Case skid steers/CTL's

[rangerdanger]

Hey guys, we're curious to see how Case skid steers/CTL's rank next to other OEM's. We're looking into possibly buying one(since they have the best dealer support around here) and we'd like to see how they compare to others. We're looking into the 440 size machine, either the skid steer or CTL.

Thanks!

[WillieWonka1850]

Hey guys, we're curious to see how Case skid steers/CTL's rank next to other OEM's. We're looking into possibly buying one(since they have the best dealer support around here) and we'd like to see how they compare to others. We're looking into the 440 size machine, either the skid steer or CTL.

Thanks!
Case makes some of the best skid steers (or used to)
We love our 1845C. 3,600 Hours and still going strong! (3,600 hours is nothing on the Cummins)
They're one of the only brands of Skid Steer to use the Cummins Diesel (Gehl and Mustang are the other 2)
Case is just as good or sometimes better than Bobcat or Caterpillar.

As for a 440. Ask Shane (ksss). He has a Wheeled 440 with the VTS tracks.
I've looked at the 440CT before, very nice little machine.

[Skidsteerman]

Fiat.... eeer.... ~ Case has lost several things over time around here.

1: new models reliability is poor at best - this from talking to quite a few local contractors - must be true because even the local Case stealership promotes Takeuchi's WAY over their own brand. What does that tell you.

2: Resale value on Case compact equipment is about equal to Thomas, Daewoo, Mustang, Gehl and all the other no name brands out there.

Sorry Case people but these things ring true like it or not. Case has lost most if not almost all market share around here. Very seldom do I see a new unit and only compete against them pimping the Take's - never Case.

[jefftb]

Let's take a look at some data available from Iron Planet rather than toss out statements about poor resale value.

I took the brands listed in the above statement over to IP and looked at bid prices over the last 180 days.

180 days, CASE had 38 units sold, Gehl had 11 units, Mustang 16 units, Daewoo had 1, Thomas had 2.

For the units sold over the 180 days here's the average prices:

CASE: $9782.00
Gehl: $12,522.00
Mustang: $9,531.00
Daewoo: $7,000
Thomas: $4,850.00

The interesting thing is that Gehl had no units sold at auction that were older than 2003, one was 2003 and the other was undisclosed, all of the thomas units were older than that, and the Daewoo had a 2005. Case had units going back to 1994. So let's exclude anything older than 2005 just to see what current machine prices are averaging. I'm leaving out Daewoo and Thomas since the data would not be valid.

Case:$14,694.00 for 18 units.
Gehl: $14,250.00 for 8 units
Mustang: $13,285.00 for 7 units

And just for fun I looked at TAK: $15,281.00 for 16 units

Any of this statistically significant-nope, it could be if I had more time or what the hell, inclination. I did not evaluate variability on the basis of hours on machines, damage etc.

Is it telling-maybe. TAK and CASE outsold the others over 2 to 1 for the period over the last 180 days. Not much variability in the prices for the period.

I could slice/dice this thing 20 different ways on the basis of periods, variability in sell price, hours, etc. but I'm not going to.

If the best dealer in the area is CASE and you like them and you get a good price, and, and, and this-they nearly all make good machines and lemons. Buy the one you like and think will serve you well. Then go use it.

[BIGBEN2004]

Case makes a great wheeled machine but I have heard they had some problems with the CTL's when they came out but maybe now they have fixed any problems. I like the 440CT it is a nice size with allot of power. The 450CT looks strong but has one big draw back and that is the machine is way too wide for all around purposes.

[bobcat_ron]

I'd still take a Takeuchi over a Case anyday, 10x better cab and visibilty.

[ccstrebe]

I'd still take a Takeuchi over a Case anyday, 10x better cab and visibilty.

I'm with you, but I would still take a Cat over a Tak.

[KCfireman]

I'd still take a Takeuchi over a Case anyday, 10x better cab and visibilty.I thought you would take a Tak over anything anyday.

