern
07-17-2009, 07:23 PM
I'll try a different brand and see how that works. One of the tricks we have come up with is to seal the pavers first and then put the polymeric in. It's a pain though because it totally interrupts the flow of the work.

STL Ponds and Waterfalls
07-18-2009, 02:27 AM
Zedo, what's your take on Alliance "Supersand" since it's from your region?

zedosix
07-18-2009, 08:20 AM
Zedo, what's your take on Alliance "Supersand" since it's from your region?

Sorry no comment since we haven't used that brand.

Humble Earth Mover
07-18-2009, 08:13 PM
I'll try a different brand and see how that works. One of the tricks we have come up with is to seal the pavers first and then put the polymeric in. It's a pain though because it totally interrupts the flow of the work.


I wouldn't seal freshly laid pavers. It can take 6 mo to a year for all the efflorescence to leach out of them.

Better to use better poly and make sure your surface is 100% dust free before wetting. If you do it right there is no staining.

Keith, Super Sand is a great product. We use it on every job it gets rock solid.