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View Full Version : What kills Japanese Clover?


Jampinot
08-06-2009, 09:17 PM
:confused:I need to know what herbicide I need to use to kill the Japanese Clover that has taken over several of my customers lawns. I fertilized with Scotts Summer Weed and Feed and killed the weeds with Weed Be Gone. I am a very small landscaper who manages many of the lawns in the area where I live. I also have a few customers who require that I only use organic products so if there is anything that isn't an herbicide I would like to know that too.

whoopassonthebluegrass
08-06-2009, 09:33 PM
Are you a licensed applicator?

Jampinot
08-06-2009, 09:44 PM
Sorry, I stumbled onto this site. I am a homeowner that also takes care of several senior citizens lawns as well as mine.

whoopassonthebluegrass
08-06-2009, 09:48 PM
If you're being compensated in any way by those other people, it's illegal for you to applicate without a license.

Think Green
08-06-2009, 10:28 PM
Conan's Axe has swung and taken the head off--yet another helpless civillian!!!!

Jampinot,
The market to which you are referring to is also covered in the pesticide division that is regulated by each State's Pesticide Application Division!
Your State may not regulate the application of Fertilizers, but I can almost guarantee that herbicides will be restricted. Check with your state's regulatory board online and see what you need to apply for....!! Now--you customer can go and buy anything and apply anything they want from any retail giant. You, however--cannot apply these products for hire without being a licensed individual..
Don't be misled by some responses on this site...........do the homework for yourself and best of all.........protect yourself from fines and more fines.

RigglePLC
08-06-2009, 10:40 PM
Make sure we are talking about the same plant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_clover

Your friends can use Ortho "Chickweed, Oxalis, and Clover killer". Repeat as needed.

The organic guys--well they just need an attitude adjustment--as a legume--clover is good for the soil and adds its own fertilizer, gradually enriching the soil. I suggest wine--a recent California vintage is good enough.

Jampinot
08-06-2009, 10:49 PM
I am not being compensated by the Senior's whose lawns I take care of unless cookies or brownies count. I am volunteering to help the Seniors who are on a fixed income in my neighborhood. I am disabled myself but I have a riding mower and I am able to spread fertilizer which I buy in bulk. Only one of my friends uses the Weed Be Gone and since they have Gout in their hands I am not going to make them hold the hose to apply it. There are also no plastic gloves that fit over his hand.

Is there a product available or are you only concerned that I am doing something illegal? I didn't know it was against the law to volunteer to help those who are elderly and can't afford to hire a professional to take care of their lawns.

Whitey4
08-06-2009, 10:59 PM
You have to be careful about pesticides, especailly in parts of Canada... don't get yourself in trouble for being a nice guy.

Granular weed controls are pretty ineffective. Spraying is the way to go.

Runner
08-06-2009, 11:07 PM
This is true. It doesn't necessarily have to be (for hire" or "for compensatioin", either. It is when t is done in the line of your work that it is regulated, as well.
It's funny that you mention Japanese clover on this, the 64th anniversary. I know ONE thing that was successful in burning it right up!

Jampinot
08-06-2009, 11:08 PM
I am not being compensated monetarily and I only apply herbicides on own property and assist another disabled person. Don't worry, no one would drink our water anyway with all the floaties in it. I double filter my own!Conan's Axe has swung and taken the head off--yet another helpless civillian!!!!

Jampinot,
The market to which you are referring to is also covered in the pesticide division that is regulated by each State's Pesticide Application Division!
Your State may not regulate the application of Fertilizers, but I can almost guarantee that herbicides will be restricted. Check with your state's regulatory board online and see what you need to apply for....!! Now--you customer can go and buy anything and apply anything they want from any retail giant. You, however--cannot apply these products for hire without being a licensed individual..
Don't be misled by some responses on this site...........do the homework for yourself and best of all.........protect yourself from fines and more fines.

Jampinot
08-06-2009, 11:29 PM
At last, someone who isn't out to persecute a volunteer who is only helping out others on a fixed income like me. If I knew I would be getting the other replies I got I would have called a professional. It isn't like I am spreading Agent Orange all over like my ex-husband used to get rid of the blackberries that came over our shared fence. That would really get some peoples panties in a wad! The people who are organic are concerned about their grandkids playing on their lawn. I know my dad sprayed everything and we played on it as soon as it dried. Thanks for your help. It is greatly appreciated and my Aquilla Seniors thank you also.Make sure we are talking about the same plant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_clover

Your friends can use Ortho "Chickweed, Oxalis, and Clover killer". Repeat as needed.

The organic guys--well they just need an attitude adjustment--as a legume--clover is good for the soil and adds its own fertilizer, gradually enriching the soil. I suggest wine--a recent California vintage is good enough.

whoopassonthebluegrass
08-06-2009, 11:39 PM
At last, someone who isn't out to persecute a volunteer who is only helping out others on a fixed income like me.

Sorry to disturb you, my friend. We are in a constant battle with illegal hacks who undercut us legal and legitimate operations at every turn.

Your first post you used the words "my customers". That's what set it off.

hughmcjr
08-07-2009, 12:23 AM
Actually the wording in the pdf (can't copy and paste from pdf's unfortunately) in this link below states if you are a person engaged in the business of applying pesticides to the land or property of another. This is for Washington State:

http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/docs/Form4375.pdf

Are you in business to apply pesticides to the property of another? I don't think so, and you aren't going to get or use restricted use herbicides anyway by default of not having a license. And brownies and cookies don't count. I am very sociable with my customers most of whom are elderly women. I sit down with them on occasion and some may give me cookies or a pie etc. This is NOT compensation for services and DO NOT let any bureaucrat, like IRS, State tax, CPA, pesiticide regulatory agency tell you it is. Now sex might be, haha. Seriously, you aren't in business and the cookies and brownies are meant as a social gesture as a way to say thank you, not to say this should help lessen your food bill this week. :rolleyes: Even in my case and I do get compensated, the cookies and pies are NOT compensation. What, we can't have a friendly relationship with some clientele that invites us for dinner outside of work time, etc unless it counts as compensation. :rolleyes: If the state or feds want to take us to court for having been invited to dinner at a clients house that has NOTHING to do with our business arrangement, then they can have a field day trying to prove it is compensation.


Anyway... if you can get Banvel which is what really works well on clover and the type you mentioned, and or Rhomene or straight 2, 4d you can get better control of the weeds.

People in your case are really NOT a threat to our business. I can tell you who is. The 30 landscape maintenance companies in my town of 15k people, who aren't licensed for anything and yet they do commercial work and apply pesticides at apartments and commercial properties. I am only one of six in my county who is licensed and none of them are the business who work in my town applying pesticides, the illegal ones are. I called the pesticide division in Oregon and told them I am going to report a lot of these people , but even when the economy was good, they had limited staff and I believe only one inspector for at least 5 counties. More or less they told me I can file an anonymous complaint and they will contact the persons/companies, and warn them but that is it. UNless they can really catch them in the act it is tough for them to pursue. Now with the bad economy and state cuts there will probably be less monitoring and they even cut the PURS(Pesticide Reporting System) system out, which was just another bureaucratic agency that was really redundant. They wanted ANYONE using any pesticides to keep records. While the intent maybe good...

And you know who will get checked up on and fined etc, all the legit companies, because the state pesticide division knows who and where they are. The hacks fly under the radar and again unless caught in the act will get away with things we never could or would and most likely never get inspected.

Anyway, I went off a bit, but this stuff has been fresh on my mind lately and it is pissing me off so I am venting a bit and helping you out.

I am right over the border in Oregon. :waving:

Most of this is common sense and most people who use it, common sense that is, will apply the chemicals properly if they read and of course follow the label. AS most will tell you here and I concur the label is the law, so follow it and you should be ok. I would also call WA. State Pesticide division and tell them what you are planning to do. YOu will find them very helpful and informative. Just don't put them on the defensive or act like you can do what ever you want. You certainly don't come across that way in your posts, so I think you will be ok.


Hugh

Jampinot
08-07-2009, 02:22 AM
Thanks for the info. Is Lawn Weed Killer with Rtu,2,4-d,Dicambia,Bahia the same as Banvel? I put Banvel in Google and found information for Dicambia which is also a broad leaf weed killer. Otherwise, where would I be able to find Banvel or do I have to buy it online? I wish I could just use something that I could get at Home Depot. It is funny because the people who work in the gardening section at the one I go to are always telling me organic ways to treat my lawn and are anti fertilizer, herbicides. I hate applying herbicides because of all the precautions they have on their labels.

I am also assuming that these weed killers are safe to apply to weeds in grass. I actually hate to apply herbicides to my lawn or anyone elses but I am a fanatic about having a perfect lawn. I only wish I could spray all of the neighbors yards because the weeds just blow back into my lawn. However, if I did. most of their lawns would be gone.

I know how you feel about having all the landscapers who are not licensed are out there doing illegal things. I hired a guy to put in my new lawn after I killed mine with Round Up per his instructions. The guy did a crappy job when he thatched my lawn. He was suppose to bring in enough compost to level the lawn which he had to do twice. He broke two of my sprinklers and took over 3 months to finally finish the job. When he spread the see the first time he didn't cover it at all which he said he was going to do. I was so upset with all the work that I had to do that I turned him into the BBB and got 1/3 of my money back which just covered what I had paid for in materials. I am sure he is one of those landscapers who illegally apply herbicides. If I ever have anyone do anything again I am checking there licenses.

Like I said I only spray my lawn and one other neighbors who can't physically do it. I receive no compensation, only prayers. These folks have been taken to the cleaners by people who say they will do so much more than they actually do. I do all my own landscaping now since I can't afford to hire someone else anymore.

BTW I lived in Oregon for 45 1/2 years before I moved to Vancouver. I miss the water in Oregon that actually tastes good.

Thanks again and it is okay for you to rant and rave. Everyone needs to do so once in awhile. I just wish people wouldn't jump to conclusions before having all the facts. I call the people whose lawns I help take care of "my customers" instead of my friends because I thought people wouldn't give an answer to a novice.

greendoctor
08-07-2009, 02:23 AM
I will second the "Ortho Chickweed, Oxalis. and Clover Killer". It contains something different from common Weed-B-Gon. Banvel will also work, but when the label says no more than 8 ounces per acre in a lawn containing trees, they mean it. It is usually sold in a 21/2 gallon bottle which will treat 40 acres at that rate. How nice of you to help someone who truly needs it. Payment in cookies and brownies is not in the same league as the people who drive around in my town. Weedeaters and lawnmowers tied to a pipe rack, with a "home cheapo" sprayer tied to the same, $25 dollars a cut, cost you $5 dollars extra to "spray weeds". I probably got about 100 as my competition as well as legit companies whose employees would be doing the same thing if they did not have a legal job, but it does not upset me too much. I am taking yet another account from these kind of guys. The lawn in question is patchy and full of weeds. How this happens is when the lawn care person does not fertilize, does not know how to do proper weed control and is not monitoring the irrigation system.

Think Green
08-07-2009, 09:39 PM
Jampinot,
I am with Riggle, and GreenDoctor!!!
We try to be careful to whom we share advice with. I is admireable that you are eager to help those in need, especially the elderly!
Some years ago, when I was just a teen, I was mowing in my neighborhood for an elderly person. I was there with my push mower, tied to the back of a moped. The customer handed me a sprayer with a liquid in it and said, " When you are finished weed-whacking, spray this around the perimeter of my property to kill the grass from coming back." Duh!! Ok! That was back in the early 70's, and this city wasn't under the pressure's of having 6 State Plant Board officials whom monitor the targeted neighborhoods in search for the boy on the bicycle and the man on disability from breaking the State Pesticide Law's.
All I am saying, is when you have the State breathing down your neck for as long as some of us have, the slightest hint of illegal activity only sends a red flag to the nerve in my neck---------------STOP!!!!!
I provide services to the elderly, which make up 30% of our work load each week. They are the best and sometimes most generous customers we could ever ask for. The true legitimate customers know the laws, and know what you can or can't do. If they act any different, then maybe it is time to inform them......... Don't get caught red handed.
Sometimes, the first offense is light and often given with a slap on the wrist, but the second or third offense isn't so nice.
Confescation of your equipment and your priviledge license will be revoced. Any tax's associated with the work will be collected!!

Jampinot
08-08-2009, 01:07 AM
I am a nice gal, not a guy. I only spray for one neighbor whose lawn is fairly weed free and they have a lot of pride over their yard (they are in their mid 80's and have painful gout in their hands, arms and legs). For the others they just want their lawn mowed and fed twice a year.You have to be careful about pesticides, especailly in parts of Canada... don't get yourself in trouble for being a nice guy.

Granular weed controls are pretty ineffective. Spraying is the way to go.

Jampinot
08-08-2009, 01:39 AM
THanks for the info. I will hunt down the Ortho. I am more concerned about my own lawn and my one senior friend who is handicapped. They had their Grandson taking care of their lawn until he moved away. They call me their adopted Granddaughter and if some stranger were to ask them (if the State of Washington is worried about me) they would say I was their Granddaughter (I'm telling them now). No one can take my riding mower away. It is on its last legs and I buy just the cheapo sprayers every couple of years for about $25.

I am not taking away anyones business since I am a volunteer who is helping friends save money for their food. If I could I would do more since they are in their mid 80's and still try and clean their own gutters (I have someone clean my roof and gutters).

Whitey4
08-08-2009, 12:14 PM
THanks for the info. I will hunt down the Ortho. I am more concerned about my own lawn and my one senior friend who is handicapped. They had their Grandson taking care of their lawn until he moved away. They call me their adopted Granddaughter and if some stranger were to ask them (if the State of Washington is worried about me) they would say I was their Granddaughter (I'm telling them now). No one can take my riding mower away. It is on its last legs and I buy just the cheapo sprayers every couple of years for about $25.

I am not taking away anyones business since I am a volunteer who is helping friends save money for their food. If I could I would do more since they are in their mid 80's and still try and clean their own gutters (I have someone clean my roof and gutters).

I was not critisizing, just trying to make you aware of the laws... and by all means, I think what you are doing is a fine thing. There is an obvious sensitivity here to the many people who do compete with us illeaglly, and come in posing as home owners looking for free advice.

ArTurf
08-08-2009, 12:46 PM
I can understand where you are coming from so I am not going to give you the drill on legalities. You have good intentions. For instance, lets say a product calls for 1.3 oz per 1000 Sq feet, there is no practical way you can apply this without the properly calibrated equipment which would cost you more than you would want to know. The thing is there is a lot to herbicide application. You can do a lot more harm than good. So it is probably best that you hire someone with the proper knowledge & equpment otherwise you could cost someone thousands in a new lawn to save a few hundred dollars.

Jampinot
08-09-2009, 10:00 AM
I have a 1400 sq ft. lawn and did the math and came out with 1.75 per 1400 sq. foot. I have a cup that measures ounces which I will put in my sprayer with the amount of water per gallon which the instructions will tell me. I am smarter than you think I am and will save $100's of dollars by doing this myself. I have applied many herbicides by reading the directions and have never hurt my lawn or anything else I have sprayed. I am not a dumb woman who can't follow directions. I do my lawn first before my neighbors and will come back to this thread after applying the Ortho to give you my results!I can understand where you are coming from so I am not going to give you the drill on legalities. You have good intentions. For instance, lets say a product calls for 1.3 oz per 1000 Sq feet, there is no practical way you can apply this without the properly calibrated equipment which would cost you more than you would want to know. The thing is there is a lot to herbicide application. You can do a lot more harm than good. So it is probably best that you hire someone with the proper knowledge & equpment otherwise you could cost someone thousands in a new lawn to save a few hundred dollars.

greendoctor
08-09-2009, 06:40 PM
I have a 1400 sq ft. lawn and did the math and came out with 1.75 per 1400 sq. foot. I have a cup that measures ounces which I will put in my sprayer with the amount of water per gallon which the instructions will tell me. I am smarter than you think I am and will save $100's of dollars by doing this myself. I have applied many herbicides by reading the directions and have never hurt my lawn or anything else I have sprayed. I am not a dumb woman who can't follow directions. I do my lawn first before my neighbors and will come back to this thread after applying the Ortho to give you my results!

If you are indeed applying according to the square footage and not per gallon, then I congratulate you. BTW, have you done blank runs to determine how much water you need to cover 1400 sq ft? From there, it is easy to figure out how much herbicide to measure out.