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kirk1701
08-16-2009, 08:53 AM
Hey guys (& Ladies),
I have noticed some spots of Bermudagrass coming up in the yard, couple of which I have done pulled and others I have just rubbed on some MSDA which of course killed it.

However; with the temps above 90 where they are right now I don't want to spray 2,4-D so other then pulling (which leaves a bald spot) or MSDA how can I rid myself of this before the problem worsens?

Jason Rose
08-16-2009, 11:15 AM
What?

Bermuda, MSDA?, 2-4D? What's MSDA? 2-4D will have no effect on bermuda, reguardless of temps. Pulling it really dosn't work unless you can dig deep enough to get ALL of the roots out.

Turflon Ester is a good option for suppression of Bermuda in cool season turf. If you want to really slow it down, and potentially KILL it, mix Acclaim in with the Turflon Ester. I've done this in my own lawn and can tell you it does work. Much better than just the TE alone.

The only other option is a non-selective herbicide (round-up). But unless you start the kill out process early, and spray the spots several times over the summer as it comes back, your chances of having a 100% kill are slim, and it will likely re-appear the next summer.

kirk1701
08-16-2009, 04:04 PM
What?

Bermuda, MSDA?, 2-4D? What's MSDA? 2-4D will have no effect on bermuda, reguardless of temps. Pulling it really dosn't work unless you can dig deep enough to get ALL of the roots out.

Turflon Ester is a good option for suppression of Bermuda in cool season turf. If you want to really slow it down, and potentially KILL it, mix Acclaim in with the Turflon Ester. I've done this in my own lawn and can tell you it does work. Much better than just the TE alone.

The only other option is a non-selective herbicide (round-up). But unless you start the kill out process early, and spray the spots several times over the summer as it comes back, your chances of having a 100% kill are slim, and it will likely re-appear the next summer.

Sorry Jason, meant MSMA :sleeping:
I was still half asleep at the time I posted.

Thanks for the info

kirk1701
08-20-2009, 02:56 PM
What?

Bermuda, MSDA?, 2-4D? What's MSDA? 2-4D will have no effect on bermuda, reguardless of temps. Pulling it really dosn't work unless you can dig deep enough to get ALL of the roots out.

Turflon Ester is a good option for suppression of Bermuda in cool season turf. If you want to really slow it down, and potentially KILL it, mix Acclaim in with the Turflon Ester. I've done this in my own lawn and can tell you it does work. Much better than just the TE alone.

The only other option is a non-selective herbicide (round-up). But unless you start the kill out process early, and spray the spots several times over the summer as it comes back, your chances of having a 100% kill are slim, and it will likely re-appear the next summer.

OK just now getting back to answer this a bit further. (busy week)

Anyhow, is Turflon Easter & Trimec the same thing? I'm pretty sure it's not but I maybe just getting the two confused so I wanted to ask. At same time, which would be better to kill Bermuda? I just mowed this morning and noticing more and more Bermuda with a few spots of foxtail and something else I have not identified yet, looks like a vine and creps low to the ground I'll get pics.

This question also came from anthoer thread here (http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=286913), as I didn't want to Hi-jack a thread. :waving:

kirk1701
08-20-2009, 03:18 PM
UPDATE!
I know you guys love a good laugh so :drinkup:
I called Southern States to see if they carried TE; me knowing how the guys down there are I already had the label for TE pulled up on my PC, had some other links pulled up and first thing he asked was what were the active ingredients :laugh:

Me tabs on over to the PDF, starts reading and he says the only thing he would have close to this would be MSMA and he's out of that right now so I tell him I have some here, he asks what the label on it says so I tell him yadie yadie bla bla and he starts searching the internet.

Sit down here's the punch line.

THE GUY STARTS READING BACK THIS VERY THREAD TO ME :laugh:

Falcon50EX
08-20-2009, 05:56 PM
Hey guys (& Ladies),
I have noticed some spots of Bermudagrass coming up in the yard, couple of which I have done pulled and others I have just rubbed on some MSDA which of course killed it.

However; with the temps above 90 where they are right now I don't want to spray 2,4-D so other then pulling (which leaves a bald spot) or MSDA how can I rid myself of this before the problem worsens?

Fusilade II it took about a week or so but after 2 week i can see the Bermuda going away in Zoisa. rate .07-.14 per 1000sq ft Plus .32 nonionic surfactant

This has worked for me
Cost for 32oz 69$ at the high rate you can get 228 aps

grass4gas
08-20-2009, 05:57 PM
Make sure it is a true ester, and not a blend with 2-4D in it. The 2-4D knocks out the benefits that the acclaim provides.

kirk1701
08-20-2009, 06:21 PM
Make sure it is a true ester, and not a blend with 2-4D in it. The 2-4D knocks out the benefits that the acclaim provides.

Actually, I was awaiting a reply to ask just that. Think the Turflon Easter will just take care of the Bermuda right? I still have foxtail in places so I was going to ask about mixing 2,4-D with the Turflon to get the broadband weeds and anything else and if that was possible?

Or is that the benefits that the acclaim?

and yes, wanted to spray next week while forecast is predicting low to mid 80's :drinkup:

grass4gas
08-20-2009, 10:12 PM
The turflon ester and acclaim are a 1-2 punch with extra kick.

I'm not sure how well acclaim works on foxtail. I have been using MSMA for foxtail and dallisgrass control.

If it is straigt 2-4d, I would think you are OK in mixing with the turflon ester. However, I would use Chaser from CPS. It is an ester formulation that has 2-4d in it. Momentum FX from JDL is also a good product to use.

Jason Rose
08-20-2009, 11:45 PM
Sheesh... The guy was trying to pass off MSMA as a substitute for the Turflon Ester you were asking for. That's sad... Turflon Ester is actually a BROADLEAF weed herbicide, it just has the nice extra benifit of being able to "supress" bermudagrass, bascially by just making it sick. It only knocks it back for about a month, so over the summer you really need to make an application of TE every month while the bermuda is actively growing.

Now, adding Acclaim to the mix, like grass4gas said, kicks it up a notch. The two mixed together will pretty much kill bermuda. over a summer, if you treat it as you find it, you can likely rid the lawn of it in one season. Acclaim is a grassy weed herbicide.

You can also spray the mix on general weeds, broadleaf and grassy, and it works well on them as well, obviously. Foxtail, however, is a much harder to kill weed once it's fully grown. I don't believe Acclaim will do it.

Mixing 2-4D in with your mix to supress/kill bermuda is going to give you no benifits at all. You start mixing up a mess like that and you may increase your risk of injuring the lawn too.

The trouble you may have is FINDING Acclaim. It's not something the local garden center is going to have. It's really a professional product. You can find it in pint bottles at Lesco/John Deere landscapes, for about $100, for the pint. But not every place carries the pints, they only sell it by the gallon. Do the math there... Expensive product, and a SMALL amount goes a long ways.

kirk1701
08-21-2009, 12:11 AM
ahh, thanks for the details Jason I understand a bit better now so, sounds like I wouldn't broadcast spray this but rather spot spraying just the bermuda spots as I find then with the Turflon Ester/Acclaim mix?

Spot spray my 2,4-D separately for foxtail, crabgrass, ect. Also as I see it.

Yea, as for Southern States that is pretty much typical any time I've went in there so I used to take their advice, last year ended up spaying fescue in 95-100 degree weather with MSMA mixed at 2.5 oz per gallon :hammerhead:

AS PER THEIR INSTRUCTIONS!!!

Took me a while but now when I go in there I don't ask for their advice, I go to get what I go for to start with or I don't buy period. :walking:

Jason Rose
08-21-2009, 12:19 AM
And 2-4D won't do anything against foxtail and crabgrass either.

Don't ever go by what someone just tells you to mix something at. I'm not going to give out rates on here because I don't have the LABEL in front of me so I don't want to mis-quote. It's easy to read the label yourself, though most of the time you have to break out the math and do some calculations to convert the rate on the label to the rate you need. (ie, they tell you X ounces of product per acre, and you are spraying a few thousand square feet with a hand sprayer.) Or the crappy labels, like turflon ester, that tell you in pints and tablespoons, rather than OUNCES.

kirk1701
08-21-2009, 12:55 AM
2,4-D has been doing the trick for me on foxtail and crabgrass.

MSMA on nutsedge

and now OH ME!!
Just what I was looking for, more herbicides :dizzy:

YES I almost went with the sledgehammer for nutsedge so before I run out and buy Turflon Ester/Acclaim and spend $200; being the temps are in the 80's here next week I do have a chance to spray MSMA is it worth a shot (spot spray) or an I wasting the herb?

