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JimLewis
07-22-2009, 05:01 PM
You guys ever used these things??? We picked some up today for a lighting job we were doing. We had to join together like 8 fixtures onto 1 hub today and it's always difficult to fit all that into a standard wire connector. So we found these at the local Horizon distributor. They're pretty slick! About twice the size of a regular Large wire connector. REALLY big. Able to fit a lot of wires into one connector. I like it!

They don't look so big in the photos on their website (below). But they are very big in person. Cool stuff!

http://www.blazingproducts.com/products/connectors/LV9/joiner.html






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JoeyD
07-22-2009, 05:07 PM
Check these out Jim!!


http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=283556

Pro-Scapes
07-22-2009, 05:55 PM
I got a bag of the blazing ones here. Isnt it that connector where you twist the wires up then snap it into a holder then into the grease tube ? I preffer something more substantial than a twist connection. Ace connectors or soldered. The large ace connectors (I get them from Mike Gambino) would easily hold 8 fixtures but in a scenario where I had a 10ga and 8 16ga wires I would solder it.

JoeyD
07-22-2009, 06:00 PM
Check out out Intelli Connect billy. I had 7 or 8 16ga wires in one hole and the single 12ga homerun in the other. It would easily hold more and or bigger wire easily. Pretty sweet connection.

Pro-Scapes
07-22-2009, 11:41 PM
Im not too keen on the side by side idea. I know it would work well for a hub scenario since you would have all the wires coming up out of the ground but its rare I use a hub anymore. The inline connections work well for T's since you can keep the main line moving in the direction you want it to easily not to mention the inline is perfect for in trees and stuctures.

JoeyD
07-23-2009, 10:28 AM
Not trying to convinc you or be an a$$........? I understand your point for an inline splice but the SXS connection actually makes things pretty cool, especially for seperating the home run wire or the inline fuse. I was not to hot about our Intelli0Connect when we got it from paige but then I wired one and i must say its pretty awesome!

Alan B
07-23-2009, 04:22 PM
You guys ever used these things??? We picked some up today for a lighting job we were doing. We had to join together like 8 fixtures onto 1 hub today and it's always difficult to fit all that into a standard wire connector. So we found these at the local Horizon distributor. They're pretty slick! About twice the size of a regular Large wire connector. REALLY big. Able to fit a lot of wires into one connector. I like it!

They don't look so big in the photos on their website (below). But they are very big in person. Cool stuff!

http://www.blazingproducts.com/products/connectors/LV9/joiner.html .

Jim,

I love them. In fact they are the only connector we are currently carrying. They have stain relief (wires can't pull out) and a seal that keeps the grease in. To me that makes them a good choice over grease caps. They do the same thing as a 3M direct burial tubes but are quicker, more discreet and cost less... so to me that makes them a good choice over 3M tubes.

For the guys that use grease caps or 3M direct burial tubes I think the Blazing product is a great upgrade.

There are great reasons to use in-line ace connectors, buchanans, hub connectors like the Paige Connector and Uniques hex fittings, and soldering, (arguably superior)... but i think the Blazing LV9500 is an excellent dbr connection for the masses/standard use connections. Especially if the alternative is not doing one of these labor intensive/high end/specialty splices.

Sincerely,

Alan

Pro-Scapes
07-24-2009, 08:03 AM
Im going to be blunt on this. If all you are doing is twisting up some wires and just snapping them into a tube you are looking for the easy way out. If you are building your systems to last you need a mechanical connection of some sort. Im not saying it cant make a good connection that will last for some time I am saying there is some room for error or room for a poor connection.

I would definatly use the blazing in conjuntion with a crimp or a soldered joint but I wouldnt just twist them up and snap them in to a thin plastic tube.

David Gretzmier
07-24-2009, 03:19 PM
I guess I have the same success story James has on his LED's. I have done probably well over 5000 lamps over a period of almost 15 years now, and I have had to redo exactly no grease wire nut connections. Including irrigation grease wire nuts, you could probably up that to closer to 12000 connections. no failure.

JimLewis
07-24-2009, 04:21 PM
I'd love to be able to take the time to solder in each connection and to teach and train all my workers how to do that properly. But the reality is we don't have that kind of time. It's very quick and easy to twist wires together and place them inside a grease cap. And the failure rate doing it that was is so low it hasn't ever been a problem at all.

We all have different business models. And what works for some doesn't always work for the other. For some of you guys, you're doing high-dollar, big lighting installations for million dollar homes. You're typical client doesn't care nearly as much about price and how much labor it takes. They just want the results and they know you're reputation for doing it right and they can afford to have you take your time.

Then there are those of us whose clients can KIND OF afford outdoor lighting. That's me. Most of our clients are in fairly nice homes ($350K-$800K homes on a 10K lot) but not big million dollar 1 acre properties. And most of our clients, when they think of outoor lighting - are thinking of the little $200-$400 kits you buy at Costco or Malibu from Home Depot. They might like what they saw us do down the street at a neighbor's home but they have no clue that cost that person $3500.00.

So what I am saying is; in our main market - to keep the prices as affordable as possible - we have to get a lighting job done fairly quickly. We take time and do good work. But if we took a little more time to solder joints, use heat-shrinks, bury the wire in conduit 12" deep, etc. our labor would make the job cost so much that nobody would hire us to do lighting. As it is, because of the brand we use, and because of our company overhead, etc. I am already priced a little higher than most when it comes to lighting. I know where most people's breaking points are for lighting and we're pretty much straddling that line already.

Pro-Scapes
07-24-2009, 04:22 PM
Dryconns can work if done right. I have dug up several that were fine several years later. I also have probably 100 hubs out there that are done in the cast method with the solder pot and dryconns. I think CAST has hands down the best amnufacture splice method out there if you are going to run hubs.

It does seem to me the hubs used to go in quicker than the T's do but with the T I can have better control over my wire routing

David Gretzmier
07-26-2009, 02:30 AM
In my opinion, I am already doing this as fast and as cheap as I can to deliver a quality product and installation to the customer that will last 20 years plus. and I get price resistance from folks who live in 2 million dollar homes, as well as 350,000 homes. spending more money on more expensive fixtures, wire, trans, connections only makes things worse. The truth is when people want great lighting, they will pay for it.

I know what it costs me to live, and I know what all my labor and materials cost, and the bottom line is I am at the bottom dollar, and this is a really tough gig to keep steady work coming in just in bids, even if you have a successful business already.

kaferhaus
08-04-2009, 08:12 AM
So what I am saying is; in our main market - to keep the prices as affordable as possible - we have to get a lighting job done fairly quickly. We take time and do good work. But if we took a little more time to solder joints, use heat-shrinks, bury the wire in conduit 12" deep, etc. our labor would make the job cost so much that nobody would hire us to do lighting. As it is, because of the brand we use, and because of our company overhead, etc. I am already priced a little higher than most when it comes to lighting. I know where most people's breaking points are for lighting and we're pretty much straddling that line already

Same here Jim.... there's a fine line dollar wise on getting the job or not and still being able to make a reasonable profit on most of these jobs.

Our warranty calls are nearly zero.... and we've done the "conduit, soldered connections, watertight junction boxes...etc" WHEN the money was there to do it. Those jobs are rare here. What I usually do is offer them 3 options but when I tell them the "fixture" warranty is the same for all three the only warranty extention they get is on the installation.... you guess which one they chosse most often.

The "big, cost is of little importance jobs" are almost always local government jobs.... the "specs" require it and after all they're spending our money, not theirs.

We've done a few "corporate headquarters" installs that were similar but again the specs called for it.

There are no "local" code issues here on LV installations.

Pro-Scapes
08-04-2009, 11:32 AM
I would lose a buck a connection and solder before I would use a twist and snap device. 1 call back and your savings are blown let alone what it does to your reputation. If you are going to loose a job over a few bucks a connection your not presenting it right to begin with.

bx24
08-04-2009, 04:02 PM
I would lose a buck a connection and solder before I would use a twist and snap device. 1 call back and your savings are blown let alone what it does to your reputation. If you are going to loose a job over a few bucks a connection your not presenting it right to begin with.