[bobcat_ron]

I thought you would take a Tak over anything anyday.

I'd take a Cat over anything, but a Takeuchi over anything else if the Cat isn't an option.
But I would take a Takeuchi over a Cat if I wasn't such a pussy for creature comforts.

[ksss]

Fiat.... eeer.... ~ Case has lost several things over time around here.

1: new models reliability is poor at best - this from talking to quite a few local contractors - must be true because even the local Case stealership promotes Takeuchi's WAY over their own brand. What does that tell you.

2: Resale value on Case compact equipment is about equal to Thomas, Daewoo, Mustang, Gehl and all the other no name brands out there.

Sorry Case people but these things ring true like it or not. Case has lost most if not almost all market share around here. Very seldom do I see a new unit and only compete against them pimping the Take's - never Case.


Its official. Your an idiot.:hammerhead: Never since my joining in 03 can I recall having to be this blunt, I try at least to be somewhat more diplomatic, unfortunately I have neither the time nor the inclination to make right this statement.

[stuvecorp]

Hey guys, we're curious to see how Case skid steers/CTL's rank next to other OEM's. We're looking into possibly buying one(since they have the best dealer support around here) and we'd like to see how they compare to others. We're looking into the 440 size machine, either the skid steer or CTL.

Thanks!

I ran a 440 and now a 70xt, been great. You can't go wrong with the 440, try to get a Series 3 if possible.

[ksss]

I ran a 440 and now a 70xt, been great. You can't go wrong with the 440, try to get a Series 3 if possible.


Getting back to the task at hand. The 440 is really a great machine. Mine has been very reliable and is one of my all time favorite machines, and I have had a lot of them. I have run the 440 CT and its very powerful. The wheeled machines are too of course but the tracks really put the power to the ground.

[Digdeep]

Fiat.... eeer.... ~ Case has lost several things over time around here.

1: new models reliability is poor at best - this from talking to quite a few local contractors - must be true because even the local Case stealership promotes Takeuchi's WAY over their own brand. What does that tell you.

2: Resale value on Case compact equipment is about equal to Thomas, Daewoo, Mustang, Gehl and all the other no name brands out there.

Sorry Case people but these things ring true like it or not. Case has lost most if not almost all market share around here. Very seldom do I see a new unit and only compete against them pimping the Take's - never Case.

Just to throw a monkey wrench into the conversation I called my friend down at Bobcat of St. Louis in Valley Park (just a small dealer :weightlifter:) to inquire about market shares. The comment that "Case has lost most if not almost all market share" seemed extreme and unsupported due to Case's long standing position in the SSL market. So before I repeat his market share data for MO (I can get St. Louis if needed) I want to qualify my position of not being a big Case fan, although I do think their SSLs are pretty good (don't care much for their CTLs).

First off, Case's market share in MO surpasses their national market share numbers. For that matter, so does JD's. It is true that Case has slid nationally, but they seem to be holding their own in your territory skidsteerman. These numbers were for 2008 (I can get more recent but these numbers still hold pretty true). State of Missouri:

Bobcat- 45%
Deere- 13%
Case- 13%
CAT- 12%
NH- 10%
Gehl- 3%
I have cut off decimal places and the remaining OEMs make up the rest of the roughly 4%.

Final verdict: the announcement of Case's demise in MO is premature:clapping:

[Skidsteerman]

Just to throw a monkey wrench into the conversation I called my friend down at Bobcat of St. Louis in Valley Park (just a small dealer :weightlifter:) to inquire about market shares. The comment that "Case has lost most if not almost all market share" seemed extreme and unsupported due to Case's long standing position in the SSL market. So before I repeat his market share data for MO (I can get St. Louis if needed) I want to qualify my position of not being a big Case fan, although I do think their SSLs are pretty good (don't care much for their CTLs).

