First bankrupty.....

[DanaMac]

.... from a customer that owes me money. Not a big deal. Family members of a friend of mine. Husband out of work for months, wife working parttime. Both are in their mid-upper 50s. They only owe about $175. He informed me yesterday about it, and they intend to pay me, but his lawyer wants him to wait before paying anybody anything. I may just tell him to forget about it.

Now if it was a commercial project and they owed $30,000 or something, that would be different. I've heard horror stories of situations like that, and some of you probably have had it happen to you.

[Wet_Boots]

I wouldn't be a greedhead for the money, but I would let it ride for an extended time period, and not instantly write off the unpaid bill.

[Kiril]

I would cut it in half (or reduce to out of pocket expenses) and tell them to pay it when they can. $175 bucks ain't shiit in the grand scheme of things.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

One great thing about service. No killer unpaid invoices. I'd sit on it myself and send a new invoice at the same price in 6 months if not paid. I'm not one to have sympathy for bankruptcies. seen some pretty scammy shoddy BRs. Had a person who had gone through a BR tell me I hope we never have to go through that again. They obviously learned nothing the first go round.

[Stuttering Stan]

Last year when foreclosures went through the roof, I lost roughly $450. Customer moved out overnight and vanished into the darkness. I called the mortgage company and they wouldn't help me out. Lesson learned.

[capelawncare.com]

If he files bancruptcy, he wont have have to pay you a thing. Nor can you attempt to collect it after he files.

[DanaMac]

If he files bancruptcy, he wont have have to pay you a thing. Nor can you attempt to collect it after he files.

He told me he is planning on still paying us. Just not immediately.

[hoskm01]

If he files bancruptcy, he wont have have to pay you a thing. Nor can you attempt to collect it after he files.
Thats not necessarily how bankruptcy works.

[Wet_Boots]

In most instances of a bad debt for sprinkler service, it would be possible to file a lien on the property where the work was done. Bankruptcy does not cancel out liens.

[Waterit]

This should go under your new thread on tips and tricks, Dana. ALWAYS invoice when the job is complete, protects your rights. If we're working for someone I have misgivings about, I have them sign my copy of the invoice before I leave. I have also started invoicing by e-mail, which leaves a trail that the legal guys can follow.

In FL, what we do is considered improvements to real property and becomes part of the value of that property. This can't be canceled out by bankruptcy - at the same time, FL law says you can't lose your house in a bankruptcy, so you're screwed unless the deadbeat tries to sell.

[M L Thomas]

Ahhh the joy's of bankruptcy. And service work does not insulate you! When Delphi filed 3-4 years ago they owed me $2,700 for service work. I started getting letters from different companies that were buying the Delphi debt offering 40% of what was owed. It was tempting but I held out till the offer after 2 yrs got to 90% and I took the money. Delphi still in debt and I bet I would get less than 50% if I held out to the end, plus the loss of interest.

Here's a horror story for you - last year had a scumbag homeowner slip thru and we did $1,900 worth of work for him at his house that he now is trying to sell for $1.2 million. He did not pay, so after 4 months I sent him to collections, this was mid September. December 1st Bad Bob, my collection agent, called and said this guy was not going to pay & recommended we take him to court, I would incur some court costs but improved my odds for getting paid. We filed. Unknown to us at the time this POS had filed for bankruptcy, and listed us as a creditor, but the Federal Court sent out a notice via regular mail to me that I never received, they do not send these registered or certified which they dammed well should. So January 3 this year I received a notice that customers attorney is filing a contempt charge against me with the court because I had violated Federal bankruptcy law by suing him after he filed. It did not matter that I did not recieve the notice from the court.

And they did! I got suppoened to court along with Bad Bob's attorney that filed the claim and wanted $1,500 in damages for attorney's fees and emotional trauma. I ain't making this up. Long long story, but I ended up fined $100 for my "technical Violation" of the law and had to pay the POS attorney and ex-client. The other attorney did get scolded for not handling this properly in the Judges eyes, he should have picked up the phone and called the collection agents attorney and informed him they in fact were in bankruptcy, and he basically called my ex-client a liar for making up phony claims about emotional trauma. It was almost worth the price of admission, $100 fine paid to other attorney, no attorney's fees for my guy and a half a day in court, but the principal of the whole thing pissed me off and still does.

