PDA

View Full Version : zoysia grass complete kill


stressed
07-20-2009, 10:57 PM
Hey guys.I have a customer that has a 8,000 sq foot lawn and its all zoysia.He wants it killed and reseeded with other grass.I plan on mowing it real low before application and bagging it,then spray it with round up,wait a week and make sure roots died and if so start drilling new seed in.Any criticism or help is appreciated.I may need to use something with the round up to make it hotter.Anyone have experience with this.

Think Green
07-20-2009, 11:32 PM
You may want to think about renting a sod cutter and selling the sod to another customer, preferably me!! LOL!, since, I can't get any muda or zoysia sod currently.. Weather problemssssssssss????
A sod cutter will take the stuff down to the root zone of an inch or better. Haul off the stuff..................weew! this will be a chore! That is alot of zoysia! Once you get the sod out of the lawn, then check for any resprouts of zoysia. If that grass has an extensive root system it will come back. Guaranteed!--Check is in the mail!

Does this customer realize that you may or may not be able to completely remove all the necessary root systems of a vigorous grass like zoysia? They can overseed or plant another type of grass and still have shoots come up and take over in time?? I have a hard time getting muda and zoysia out of mulch beds with non-selective chems at multiple applications. The root systems are so extensive. Just a small rhizome or stolon is all it takes to start over.
Is this customer conscious of the risks of spending that kind of money for a maybe?

I Don't shy away from work, but if this customer is understanding to the possibilities, then do not guarantee anything!!!! Have it in writing and signed in Blood!! LOL! Ink pen will do just fine!

hughmcjr
07-20-2009, 11:50 PM
You may want to think about renting a sod cutter and selling the sod to another customer, preferably me!! LOL!, since, I can't get any muda or zoysia sod currently.. Weather problemssssssssss????
A sod cutter will take the stuff down to the root zone of an inch or better. Haul off the stuff..................weew! this will be a chore! That is alot of zoysia! Once you get the sod out of the lawn, then check for any resprouts of zoysia. If that grass has an extensive root system it will come back. Guaranteed!--Check is in the mail!

Does this customer realize that you may or may not be able to completely remove all the necessary root systems of a vigorous grass like zoysia? They can overseed or plant another type of grass and still have shoots come up and take over in time?? I have a hard time getting muda and zoysia out of mulch beds with non-selective chems at multiple applications. The root systems are so extensive. Just a small rhizome or stolon is all it takes to start over.
Is this customer conscious of the risks of spending that kind of money for a maybe?

I Don't shy away from work, but if this customer is understanding to the possibilities, then do not guarantee anything!!!! Have it in writing and signed in Blood!! LOL! Ink pen will do just fine!

I would not in any way shape or form consider a sod cutter for 8k of lawn. 1k, yes, 2k maybe beyond that it would be a nightmare. Sod cutters really are old school anyway and very few if any people use them the way they did years ago. Usually these days they are used to remove just sections of turf to turn into beds or whatever. He still is going to have the zoysia return, because unless it is hot and dry after removing the turf, the root system may not die off. In fact doesn't zoysia go dormant with complete top kill in winter and excessive summer heat? It then returns on its own.

Best bet is to hit it with glypho, and then wait for the kill off. I would wait two weeks and then if needed spray again ir rototill and then wait two weeks for it to return and spray again. Then rototill, rake, level and replant. Tell the customer if you are going to this length then he needs to be patient to have it done right. From start to finish could take minimum 2-4 weeks. Then it gives you time to make sure you got the kill.

garydale
07-21-2009, 09:18 AM
From experience:
I would not scalp the zoysia you need green tissue.
Spray with Roundup, respray with Roundup
Then remove heavy thatch/root layer with a sod cutter.Seeding into thatch is foolish.
We use a rolloff container/service to haul dead sod offsite.
Use the oportunity to test and adjust soil needs.(pH,fert. etc.)
No warranty of seeding. We do not warrant seeding, its a crop.
Give client extra seed for touchup.

garydale
07-21-2009, 09:35 AM
This may help?

http://www.landscape-america.com/grasses/zoysia_out.html

Think Green
07-21-2009, 12:04 PM
Hugh,
Being that I am from the South and you from Oregan, do you have extensive experience with Zoysia Japonica Spp?
Spraying this stuff with glyphosate even before scalping--dethatching--aerating this lawn isn't fruitful still. Repeat applications of glyphosate will indeed need to be used..
90% of our customers are growing zoysia turfgrass, and yes, it does go dormant in the winter---------but not completely! Zoysia will be ******ed and stunted by chemical pruning and spraying of round-up but the root systems are so extensive it is a nightmare to elliminate the stuff. I read articles from the U of A about these topics and talk to competitor landscape contractor's whom fight the same issues. We don't grow cool season grasses nor overseed with cool season turf, so it is hard for me to fathom eliminating zoysia and to overseed with cool season grass and not to come back and cause more problems in the future. This custome needs to know the truth!!!!!!
You can go into this lawn mow it down to 1 inch or less depending on what mower you have, use a power rake and get whatever materials out of the soil, rent a disposal bumpster.
All I was trying to say is; once this type of turf is used, don't tell a customer that they can completely get rid of it!!! Period!!


Gary Dale,
Landscape America is a good site and offers great advice, but their methods are from the labels of chemical producers and not always from field experiences.
I have a hard time telling people that have Zoysia growing in flower beds and unwanted areas, that killing it out completely is a myth and there will always be room for more applications to be expected.

I tell customers that complete restoration of a lawn is needed from small tractor's to leveling and completely raping of the soil to get the grass out. Bring more top soil in and redo the soil. Most times, it is too expensive for most people to bear. The reality of the problem is too harsh for most to accept. I am not saying it cannot be done, all I am saying is that it will be an expensive venture. If the customer can afford the work, then do it to it!!!!

ted putnam
07-21-2009, 04:29 PM
Hugh,
Being that I am from the South and you from Oregan, do you have extensive experience with Zoysia Japonica Spp?
Spraying this stuff with glyphosate even before scalping--dethatching--aerating this lawn isn't fruitful still. Repeat applications of glyphosate will indeed need to be used..
90% of our customers are growing zoysia turfgrass, and yes, it does go dormant in the winter---------but not completely! Zoysia will be ******ed and stunted by chemical pruning and spraying of round-up but the root systems are so extensive it is a nightmare to elliminate the stuff. I read articles from the U of A about these topics and talk to competitor landscape contractor's whom fight the same issues. We don't grow cool season grasses nor overseed with cool season turf, so it is hard for me to fathom eliminating zoysia and to overseed with cool season grass and not to come back and cause more problems in the future. This custome needs to know the truth!!!!!!
You can go into this lawn mow it down to 1 inch or less depending on what mower you have, use a power rake and get whatever materials out of the soil, rent a disposal bumpster.
All I was trying to say is; once this type of turf is used, don't tell a customer that they can completely get rid of it!!! Period!!


Gary Dale,
Landscape America is a good site and offers great advice, but their methods are from the labels of chemical producers and not always from field experiences.
I have a hard time telling people that have Zoysia growing in flower beds and unwanted areas, that killing it out completely is a myth and there will always be room for more applications to be expected.

I tell customers that complete restoration of a lawn is needed from small tractor's to leveling and completely raping of the soil to get the grass out. Bring more top soil in and redo the soil. Most times, it is too expensive for most people to bear. The reality of the problem is too harsh for most to accept. I am not saying it cannot be done, all I am saying is that it will be an expensive venture. If the customer can afford the work, then do it to it!!!!

Agreed! To do the job right, the work will be both extensive and expensive. Even then, I would not personally guarantee that there woul be no zoysia that would somehow live through the "firestorm". JMO

Think Green
07-22-2009, 12:04 AM
Good Lord---Great to hear from you again TED!!!
Been a while........you must be busy too?

ted putnam
07-22-2009, 12:14 AM
Good Lord---Great to hear from you again TED!!!
Been a while........you must be busy too?