First off, Case's market share in MO surpasses their national market share numbers. For that matter, so does JD's. It is true that Case has slid nationally, but they seem to be holding their own in your territory skidsteerman. These numbers were for 2008 (I can get more recent but these numbers still hold pretty true). State of Missouri:

Bobcat- 45%
Deere- 13%
Case- 13%
CAT- 12%
NH- 10%
Gehl- 3%
I have cut off decimal places and the remaining OEMs make up the rest of the roughly 4%.

Final verdict: the announcement of Case's demise in MO is premature:clapping:

Case has their strong areas in MO, I wasn't implying anything past the St Louis metro area and surrounding counties. I never compete against Case anymore, just the dealership pimping Take's. CTL's are pretty big movers in our area compared to ssdlers - or have been for about the last three or so years now.

Resale value per my opinion is based solely on our experience with the brand trade ins (I should have made that point) most if not all we ended up selling out at a loss just to rid of them and I'm sure this will weigh in the next time one comes up for appraisal unless we find a buyer at the other end.

Last Case we traded in was a fully loaded 90 hour 445CT (I believe this was the model - large chassis radial lift) still with 8 months warranty still left on it. Could NOT sell it for 8~10K under said market value. Not new retail but used wholesale - could not move it.

Sold it for well under what we had in it to rid of it - even die hard Case nuts would pass on it:confused: and after the loss we took on the four Case units before it was enough for us to decide there needed to be a reevaluation of Case resale/wholesale values.

Does not matter to me what YOU may think these things bring, facts are facts period.

[Skidsteerman]

Its official. Your an idiot.:hammerhead: Never since my joining in 03 can I recall having to be this blunt, I try at least to be somewhat more diplomatic, unfortunately I have neither the time nor the inclination to make right this statement.

I didn't attack you, I just made a ture statements about Fiat... eeer... Case that you got all e-butthurt over. What ever floats your boat.

[stuvecorp]

Case has their strong areas in MO, I wasn't implying anything past the St Louis metro area and surrounding counties. I never compete against Case anymore, just the dealership pimping Take's. CTL's are pretty big movers in our area compared to ssdlers - or have been for about the last three or so years now.

Resale value per my opinion is based solely on our experience with the brand trade ins (I should have made that point) most if not all we ended up selling out at a loss just to rid of them and I'm sure this will weigh in the next time one comes up for appraisal unless we find a buyer at the other end.

Last Case we traded in was a fully loaded 90 hour 445CT (I believe this was the model - large chassis radial lift) still with 8 months warranty still left on it. Could NOT sell it for 8~10K under said market value. Not new retail but used wholesale - could not move it.

Sold it for well under what we had in it to rid of it - even die hard Case nuts would pass on it:confused: and after the loss we took on the four Case units before it was enough for us to decide there needed to be a reevaluation of Case resale/wholesale values.

Does not matter to me what YOU may think these things bring, facts are facts period.

Next time you get a 440 or 465 you want to give away, call me.:)

[ksss]

I didn't attack you, I just made a ture statements about Fiat... eeer... Case that you got all e-butthurt over. What ever floats your boat.



Listen, look back on the BS you spew. You will see a common thread emerge.

You must be one heck of a salesman.

Now that you tell more of the story, you cite your entire opinion on one machines inability to resell? If you want want JD skid steer horror stories I have more than a few for you.

Feel free to support any of your BS with some facts. I will be waiting.

Till then I will continue to run my inferior CASE products.

As far as the personal attacks, lay out a solid case of why CASE has poor resale and poor reliability and we will debate the facts of your information. Spew BS and expect it to be taken as fact? Your on the wrong forum. Sorry but survey says "Your an idiot."