[irrig8r]

In most instances of a bad debt for sprinkler service, it would be possible to file a lien on the property where the work was done. Bankruptcy does not cancel out liens.

How does that work if the property is foreclosed on (after a lien is filed in time I mean)?

Does the lender then owe the bill? Does it vary from state to state?

[M L Thomas]

In FL, what we do is considered improvements to real property and becomes part of the value of that property. This can't be canceled out by bankruptcy - at the same time, FL law says you can't lose your house in a bankruptcy, so you're screwed unless the deadbeat tries to sell.

Same in Ohio and I suspect most places.

[Wet_Boots]

If the title is clouded because you filed a lien, you can wait for the payment to find you. Someone will want your signature on a release and will pay up to get it.

[mx315]

I did work for a condo complex and they didn't pay for four months. I heard through a realtor friend that they might file bankruptcy and I may never get my money. I went straight to the court house and filed a lien on the property... it cost me $10. They let the bank have the property back and the bank was trying to sell units in a auction. Not a single condo could be sold until I was paid in full and I went back to the court house to file a release of lien. I got all my money and the new management company gave us the contract for monthly maintenance. I figured out the Florida lien law is a powerful tool if I don't get paid. But for $175 I would give the guy some time and see if he pays it on his own.

[mowerman111]

I just had blockbuster video file BR but lucky they only owe me 285.00. Several years ago I had a convenience store file and they owed me a couple thousand that hurts. I feel lucky after twenty five years in the biz that I haven't had more than that.

[Waterit]

I feel lucky after twenty five years in the biz that I haven't had more than that.

Amen to that - I've charged off less than a grand as bad debts in 21 years.

[AI Inc]

I had a customer that wrote mortgages go bankrupt last yr. Only owed $180 . He paid it when all was said and done. I still service him.

[DanaMac]

Amen to that - I've charged off less than a grand as bad debts in 21 years.

Same here. I think I've let go of about a $1200-$1500 in 14 years. One landscaper ended up going to jail for fraud and forgery. Another went under and had a lot of problems that I did not want to tack onto. Handful of residential people as well.

[DanaMac]

This should go under your new thread on tips and tricks, Dana. ALWAYS invoice when the job is complete, protects your rights.

In this case, he wasn't even home for the services. So payment at the time of service wasn't possible. A lot of our work is without the owner home. Or they show us what is wrong, and head off to work.

[Wet_Boots]

In this case, he wasn't even home for the services. So payment at the time of service wasn't possible. A lot of our work is without the owner home. Or they show us what is wrong, and head off to work.Eons ago, I had a nobody-home repair for a new customer. Key under the mat. Rebuild a couple of brass zone valves (in the basement, or maybe it was the garage) and leave the invoice. Buy the afternoon paper (they had afternoon papers back then) and I see my new customer's name on the front page. It's a story about a con artist who owes money to just about everybody, including me now. :(

[DanaMac]

Good news. The customer in my original post called today, said all was good and he could pay us. Also had another leak needing repair - cracked valve due to high pressure. So he paid us for both on site.

NOW - I had another call today, existing customer, has two broken heads. Asks if she can pay half now and half in Sept. because her husband has been out of work for 9 months. Hmmmm... seems he would have plenty of time to try and figure out how to repair it himself then. WTF!!!

[Mike Leary]

WTF!!!

Am I going to have to come over there in Sept. and kick your butt for even giving these dorks the time of day?

[DanaMac]

Am I going to have to come over there in Sept. and kick your butt for even giving these dorks the time of day?

I convinced her to pay all of it at time of service, or we won't come out. Even gave her the option of credit card payment.

Gotta take what we can get right now.

[irritation]

Am I going to have to come over there in Sept. and kick your butt for even giving these dorks the time of day?

OK, I have to ask what the pic is... is that a feminine napkin floating in pond scum? :laugh:

[ryde307]

This is totally related cause its not all from irrigation work but we seem to write off 1-3000 in bad debt every year. Just take it as part of business alot of other people around here lose very large amounts in compairison.
Anyways we send them to collections call them every minute I possibly can to annoy them and knock on there door any chance I am in the neighborhood. We get 25-50% of it doing that and the rest is almost a lost cause.
We have loaded a dump truck with snow and dumped it in a driveway at 5 in the morning for an unpaid bill. The home owner was watching I smiled and waved I think he understood. I know I could have been fined and got in trouble but it just felt good. Wish I was there to watch him shovel it.

