PDA

View Full Version : Barricade & broadleaves:It's on the label ???


replenish&subdue
08-05-2009, 03:35 PM
I have been in the weed control business 12 yrs. and in the south have always used Simazine in the fall to prevent broadleaves.But with the poa problem lately,I have been able to control it by applying barricade in early Sept.
The label says it will control henbit & chickweed among other winter weeds then why not just begin the fall pre-emerge earlier with barricade at 1 lb. and skip the princep?? I know the barricade cost more but I was told of excellent control by applying barricade twice a year :early Sept. and in early Feb. .
It would eliminate the simazine,take care of poa and I have a plan how to make up with one lost treatment and extra cost of barricade.
I hope for some feedback.
Thanks

mdlwn1
08-05-2009, 05:51 PM
Im interested to hear any responses as well. Ive used dimension late for the poa.

ted putnam
08-05-2009, 09:41 PM
I have heard the same thing. I have to admit I have not been impressed with the broadleaf weed control I've seen from Prodiamine the last 2 yrs( using only in the Spring) We have had a couple of really wet yrs so it's hard to say for sure. I did spray a baseball field yesterday that I had sprayed back in mid Feb. I was impressed. It's had absolutely nothing since then and was surprisingly clean. No fert/weed control. It was sprayed with Dimension. I may have to make a change. I was told a couple of yrs ago by a State Plant Board official to spray the Princep at a higher rate in the Fall and better annual bluegrass control would be achieved. I sprayed 1.25 oz/K last year and had very few problems this Spring. He suggested as much as 1.5 oz/K but I was a little nervous to go that high...Anyway, my 2 cents.

quiet
08-05-2009, 11:20 PM
I'm way down south where we don't have much of a winter; just a 3 month period where the tif bermuda goes dormant.

I use Barricade, and have had excellent results and longevity doing split apps in early Sept and early December. Very little breakthrough of crabgrass throughout the year, and good to very good control on poa. The only poa outbreaks I get are on problem lawns where poa has been a problem in the past and irrigation coverage is inconsistent.

But I've found prodiamine is a little weak on broadleafs. I end up doing more spot spraying than I'd like in the winter . . . well, what passes for winter here. Temps in 60's and 70's.

brizine
08-05-2009, 11:55 PM
I spray simazine at 1.5 oz/1000 and it works great. Prodamine is what I use in the spring and have had excellent results with exception of goose grass. I have yet to find an effective pre-emergent to control goose grass.

ted putnam
08-06-2009, 12:09 AM
I spray simazine at 1.5 oz/1000 and it works great. Prodamine is what I use in the spring and have had excellent results with exception of goose grass. I have yet to find an effective pre-emergent to control goose grass.

Good to know you've used it at that rate with no problems. Been awhile since I've looked at a simazine label but I believe the label rate is like 2 pints/acre. At that rate you end up running service calls for poa annua in the Spring instead of production. :laugh: Like I said, I've had very good results with the 1.25 oz rate

Quiet, broadleaf control has been my disappointment with Prodiamine. Less expensive than Dimension and more user friendly than Pendimethalin.

VARMIT COMMISSION
08-06-2009, 11:58 AM
Im with brizine on this one, 2 quarts an acre in the fall.

Think Green
08-06-2009, 10:19 PM
I was sold onto Pendimethalin from my supplier a couple of years ago to supplement our cost issues with using Prodiamine.
I used Simazine in the early part of September and backed that up with the Barricade in a split app. In doing this, we achieved better poa control than with Simazine alone, and our broadleaf for the increment winters was acceptible.. The issues with the Pre-M are that the split apps still didn't keep the crabgrass from merging nor did it stop certain broadleaf from popping up..?
I banged my head on the floor and beat our sprayer to death and went through 4 different kinds of nozzles---calibrated,calibrated,calibrated, and still the crabgrass kept on coming back. The broadleaf material just took a jump over the Pre-m!! My extension service friend told me that the Pre-M is used in Rice with good results for certain weeds, but for lawns it doesn't stay around but for about 30 days with the organic matter and temperatures in the upper 2 inches of the soils. Extra moist soils don't help it out either. He said that I would be better off with split apping the Barricade.
The problem for us lies in the cost factor. Customers aren't wanting to pay any more than 4-5 per 1,ooo sq.ft to apply anything. This darn money issue is seriously making me think of giving my licenses back to the state.

ted putnam
08-06-2009, 11:17 PM
I was sold onto Pendimethalin from my supplier a couple of years ago to supplement our cost issues with using Prodiamine.
I used Simazine in the early part of September and backed that up with the Barricade in a split app. In doing this, we achieved better poa control than with Simazine alone, and our broadleaf for the increment winters was acceptible.. The issues with the Pre-M are that the split apps still didn't keep the crabgrass from merging nor did it stop certain broadleaf from popping up..?
I banged my head on the floor and beat our sprayer to death and went through 4 different kinds of nozzles---calibrated,calibrated,calibrated, and still the crabgrass kept on coming back. The broadleaf material just took a jump over the Pre-m!! My extension service friend told me that the Pre-M is used in Rice with good results for certain weeds, but for lawns it doesn't stay around but for about 30 days with the organic matter and temperatures in the upper 2 inches of the soils. Extra moist soils don't help it out either. He said that I would be better off with split apping the Barricade.
The problem for us lies in the cost factor. Customers aren't wanting to pay any more than 4-5 per 1,ooo sq.ft to apply anything. This darn money issue is seriously making me think of giving my licenses back to the state.