[WillieWonka1850]

Now you've done it Skidsteerman...
You've angered Shane Kaiser!! :laugh: :laugh:

[ksss]

Now you've done it Skidsteerman...
You've angered Shane Kaiser!! :laugh: :laugh:



Your hair makes me even more angry.:nono::waving:

[WillieWonka1850]

STOP RAGGING ON MY HAIR!!!! :angry:

At least I have hair :laugh: :laugh:

(Predicted response: "Too much hair" or something like that)

[Junior M]

Your hair makes me even more angry.:nono::waving:
Baldy.. :p :laugh: :waving:

[WillieWonka1850]

Baldy.. :p :laugh: :waving:

THANK YOU!! :laugh: :dancing:

[ksss]

STOP RAGGING ON MY HAIR!!!! :angry:

At least I have hair :laugh: :laugh:

(Predicted response: "Too much hair" or something like that)


I can have hair, I just chose to look properly groomed.:clapping: Which means a Marine reg. hair cut. If I wanted to look like an 80's hair band throw back I would, however I get nauseous when my hair touches my ears.

[WillieWonka1850]

Ok you can have your hair, I can have my hair. I just look better with long hair.
I get nauseous when I have no hair.

Now back to previously scheduled equipment discussions ;)

[RockSet N' Grade]

Wait till you kids get to be my age.......you will be happy to have any hair at all on your head! AND, you will be surprised at all the other unexpected places it excels in growing....

[Digdeep]

Case has their strong areas in MO, I wasn't implying anything past the St Louis metro area and surrounding counties. I never compete against Case anymore, just the dealership pimping Take's. CTL's are pretty big movers in our area compared to ssdlers - or have been for about the last three or so years now.

The MO side or the IL side? It seems that Case is holding their own in both SSLs and CTLs on the MO side in these counties- Franklin, Jefferson, Lincoln, St. Charles, St. Francois, St. Louis and Warren.

SSL
Bobcat-45%
Deere- 13.5%
Case- 13.1%
CAT- 12%
NH- 10%

CTL
Bobcat- 50%
Deere- 11.4%
Takeuchi- 9%
Case- 8.8%
CAT- 8.5%

I notice a pretty even split between Takeuchi and Case. Luby must be “pimping” both brands pretty evenly.

Case actually has 3% more CTL market share than Deere on the IL side of St. Louis in these counties- Jersey, Madison, St. Claire, Monroe, and Clinton.

You are are correct in one thing by saying that CTLs are ‘pretty big movers” in your area compared to SSLs- my buddy at the Bobcat dealership says that CTLs make up a little over 50% of the market.

I think that everybody really does like your enthusiasm, but I think that your penchant for throwing out blanket statements without being able to back them up kind of puts everyone off a bit. The “Devil is in the details”.

My personal opinion is that both Case and NH are in caught in the middle because of the whole "Fiat buying Chrysler thing", but I still think both make very solid equipment overall- even though they're not my favorite. Fiat just announced a restructuring of the Case and NH brands by putting a Case guy in charge of both strategies for branding and operations. Who knows how well Case can market the NH and Kobelco brands, but I guess we'll find out over the next year or two.

[Digdeep]

Wait till you kids get to be my age.......you will be happy to have any hair at all on your head! AND, you will be surprised at all the other unexpected places it excels in growing....

Very true...once it stopped growing on my head it started growing in my ears:cry:

[Skidsteerman]

The MO side or the IL side? It seems that Case is holding their own in both SSLs and CTLs on the MO side in these counties- Franklin, Jefferson, Lincoln, St. Charles, St. Francois, St. Louis and Warren.

SSL
Bobcat-45%
Deere- 13.5%
Case- 13.1%
CAT- 12%
NH- 10%

CTL
Bobcat- 50%
Deere- 11.4%
Takeuchi- 9%
Case- 8.8%
CAT- 8.5%

I notice a pretty even split between Takeuchi and Case. Luby must be “pimping” both brands pretty evenly.

Case actually has 3% more CTL market share than Deere on the IL side of St. Louis in these counties- Jersey, Madison, St. Claire, Monroe, and Clinton.

You are are correct in one thing by saying that CTLs are ‘pretty big movers” in your area compared to SSLs- my buddy at the Bobcat dealership says that CTLs make up a little over 50% of the market.

