POS CC M48 Tank- Rant

[dbvolfan1]

So with a grand total of 29 hrs on her, my CC M48 Tank has now:

Logged 5 weeks in the shop because the Kawi Engine spit not only smoke but plain old oil out the exhaust before it would suddenly die. Dlr found a leak on the RH side and replaced carb o-rings, head gasket and valve gaskets. Problem solved except.........

While in the shop for 5 weeks I asked the dlr to adjust the deck which was completely out of whack. Within 30 seconds of engaging the blades the belt snapped (@~28 hrs). New belt was then installed by the dealer (I paid for the belt) and everything is checked to make sure nothing is out of whack. This time I am fortunate...I get a whole 1 hr out of her before the belt snaps again!

OK, is it too much to expect a tractor that costs this much to at least outshine a Craftsman tractor I had for 6+ yrs with 600+ hrs on it?
Seriously, am I being unrealistic to be upset that this thing is on its THIRD belt in less than 30 hrs!

Sorry for the rant but it's been a long week and this was the final straw.

[Dstosh]

Does your engine to deck belt have two tensioner pullys on it? If so there are two eye bolts on two a-arms on the front of the deck that hold the deck to the mower. Make the eye bolts longer to bring the deck farther back(toward the rear of the mower). My Lesco (same thing) was blowing through e to d belts,this has drastically reduced that. Now we only go through one per season or so. I was told that this is the same belt as the older models with only one pully. If you add another pully, somethings gotta give.

[dbvolfan1]

Thanks Ds. I'll look at that today. Everything appears to be fine...no wobble or free play in the pulleys. The pulleys and everything look good as new, well, because they are! Blades turn freely. Very frustrating is all I can say.

When shopping for a Tank make sure you ask the dealer how many BELTS it uses per hour, not how many acres it mows per hour! :)

If this keeps up, look for a low hrs CC-M48 Tank to be listed on craigslist in the very near future.

[Restrorob]

At what RPM (throttle position) are you engaging the deck at ?

[dbvolfan1]

Full throttle per the instruction on page 15. Full throttle is ~3650 rpm's.
I wondered about this and tried engaging at a little under 3k once and got a lot of shudder so I turned the PTO off and went back to full speed before engaging.

[Restrorob]

As you are finding out a full speed engagement is what's snatching the belts in half.

I have had many customers with the same problem (we were a MTD Pro/Cub dealer), By engaging between the half to three quarter position of the throttle control it does cause a little belt slap but reduces the sudden belt breaking snatch due to such a long belt.

Once I started schooling new customers of this the belt snapping ceased, I have seen no issues with this little belt slap on engagement.


Good Luck

[dbvolfan1]

Thanks for the info!
I'll check that out. I had no issues with the belt until 28 hrs following the deck adjustment. Since then I have gone through 2 belts in just over an hour.
I'll replace this again and give it a try at 75% throttle as well.

One other thought.....I engaged the blades while I had the mower deck lifted and went ~75' feet before realizing the mistake. Would that have created a strange twist in the belt that may have caused an issue?

[Envy Lawn Service]

Thanks for the info!
I'll check that out. I had no issues with the belt until 28 hrs following the deck adjustment. Since then I have gone through 2 belts in just over an hour.
I'll replace this again and give it a try at 75% throttle as well.

One other thought.....I engaged the blades while I had the mower deck lifted and went ~75' feet before realizing the mistake. Would that have created a strange twist in the belt that may have caused an issue?

Yes, it's you or an adjustment...

Your belt is jumping off the tensioner pulley... the one on the long arm.

Possible problems can be...
Deck position front-to-rear
Position of tensioner pully on arm (make sure it's in proper hole for your cut)
Mis-routing of the belt in the first place.
Belt slipping off tensioner and mis-routing itself when you remove the left pulley cover for cleaning/grease.

I learned this lesson on my very first pass with my very first one. The deck was slowing down in the heavy growth but the engine was not. The belt was on the wrong side of the tensioner pulley... which still provides enough bite to run the deck until the going gets tougher.

Knowing this also landed me my other ZTwo with a couple hours at a good deal.

[dbvolfan1]

Yeah, turned out it was the deck adjustment. They had inserted an extra washer in one of the pulleys that resulted in it being misaligned.
They removed it and it now has 30+ trouble free hours since then. The only bad thing was that the washer obviously came from somewhere and they arent sure so it sits in my cupholder until something else disintegrates because it is missing. :)

[Tharrell]

Wow, going through belts like that can be frustrating. I have a 60" Lesco Z2, don't you love the easy belt swap though? I wish my 52" Lesco wb was that easy. Tony

[dbvolfan1]

So the old Tank started dying on me and shooting flames out the tailpipe about a month ago (had a neighbor come across the street to tell me my tractor was on fire, nice....)
Took it to another delaer who seemed to care a little more about the soot marks on the bottom of my fuel tanks.
I find out today that CC authorized replacing the carbs, fuel lines, gas tanks and while they were at it they checked the tracking and discovered that the hydraulic pump was shot so CC authorized replacing that as well. And it only has 48 hrs on it. Geez, I hope this just bad luck and it's all behind me. Delaer said something about them replacing the fuel pump under warranty as well but I am not sure what he is referring to there.
Anyway, I hope this is it for a while but at least I found a good dealer who listens and takes the time to look into stuff.