I have 3 bags of them and tried them twice...I just use silicone and normal wire nuts....Hence, I do not like them for res jobs.

David Gretzmier
08-05-2009, 08:27 PM
All I know is, the grease wire nut has been around a LONG time. I've undone grease nut connections on some irrigations systems with brass valves and the really old timey multi dial rain bird controller. easily 25 years old plus. no corrosion. and still working. the oldest ace's Ive found are around 12-15 years old, and typcially 10-20 percent are corroded to pieces because of improper sealing methods on the heat shrink tubing. I'll give you the pull out argument, but grease nuts are the only thing out there that I feel comfortable with employees using and still expect my systems to last 20 years.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
08-07-2009, 04:56 AM
I have been using the DryConn's (silicone filled wire nuts) here for 11 years. I would say 90+ Percent of all my connections are made with them. I have never had an issue with them because they are being installed correctly. If you ensure you do not strip too much insulation off the wire, and you ensure that you completely tighten the nut onto the wires, and you ensure you use the right size DryConn for the application you will not have any issues at all.

That being said. Using a 333 (yellow) indoor Marrettes and stuffing some silicone inside is NOT an acceptable substitution. I see this from trunk slammers and 'jack of all trades' types far too often.

I have also found that the IDEAL silicone filled wire nut is not as user friendly, and much more expensive, then the King Safety DryConn.

As a testament to the DryConn's ability to make a dry and strong connection; a couple of weeks ago I was doing some renovations to a system I installed 10 years ago. I took the time to open up some of the original DryConn connections I made and found the copper to be clean / oxidation free. Works for me!

David Gretzmier
08-07-2009, 04:20 PM
I'll agree with the ideal/king safety nuts. I have used the safety ones for small wires in a pinch, but I prefer drycons. drycons seem to have way more grease in them, and I don't think the yellow safeties are rated for burial. they are fine in tree connections and on surface mounted stuff like deck lights and such. for burial, I go drycon.

Pro-Scapes
08-07-2009, 06:32 PM
I think I have installed 1 pr of dryconns without soldering the connection first. This was on the back side of an arbor in a J box.

I have hundreds of soldered and dryconned connections out there with no failures. I actually dug up a failed buchanan crimp today from another installer in my area.

klkanders
08-07-2009, 11:06 PM
I actually dug up a failed buchanan crimp today from another installer in my area.

What failed Billy? Not crimped properly?

Keith

Alan B
08-08-2009, 11:26 PM
I don't doubt DryCons can be good. I have done far fewer connections than any of you and I have seen several drycon's where the cap fell off (no strain relief). I also found it was tough to get a real tight grip with the cap due to the grease acting as a lubricant. Are the Dry Con guys saying you don't have that problem?

If that is correct, I will start carrying DryCons (maybe I was doing a poor job when I used them). I found the Blazing DBRs to be essentially the same thing as Dry Cons except they had strain relief and a double Oring sealed cap that locked the cap on and kept the grease in. From my experience of using the Blazing, I found it more secure, tighter and impossible to break, loosen or fall off. If you really disagree that it is no better than a Dry Con, I will start to carry drycons.

Sincerely,

Alan

David Gretzmier
08-09-2009, 05:57 AM
Maybe I misunderstand, but the drycon/Kings I use are essentailly a wirenut, with either white or clear grease in them. they also have a starlike bottom affixed to the wirenut. I've never had the cap come off from strain, typically if you pull hard enough the wire comes out, but I have tried to unscrew a connection and had the inner metal cone come out by virtue of me unscrewing it. I pay about 30-35 cents each for the larger king's ( can do 3-4 12's or 3 10's max, 8's are the next size up ) by ordering the 100 packs of the higher volatage blue and reds at Lowe's, If you can meet or beat that price, I'll buy.