Very busy. Been trying to wrap up my grassy weed apps. 3 times a week apart plus regular production has kept me busier than a cat covering up crap. I can't understand why someone would want to smoke 8k of zoysia. There are many around here who would kill to have a zoysia lawn:confused: I guess some always want what they don't already have...

hughmcjr
07-26-2009, 07:27 PM
Hugh,
Being that I am from the South and you from Oregan, do you have extensive experience with Zoysia Japonica Spp?
Spraying this stuff with glyphosate even before scalping--dethatching--aerating this lawn isn't fruitful still. Repeat applications of glyphosate will indeed need to be used..
90% of our customers are growing zoysia turfgrass, and yes, it does go dormant in the winter---------but not completely! Zoysia will be ******ed and stunted by chemical pruning and spraying of round-up but the root systems are so extensive it is a nightmare to elliminate the stuff. I read articles from the U of A about these topics and talk to competitor landscape contractor's whom fight the same issues. We don't grow cool season grasses nor overseed with cool season turf, so it is hard for me to fathom eliminating zoysia and to overseed with cool season grass and not to come back and cause more problems in the future. This custome needs to know the truth!!!!!!
You can go into this lawn mow it down to 1 inch or less depending on what mower you have, use a power rake and get whatever materials out of the soil, rent a disposal bumpster.
All I was trying to say is; once this type of turf is used, don't tell a customer that they can completely get rid of it!!! Period!!


Gary Dale,
Landscape America is a good site and offers great advice, but their methods are from the labels of chemical producers and not always from field experiences.
I have a hard time telling people that have Zoysia growing in flower beds and unwanted areas, that killing it out completely is a myth and there will always be room for more applications to be expected.

I tell customers that complete restoration of a lawn is needed from small tractor's to leveling and completely raping of the soil to get the grass out. Bring more top soil in and redo the soil. Most times, it is too expensive for most people to bear. The reality of the problem is too harsh for most to accept. I am not saying it cannot be done, all I am saying is that it will be an expensive venture. If the customer can afford the work, then do it to it!!!!

I have had only a couple of customers here that have Zoysia, but I will keep it simple in reply. Ever heard of tall fescue? I would surmise it is as difficult to kill as Zoysia considering it roots to 18 inches. We have it all over in Oregon and it is grown in fields for the rest of the country and world due to the fact Oregon is grass seed capital of the world, :clapping: but in ornamental lawns it is considered a noxious weed. There are turf type varieties grown, such as the seemingly contradictory sounding name of dwarf variety tall fescue.

I don't think the point of the OP or this thread is to discuss if, but when as in I think it is a foregone conclusion that we are talking about the lawn being killed, not if we can kill it. I agree the best way is to completely kill off as we are assuming we got the kill and rototill. New soil or topsoil is not necessary if the existing soil is decent, and in fact in Oregon most often there is no topsoil one can bring in as it is all river sand(they call it loam, but it is useless) with zero nutrients. Our existing clay soils here while having their own issues are best for each area.

So while the OP was asking for criticism and help, I was assuming we are killing off the Zoysia and not if we can get it killed. :)

Think Green
07-26-2009, 07:59 PM
Hugh,
Yes, my new home lawn was planted with Tall Fescue and Bermuda seed at one time--apparently!!!! The stuff is pretty nasty and is a nuissance also for a warm season lawn, however, the stuff stays green during increment warm weather. Theexcessive heat here pretty much nukes the stuff down a little but as soon as the temps decline, the fescue comes out with a fury again.
I didn't intend to attack your great home state of Oregon as it is your home and that is admirable. I understand that different weather conditions of other state may or may not allow easier control or complete kill of a certain species of turfgrass. Down South, Zoysia grows within 3-4 inches of the soil because of our pedocal soils and the clays are soo hard....................!!
Landscapers have spent countless hours on machines to remove the quite well liked turf, only to find that the stuff will return just as honeysuckle..and privet!!!

Zoysia can be killed, it will take some time and several return visits...........this requires the landscaper to return and it may not be in his or her appraisal to figure in those hidden costs. The customer has to be told upfront.... That is all I was getting at!!

No harm done.

hughmcjr
07-26-2009, 09:02 PM
:) I have tall fescue on my lawn, mainly TF with some bent and other weed grasses and TF stays green all summer as it has amazing drought tolerance.

No worries and my state as great as it is, isn't my original home, NY is, but been here 20 years and it is a great place to live. :) :waving:

By the way, it is 95 here now, and going to be 100 tomorrow and low 100's next few days. Humidity will be low and that is one thing I really don't miss about NY. Humidity gets to like 10-15% on some days. FOr a very rainy place for 7 months we then go to extreme dry for at least 2-3 months. It is like the business at times, you know, all or nothing. Ha ha.!!