[Gunnels Grounds & More]

When I first bought my Enforcer 48 it had A few bugs also, Cub cadet was very good for warranty issues but know all has been fixed things are well. Good luck with your tank, good dealers and the service is what makes or sometimes breaks a product unfortunately.

[Envy Lawn Service]

So the old Tank started dying on me and shooting flames out the tailpipe about a month ago (had a neighbor come across the street to tell me my tractor was on fire, nice....)
Took it to another delaer who seemed to care a little more about the soot marks on the bottom of my fuel tanks.
I find out today that CC authorized replacing the carbs, fuel lines, gas tanks and while they were at it they checked the tracking and discovered that the hydraulic pump was shot so CC authorized replacing that as well. And it only has 48 hrs on it. Geez, I hope this just bad luck and it's all behind me. Delaer said something about them replacing the fuel pump under warranty as well but I am not sure what he is referring to there.
Anyway, I hope this is it for a while but at least I found a good dealer who listens and takes the time to look into stuff.

Hate to hear you are having issues.
What model year is this one you are referring to brother?

Does it look like this one?

http://www.cubcadet.com/wcpics/CubCadet/products/53AI8CT2050_product_detail.jpg

"Where" was the fire?

I have a really hard time understanding what might have happened.
I could see a muffler flood fire from a bad fuel pump.
Or from bad tank caps and parking in the sun with a tank valve open.
Or from a fuel leak from the line or pump.

Not sure what else....


As for the fuel pump, if it's a Kawi it's a round thing mounted to the engine that the fuel line runs to, right before the carb. You can see it in this picture over the left valve cover. You could have gotten ahold of some really bad fuel without knowing... that had a bunch of ethanol that eat the rubber up.

http://images.builderdepot.com/Kawasaki_5/prodimg/FH641V-AS30.jpg

As for the hydro pump... don't sweat it. The hydros are not known for failure. Occasionally though, the pump or wheel motor company will spit out a bad one.... and just so you know, it is VERY COMMON that these bad ones fail EARLY. This always sucks, but it's good at the same time because the bad ones always go out under warranty. Bad components typically fail in the first 100 hours. Good components on a good system like this that is serviced properly last thousands of hours without issue.


So I know it all sucks right now, but try not to get discouraged. It sounds like you found a better servicing dealer. As usual Cub is standing behind their product and honoring their warranty.

I believe everything will be OK... I think you have just had a run of bad luck.

[dbvolfan1]

Thanks for the positive vibes. It's just discouraging to have spent this kind of money to have the engine and belt issues I have seen in under 50 hrs of operation. My experience with the first dealer earlier in the year added fuel to the fire. The new dealer I have since taken it to (Lonnie's Tractor Sales) in Lexington was interested in getting to the bottom of what happend so I'd definitly recommend them and will return to them for future needs.

My Tank is a 2007 bought new in Nov. 2008 with the older Command Cut deck. I hear great things about the Select Cut deck but have been happy with the cut on this one and havent experienced the clumpuing others have.

I havent had a chance to talk to the dealer in great detail just yet since I pick it up today. He mentioned that there was some concern about the carb needles sticking open. The unit ran fine 95% of the time but on three different occasions it started losing power while mowing, started spewing burnt oil like it was laying down a smoke screen and then die. Just before it would die the smoking would stop and it would be shooting bright orange flames out of the exhaust, sometimes a good 1-2 feet. After it would die it continued to flame out the exhaust for ~5-8 seconds scorching the bottom of the RH gas tank. If you tried cranking the engine it would smoke as the engine turned over and then you'd get a loud pop with a little bit of flame when you released the key.
Let it sit 20-30 minutes and it would start just fine and never act up again. It only happened 3 times in 48 hrs but the last time it did flame out enough for a neighbor to notice it while I was mowing and call it out to me so it was getting worse.

Thanks again!

[Envy Lawn Service]

The one I kept is an '05. Command Cut also, 25hp 60".
Also no problems with cut quality at all, ever.

Yeah, what you have there is carb problems, probably from ethanol you didn't know you put in it. Since these don't have bowl overflows like motorcycles and stuff, there is nowhere for the excess to go but in your engine. It's flooding to death, and you are getting muffler fires.

Not oil coming out... raw gas + carbon dust in your exhaust.


Myself, this calendar year I have had the most personal issues with lousy fuel that I have started testing for ethanol at home. It's actually not all that hard and I wish I had started doing it sooner.

All you have to do is take a clear 20oz or 16oz drink bottle...
Fill it to a line with a bit of water....
Fill with gas...
Shake up...
Let settle out...

If the water line rises... it contains a form of alcohol.
After some time you will be able to detect different levels of oxygenates too, when you open the bottle.