[hoskm01]

This is totally related cause its not all from irrigation work but we seem to write off 1-3000 in bad debt every year. Just take it as part of business alot of other people around here lose very large amounts in compairison.
Anyways we send them to collections call them every minute I possibly can to annoy them and knock on there door any chance I am in the neighborhood. We get 25-50% of it doing that and the rest is almost a lost cause.
We have loaded a dump truck with snow and dumped it in a driveway at 5 in the morning for an unpaid bill. The home owner was watching I smiled and waved I think he understood. I know I could have been fined and got in trouble but it just felt good. Wish I was there to watch him shovel it.
We'll keep on trucking the day you go to jail for being a dicck.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Seems so out of character for MN. I thought that was the land of NPR and Garrison Keiller?

[hoskm01]

Seems so out of character for MN. I thought that was the land of NPR and Garrison Keiller?
I love Garrison Keiller.

Pete, did u close on your casa?

[DanaMac]

Pete, did u close on your casa?

Yes, when's the brisket and Shiner party.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

I love Garrison Keiller.

Pete, did u close on your casa?

Closed on the FC one. Still negotiating on the Dallas one. Hitting the road today to go back up to FC. Need to get my office set up there and make that my new home. I'm so pumped to get going again. This twilight zone period is killing me.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Yes, when's the brisket and Shiner party.

The party will be after blowout season. I'll smoke a bison. You have to go hunt it of course.

[hoskm01]

The party will be after blowout season. I'll smoke a bison. You have to go hunt it of course.
I was just talking about doing that. You boys wanna go thirdsies on a luffablo?

[DanaMac]

The party will be after blowout season. I'll smoke a bison. You have to go hunt it of course.

Hmmm.... there is a bison ranch just up the road from me.

[DanaMac]

I was just talking about doing that. You boys wanna go thirdsies on a luffablo?

That might do. Let me know details.

[DanaMac]

Matt - if you head to your cabin this weekend, there is a craft brew festival in Manitou Springs. Doubt I'm going at this point.

[hoskm01]

That might do. Let me know details.
Found one on a 7000 acre ranch up this way, towards Estes, 1850 for the hunt, with guide, thence processing fees. Average young, non-trophy (I just want the meat) bull yeilds about 300 lbs of meat. Reckon processing might cost 500. 2350/300=$7.83 average per pound of meat. Seems pricey, but who knows. I bet we could find a meat processor with the hookup and just buy a buff and have it slaughtered, save most of that money on the hunt. I might have issues killing animals and then looking them in the eye, anyway.

[hoskm01]

Matt - if you head to your cabin this weekend, there is a craft brew festival in Manitou Springs. Doubt I'm going at this point.
Dang... Was just down there last weekend. Friends in town this weekend from the AZ. Will likely be down the following weekend, again, though.

[DanaMac]

I'm definitely no hunter. I could do birds for some reason, but not a mammal. Not sure why. I think there are outfits out there where we don't have to do the hunt and kill. I'll check if the ranch near me does it. I think it is Black Forest Bison.

[DanaMac]

Dang... Was just down there last weekend. Friends in town this weekend from the AZ. Will likely be down the following weekend, again, though.

And of course, I'll be in Oregon that following wknd.

[AI Inc]

Bison , yum yum.

[DanaMac]

Black Forest Bison (http://www.blackforestbison.com)

Quarter Bison (~150 lbs hcw) All NaturalGluten Free $5.55 hcw*
Side of Bison (~300 lbs hcw) All NaturalGluten Free $5.30 hcw*

[Dripit good]

Bison , yum yum.

Never had it before. Is it gamey like venison, or more like beef?

[DanaMac]

Never had it before. Is it gamey like venison, or more like beef?

I've never felt it had a gamey taste. Much like beef. I like elk over deer/venison.

[Wet_Boots]

For those prices, I would suffer with Australian lamb chops instead.

[AI Inc]

Like the best beef ya ever had. Not gamy at all.

