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View Full Version : Keep an eye on N


rcreech
08-15-2009, 09:46 PM
Don't want to start anything here on fert prices...but just so you know, I got a price on 28-0-0 for the farm last week and again yesterday and it is starting to creep up. They were predicting this on the ag side and say it is going to continue to creep up!

What does this mean......?

Dunno!

Keep an eye on the ball I guess.

I am once again stocking up with several other Lawnsite members as it is lower then I have ever bought right now!

I LITERALLY can't be screwing up as it can't really drop much more unless the world falls apart!



Just an idea...but a good one (suppliers will hate this).

Me and several other guys in my area (and a couple here on LS) are grouping our orders together. This is called a buying group on the ag side. Instead of me going to a supplier and ordering 30 ton of pre I can now go to the table with 60 ton of pre. Same thing on chems and other fert. Volume speaks!

You can save several dollars/unit and this will help to get better pricing and to compete with the big boys (if needed). Really adds up!!!!!

Makes a big difference and everybody wins!

FdLLawnMan
08-15-2009, 11:08 PM
That's weird because my local Ad supplier told me about 3 weeks ago that he figures N will be lower next spring than it is now.

I can't volume buy because I am the only one in my area using the fertilizer blends I use. I am going to use a lot of UMAXX and UFLEXX next year. I tried it this year and was extremely pleased with results. The only Polycoat I will buy for next year will be Duration if Wisconsin gives it the ok.

rcreech
08-15-2009, 11:23 PM
That's weird because my local Ad supplier told me about 3 weeks ago that he figures N will be lower next spring than it is now.

I can't volume buy because I am the only one in my area using the fertilizer blends I use. I am going to use a lot of UMAXX and UFLEXX next year. I tried it this year and was extremely pleased with results. The only Polycoat I will buy for next year will be Duration if Wisconsin gives it the ok.

Mike,

You may have made my point! I don't think anyone knows. If a nuke is dropped or Obama keeps up his crap yada yada anything can happen!

N is cheaper right now then it was 4 years ago. There isn't much downward movement left unless they are going to give it to us.

I shouldn't have said JUST ag.....either.

I have been working with 3 vendors on our turf fert and they all think the fert market is at the BOTTOM also.

I just stated ag as they think so and it is showing an increase.

It just can't go much lower. So even if we are not AT the bottom, we are very very close.

I am willing to role the dice and LOCK IN MY PROFITS.

Right now...I will make (or increase net) about $9,000 more next year just by buying my fert now! Could I wait and see if I could do better????

Maybe...but there is also another way it can go!

No brainer to me!

I have learned Many Many times to not be greedy and lock and a great profit when possible.

Too many times have I waited on the "next nickel" in the grain market just to watch it drop a dollar or fifty cents. :dizzy:

So in a sense...that nickel can cost you $1,000's!!!!

whoopassonthebluegrass
08-15-2009, 11:30 PM
Crap. I'm still paying the same price for N that I have been all year. How much of a drop are you guys seeing?

Stillwater
08-16-2009, 12:02 AM
Don't tell the kenyan

FdLLawnMan
08-16-2009, 01:10 AM
Rodney, if I could afford to buy it now I would. I am just not in that situation with my cash flow right now. I hope to be able to buy it later this year.

kirk1701
08-16-2009, 08:19 AM
Mike,

You may have made my point! I don't think anyone knows. If a nuke is dropped or Obama keeps up his crap yada yada anything can happen!



All I can say is, your absolutely correct my friend :drinkup:

911 anniversary is just around the corner and alkida or however it's spelt has done said Obama will be tested in his first year in office :dizzy:

rcreech
08-16-2009, 10:44 PM
Rodney, if I could afford to buy it now I would. I am just not in that situation with my cash flow right now. I hope to be able to buy it later this year.

I totally understand...but you can always borrow it!!!

Do you think I am paying cash for it? :cry:

How are things going up North for ya? Having a good year?

rcreech
08-16-2009, 10:48 PM
Crap. I'm still paying the same price for N that I have been all year. How much of a drop are you guys seeing?

At the beginning of the the year...a 30-0-10(50% SCU) was well over $17. Now I have quotes for under $12 for a VERY SIMILAR product.

I am still using my $12 fert from 2 years ago. :)

You need to check around there man.

Getting quotes for Pre right now that are even less then the 30%N!

Life is good!

whoopassonthebluegrass
08-17-2009, 12:19 AM
Unreal. Feed grade urea is costing me $16.75 ... 25-5-10 w/3%Fe is at $18.50...


:hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead:

That's what I get for actually TRUSTING my supplier to continue to take care of me. I used to shop around. He always did me right. So I gave him my loyalty and :cry::cry::cry::cry:

FdLLawnMan
08-17-2009, 12:33 AM
I asked at my local Co-Op a couple of weeks ago for a price and he said it was $400.00 a ton for Urea, un-bagged. I can't wait for my late fall application, Ka-Ching.

Grandview
08-17-2009, 06:10 AM
The coop I deal with said Urea was 380.00 and coming down. Potash is dropping also. Fall will be good. Need rain.

Grandview
08-17-2009, 08:24 AM
Just checked an invoice from last October. Urea 860.00/Ton. WOW.

rcreech
08-18-2009, 10:47 PM
Talked to a supplier today and also my banker (Farm Credit) and here is the scoop.

N is up slightly from last month and expected to rise
P is going up
K is coming down

Is this a trend or a blip?

I think it is time to fill the barn boys!

Dunno...but just sharing what I know and have heard.

Have fun!

Josh.S
08-19-2009, 09:30 AM
Unreal. Feed grade urea is costing me $16.75 ... 25-5-10 w/3%Fe is at $18.50...


:hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead:

That's what I get for actually TRUSTING my supplier to continue to take care of me. I used to shop around. He always did me right. So I gave him my loyalty and :cry::cry::cry::cry:

I just talked to my supplier and straight urea (bagged) comes in @ 12.85 --- water soluble is $14.00 --- those prices are delivered.

whoopassonthebluegrass
08-19-2009, 11:26 AM
Time to start shopping around... again...

Josh.S
08-19-2009, 01:10 PM
Time to start shopping around... again...

I have always been using 2-3 suppliers since I started. I would love to be loyal to one but I'm always worried that their prices are bad. For example, from ATS I just got a quote on Bifen, they wanted $72 per gallon plus delivery. I called another supplier and they would do it for $54 delivered.

rcreech
08-19-2009, 03:19 PM
I just talked to my supplier and straight urea (bagged) comes in @ 12.85 --- water soluble is $14.00 --- those prices are delivered.

That is still pretty high for urea.

I can get a 39-0-0 50% SCU for a lot less then that.

I personally would never use urea on a lawn!

If you understand how turf grows...it really isn't a good product to use unless the turf is dormant.

PLUS...it sucks to spread!

Josh.S
08-19-2009, 04:38 PM
That is still pretty high for urea.

I can get a 39-0-0 50% SCU for a lot less then that.

I personally would never use urea on a lawn!

If you understand how turf grows...it really isn't a good product to use unless the turf is dormant.

PLUS...it sucks to spread!

I agree that it is somewhat high. That is pallet price and I didn't bargain with him or anything. Besides, I would only spread urea as a winterizer.

lawnspecialties
08-19-2009, 05:54 PM
For what it's worth.

My fertilizer prices for this fall are about 28% lower than last year. My fescue prices are almost half lower than last year. payup

americanlawn
08-19-2009, 06:06 PM
I heard from suppliers that N might increase in price slightly by the end of this month. They are not positive, and I certainly don't know.

Got 4500 gallons of 16-2-2 yesterday from Nutra-Flo. Paid just under $2.00 per gallon (way cheaper than a year ago when it was over $3.50 per gallon).

Recently got a quote for 44-0-0 25% UFLEXX at $13.90 per bag (cheap). Truckload price (22 ton per truck). Not sure how it stacks up against XCU, but I'm figuring it's close regarding quality, etc.

We hit most lawns this spring with .10 Dimension TWICE, and we're now seeing new crabgrass breakthrough in thin areas, etc. ???? But foxtail probs seem to have been taken care of. Not sure what PRE product we'll use next spring, but applying PRE twice is costly.

I like Rodney's thinking. We have 5 or 6 guys who buy from us cuz we sell it cheaper than if they bought it themselves. I'm sure suppliers hate this. :laugh:

FdLLawnMan
08-19-2009, 07:06 PM
That is still pretty high for urea.

I can get a 39-0-0 50% SCU for a lot less then that.

I personally would never use urea on a lawn!

If you understand how turf grows...it really isn't a good product to use unless the turf is dormant.

PLUS...it sucks to spread!

Rodney

I assume you mean straight urea as your 39-0-0 is 50% urea. You say you would never use urea on a lawn! Why do you say that? I spoon fed my lawn a 1/4 lb of liquid urea every 10 to 14 days one year and it looked awesome. And I do know how turf grows.

rcreech
08-19-2009, 09:06 PM
Rodney

I assume you mean straight urea as your 39-0-0 is 50% urea. You say you would never use urea on a lawn! Why do you say that? I spoon fed my lawn a 1/4 lb of liquid urea every 10 to 14 days one year and it looked awesome. And I do know how turf grows.

Mike,

I don't use urea for several reasons. High N conc can cause more burn, too much growth, sucks to spread....and I want slow release on apps.

I was talking about going out and applying 46-0-0. What I was saying is...you don't want that kind of rapid growth anytime and it must ONLY be applied to dormant turf or you could be asking for trouble. If using a slow release formula or "spoon feed" a fast release then that is fine!

I was assuming that everyone knew that all products we use are urea based...but I am talking STRIGHT urea.

You make a great point about spoon feeding! That is where my slow release is coming in for me. I make less apps with longer feedings.

I guess I was assuming that people on here would know what I meant.

Sorry for the confusion!

fl-landscapes
08-19-2009, 09:09 PM
Crap. I'm still paying the same price for N that I have been all year. How much of a drop are you guys seeing?


Im with you I know lesco hasnt dropped a dime (jdl oops)

FdLLawnMan
08-19-2009, 09:32 PM
Mike,

I don't use urea for several reasons. High N conc can cause more burn, too much growth, sucks to spread....and I want slow release on apps.

I was talking about going out and applying 46-0-0. What I was saying is...you don't want that kind of rapid growth anytime and it must ONLY be applied to dormant turf or you could be asking for trouble. If using a slow release formula or "spoon feed" a fast release then that is fine!

I was assuming that everyone knew that all products we use are urea based...but I am talking STRIGHT urea.

You make a great point about spoon feeding! That is where my slow release is coming in for me. I make less apps with longer feedings.

I guess I was assuming that people on here would know what I meant.

Sorry for the confusion!

I figured you knew that Rodney. I just didn't want some guys on here to get the wrong impression from your answer. I myself used 3 different slow release fertilizers this year so far. I used two SCU products from JDL, one was a 100% slow release and one was a 96% slow release. The other fert I used was UMAXX from Agrotain. After seeing the results this year I will be applying a lot of UMAXX and UFLEXX next year. The results were fantastic. The UMAXX lasted at least 12 weeks. I was just on some lawns today thay I hadn't been on since late May since they are 3 step customers. They still had good color and were very healthy looking. I just talked to my supplier and will be getting prices next week. I have to get rid of at least 10 pallets of fertilizer before I can order any more for next year.

rcreech
08-19-2009, 09:45 PM
I figured you knew that Rodney. I just didn't want some guys on here to get the wrong impression from your answer. I myself used 3 different slow release fertilizers this year so far. I used two SCU products from JDL, one was a 100% slow release and one was a 96% slow release. The other fert I used was UMAXX from Agrotain. After seeing the results this year I will be applying a lot of UMAXX and UFLEXX next year. The results were fantastic. The UMAXX lasted at least 12 weeks. I was just on some lawns today thay I hadn't been on since late May since they are 3 step customers. They still had good color and were very healthy looking. I just talked to my supplier and will be getting prices next week. I have to get rid of at least 10 pallets of fertilizer before I can order any more for next year.

Mike,

You got the secret. Many try and go cheap and never learn this!!! I will buy a high N 50% slow release all day and kick most's butts!

I see and hear people compare slow release formulations all the time and it is kinda like splitting frog hairs to me.

If a product lasts 8-10 weeks I don't care what type of slow release it is.

Glad you found the sweet spot!

Once you can find a program that seperates you from the competition it is...sit back and count the money coming in.

I am pretty much in cruise control right now with my program as it is kicking butt!

The best advertisement is your work!!!!!

ted putnam
08-20-2009, 09:15 AM
Crap. I'm still paying the same price for N that I have been all year. How much of a drop are you guys seeing?

I'm with you there! No big changes here since the first of the year. Maybe Trickle Down Economics hasn't trickled down from Ohio yet. :laugh: