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brian g
07-31-2009, 08:47 PM
hey guys whats going on?? i am having issues with my lawn and i hear different things from so many people..but i want to get answers from the pros!!

so this is my lawn about a month ago..people would stop and tell me how beautiful it was...
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b359/orangesonoma/house/100_5694.jpg

now no one even looks it
i took these yesterday
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b359/orangesonoma/Picture1070.jpg
im guessing that it is being taken over by crab grass?
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b359/orangesonoma/Picture1066.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b359/orangesonoma/Picture1071.jpg

i live about 30-40 mins from Charlotte i have hard clay for soil
i water mon wed sat with hunter pgp rotors for 45 mins since it has been in the mid 90's since the start of the season
i used milorganite two times this season and used a weed and feed in the start of the season...and in a last ditch attempt i put down some more weed and feed and nothing changed
HELP!!!


thanks
brian
the whole lawn was grown from scratch with fescue and a starter fertilizer

brian g
07-31-2009, 09:04 PM
oh and i think i posted this in the wrong section...sorry

RAlmaroad
08-01-2009, 07:23 AM
Brian: When was the lawn put in? Young grass could have been stressed by the weed and feed. (What did you use here?)
Watering cycle should be OK. I suspect a fungal problem on first glance. (Photos 2/3)
Your grass needs (FOOD). Fescue is about the easiest grass to grow and will go dormant without water but greens up with cooler and wetter temp. You seem to have that covered with the irrigation.
Go to Tractor Supply and get "Daconil" and double strength it in a watering can; put it on those dead spots. It will not help the grass grow but if it is a fungus problem, it will slow the spread. You really need to get some T-Storm granulars from Lesco and give the whole lawn a application. Let them stay on the lawn without irrigation for 24 hours. Then irrigate. These are relatively inexpensive treatments and will not take place of Heritage or Insignia fungicides because they are liquid and applied with high pressure sprayers.
Also get a fertilize with 50% slow released fertilize (and some micro-nutrients; apply and irrigate. The lawn really needs a liquid fertilize that you could feed slowly and a little more frequently. Tell the Lesco (John Deere Landscaping) guy that you'd like a higher potassium sulfate and slow released nitrogen. He'll want to sell you fertilize with potassium chloride! A better choice would be potassium sulfate.

Anyway, follow up with the fungicide, fertilize, water, and give it a little time. For now just pull that crabgrass as much as you can stand. That stuff isn't much of a problem IF the lawn is healthy.

Roy
Do you have a lot of crabgrass? If so, let's get the lawn healthy before trying to kill it. Just kept it mowed close enough to get the seed heads, bag the clippings, and take them to the landfill. A good IPM program would try to prevent spreading the annual--No seeds--no plants. Lots of folks forget about late seeding of crabgrass when they quit mowing and the seeds lie in the ground until July when the heat returns.
You could apply a Speedzone or Trimec but these are liquid and I do not know if you have any equipment to spray them. Gilmore makes a great hose-end applicator that you could use BUT let's wait on that till the fungus (if it is that clears) and the grass is healthy from the fertilize

brian g
08-01-2009, 05:53 PM
i am going to print this out and bring it to my lesco (John Deere Landscaping)guy around the corner...

so i should bag and not mulch...that sucks since i have to buy the attacment for my mower (its a troy bilt rider)

the lawn was started by the builder late august-early september and when i moved in i went to town removing big rocks and appling new top soil from lowes with pennington fescue and the scotts starter fertalizer...

have you ever heard of or used milorgantie?
http://www.milorganite.com/home/
i think i missed the july feeding...could that be my issue along with fungus?


thanks for your help!!

RAlmaroad
08-01-2009, 07:12 PM
i am going to print this out and bring it to my lesco (John Deere Landscaping)guy around the corner...

so i should bag and not mulch...that sucks since i have to buy the attacment for my mower (its a troy bilt rider)

the lawn was started by the builder late august-early september and when i moved in i went to town removing big rocks and appling new top soil from lowes with pennington fescue and the scotts starter fertalizer...

have you ever heard of or used milorgantie?
http://www.milorganite.com/home/
i think i missed the july feeding...could that be my issue along with fungus?


thanks for your help!!

Good Evening Brian:
Yes, I know milorganite:
Primary Nutrients Secondary Nutrients Micronutrients
Nitrogen (N) Calcium (Ca) Iron (Fe)
6.75% 0.98% 5.30%
Phosphorus (P) Sulfur (S) Zinc (Zn)
2.65% 0.71% 0.05%
Potassium (K) Magnesium (Mg) Copper (Cu)
0.46% 0.50% 0.03%
Manganese (Mn)
0.03%
Boron (B)
Trace
Chlorine (Cl)
Trace
Molybdenum (Mo)
Trace

This stuff just is not potent enough to sustain grass in summertime. With only .46% of potassium which is so important for root development and growth, it's no wonder that the grass is looking that way. I won't say anymore about it other than it is about the same as peeing in the ocean.
Yes, you need to get rid of the infested fungus grass or else it will spread. You could rake it and put it in a plastic bag. How much lawn do you have in increments of 1000sq.ft.? Bagging also helps to prevent annual weed seed from spreading. Always bag....always.

It would not hurt to put that Daconil with a watering can. You can cover something like 500 sq feet of turf with that 2 gallon can...

Let it dry and then use the T-Storm (Cleary's 3336).

Post another photo in a couple of weeks after you put down your fertilize. I bet you will see a drastic improvement. I'm not familiar with the inventory of the Lesco at Charlotte but be prepared to spend a few bucks. Measure your yard so you can tell the Lesco rep. He will tell you how much a bag will cover. If you can get something like a 16-0-23 with potassium sulfate, those analysis will help develop the root system.

Fungus is a problem anywhere the humidity is high along with high temps. Make sure you are watering in the mornings rather than in the evenings. Water stays on the grass blades tends to develop fungus greater than dry grass during the cooler night temps.

Roy

I'm over here in Kingsport, TN...about 4.5 hours from you. Fungus around here is prevalent also.

brian g
08-02-2009, 03:24 PM
i dont know the square footage off hand...i will have to check that out..i just hope i can get this under control soon
thanks for your help so far

tombo82685
08-03-2009, 09:59 PM
Good Evening Brian:
Yes, I know milorganite:
Primary Nutrients Secondary Nutrients Micronutrients
Nitrogen (N) Calcium (Ca) Iron (Fe)
6.75% 0.98% 5.30%
Phosphorus (P) Sulfur (S) Zinc (Zn)
2.65% 0.71% 0.05%
Potassium (K) Magnesium (Mg) Copper (Cu)
0.46% 0.50% 0.03%
Manganese (Mn)
0.03%
Boron (B)
Trace
Chlorine (Cl)
Trace
Molybdenum (Mo)
Trace

This stuff just is not potent enough to sustain grass in summertime. With only .46% of potassium which is so important for root development and growth, it's no wonder that the grass is looking that way. I won't say anymore about it other than it is about the same as peeing in the ocean.
Yes, you need to get rid of the infested fungus grass or else it will spread. You could rake it and put it in a plastic bag. How much lawn do you have in increments of 1000sq.ft.? Bagging also helps to prevent annual weed seed from spreading. Always bag....always.

It would not hurt to put that Daconil with a watering can. You can cover something like 500 sq feet of turf with that 2 gallon can...

Let it dry and then use the T-Storm (Cleary's 3336).

Post another photo in a couple of weeks after you put down your fertilize. I bet you will see a drastic improvement. I'm not familiar with the inventory of the Lesco at Charlotte but be prepared to spend a few bucks. Measure your yard so you can tell the Lesco rep. He will tell you how much a bag will cover. If you can get something like a 16-0-23 with potassium sulfate, those analysis will help develop the root system.

Fungus is a problem anywhere the humidity is high along with high temps. Make sure you are watering in the mornings rather than in the evenings. Water stays on the grass blades tends to develop fungus greater than dry grass during the cooler night temps.

Roy

I'm over here in Kingsport, TN...about 4.5 hours from you. Fungus around here is prevalent also.

Milorganite is fine during the summertime, you just have to know how much your putting down. Their is no difference if you put down a half lb of milorganite or a half lb or the 16-0-23 on a nitrogen level.

RAlmaroad
08-04-2009, 08:52 AM
Milorganite is fine during the summertime, you just have to know how much your putting down. Their is no difference if you put down a half lb of milorganite or a half lb or the 16-0-23 on a nitrogen level.

I understand what you are saying. The problem is the ratio of Nitrogen to the Potassium. Grass needs as much or more potassium than nitrogen. In your analysis, if this product is used then your Nitrogen ratio is 13:1. Using a fertilize with a ratio of 1:1 (Nitrogen to Potassium) would benefit the plant way more especially during the growing season for root development and also going into a dormant state. A healthy root system stores the nitrogen for the winter and is so necessary potassium prepares the plant for stress of sun, drought, and cold. The high iron of this fertilize makes a good show. I think the photos speak for themselves on the sustainability of the grass. My lawns are fed every month with a custom mix liquid on a 1:1 ratio with the correct type of Nitrogen and Potassium for the soil and plant type. I also add proper Iron and Micro-nutrients for the grass type; generally about $5-6/1000 sq. ft.
To Each his Own--
Roy

brian g
08-04-2009, 10:31 AM
[B]My lawns are fed every month with a custom mix liquid on a 1:1 ratio with the correct type of Nitrogen and Potassium for the soil and plant type. I also add proper Iron and Micro-nutrients for the grass type; generally about $5-6/1000 sq. ft.
To Each his Own--
Roy

pics of your lawns?

RAlmaroad
08-04-2009, 10:44 AM
pics of your lawns?

I'll be fertilizing in SC this weekend and will shoot some--no problem. There are some already on here but I can't remember the thread from a year or so ago. However I'll post some on this thread.
Roy

brian g
08-04-2009, 11:00 AM
I'll be fertilizing in SC this weekend and will shoot some--no problem. There are some already on here but I can't remember the thread from a year or so ago. However I'll post some on this thread.
Roy

thank you for all your help..

my main reason to make my lawn look beautiful is to prove my neighbor wrong..he says there is now way i can have a great lawn in the summer here...besides the fact that i like the look of a great lawn!

where in SC?

White Gardens
08-04-2009, 11:07 AM
How much and how long are you watering ???

I just noticed the irrigation in the pics.

1999frontier
08-04-2009, 11:15 AM
What kind of grass is that in the 4th picture? I live in NC and my wife and I just bought a house and I believe we have some of this in our yard.

brian g
08-04-2009, 11:16 AM
How much and how long are you watering ???

I just noticed the irrigation in the pics.

hunter pgp rotors for 45 mins..i was told this was good since they mist more then spray..im open to suggestions and will try anything...i was doing this when we had weeks of 95+

brian g
08-04-2009, 11:17 AM
What kind of grass is that in the 4th picture? I live in NC and my wife and I just bought a house and I believe we have some of this in our yard.
i have been told it is crab grass...it is ugly..where in NC?

1999frontier
08-04-2009, 11:19 AM
Nash County

White Gardens
08-04-2009, 11:23 AM
Your lawn needs around 1-2 inches of water a week.

Water to frequently and too shallow, and the wrong time of day will give you disease problems and root growth problems.

Almost what your pics show.

Next time you water, use an old tuna can and measure how much you are watering each time. The tuna can is approximately an inch or so deep.

I would think a quarter to half an inch every other day would be sufficient.

Also, is that a KGB lawn ?? Going to be hard to keep a cools season grass looking perfect in the heat of summer. We've had an extremely cool and wet year in the Midwest, so all our lawns have looked spectacular. I've only watered a handful of times this year.

brian g
08-04-2009, 11:33 AM
Ok I will measure the water fall. Up until this past few weeks it has been very dry
So that is why I had it on for so long...I think its too much cause now that I think about it the lawn was good when I was watering for twenty min
Posted via Mobile Device

White Gardens
08-04-2009, 11:48 AM
Also, did you till deeply when you put the lawn in.

Just adding topsoil isn't enough, you could have a hard-pan from the newer construction. That also dictates how long and often you need to water.

In the end, I would get a soil sample and go to your local extension office and get the kit to send it to a lab. Knowing is half the battle and if you know exactly what's going on, then you can make better choices on chemicals and fert, and also which cultural practices are going to work for you.

cpa4t9r
08-04-2009, 12:00 PM
Couple of quick suggestions - for some reason I can't see the pics:

Check out NCState's maintenance calendars for fescue lawns. They say no N after 3/15, but I put 1 lb. ~3/31 and then .25 lb. 5-10-31 in June with 10% iron. Get everything for JDL or check out Green Resource in south Charlotte and other locations e.g. Raleigh. I get better pricing there than JDL on a lot of chemicals/fert/seed.

Get a soil test - probably acidic and need to add lime

Aerate heavily and overseed 9/1 - 9/15 - preferably using a slit-seeder

May want to consider adding a fescue/kentucky bluegrass blend. Helps fill in dead spots, introduces more variety of cultivars which would help with disease etc. Roots of KBG help recover when you have droughty conditions and bounces back pretty good when the rains finally come.

Summer - need to irrigate every other day as someone else suggested - cooler times you can switch to every 3rd day or twice/week.

It is tough to keep cool-season grass looking good around here, but it can be done. You're gonna have to educate yourself and research to use the right products at the right times in the right amounts to get the results you're looking for.

Of course, you could always just pay somebody to do it for you......

Kiril
08-04-2009, 12:00 PM
Your lawn needs around 1-2 inches of water a week.

WTF! Stop making "general" watering recommendations please.

@everyone

Fertilization ..... if you don't know what is already available then how the hell can you recommend what to apply?
Stop shooting in the dark!

cpa4t9r
08-04-2009, 12:04 PM
This also gives you some specifics on mowing height, irrigation needs and is tailored for a HO.

White Gardens
08-04-2009, 12:48 PM
WTF! Stop making "general" watering recommendations please.

@everyone

Fertilization ..... if you don't know what is already available then how the hell can you recommend what to apply?
Stop shooting in the dark!

Why the hostility.

I'm feeling the issue out, probing around. I don't think we are getting the full story and even some of the earlier posts are vague.

If you read my last post, I recommended having a soil sample taken. Never did I make any suggestions on fert. Plenty of people on here take more shots in the dark than I do and recommend applications of product "X" without knowing the true conditions.

Did you read my last post Kiril. Generally cool season grasses need 1-2 inches of water a week, Depending on soil conditions. Sure we all like to water deeply as recommended, but if the sod is laying on clay, then that's not going to happen. I also don't like the more "misting" style irrigation heads. You lose a lot of water to evaporation that way and he's probably not putting down enough water every time, even though he thinks he is.

All I'm doing is trying to figure out the cultural practices before any chemicals or major renovation is done for no reason at all.

Kiril
08-04-2009, 01:41 PM
Why the hostility.

No hostility ... I said please. Beyond that, too many people dispensing irrigation scheduling advice who don't know the first thing about it. Not saying you fall into that category, but given your suggestions, it is more likely than not you do.

Did you read my last post Kiril. Generally cool season grasses need 1-2 inches of water a week, Depending on soil conditions.

You mean this?

I would think a quarter to half an inch every other day would be sufficient.

1/4 to 1/2 inch every other day on a heavy clay? Please tell me how long a saturated clay soil takes to reach field capacity. How about providing a rough estimate of water holding capacity for that type of soil.

FYI, you made no mention of soil conditions, or environmental conditions either.
Also if you think you can accurately determine precipitation rate from a single tuna can you are mistaken.

Sure we all like to water deeply as recommended, but if the sod is laying on clay, then that's not going to happen.

That is pure B.S.

I also don't like the more "misting" style irrigation heads. You lose a lot of water to evaporation that way and he's probably not putting down enough water every time, even though he thinks he is.

You mention evaporation losses yet you are recommending irrigating every other day?

FYI, average ETo in Charlotte for July and August is 7.00-7.50 inches/month. Assuming ETo of 7.25, Kc of 0.8 and a stress factor of 0.6 ("normal" stress) that leaves us with a rough water requirement 0.116 inches/day for a 30 day month when not considering any of the other numerous factors. BTW, that was determined using a simplified formula for determining a crops water needs.

This leaves us with 0.812 inches/week, not 1" and certainly not 2". Take into consideration the other factors you may be able to get away with less.

Long story short, please stop making general recommendations.

White Gardens
08-04-2009, 02:43 PM
1/4 to 1/2 inch every other day on a heavy clay? Please tell me how long a saturated clay soil takes to reach field capacity. How about providing a rough estimate of water holding capacity for that type of soil.

FYI, you made no mention of soil conditions, or environmental conditions either. Also if you think you can accurately determine precipitation rate from a single tuna can you are mistaken.

That is pure B.S.

You mention evaporation losses yet you are recommending irrigating every other day?

What is wrong with a tuna can. You put it out around your irrigation heads and you figure the watering rate for each head. Tuna cans measure water as well as 100 dollars worth of rain-gauges put around your lawn.

FYI, average ETo in Charlotte for July and August is 7.00-7.50 inches/month. Assuming ETo of 7.25, Kc of 0.8 and a stress factor of 0.6 ("normal" stress) that leaves us with a rough water requirement 0.116 inches/day for a 30 day month when not considering any of the other numerous factors. BTW, that was determined using a simplified formula for determining a crops water needs.

This leaves us with 0.812 inches/week, not 1" and certainly not 2". Take into consideration the other factors you may be able to get away with less.

Long story short, please stop making general recommendations.

I made a couple of general statements, sure, but I also haven't been answered on the questions of the soil conditions. What do you expect. This is an internet forum, everything is generalized, and the only way not to generalize is to be there in person. Are you there in person???

Sometimes the simplest answer is the best, and I'm trying to figure the simple stuff out first.

I don't even know if there is a hard-pan or clay. I can only assume, if that is the case, you would never be able to put much water down before it starts to run off, and then it will dry off quick, so you would have to water again.

I said a lawn needs 1-2 inches a week. Did I say irrigate 1-2 inches a week. No, if it rains, you would irrigate less. Common sense. 1-2 inches is a general rule of thumb, not a recommendation for all lawns and all conditions.

If he irrigates, then I would use a different type of head, instead of the mister style. If he has irrigation, then use it, why would I tell him not to.

Kiril
08-04-2009, 02:45 PM
I don't even know if there is a hard-pan or clay. I can only assume, if that is the case, you would never be able to put much water down before it starts to run off, and then it will dry off quick, so you would have to water again.

Never heard of cycle and soak?

On the "general recommendations", internet forum or not, people will take those "general recommendations" and run with them. Is this responsible .... NO! Get the required information from the poster before you make a recommendation!

White Gardens
08-04-2009, 02:47 PM
1/4 to 1/2 inch every other day on a heavy clay? Please tell me how long a saturated clay soil takes to reach field capacity. How about providing a rough estimate of water holding capacity for that type of soil.

FYI, you made no mention of soil conditions, or environmental conditions either. Also if you think you can accurately determine precipitation rate from a single tuna can you are mistaken.

That is pure B.S.

You mention evaporation losses yet you are recommending irrigating every other day?

FYI, average ETo in Charlotte for July and August is 7.00-7.50 inches/month. Assuming ETo of 7.25, Kc of 0.8 and a stress factor of 0.6 ("normal" stress) that leaves us with a rough water requirement 0.116 inches/day for a 30 day month when not considering any of the other numerous factors. BTW, that was determined using a simplified formula for determining a crops water needs.

This leaves us with 0.812 inches/week, not 1" and certainly not 2". Take into consideration the other factors you may be able to get away with less.

Long story short, please stop making general recommendations.

I made a couple of general statements, sure, but I also haven't been answered on the questions of the soil conditions. What do you expect. This is an internet forum, everything is generalized, and the only way not to generalize is to be there in person. Are you there in person???

Sometimes the simplest answer is the best, and I'm trying to figure the simple stuff out first.

And what's wrong with a tuna can. It measures water just as well as any other type of vessel. Put them around your yard and you can figure how much water each zone is receiving. What's a better suggestion, buy 100 dollars worth of rain gauges ??

I don't even know if there is a hard-pan or clay. I can only assume, if that is the case, you would never be able to put much water down before it starts to run off, and then it will dry off quick, so you would have to water more often. The key is to find that sweet spot where you are watering enough but not too much.

I said a lawn needs 1-2 inches a week. Did I say irrigate 1-2 inches a week. No, if it rains, you would irrigate less. Common sense. 1-2 inches is a general rule of thumb, not a recommendation for all lawns and all conditions.

If he irrigates, then I would use a different type of head, instead of the mister style. If he has irrigation, then use it, why would I tell him not to.

Ultimately, get a soil sample. That will answer 75% of your questions.

Kiril
08-04-2009, 03:06 PM
And what's wrong with a tuna can. It measures water just as well as any other type of vessel. Put them around your yard and you can figure how much water each zone is receiving. What's a better suggestion, buy 100 dollars worth of rain gauges ??

Nothing wrong with a tuna can, as long as you have enough of them and you know how to determine your low quarter.

That said, you didn't say multiple tuna cans, you said a single tuna can.

Next time you water, use an old tuna can and measure how much you are watering each time. The tuna can is approximately an inch or so deep.

Sorry, but I fail to see how the above suggestion translates into the proper way to conduct a catch can audit. If you are going to make a suggestion like this, at least provide the necessary and proper information to do so.

http://www.irrigation.org/certification/pdf/AuditGuidelines_FINAL.pdf

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/GREENHOUSE/hortgardens/conservation/agentdemo1.pdf


II said a lawn needs 1-2 inches a week. Did I say irrigate 1-2 inches a week.

Ummm, yes you did.

I would think a quarter to half an inch every other day would be sufficient.

Irrigate 4 times in an 8 day period @ 1/4" = 1" applied water.
Irrigate 4 times in an 8 day period @ 1/2" = 2" applied water.

1-2 inches is a general rule of thumb, not a recommendation for all lawns and all conditions.

Then why do people keep throwing those numbers out there without asking for the necessary information to give an informed suggestion? What do YOU think the OP will do with your suggestion ......... apply 1-2" of water/week.

Not trying to personally bust your balls here, but some of the "recommendations" being thrown around here by "professionals" are more than lame, and it needs to stop.

White Gardens
08-04-2009, 03:20 PM
I respect your opinion Kiril, just want to throw that out there.

Such as the general 1-2 inch recommendation, that is only a base point to start from. It gives someone the general idea if they are watering too much or too little, and gives you an idea of where you need to be for watering.

Yes, many factors to consider such as soil conditions, weather conditions, moisture holding capacity, etc.... we don't know the whole story, and yes, I would like to know more details before making a definite recommendation. But even then, it's a recommendation from 1000 miles away.

cudaclan
08-04-2009, 06:21 PM
i have been told it is crab grass...it is ugly..where in NC?

It is CG. It will drop its seed head for next years germination. First frost will start die-back. It will turn a rusty brown color when it does.

1999frontier
08-04-2009, 10:56 PM
It is CG. It will drop its seed head for next years germination. First frost will start die-back. It will turn a rusty brown color when it does.

So I guess I need to kill the crabgrass? I'm having a hard time deciding between cool or warm season grass. I live in NC on the line between piedmont and coastal plain area. Not sure what grass to plant.
Posted via Mobile Device

Blood Bought
08-07-2009, 11:38 PM
The lawn burned up from lack of water, plain and simple. I live 20 min from Charlotte. In June we received less than 2" of rain and had plenty of heat. By the way ET for Charlotte in June and July is 7.63-7.64. The young shallow rooted grass is what has died leaving only the older mature plants and crab grass. He needed 0.25-0.33 inches of water a night in the absence of rainfall to keep his grass healthy. Most small rotors apply around a 1/4" of water per hour.

Kiril
08-08-2009, 10:22 AM
The lawn burned up from lack of water, plain and simple. I live 20 min from Charlotte. In June we received less than 2" of rain and had plenty of heat. By the way ET for Charlotte in June and July is 7.63-7.64. The young shallow rooted grass is what has died leaving only the older mature plants and crab grass. He needed 0.25-0.33 inches of water a night in the absence of rainfall to keep his grass healthy. Most small rotors apply around a 1/4" of water per hour.

See White Gardens, case in point. :rolleyes:

And "most small rotors" ......... don't do much irrigation design do you? :hammerhead:

Care to pick the OPs nozzles and pressure from this chart.

http://www.hunterindustries.com/Products/Rotors/pgp.html

Clearly 1/4"/hour is anything but "most", even for a PGP.

