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designer1
08-17-2009, 10:50 PM
After googling landscape lighting design programsI came across her website.

Has anyone ever attended, if so is it worth it?

I have attended several mfgs seminars only to find them pushing their own products.

I am looking for a real learning experiance not just a 2 day commercial

JoeyD
08-18-2009, 11:01 AM
I have never attended but everyone I know who has has absolutley loved it! It is highly reccomended.

If you are looking for more of a technical than design course we are offering training courses through The LITE Program. visit www.TheLiteProgram.com or let me know if you ave any questions!

Tomwilllight
08-20-2009, 07:47 PM
Hi Designer 1,

I'm one of the faculty for the Landscape Lighting Institute and I assure you will find the experience completely different from any manufacturer's classes.

You will be working with many different manufactures' equipment, not just one. Only with Jan will you have the opportunity to do hands on comparison of a wide variety of equipment.

But the big difference is that this institute is focused on Design... Not the technical.

Jan Moyer is the author of THE LANDSCAPE LIGHTING BOOK and is certainly one of the finest landscape lighting designers working today.. if not the best. As a participant, you will join a group who, together, will select a portion of Dog Park's garden to light in during the session. The last evening we invite the public in to see what the groups have achieved.

Dog Park is Jan's home, office and garden. In the last 10 years, Jan has created a living laboratory for landscape lighting. Nothing like exists anywhere else.

Don't expect to catch up on your sleep, class meets in the morning for workshop and discussion, the afternoons are usually working with your group on your design and then in the evening, we look at the lighting. It's a hands on and work very hard experience.

If you are interested, you should give Jan a call and talk to her about what are her goals for the students.

Tom Williams

BTW: I was Jan's student during the 1st LSLInstitute and the experience opened the door for me.

AztlanLC
08-25-2009, 07:29 PM
about how much does it cost

msouthard
08-29-2009, 02:12 PM
Jan's class is around $2500, I think. I emailed Jan about two weeks ago and they had one slot open for the September course. We are sending one person as we have hear nothing but good things about the course. I think the course is full now and they are not doing the October one but Tom can clarify.

Tomwilllight
08-31-2009, 06:03 AM
I'm flat out with the move to Portland and completing my existing contracts on the East Coast. It's best for you to contact Jan directly. Her office phone is: 518-235-4756.

Tom

David Gretzmier
08-31-2009, 04:42 PM
I looked at all the classrrom group photo's from 2008, and i am sure you guys will throw rocks at me, but I cannot ever recall doing a demo or installing lighting like the training groups set up. most of the up lights are set 15-40 feet away from the drip line of the huge trees and basically flood the outside canopy with what has to be 35-50 watt flood lights. I also am not too sure about flooding the surface of the pond with the 5-6 bullets mounted on 2 foot stems. It is quite possibly the most dark-sky unfriendly photo's I have ever seen. where are the cool moonlighting effects? where are the text book uplighting of cool upswept branches from under the tree to create neat shadowing and light within the tree? Am I missing something here? When did massive number of floodlights shining ON 30-60 foot trees become expert light design?

Lite4
08-31-2009, 11:08 PM
David,
perhaps cutting your own path is always better than trying to ride in the groove of someone else. I like my stuff better than a lot of what I see from the "experts".

Pro-Scapes
09-01-2009, 08:10 AM
I looked at all the classrrom group photo's from 2008, and i am sure you guys will throw rocks at me, but I cannot ever recall doing a demo or installing lighting like the training groups set up. most of the up lights are set 15-40 feet away from the drip line of the huge trees and basically flood the outside canopy with what has to be 35-50 watt flood lights. I also am not too sure about flooding the surface of the pond with the 5-6 bullets mounted on 2 foot stems. It is quite possibly the most dark-sky unfriendly photo's I have ever seen. where are the cool moonlighting effects? where are the text book uplighting of cool upswept branches from under the tree to create neat shadowing and light within the tree? Am I missing something here? When did massive number of floodlights shining ON 30-60 foot trees become expert light design?

It all depends on what your client wants and the site. Everyone has thier own style. I have lost jobs because a client liked the way 250w sodium lights looked better than our mellow low voltage lighting. They also figured they could get 3 sodium lights and be "done" vs my proposed 50 fixtures. Likewise I have taken jobs from multi-state based larger firms because they did not offer the attention to detail nor the subtle effects I do with my downlights. Huge diff between merc vapors and a 20-35w downlight.

David Gretzmier
09-01-2009, 10:51 PM
Ok, maybe I am not so off then. I just really expected a landscape lighting institute, for 2500 bucks for 5 days, that teaches design would be more in line with what I love to see- really well placed uplighting and downlighting, use of shadow, etc. there are several nice statues and trees in the pictures, I really expected 4 different ways to create effects in the photo's rather than just plant a light in front or above.

Alan B
09-02-2009, 09:42 AM
I won't cast any judgement becasue I have not attended the course and maybe the photos from past events don't reflect the design they teach, and everyone speaks highly about the program, but I have to largely agree with David based on the pictures shown.

Also its easy to put lights in grass far way, but you could never really do that a a customers house.

Besides downlighting and the different effects, the hardest part (and the area I see the biggest difference between top guys and others) is incorporating lights into structures (hardscapes, walls, posts, house, gables, porches, ceilings, downlighting, etc.). Having to custom mount, core and feed wire makes install much harder, more expensive but breaks up all the up lighting with a stake just stuck in the ground. Those items take time, require a wealthy client, but help showcase different designs/angles techniques. I would think that would be a great area to go over in a design class. Maybe they do alot of that but don't show it.

Light magic maker
09-12-2009, 10:08 PM
Janet's a legend, what else more is their to say?

Lite4
09-12-2009, 10:59 PM
Janet does have a particular style that is indicative of her own personal tastes, but this is not unlike many in this industry today who are also legendary in their own rite; who's own "signatures" and personal design styles are woven throughout the lighting canvases they paint. When starting out it is always a good idea to lean upon those with experience but eventually you must cut your own path and create your own identity in the work that you do. I know of many in this industry who could establish very successful seminars on lighting design and theory. (and no, I am not talking about myself. I have a long, long way to go before I reach that level!) This is just simply my observation and experience.

Light magic maker
09-13-2009, 12:13 AM
Maybe so , but I can't think of any other "marquis" name in this business besides her. Maybe if more lighting designers were to get exposure like chefs have done we'd come to know more about them and their work. These chefs spend more time on tv then in the kitchens of their own restaurants it seems these days.

Lite4
09-13-2009, 02:55 PM
It's coming around. There have been chefs for many thousands of years but there have only been lighting designers for much less than a single century. It is a fairly new industry and things are slowly evolving. Most in this industry all tip our hat to Janet who really got landscape lighting on the map and has helped bring a large degree of credibility to our profession. However, there are others who can share in this accolade as well.

Tomwilllight
09-20-2009, 11:35 PM
We just finished our third evening at the LLI. The three groups finished their projects. This is the best group of projects I've seen yet. Two of the areas have never been lighted before and the third only once. This is the best work I've seen yet at Dog Park.

The real surprise of the Institute is the quality of the dedicated LED product from a variety of manufacturers.

If you are close enough to get here to see what the groups had done tomorrow evening during the formal presentations, you should come by Dog Park at sunset. Call first to find out about parking.

If you can't make it, the photos will be posted shortly... I'll let you know when and where.

Tom

steveparrott
09-21-2009, 12:20 PM
There have been chefs for many thousands of years but there have only been lighting designers for much less than a single century. It is a fairly new industry and things are slowly evolving.

Of course I know you're referring to low voltage landscape lighting design as a young industry. Outdoor lighting design has been practiced for thousands of years - the profession is quite mature and universities worldwide teach the profession of lighting design.

The advent of low voltage lighting changed the world of green industry professionals because it provided a fairly simple tool for landscape designers to transition into lighting design and to embrace the art - kind of a marriage between landscape design and lighting design. The offspring of this marriage is still young and that's where Jan Moyer comes in as one of the mentors to take landscapers from the painting-by-numbers stage to a stage where the lighting designs exhibit a professional discipline and maturity.

Still, all landscape lighting designers would benefit from looking for other ways to expand their knowledge and deepen their understanding of lighting design. I began my study of lighting design by studying film lighting. Early cinematographers recognized the powerful experiential affects of controlling light and shadow. Using light intensity, contrast and color to evoke emotional responses.

I've always maintained that landscape lighting is closely aligned with film and theatrical lighting with the homeowners as the actors and their activities as dramas played out in scenes. This experiential approach is a powerful way to approach landscape lighting. I worked on films where the director walks on the set and expresses his vision with great confidence, telling exactly how he wants every part and every actor lit - he describes it with passion and detail. The crew listens to every word and does exactly as he says. Once the lighting is set, the director critically examines it from every angle with a highly critical eye. Adjustments are made and the film is shot.

This is how I believe landscape lighters should be - to completely master not just the lighting techniques but also the subtle nuances with attention to the smallest detail. Such mastery is dificult to attain without mentors, but still, much can be learned by browsing through books on all types of lighting, attending not just courses on landscape lighting, but also considering courses on every type of lighting design whether it be architectural, theatrical or even photographic.

Lighting design has become a passion for many of us, the more time and energy we put into diving into its depths, the more passionate we become. This passion is obvious to prospective clients - they will become infected with it and our businesses will prosper.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
09-21-2009, 08:21 PM
It is amazing how many outdoor lighting pros got their start in other avenues of the lighting industry. Like so many others who I have met over the years, I got my start in theatrical stage lighting. After a 25 year Hiatus from stage lighting, I had the chance to go back into it last year and do the lighting design for a production of The Wizzard of Oz. Amazing how things have changed! I think I will stick with the outdoor architectural/landscape lighting for a while as the 'stage' is so much more diverse, rich, and challenging... and I don't have to take direction from so many others :)

Tom, I look forward to seeing the photos from this year's LLI... Of course I don't suspect anyone there had anything good to say about LED lamps! :dizzy:

seolatlanta
09-21-2009, 10:09 PM
I would absolutely love to go to the class , and since I have a year to budget for it , I am planning on it in 2010.

In my opinion , you are selling yourself ( & myself sometimes!) short looking at the photos and saying "I can do that!" . I have to keep myself in check from closing my mind to other ideas and being short sighted. Every time I went to an AOLP conference or some other lighting event , I always questioned if I was doing the right thing or spending my money the right way. But every time I came home totally pumped up with new knowledge and I ALWAYS learned something that made me more money when I came home and applied what I learned.

Also , the people you meet at these things are so important. I have always gotten jobs , work and friends from going to something like this.

I understand that the money spent is no small sum , but after meeting Jan and George , I am sure you will come home wiser and with a better idea of how you want to design your jobs and run your business.

Lite4
09-22-2009, 09:06 AM
I am sure it is a great class. I don't know what the class costs but I am sure it is not inexpensive. Would be fun to attend someday.

RLDesign
01-09-2010, 04:36 PM
Hello All,

I was considering this year, but was wondering if any members of lawnsite were headed that to the Landscape Lighting Institute or if you have info or photos other than Jan's website. I am having a hardtime coming up with $4000 (3 plus room/travel) of extra cash, and I am trying so hard to convince all around me that the number is worth (and myself).

Thanks,
Tanek
reynoldslandscaping.com

Lite4
01-10-2010, 02:36 PM
Nope, not me this year. I will be busy turning that 4k into 8 or 12k. If I can hit my sales goals this year I might consider it next year.

RLI Electric
01-10-2010, 09:22 PM
I attended the class in September and I think it was great. It is like Tom said, not primarily an installation course but a design course. For someone like myself, it had me look with the eye of an artist rather than a technician for the first time. James, about the LED's, when we saw the amount of LED's we had to work with the first thing that came to my mind was lighting one specifically large tree with all LED's. Just to see how it compared with others. I was very happy with the results. Binning of LED's is an issue that we learned and I think it would have more of an effect on architectural lighting than lighting plant materials but that is just theory. James can probably answer that more than most of us. After all, where can you experiment with that amount of equipment? We did an oak tree and if you look at her website you can see one of the photos of it. I do wish the photos were larger but you should be able to envision it. Her staff was excellent and the one individual who was our "mentor" was David Breary who is inspirational to say the least. His demonstration on pruning trees was incredible. It really is something to be in a place with people that all have a passion for this and I can tell you that Jan is very passionate about the gardens and lighting it. Is there a weak side, yes, the fact that there is little on architectual lighting. Perhaps this is an area for one of you fill? I was joking with Jan at the end of class that if I got nothing else out of the class I did get all the adjectives that I can use when talking with clients. For what it is worth and I know some of you are great at this but you can always pick up something new from anyone. If I have a lull in the day, I will even let a telemarketer ramble on just so I can see how they apply their sales approach. I think this is true with most here who have increased the expertise in this profession over the years, that when you look back at some of your earlier projects you wish you could rip them out and do them all over again. When I left Jan's place, I felt just that way and at my own house I did just that. My property is know a proving grounds not only for lighting but lighting controls and cctv and home theater stuff as well. Well, that is a long winded way of saying I thought her class was great.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-10-2010, 10:44 PM
Bob, if you want more info about LEDs, LED lamps specifically, just ask. I have been using LED lamps almost 100% exclusively in all of my outdoor lighting installations for over two years now. I also develop, manufacture and distribute my own line of LED lamps.

As for the issue of binning and batching the LED chips... well this issue is pretty much non-existant these days. A few years ago it was an issue, but the LED chip manufacturers have introduced excellent protocols for building and then binning their chips. If you are dealing with a reputable name brand chip manufacturer, you can pretty much be assured that the same chip specification will yield the same performance no matter when it was produced. I use Cree, and Nichia and Citizen chips in my lamps and have not had any binning or batching issues across 6 production runs in the past year.

One indication that binning and batching may be an issue is when a lamp company produces a product and says that the CCT is 2700K-3000K. ( I have seen even larger swings in colour than that) There is no need for such a large range if that company were using a properly binned series of LED chips. In my photometry reports on my lamps, the range of CCT across a production run is generally measured in the tens and not hundreds.

Regards