[hoskm01]

Black Forest Bison (http://www.blackforestbison.com)

Quarter Bison (~150 lbs hcw) All NaturalGluten Free $5.55 hcw*
Side of Bison (~300 lbs hcw) All NaturalGluten Free $5.30 hcw*
Hmmm... Guess I thought the mass purchasing would be cheaper. But you cant argue with Bison Meat.

Have fun in Oregon. Going to see Windy's fam, correct?

[AI Inc]

For those prices, I would suffer with Australian lamb chops instead.

Go back to your PB&J ya cheapo.

[hoskm01]

Never had it before. Is it gamey like venison, or more like beef?
Much like beef, only tastier, leaner, maybe a bit smokier.

[Dripit good]

Really.........I must try some.

I like beef. :clapping:

[DanaMac]

Have fun in Oregon. Going to see Windy's fam, correct?

Yes. We just had my 20 year HS reunion here in town, and Windy's is next weekend. Gives us a reason to go visit her family. I love hitting the PNW area.

[AI Inc]

Healthier then beef too, less fat, more protein.

[DanaMac]

Healthier then beef too, less fat, more protein.

Yes, very lean. The ranch near me is all open ranch, no feed lots, all natural grass fed.

[hoskm01]

Yes. We just had my 20 year HS reunion here in town, and Windy's is next weekend. Gives us a reason to go visit her family. I love hitting the PNW area.
I was wondering if you were actually going to go to your reunion. How was it? Is it worth going to see "those people"?

Ive got my 10 coming up in 2.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

I was just talking about doing that. You boys wanna go thirdsies on a luffablo?

I'm in. But on top of that my family in both Montana and FC have access to beef right off the farm. We can choose our cow I think. It will be grass fed no corn fattening. They say that Montana sweetgrass makes for awesome cattle beef.

[Wet_Boots]

Go back to your PB&J ya cheapo.That's for lunch today. I do wonder how it is that lamb chops from Australia are consistently less expensive than American ones. You'd think transportation costs alone would make them more expensive.

[AI Inc]

Lamb becomes worth less, once is has been violated.

[Dripit good]

Mmmmmm ~ lamb chops with garlic & Cajun cooked over charcoal with the edges burnt.

A tasty treat. :clapping:

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

I could shoot the mammal. I've decided that shooting a mammal personally is far more humane that what goes on in those slaughter houses. Elk is on my to try list. I'm told it is the best of the hunting meats.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Mmmmmm ~ lamb chops with garlic & Cajun cooked over charcoal with the edges burnt.

A tasty treat. :clapping:

I'll start off shooting a lamb.

[AI Inc]

Moose is pretty damn good too. Ive still got friends asking for more, but all 400 lbs is gone now.

[ARGOS]

Yes. We just had my 20 year HS reunion here in town, and Windy's is next weekend.

I went to the wife's twentieth this summer. All the girls are fat and half of them have boob jobs and alot of them had to have their tat or pierce to stay young. Yucko. It's like if you want to look thin and healthy go to Walmart.

I was happy I choose my wife.

[Wet_Boots]

Why not shoot a veal? Veal chops is tasty.

[Dripit good]

Poor critters.
:rolleyes:

[MarcSmith]

This can't be canceled out by bankruptcy - at the same time, FL law says you can't lose your house in a bankruptcy, so you're screwed unless the deadbeat tries to sell. ro refi or retitle in his kids name, ect...nice thing about fla. the lein is good for 20 years. consider it an investment...

[DanaMac]

I could shoot the mammal. I've decided that shooting a mammal personally is far more humane that what goes on in those slaughter houses. Elk is on my to try list. I'm told it is the best of the hunting meats.

I read Fast Food Nation when it first came out, which follows some of the Greeley, CO slaughter houses. I swore off red meat for a while after that. Yes hunting is more humane by far. The nasty conditions some of the ranches and slaughter houses are in is sickening.

We have Ranch Foods Direct (http://www.ranchfoodsdirect.com) he in town. great place to get good meats.

Ranch Foods Direct is a retail store and meat packing facility created by rancher Mike Callicrate to bring healthful, high quality, naturally tender meats directly to consumers straight from the ranch.

The goal of this one-of-a-kind program is to create a business that benefits both ranchers and consumers. RFD’s cattle raising, processing, and distribution system assures incomparable quality, wholesomeness, eating satisfaction, and a mutually rewarding relationship of trust and responsibility between the rancher and you the customer..

[DanaMac]

I was wondering if you were actually going to go to your reunion. How was it? Is it worth going to see "those people"?

Ive got my 10 coming up in 2.

I was really on the fence at going. I had a blast, but would not have gone if I did not live here. We are due a trip to Oregon, so we are going to hers. If she did not have family there we probably wouldn't go.

Yes there are drunken idiots there, a bunch of clowns too. But it was all fun. Good time.

[bmwsmity]

....

Now if it was a commercial project and they owed $30,000 or something, that would be different. I've heard horror stories of situations like that, and some of you probably have had it happen to you.

at a large scale commercial project where i live the general contractor filed bankruptcy mid-project.... the electrician on the project is owed $3.1 million. :cry:

other contractors on it are owed millions as well. really crappy situation.

[MarcSmith]

I've contemplated buying a cow or splitting with someone...but I don't have a standalone freezer maybe its time to get one. the "whole cow" is much cheaper than buying peice meal at safeway...

[DanaMac]

I've contemplated buying a cow or splitting with someone...but I don't have a standalone freezer maybe its time to get one. the "whole cow" is much cheaper than buying peice meal at safeway...

Thats my issue as well, but with a fridge/freezer in the kitchen, the garage, and my shop, I think I'll be able to make it work.

[MarcSmith]

I have the space, basement, garage, ect... one of my friend got a cow and I got about 20lbs from him, but It must have been an old cow that fed on grass from the jersey shore. it was awful...

I guess the key is to get a good cow...:)

[AI Inc]

Thats my issue as well, but with a fridge/freezer in the kitchen, the garage, and my shop, I think I'll be able to make it work.

Kinda funy story , my sister was home one night watching tv when here son in law called said " hey Joyce, remember that night we were upstate and we went out to that bar? , remember talkining to that farmer? Well he called last night . I guess we bought a pig" He calls back 10 minutes later and says " ya better find another freezer , seems we bought a cow too"

The moral of the story , be carefull what ya commit to when drinking with strangers.

[DanaMac]

Thats funny.

Cool thing about being able to put the meat in three different freezers. If one goes out you don't lose the entire stock. My bro in MT lost a giant freezer full of deer, elk, fish, duck, grouse one time. Something happened to the freezer and he didn't know for a week or so. I think he now has one that alerts him or has a light or something to let him know if it is out.

[MarcSmith]

we used to loose power when it even threatened to storm. so I got a 5000w generator... have not lost power since....go figure...

[ryde307]

I bought a huge chest freezer on craigslist last year for 50$. I bought it just for buying a cow.

[Mike Leary]

Power goes out, propane comes on: what's the big deal?

[Wet_Boots]

Power goes out, propane comes on: what's the big deal?So how many dead cows can you fit in that thing?

[Tom Tom]

Power goes out, propane comes on: what's the big deal?

Mike, was that mobile home an "extra" in the movie Independence Day? You know the scene where there are 100's of them driving across the desert?

Not sure if I saw it in that movie or maybe I'm confused with the 100's of time you've posted it on here. :laugh:

Your up to 2 beers now.

[MarcSmith]

this is what I get when my folks kick the bucket, assuming it isn't the cause for their kicking the bucket...Dad alwasy get the big toys....:)

[hoskm01]

this is what I get when my folks kick the bucket, assuming it isn't the cause for their kicking the bucket...Dad alwasy get the big toys....:)
I hope your parents dont kick the bucket any time soon, but I hope you enjoy that thing. NICE.

[Tom Tom]

Sweeeeeet RV

[MarcSmith]

I hope your parents dont kick the bucket any time soon, but I hope you enjoy that thing. NICE. they are still young...62... so maybe they'll get something nicer :)


it was nice they were up here two weeks ago and my AC was out...we hung out in the RV were it nice and cool...

[Mike Leary]

this is what I get when my folks kick the bucket, assuming it isn't the cause for their kicking the bucket...Dad alwasy get the big toys....:)

Looks like the box mine came in. :rolleyes:

[MarcSmith]

Looks like the box mine came in. :rolleyes:

see, now I have RV envy...:) although I don't envy the filling of the tanks... the 300HP Cat is a thirsty beast... I think dad got the larger one so he has some space to get away from mom....He had a boat, for a while. but no place to walk around and get away when your anchored out 100 yards from shore...