A PGJ is a "small rotor", care to check the nozzle charts for those?

http://www.hunterindustries.com/Products/Rotors/pgjdata.html

Or how about the MPRotator, also a "small rotor".

http://www.hunterindustries.com/Resources/PDFs/Brochures/Domestic/MPRotator-PerformanceCard.pdf

If you knew the nozzle sizes and pressure at the nozzle it should be pretty easy to determine what your PR is for that area .... why the hell would you guess?

BTW, based on the pic, doesn't look like they are nozzled correctly either. The half circle rotor in the pic looks like it might have the same nozzle as the quarter circle rotors.

Blood Bought
08-08-2009, 11:18 AM
"If you knew the nozzle sizes and pressure at the nozzle it should be pretty easy to determine what your PR is for that area .... why the hell would you guess?"

Who's guessing? By the charts he needed 30 to 40 min per night during dry conditions. The pics show that the nozzle size is on the low to mid size range. 30-40min puts him in the .25-.33" PR range.

"BTW, based on the pic, doesn't look like they are nozzled correctly either. The half circle rotor in the pic looks like it might have the same nozzle as the quarter circle rotors"

A visual difference in the stream equates to at least a 50% actual difference.
I'm guessing no more than you. Thank-you Prof. Kiril, I bow at your arrogant feet.

Kiril
08-08-2009, 11:37 AM
Who's guessing? By the charts he needed 30 to 40 min per night during dry conditions. The pics show that the nozzle size is on the low to mid size range. 30-40min puts him in the .25-.33" PR range.

By what charts? You obviously didn't even run the most basic calculations for determining irrigation requirements nor, it appears, do you have the first clue about irrigation scheduling. Really dude, you are a prime example of why lawn boys should stay away from irrigation management.

A visual difference in the stream equates to at least a 50% actual difference.

HUH? What the hell are you talking about? I noted that the rotors appear to be nozzled the same .... i.e. they should be checked. I'm not guessing at nozzle size and dynamic pressures home slice, unlike you.

Blood Bought
08-08-2009, 11:42 AM
"And "most small rotors" ......... don't do much irrigation design do you? "

Design?, everything from patio homes to sports fields. postage stamp properties to 100 acre campasses.

Blood Bought
08-08-2009, 11:45 AM
By what charts? You obviously didn't even run the most basic calculations for determining irrigation requirements nor, it appears, do you have the first clue about irrigation scheduling. Really dude, you are a prime example of why lawn boys should stay away from irrigation management.



HUH? What the hell are you talking about? I noted that the rotors appear to be nozzled the same .... i.e. they should be checked. I'm not guessing at nozzle size and dynamic pressures home slice, unlike you.

I am not a lawn boy. You however are an arrogant jerk!

Kiril
08-08-2009, 12:15 PM
"And "most small rotors" ......... don't do much irrigation design do you? "

Design?, everything from patio homes to sports fields. postage stamp properties to 100 acre campasses.

Really ... and yet you recommend 1/4" or more of daily water and make wild guesses at system PR. I know a lot of guys who "think" they can design and manage irrigation, but in reality they don't have the first clue.

You can call me any name you want, but continue to display your ignorance and you get what you deserve. As stated before, the B.S. uninformed recommendations on this site need to stop.

BTW, got those "charts".

Blood Bought
08-08-2009, 12:54 PM
Really ... and yet you recommend 1/4" or more of daily water and make wild guesses at system PR. I know a lot of guys who "think" they can design and manage irrigation, but in reality they don't have the first clue.

You can call me any name you want, but continue to display your ignorance and you get what you deserve. As stated before, the B.S. uninformed recommendations on this site need to stop.

BTW, got those "charts".

Your know it all arrogance blinds you. I live in the same area as Brian G., I manage irrigation in the same local, I know the soil, the crop, and the weather we have experianced here. I'm not guessing on how much water. I'm using the information originally posted and my knowledge of the locallity. Perhaps you didn't except the ET information I gave or the local rainfall amounts given. Perhaps you didn't see the obvious draught damage in the photos. The water recommendations I made are spot on as long as he reduces the amounts by natural rainfall. A knowledgable person never overlooks the value of local knowledge particularly if he is on the other side of the country behind a desk.

Blood Bought
08-08-2009, 01:36 PM
BTW, got those "charts".

The "charts" were the nozzle charts you posted links to.

Kiril
08-08-2009, 01:38 PM
Believe what you want BB ........ spot on recommendations using unadjusted pan evaporation data. :laugh:

Still waiting for you to demonstrate you know how to determine water requirements for turf. Even the simplest formula is better than nothing.

FYI, a knowledgeable person collects the necessary data required to make an informed recommendation. Have you done this ......... I think not!

Odd how I can maintain great looking fescue turf growing in a clay soil in a region with no rain and ETo of 7-8"/month in the summer on a 3-4 day schedule with temps averaging in the mid to upper 90's.

But you are right, I know nothing about irrigating turf in clay soils in drought conditions. :rolleyes:

Kiril
08-08-2009, 01:40 PM
I hope so, you posted the links.

Really dude .... those charts tell you how much water is required by a landscape?

I wonder if you have ever conducted a standard irrigation audit or even owns a moisture meter.

Blood Bought
08-08-2009, 02:01 PM
Believe what you want BB ........ spot on recommendations using unadjusted pan evaporation data. :laugh:

Still waiting for you to demonstrate you know how to determine water requirements for turf. Even the simplest formula is better than nothing.

FYI, a knowledgeable person collects the necessary data required to make an informed recommendation. Have you done this ......... I think not!

Odd how I can maintain great looking fescue turf growing in a clay soil in a region with no rain and ETo of 7-8"/month in the summer on a 3-4 day schedule with temps averaging in the mid to upper 90's.

But you are right, I know nothing about irrigating turf in clay soils in drought conditions. :rolleyes:

Formula and data are starting points. They always require adjustment. I did not mean to infer that you have no knowledge of growing fescue in clay soils and drought conditions. I would like to know if you can establish new fescue turf in those conditions on a 3-4 day irrigation schedule? If you can I humbly give you my respect.

Kiril
08-08-2009, 02:28 PM
Who said anything about establishing turf? Based on the info provided by the OP, this turf was initially established nearly a year ago (Aug-Sept of 2008).

the lawn was started by the builder late august-early september and when i moved in i went to town removing big rocks and appling new top soil from lowes with pennington fescue and the scotts starter fertalizer...

Blood Bought
08-08-2009, 03:36 PM
So, in your opinion, in the predominate clay and underlying hardpan you believe the new fescue should have developed a deep enough root system to weather the dry conditions we experianced in May and June? I'm not so sure that without a lot of work to modify the soil profile it would establish well enough to reduce watering to a 3-4 day schd. The subdivisions around here do little to nothing to improve soil conditions on the build sites. They cut the earth down to level and if you are lucky replace 1-2" of the topsoil.

RAlmaroad
08-10-2009, 08:35 PM
pics of your lawns?

Good Evening Brian: I don't know if you still need these but I did say I'd shoot you a couple.
First two (2) photos are of centipede yards; Last is St. Augustine.
Roy

PS: I do not mow these yards and because they are so lush and thick, the mower's tracks show up more than they need to do in these photographs. Sorry

brian g
08-10-2009, 09:24 PM
jeez this thread went to **** real fast..


so wait i need different nozzels for 1/4 turn then 1/2 turn?? i hate the people who did my irrigation..

oh and thanks for the pics...they look beautiful...

brian g
08-14-2009, 05:45 PM
wtf? come on

Kiril
08-14-2009, 07:05 PM
so wait i need different nozzels for 1/4 turn then 1/2 turn??

Yes. Pull up the rotor when it is off and check the numbers on the nozzle. If the nozzle number is the same for both 90 and 180 degree arcs, then you need to renozzle the 180 degree rotors, or the 90's, or all of them.

brian g
08-14-2009, 07:07 PM
Ok ill look and let you know.
Posted via Mobile Device

brian g
08-22-2009, 10:22 PM
ok i looked and the 90's have 5's and the 180's have 6's

and they are red if that matters

Kiril
08-23-2009, 10:56 AM
ok i looked and the 90's have 5's and the 180's have 6's

and they are red if that matters

Assuming 40PSI at the nozzle, your 180's should be a #8 nozzle.