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View Full Version : Stone Patio with Gas Fire Pit


SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
07-15-2009, 09:11 PM
Wanted to post some pics of a project we have been working on the past few weeks. As you can see it is def. turning out to be a much prittier picture. we should have everything finished in about a week. the fire pit is not built just yet. it will go in tomorrow.

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
07-15-2009, 09:14 PM
Here are a few more

amscapes03
07-15-2009, 09:26 PM
Looks nice. Just curious, why did you pour concrete, and why the major pitch on the patio?

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
07-15-2009, 11:07 PM
Wet laying flag is the best method. dry laying it means that as it ages, if the customer does not maintain the joints, then it won't look good. The pitch is only 1" on 10' which is typical. it is a little stronger than that right at the door, but that was just to keep water out of that corner.

tthomass
07-15-2009, 11:23 PM
The vertical work is very nice. What will the cap be? Wet laying that is a headache. I prefer larger pieces.......small tend to shift too much and you'll reset it after you set a couple next to it etc. Additionally, lots of joints and very "busy". Just an opinion, but nice work.

tthomass
07-15-2009, 11:24 PM
So is the flag already set and then you're doing the wall?

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
07-15-2009, 11:57 PM
Thanks for the compliments

yes, the flag is set. after we finish the wall, we are going to grout everything. They can migrate some when laying them, but for the most part, if one or two don't fit just right, you just make a small adjustment to that stone.

The caps stones will be 3"-4" pieces like you see in pictures 3 and 4 in the second set. it matches the flagstone. I am still not sold on having the cap stones match the floor and not the wall, but that is what the customer faught for.

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
07-15-2009, 11:59 PM
larger pieces are nice for production, but it makes it harder to mix pallets sometimes if all you have is larger pieces.

AztlanLC
07-16-2009, 07:22 PM
That is beautiful work

2low4NH
07-16-2009, 11:27 PM
love the super man pose. patio will look good when its done. I see a few low stones though. i prefer to set as i go when working with flag stone. looks like you lay out all of your pieces then set after.

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
07-17-2009, 09:53 AM
we normally lay as we go, but in this situation we had a real picky customer who wanted to see the whole patio laid out before we started sticking them.

Lite4
07-17-2009, 04:17 PM
Looks really good! You have some talented masons. The verticals look tight.

2low4NH
07-17-2009, 05:37 PM
damn i hate customers like that. they are fine on hourly rate jobs but on a contract price youcan lose your ass quick

2low4NH
07-17-2009, 05:39 PM
if you do alot of this type of work you should look into the grout guns that run on a drill. best money i have ever spent it saves so much time. we used to hand tuck all our joints then i finally got the grout bags those saved alotof time but killed your hands then i broke down and got the grout gun. breakingfour generations of old masonry habits can be hard.

STRINGALATION
07-18-2009, 08:57 PM
ok rookie questions here
1. what is the black tar looking stuff for
2. am i to understand that the plumbing i see is dranige that got buried beneath grade
3. is the creek rock on the wall considered a veneer

ohh yeah i like hte look

2low4NH
07-19-2009, 12:05 AM
black stuff is either tar or waterproofer? dunno never use it.
The stone is a vaneer stone anything under 4 inch is vaneer basicly stuck on or not a stuctural part of the wall. plumbing usually runs out to day light or to a tank always below grade. nobody wants to see pipes

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
07-19-2009, 12:12 PM
thanks 2low4NH. you are correct, the black stuff is tar type waterproofing and if you don't use it behing your natural stone retaining walls, i would def. start. the problem is that if the wall is not waterproofed, then water can be obsorbed into the block and possibly make the veneer pop off. concrete block are very pourus.

"creek rock???"

2low4NH
07-19-2009, 03:02 PM
we never do vaneer over block. we do mostly natural rock walls and alot of facing over foundations. never really over block though. i will keep that in mind though.

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
08-07-2009, 10:16 PM
Here are the finished pics of the patio. to see the finished pics of the water fall and bog garden, go to the water feature thread i started.

capelawncare.com
08-07-2009, 10:29 PM
Thats the Cats Azz! Nice work!

Ground Effects NH
08-08-2009, 03:04 AM
Very Nice looking Southern
Is there any way to Acid wash the deck ? to bring out some color of the stone. Looks like alot of mortar residue or stained??

Lite4
08-08-2009, 08:31 AM
That's tight! Excellent work!

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
08-08-2009, 11:17 AM
I don't know much about the acid washing. i know you can do it to brick, but i have always been told not to use it on pavers and stone. the stone will come out looking just like the caps in a few months after the residue wears off.

wurkn with amish
08-08-2009, 03:23 PM
looks really nice- the patio

shade tree landscaping
08-09-2009, 09:03 AM
work looks great, however personally I don't like it. To many irregular lines and shapes, to much natrual stone, feel like your in a cave. Again its just personal taste, but work looks top notch

Vitiell0
08-09-2009, 03:21 PM
Looks VERY good!!

I just did a project recently similar to yours. Except we dry set the patio. Had the fire pit, wall going around with cap stones, and stone stair cases. We actually had to build the retaining wall up 5.5ft at the tallest point to make the patio level.

Your edges on the cap stones look fantastic. Is that just good masons with hand tools or did you have pieces custom cut?

If you don't mind answering. Around what did you bid the client for this job? Not including the water feature

shovelracer
08-09-2009, 06:57 PM
I'm not sure I'm seeing the pics right. On the outside wall did you tar the block then scratch coat over it? Wire mess under it? The scratch coat should have been more than sufficient to "seal" the block. I would have scratch coated and used tar for any below grade blocks. I'd like to know more about how you handled this.

Stone Creations
08-09-2009, 09:48 PM
Nice Work.!

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
08-09-2009, 10:05 PM
the whole back side of the wall was watersealed. once we back filled the wall, the portions that were left above grade were lathed and scratched then stoned. it was easier to do this so we could see where final grade would come out. Scratch coats will not waterproof the block if it is below grade.

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
08-09-2009, 10:09 PM
work looks great, however personally I don't like it. To many irregular lines and shapes, to much natrual stone, feel like your in a cave. Again its just personal taste, but work looks top notch

Shade,

I am not following you? How would you have done it different. Too much stone, would you have done a stone patio with wood sitting walls? that comment just doesn't make sense to me. I know everyone has their own opinion, I just don't see what you would have done different. would you have gone with all straight lines? flowing lines are a way to soften a hardscape. when i see this design, i see an elegant yet functional space.

shovelracer
08-09-2009, 10:22 PM
the whole back side of the wall was watersealed. once we back filled the wall, the portions that were left above grade were lathed and scratched then stoned. it was easier to do this so we could see where final grade would come out. Scratch coats will not waterproof the block if it is below grade.

Agreed that the scratch itself wouldnt waterproof by itself. I was not getting why you would not just scratch the block and seal the below grade scratch. Now I understand why you did it that way. Whatever works. Looks nice though.

P.Services
08-09-2009, 10:35 PM
can you explain what you mean by "scratch coat" ? is that the black stuff your talking about? im just lost on that. and what was the pvc pipe for in the first pics?

shovelracer
08-09-2009, 10:47 PM
scratch coat is the first coat of concrete applied to the block. all veneer applications need a scratch coat for the veneer to grab onto, normally you would just scratch the block and veneer that, but since it was sealed the way it was they needed to put up lath and scratch that.

P.Services
08-09-2009, 11:18 PM
ok, so after he blocked it up and let it set he applies a thin layer of mud to the side of the block and literally scratches it with a tool to make it kinda rough and grooved?

when you say it was lathed are we talking wood lath because the mud couldnt grab onto the dampproof material?

wouldn't it have been easier to scratch coat the top half and not get any damp proof on it at all?

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
08-09-2009, 11:26 PM
lath is a metal material that looks like expanded metal. you screw it to a structure that would not normally hold mortar. it allows you to put a scratch coat on top of it. the scratch coat has horizontal groves that help hold the stone to the vertical survace when the dry mud and new mud are pressed together.

the reason we did not just waterproof what was not stoned was because we had to determine what our final grade was going to be. It would not make sense to stone to a certain point hoping that would be a sufficient grade. Sometimes there are opportunities to do things several different ways and get the same result. in this case, this is what worked best with our planned work flow and that is why it happened that way.

the pipes are weep holes in the wall to allow it to drain faster. since they are below grade, we added collection pipes below grade and carried them to a catch basin in the lower portion of the yard.

P.Services
08-09-2009, 11:35 PM
Thanks for putting up with my ******ed questions.

I just really admire this kind of work and think it looks incredible. To me a block/uni lock wall looks like garbage compared to something like this that took beautiful natural materials and a artistic touch, combining them to form a awesome creation.

so the scratch coat is "holding onto" the metal as opposed to the block? because it would just flake or fall off the damp proof?

so i take it when you apply it to bare block the small dimpels in the block allow it to hold?

the veneer doesn't sit on any kind of ledge like brick on a house right? its just kinda stuck on like a sticker?

the pvc drains the inside of the wall or drains water through the wall thats coming off the patio? where is all this water coming from inside the wall? how does it get in?

P.Services
08-09-2009, 11:36 PM
does the wall sit on any footing or was it built on top of the slab?

ok im done asking sorry!

2low4NH
08-10-2009, 01:56 PM
yes there should be a footing under the wall. YOU CAN ACID WASH THAT PATIO!!!!!
we do it all the time just make sure its diluted down. usually half gallon to 4 gallons of water. gewt a deck scrub brush and go to town. work in small areas 10x10 rinse with fresh water. i do alot of natural stone set in mud and have never had a problem with it.
work looks great though.

shade tree landscaping
08-11-2009, 01:47 AM
Shade,

I am not following you? How would you have done it different. Too much stone, would you have done a stone patio with wood sitting walls? that comment just doesn't make sense to me. I know everyone has their own opinion, I just don't see what you would have done different. would you have gone with all straight lines? flowing lines are a way to soften a hardscape. when i see this design, i see an elegant yet functional space.

I would have gone with a paver surface, or possibly a different cultured stone for walls. Work looks great, just as I said earlier to many lines and iregular shapes.

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
08-11-2009, 08:23 AM
You mean to tell me that irregardless of money, you would have gone with pavers or cultured stone instead of Natural Stone? WoW. I will respect your opinion, but sure don't understand it.

Danscapes
08-11-2009, 08:35 AM
Looks good. I only only question the drainage. You said you have weep hole in the walls the drain to a collection system, but after a while the weep hole will get clogged with sediment. Then what? All of your drain system is below grade so there is now way to clean it out once it clogs.

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
08-11-2009, 11:24 AM
the weep holes are 2" SCH40 pipe, that means that you should have minimal sediment back up since you have a smooth surface for the water to run on. it is not a coregated system where sediment can collect in the nooks of the pipe. also they can be snaked if necessary.

The weep holes are also a back up to natural drainage. the entire patio even the portion that is bulging out, drains on its on. the weep holes are there to allow the patio to drain faster in heavy downpoors.

Not trying to be arrogant or rude, but this is not my first rodeo.

GLawn
08-13-2009, 08:06 PM
That work looks fn sick! All I want to know is how long did it take and what kind of cash you made because it is well earned.

2low4NH
08-13-2009, 09:14 PM
the weep holes are 2" SCH40 pipe, that means that you should have minimal sediment back up since you have a smooth surface for the water to run on. it is not a coregated system where sediment can collect in the nooks of the pipe. also they can be snaked if necessary.

The weep holes are also a back up to natural drainage. the entire patio even the portion that is bulging out, drains on its on. the weep holes are there to allow the patio to drain faster in heavy downpoors.

Not trying to be arrogant or rude, but this is not my first rodeo.

your work shows its not your first! i can say from my masonry side you did a nice job. i wont doubt your drainage. i never use drainage we let gravity do our work for us. a simple slope in a patio will do just fine. as long as the landscapers are doing there job correctly around the patios you should never have to worry about sediment. I blow off all my customers patios when i finish mowing this one would be no diff.

kaferhaus
08-18-2009, 09:43 AM
I love the design and the work is first class.

Thanks for sharing it.

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
08-18-2009, 11:22 PM
Thanks for all the compliments from everyone. A lot of times you do work that the customer likes, but doesn't know enough about to appreciate. It is always nice to have compliments from others who know what looks good and what doesn't.

Cheers...

paponte
08-21-2009, 05:40 PM
Very nice work. It's nice to know theres still guys doing natural stone work. :clapping:

2low4NH
08-24-2009, 01:37 PM
tats almost all i do! i prefer real over fake any day