Yes, people are definitely watching their pocketbooks this year. I could tell by my number of new sales this year but I refused to budge on my prices. I didn't go up but I also didn't drop price or barter with anyone. I have also been able to tell by how people have paid this year. Veeerrrry Sloooow! My A/R has run higher on average this year than any years previous. I've also had to send more past due letters and phone calls than ever before. SUX. I can tell our economy is getting better....the price of fuel is going up!:laugh::cry:

ted putnam
08-06-2009, 11:21 PM
One other thing. I was really impressed with the performance of the Dithiopyr. Really... However, cost is the issue. Higher than the Prodiamine, but maybe worth it. We have to weigh price vs. performance sometimes. Peace of mind comes with a price...

quiet
08-06-2009, 11:30 PM
One other thing. I was really impressed with the performance of the Dithiopyr. Really... However, cost is the issue. Higher than the Prodiamine, but maybe worth it. We have to weigh price vs. performance sometimes. Peace of mind comes with a price...

I rotate out of prodiamine every 3rd year with dithiopyr. Better broadleaf control, but in my experience it doesn't last near as long as prodiamine.

And chasing down crabgrass that has broken through in 100 degree heat isn't anyone's idea of fun.

causalitist
08-06-2009, 11:33 PM
prodiamine isnt that great for broadleafs

i think dimension is tho.
this is a interesting topic.. i always thought the right way to do it would be bite the bullet on cost.. do 2 costly pre-emergent/umaxx apps = 90% done..
then 3-4 spot apps/no fert (loooow cost)

what about isoxaben? thats specifically for broadleafs.. $3.14/M for me tho.. how long does it last? if it lasted all season it would save me $

ted putnam
08-07-2009, 12:20 AM
I rotate out of prodiamine every 3rd year with dithiopyr. Better broadleaf control, but in my experience it doesn't last near as long as prodiamine.

And chasing down crabgrass that has broken through in 100 degree heat isn't anyone's idea of fun.

I did 5 baseball fields in all the other day. These were all treated mid Feb to mid March and have had nothing done since, due to construction of the complex. One I sprayed with Dimension ...early. One I sprayed with Prodiamine about a week later and the other 3 I spread 0-0-7 with Pre-M about a month after the first field I sprayed. I treated all 5 again 2 days ago. The Dimension field was the cleanest by far ( I was able to spot spray it). Next was the Prodiamine field. It and the Pre-M fields had to be blanketed with post emerg grassy and broadleaf control. We've had plenty of rain this year. The Dimension treated field was thick but not as thick as the others. This could have been due to sod quality or some other factors though. I just found it interesting and quite noticeable.

replenish&subdue
08-07-2009, 12:29 AM
A sales rep.for syngenta gave me this reply.
he short answer to your question is this…Poa annua has adapted, and germinates all season long today…Fred Yelverton at NC State has shown that 15% of poa annua now germinates at 90 degree soil temps or higher (summer) and most of the rest germinates mostly in the fall-mid Sept to October and can get 2nd flushes into January/February if no pre-emergent is present.



The reason we still recommend tank mixing Princep with Barricade in the Fall is that we can expect 90%+ control of poa with Barricade, no pre-emergent provides 100%. Even 99% control, when you have 14,000 poa annua seeds in a square foot of soil 4” deep is a LOT of seed to control..So adding the Princep gives you extra insurance that any poa that has already germinated can be controlled in early stages with Princep, and it also cleans up the 10% that Barricade doesn’t get, and also gives you good winter annual control at a very cheap cost/acre.

greendoctor
08-07-2009, 02:01 AM
prodiamine isnt that great for broadleafs

i think dimension is tho.
this is a interesting topic.. i always thought the right way to do it would be bite the bullet on cost.. do 2 costly pre-emergent/umaxx apps = 90% done..
then 3-4 spot apps/no fert (loooow cost)

what about isoxaben? thats specifically for broadleafs.. $3.14/M for me tho.. how long does it last? if it lasted all season it would save me $

In cool season areas, if applied with your grassy weed preemergent, it should last all season long. I am at the most southern extreme of the US, no real winter here. I do not allow lawns to sprout broadleaf weeds all year long. Ones that would otherwise do that get a Gallery(isoxaben) application, followed by simazine, followed by Gallery rotation. I get 4 months out of Gallery here. The point of this is to minimize the need to apply postemergents for broadleaf weeds. Warm season grasses have limited tolerance to Three-Way, much less the new ones with triclopyr or fluroxypyr.