By the way, avoid confusion I've been painting on the MSMA not spraying.

kirk1701
08-21-2009, 12:51 PM
OK Everyone I got some pic's for yu today.

First 4 are the what is this weed?

kirk1701
08-21-2009, 12:53 PM
Next 3 are what I assume to be Foxtail?

Anyone disagree?

kirk1701
08-21-2009, 12:57 PM
And here, I'm sure this is bermuda which I assume I'm going to have to pull/round-up or something other then spending $150 just to kill off 1 particular weed? :cry:

That much being said, sugestions? I assume 2,4-D for foxtail and whatever that other weed is?

kirk1701
08-21-2009, 04:37 PM
Fusilade II it took about a week or so but after 2 week i can see the Bermuda going away in Zoisa. rate .07-.14 per 1000sq ft Plus .32 nonionic surfactant

This has worked for me
Cost for 32oz 69$ at the high rate you can get 228 aps

We'll, got a call back from Southern States today and I got the message that this is what he's recomending.

All he said was Fusilade so it could be FusiladeDX or FusiladeII we will see.

However it was $200 a gallon

Falcon50EX
08-21-2009, 04:56 PM
We'll, got a call back from Southern States today and I got the message that this is what he's recomending.

All he said was Fusilade so it could be FusiladeDX or FusiladeII we will see.

However it was $200 a gallon


NO NO You can get a 32oz's for 69$ a gallon would last you a very long time at .10oz per gal and the cost.

kirk1701
08-21-2009, 05:36 PM
NO NO You can get a 32oz's for 69$ a gallon would last you a very long time at .10oz per gal and the cost.

See, now thats more in by budget.

Expecting a callback from SS however they probably want to sell me a gallon so, I can probably google it and find it but if you all know right where to go, link would be nice.

$69 I can do; $200 is just way out of my budget.

greendoctor
08-22-2009, 02:56 AM
Fusilade DX also has no instructions for use on turf and ornamentals. Are the people at SS that dumb? :hammerhead: $68 for correctly labeled FusiladeII sounds right and it will treat 8 acres of lawn at 4 oz/acre. Do you have a CPS/Agrium in your area? I do and the level of professionalism is miles above what I have been hearing about your vendor. It is a sad statement on their product knowledge that they do not know what Turflon Ester is and they are trying to sell you MSMA to spray on your fescue lawn. There are two local fertilizer vendor that do not know their product and are always "steering" me to common, cheap chemicals that I know will not work. If I am asking for something it is because that is what will work, not what the "landscapers" and illegal yardmen buy.:gunsfirin Needless to say they do not have my business. I will go where I do not have some cubicle rat telling me how to treat a lawn when I know quite well he has never done it himself.

kirk1701
08-22-2009, 11:04 AM
Fusilade DX also has no instructions for use on turf and ornamentals. Are the people at SS that dumb? :hammerhead: $68 for correctly labeled FusiladeII sounds right and it will treat 8 acres of lawn at 4 oz/acre. Do you have a CPS/Agrium in your area? I do and the level of professionalism is miles above what I have been hearing about your vendor. It is a sad statement on their product knowledge that they do not know what Turflon Ester is and they are trying to sell you MSMA to spray on your fescue lawn. There are two local fertilizer vendor that do not know their product and are always "steering" me to common, cheap chemicals that I know will not work. If I am asking for something it is because that is what will work, not what the "landscapers" and illegal yardmen buy.:gunsfirin Needless to say they do not have my business. I will go where I do not have some cubicle rat telling me how to treat a lawn when I know quite well he has never done it himself.

I think the guys at my local SS are more geared toward farm and agricultural needs, not the small homeowner or licensed applicator. Everytime I've went in the place it's farm hands and people like that and they cater to them and their needs.

So I can't really say if they are "Just that stupid" or not equiped to handle the lawn and garden needs (or don't want to). For that reason, and the fact they try to play you down and sell you BS I go in prepared, do my reseach here ahead of time and buy what I went in there for to start with or walk out empty if they don't have it.

Also learned to call them now rather then making the drive over :drinkup:

CPS/Agrium?? Have never heard that term yet so don't belive I have.

Back to Turflon Ester Vs FusiladeII:
I know someone said FusiladeII cab be purchased for under $60 so I'm wondering; I can get TE HERE (http://www.yardlover.com/turflon-ester-pint) for under $50 so if someone can give me a answer I'm ordering today.

Go for it; or can anyone provide a link to a cheaper price and is this enough to do what I need? 15-20,000 SQ FT

greendoctor
08-22-2009, 04:51 PM
A pint of TE is only good for one application to 20,000 sq ft. When dealing with bermuda contamination in a lawn, I have had to spray at least 3-4 times 30 days apart. You are better off finding this in a gallon size. This herbicide is, as other posters mentioned a very effective broadleaf herbicide. It is extremely effective on spurge, oxalis, clover, and wild violets. What it does to bermuda is simply a happy side effect.

kirk1701
08-22-2009, 05:16 PM
A pint of TE is only good for one application to 20,000 sq ft. When dealing with bermuda contamination in a lawn, I have had to spray at least 3-4 times 30 days apart. You are better off finding this in a gallon size. This herbicide is, as other posters mentioned a very effective broadleaf herbicide. It is extremely effective on spurge, oxalis, clover, and wild violets. What it does to bermuda is simply a happy side effect.

Here's the thing Green doc

$$$

I can get a pint now and since the problem is only in the front (10k or 12k SQ FT) that might do me through this year and then get the rest next spring?

Since I'm coming up on the aerating, fall renovation thats going to be a large chunk of the $$$$ there so will a pint do me?

Second, do I really need the Acclaim or can I get by without it till next year?

greendoctor
08-23-2009, 04:13 AM
A pint of TE will do the 10-12,000 twice. This is not something I would "spot spray" Yes, you do need either Acclaim or Fusilade with the TE. That is the University tested and golf course verified treatment protocol. A pint of Acclaim goes a long way as well. I would prefer Acclaim over Fusilade on turfgrasses, there is better tolerance. A good plan would be to hit the lawn with the mix twice this year and start up again next early summer. Observe the restrictions on seasons of application. I know both Acclaim and Fusilade are not good on fescue in hot weather.

foreplease
08-23-2009, 09:49 AM
UPDATE!
I know you guys love a good laugh so :drinkup:
I called Southern States to see if they carried TE; me knowing how the guys down there are I already had the label for TE pulled up on my PC, had some other links pulled up and first thing he asked was what were the active ingredients :laugh:

Me tabs on over to the PDF, starts reading and he says the only thing he would have close to this would be MSMA and he's out of that right now so I tell him I have some here, he asks what the label on it says so I tell him yadie yadie bla bla and he starts searching the internet.

Sit down here's the punch line.

THE GUY STARTS READING BACK THIS VERY THREAD TO ME :laugh:

That really is one of the funniest things I have ever read on lawnsite!

Jason Rose
08-23-2009, 10:49 AM
That really is one of the funniest things I have ever read on lawnsite!

Too bad he didn't see this thread a few days later. He could have LEARNED SOMETHING!

kirk1701
08-23-2009, 11:58 AM
Too bad he didn't see this thread a few days later. He could have LEARNED SOMETHING!

Makes yu wonder don't it? LOL

greendoctor & foreplease
I'm almost to the point of wondering if I'd be better off (cheaper) to just get one of you guys locally from the phone book and see if they will do one or two applications on this?

As long as it's not Truegreen :drinkup:

Opinions?

greendoctor
08-23-2009, 11:18 PM
Too bad I am so far away. You would probably be better off having your lawn cared for by a professional. Not only would a pro know what to apply to your lawn, he would also know when and how to do it. It might even cost less than if you were to acquire all of the chemicals and equipment to do this properly. Not going with TG is probably a safe bet. I would try to find a local LCO, preferably an owner/operator. That is what I am, I do not sit at a desk 6:00 to 3:00 ordering other people around that have no idea what they are doing.

foreplease
08-24-2009, 12:24 AM
Kirk:
I don't think I am nearly as qualified as greendoctor. Caring for athletic fields is my gig. Now if you need a 95' infield radius cut around your yard, or a soccer practice unexpectedly breaks out in your front yard, I could be your guy :) Owner/operator here too.

kirk1701
08-24-2009, 01:01 AM
Too bad I am so far away. You would probably be better off having your lawn cared for by a professional. Not only would a pro know what to apply to your lawn, he would also know when and how to do it. It might even cost less than if you were to acquire all of the chemicals and equipment to do this properly. Not going with TG is probably a safe bet. I would try to find a local LCO, preferably an owner/operator. That is what I am, I do not sit at a desk 6:00 to 3:00 ordering other people around that have no idea what they are doing.

Kirk:
I don't think I am nearly as qualified as greendoctor. Caring for athletic fields is my gig. Now if you need a 95' infield radius cut around your yard, or a soccer practice unexpectedly breaks out in your front yard, I could be your guy :) Owner/operator here too.
We'll, I'm actually thinking about doing it, however just for one or two treatments to get rid of the stuff them go from there next season. Keeping in mind, I got $300 in seed in the garage, bags of compost and now have somewhere to get more so I can put a good coat on after the yard gets aerated this fall.

foreplease I have an idea for you thats sure to give you a chuckle :drinkup: I actually built this and used it too back in 1991 while at the time living in Cal. we had a 2.5 acre lot with no tree's and nothing but a walk behind push mower (self propelled). Being a woodworker, I turned a post on the lathe, used pie 3.14 to get the circumference that equaled the cut of the 21" mower. Put me a 45' cable on the post and wrapped it around, connected the other end to the mower and let it go around and around to cut a perfect 90' diameter circle :drinkup:

I sat on the post in the middle of the lot, watched the cable unwind from the post as the mower cut the field. I have video of it somewhere that was converted from VHS but don't know how I'd get it from the DVD to digitalize just 1 or 2 minute clip to put on youtube.

foreplease
08-24-2009, 06:59 AM
I'd sure like to see that. It sounds a lot like the method I use to cut the edge around an infield.

Hey, I think greendoctor - or me - could take care of your place by telephone the rest of this year. One of us could just call you once a week and say "Knock it off."

LOL. Sorry man, just kidding.

kirk1701
08-25-2009, 12:47 AM
I'd sure like to see that. It sounds a lot like the method I use to cut the edge around an infield.

Hey, I think greendoctor - or me - could take care of your place by telephone the rest of this year. One of us could just call you once a week and say "Knock it off."

LOL. Sorry man, just kidding.

:laugh:

I have an idea, just might take weeks to find the video on 1 of the 15 DVD's I had converted from VHS tapes. I can play the clip on the TV while recording with my camera then upload that to youtube?

I have to admit, for bing fresh out of high school and for that era (1991) it was pretty neat idea.

kirk1701
08-25-2009, 04:56 PM
BUMP

Trying to get a price online for Turflon Ester and Acclaim/Fusilade II and running into some snags.

Hoping you guys can help me out and answer a few questions. I found a pint bottle of TE here. (http://www.yardlover.com/turflon-ester-pint) However I'm also wondering if there is a difference between the manufacturer? You guys say DOW and all I can find is Monterey???

2. Fusilade II?? Think is out of my reach as:
NOTE: Not for use around homes unless applied by licensed applicators. (http://www.gemplers.com/product/G49785/Fusilade-II-Weed-Control-Herbicide-Post-emergent-1-qt)

3. Acclaim? Well I can't find it anywhere not even online?

Any links would be appreciated guys so I can get an idea of just what expense I might be looking at.

lilmarvin4064
08-26-2009, 02:53 PM
BUMP

Trying to get a price online for Turflon Ester and Acclaim/Fusilade II and running into some snags.

Hoping you guys can help me out and answer a few questions. I found a pint bottle of TE here. (http://www.yardlover.com/turflon-ester-pint) However I'm also wondering if there is a difference between the manufacturer? You guys say DOW and all I can find is Monterey???

2. Fusilade II?? Think is out of my reach as:


3. Acclaim? Well I can't find it anywhere not even online?

Any links would be appreciated guys so I can get an idea of just what expense I might be looking at.


Yep, I was just going to mention Fusilade II is not labeled for residential turf use, but Ornamec is (just less concentrated) and easier to mix small quantities. My Bermuda control program consists of 5-6 apps, every 30 days. Ornamec + Turflon ester at greenup, Acclaim + TE the next 3 apps. substituting triclopyr amine when necessary (high temp, low humidity). Last app before dormancy = Ornamec + TE.

I'm just waiting for a residential approved mesotrione + triclopyr product!

oh, and don't forget to use a spreader sticker with Ornamec or Acclaim. I prefer the organosilicone ones.