I think that everybody really does like your enthusiasm, but I think that your penchant for throwing out blanket statements without being able to back them up kind of puts everyone off a bit. The “Devil is in the details”.

My personal opinion is that both Case and NH are in caught in the middle because of the whole "Fiat buying Chrysler thing", but I still think both make very solid equipment overall- even though they're not my favorite. Fiat just announced a restructuring of the Case and NH brands by putting a Case guy in charge of both strategies for branding and operations. Who knows how well Case can market the NH and Kobelco brands, but I guess we'll find out over the next year or two.

Years back Case owned better market share in this area but that has slipped in the last several years due to various reasons. I don't know about IL market share as I don't deal over there and it does not have any impact on this side of the river.

NH used to own a large part of the market share in this area as well (I'm not talking about the entire state of Missouri) I'm not throwing out fabricated statements like some people would like to think on this site (ksss get over yourself already) I'm not talking about Case nation wide, I'm talking bout this local area. Allot of reasons Luby may have weaker market share for Case is due to them promoting a different product - seems to be an injustice to Fiat but that's their beef not mine.

Resale values on Case - what more facts do you want then what I already explained? It was unexpected for us and we lost our ass on quite a few Case trade ins - reason enough for ya? We put fair market values in them when traded in but they apparently don't hold it very well. These units were also listed on the interweb so they are advertised nation wide as well. This leaves me to believe they are not hold their value everywhere. Sad thing is, this was a few years back when the industry was humping.

Moot point really because your going to believe whatever you want no matter what I type out here.

PS: Arguing with me on the Internet is like winning the special olympics, it really doesn't matter does it...

[Skidsteerman]

Very true...once it stopped growing on my head it started growing in my ears:cry:

Same thing here and my eye brows are growing like weeds too:confused:

[Digdeep]

NH used to own a large part of the market share in this area as well (I'm not talking about the entire state of Missouri) I'm not throwing out fabricated statements like some people would like to think on this site (ksss get over yourself already) I'm not talking about Case nation wide, I'm talking bout this local area. Allot of reasons Luby may have weaker market share for Case is due to them promoting a different product - seems to be an injustice to Fiat but that's their beef not mine.

Moot point really because your going to believe whatever you want no matter what I type out here.

PS: Arguing with me on the Internet is like winning the special olympics, it really doesn't matter does it...

The numbers I gave you are from the counties directly in your area and they indicate that Case SSLs and CTLs are around in as great or near the same numbers as your Deere machines. Your initial statement was, "Very seldom do I see a new unit and only compete against them pimping the Take's - never Case."

Facts are facts and opinions are opinions. People will believe facts if they make sense, some will believe opinions if they have merit. Most will not believe blanket statements.

I agree with you :drinkup: on a dealer selling two brands. It does take focus away. Takeuchi and Case CTLs have much cross over. Bobcat of St. Louis used to carry the Takeuchi line if I'm not mistaken.

[Skidsteerman]

The numbers I gave you are from the counties directly in your area and they indicate that Case SSLs and CTLs are around in as great or near the same numbers as your Deere machines. Your initial statement was, "Very seldom do I see a new unit and only compete against them pimping the Take's - never Case."

Facts are facts and opinions are opinions. People will believe facts if they make sense, some will believe opinions if they have merit. Most will not believe blanket statements.

I agree with you :drinkup: on a dealer selling two brands. It does take focus away. Takeuchi and Case CTLs have much cross over. Bobcat of St. Louis used to carry the Takeuchi line if I'm not mistaken.

Case maybe stronger in St Charles Co then they are south which is primarily the area I'm in. I compete against a Case brand units about once or maybe twice a year at best. If you broke it down to counties, I'm sure that would tell a different story. Deere is weak in St Charles county due to poor coverage by previous sales reps - we think we have this rectified today with a hungry aggressive rep. Been with us for around a month and has already moved several pieces of equipment in that area.

Luby is bound to lose more market share in St Charles county as they have just closed their store in that area. Customers like convenience and this will make a difference I'm sure. Fabick (Cat dealership) also closed their St Charles county location.

The St Louis area is going through changes right now (as well as most I assume) and it will be interesting to see how things go the next couple years. Deere is going to release a redesigned 300 series (The "D" Series) later this year, these changes and improvements will no doubt give the competition a run for the money.

Late August early Sept I may be able to post up some info on them but no can do currently.

IMO Deere is the underdog in the sslder business but slowly they are growing in the market as is Cat and it will be interesting to see where things are in several years from now.

[jefftb]

PS: Arguing with me on the Internet is like winning the special olympics, it really doesn't matter does it...

Nice.

Something tells me that if you entered the special olympics, and won, it would be special; I am sure there are quite a few special olympiads more advanced than you.

Statements like this do not belong here or anywhere for that matter about individuals with true disabilities. I know quite a few wonderful people with special needs and your statements just reinforce the complete assinine comments that typically effuse from your keyboard.

Probably a few members here in the Heavy Equipment section know or are related to individuals with disabilities as well.

(And yeah for the rest of you that see it, I know you spell asinine with one "s" but in this case it deserved two)

[Digdeep]

Nice.

Something tells me that if you entered the special olympics, and won, it would be special; I am sure there are quite a few special olympiads more advanced than you.

Statements like this do not belong here or anywhere for that matter about individuals with true disabilities. I know quite a few wonderful people with special needs and your statements just reinforce the complete assinine comments that typically effuse from your keyboard.

Probably a few members here in the Heavy Equipment section know or are related to individuals with disabilities as well.

(And yeah for the rest of you that see it, I know you spell asinine with one "s" but in this case it deserved two)

I avoided saying the same thing you just said when I responded because I didn't think I would be able to word it as eloquently. As the Warden (Strother Martin) in Cool Hand Luke once said, " Some men you just can't reach."

[Total Earthworks]

I almost bought a 2nd hand Case 60XT from a dealer. They had not removed the previous owners decals from it so I gave him a call. The machine was only 2 years old and had heaps of warranty left however he warned me off the machine saying that he had had all the pumps replaced under warranty, some more than once and had found other probles. Said he had been a Case fan for years but had had a bad experience with reliability with two XT series and had decided to change to Toyota instead.

I have heard a couple of complaints about the XT series, were there any significant reliability issues particularly with pumps and pilot motors?

It was a pitty because I quite like the look of the case, but on reflection I think they are a little narrow and short in the wheel base for the majority of the work I do. I find the wide and long stance of my Komatsu to be really good for steep country work and harley rake work.

I have since heard that these reliability issues were fixed when they killed of the XT series.

Any comments?

[bobcat_ron]

I almost bought a 2nd hand Case 60XT from a dealer. They had not removed the previous owners decals from it so I gave him a call. The machine was only 2 years old and had heaps of warranty left however he warned me off the machine saying that he had had all the pumps replaced under warranty, some more than once and had found other probles. Said he had been a Case fan for years but had had a bad experience with reliability with two XT series and had decided to change to Toyota instead.

I have heard a couple of complaints about the XT series, were there any significant reliability issues particularly with pumps and pilot motors?

It was a pitty because I quite like the look of the case, but on reflection I think they are a little narrow and short in the wheel base for the majority of the work I do. I find the wide and long stance of my Komatsu to be really good for steep country work and harley rake work.

I have since heard that these reliability issues were fixed when they killed of the XT series.

Any comments?


Here's a good comment:

Can't
Afford
Something
Else

[Votum Gardens LLC]

(And yeah for the rest of you that see it, I know you spell asinine with one "s" but in this case it deserved two)

Actually in this instance I think you spelled it correctly.

[ksss]

Here's a good comment:

Can't
Afford
Something
Else



MUCH BETTER TO

Call
Another
Technician

[WillieWonka1850]

MUCH BETTER TO

Call
Another
Technician
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: