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View Full Version : The NEW Seagull ?


Pro-Scapes
08-17-2009, 11:11 PM
Is this another attempt to knock off a quality Manu or ???

http://www.seagulllighting.com/Directional-Lighting-91003-147.html

Mike M
08-17-2009, 11:25 PM
Looks like they are carrying Unique's line under the name "meridian line."

Is Seagull considered a distributor?

TXNSLighting
08-17-2009, 11:31 PM
um wow...i cant wait for Joeys response to this..Thats pretty much Uniques whole line!

Lite4
08-18-2009, 06:47 AM
Wow, I wonder if there was a deal made? The prices online are just below list for Unique. If there isn't a deal with Unique and Sea Gull, oh boy! The heat be comin down! I think it would be a smart move for Unique to do something like this. Most "lighting" stores all carry the Sea Gull brand of lighting products. It would be a good way of getting into these places to move some product.

irrig8r
08-18-2009, 10:46 AM
Well, I haven't heard anything, but looking at the fixture names on those pages you would have to think a deal was made.

JoeyD
08-18-2009, 10:57 AM
We have co-branded (maybe not the right term?) with Sea Gull. They were in need of a solid outdoor / landscape lighting product line and they sought us out to help them fill that void. They quickly fell in love with our products and our quality. They could have easily gone to China and done what so many other companies have done, take the easy way out and just copy our products. Instead they saw value in working directly with us being that we hold the patents, have a solid in house design and engineering staff, solid technical support, and a will to produce the best products on the market.

Sea Gull Lighting is an amazing company. Their staff is second to none and they really know how to make things happen. I can say we have benefited in working with them by just seeing how they do certain things. It is truly a team effort!

Just to make things clear and prevent any rumors right now-

NO - we are not in "partnership" when it comes to who owns Unique or Sea Gull. We are 2 very separate companies just working together.

NO - there is nothing more to this other than sharing these products.

NO - This was not an economic decision in terms of trying to boost our numbers because of a slow economy. Unique is still posting superb sales numbers, this was not necessary, it was simply a smart decision on both sides to work together and continue to grow both of our businesses and provide the industry and our customers with the best outdoor lighting products!

We welcome any questions!! We are proud to be working with Sea Gull Lighting!

Pro-Scapes
08-18-2009, 02:31 PM
Joey just curious. If they changed the name to meridian how come they didnt change the fixture names ?

If someone were to buy from a seagull rep now would they get it in a unique box ? If you click the links its a unique cut sheet. I understand what you guys have done and why but just seems strange how it was done and you didnt do a heads up release like you do when there is a new product.

JoeyD
08-18-2009, 03:14 PM
Good questions Billy. We will put together a formal announcement that will better explian the partnership.

Sea Gull has chosen to keep the fixture names for simplicity. They are not trying to hide the fact that we are making the products for them. Co-Branding was not the right term for me to use, it is more of a private label if you will. Sea Gull will have their own packaging with the label of Unique Lightscaping "A Brand of Sea Gull Lighting" on all the labels and boxes. Meridian is the series of fixtures. They may add other series of products?

I am not sure what links you clicked but Sea Gull has their own cut sheets that have been developed. We are not marketing their line, only they are, that is why we have not made any formal announcements of this new partnership.

Again, we are pleased to work with Sea Gull and look forward to working closely with them to provide our own and their customers with a solid product line!

Lite4
08-18-2009, 06:33 PM
I think it's a smart move. Sea Gull is very popular in most lighting only stores and electrical wholesale outlets. Now I have a reason to network with some of these lighting stores and buy product from them with their referrals. It used to be you could only get some cheap junk from these stores. Bravo!

Pro-Scapes
08-18-2009, 10:15 PM
I see where your coming from Tim but I also see it a bit differently. Opening up the unique line to the diy or non prof installer may be a good move on the numbers side of things but it isnt good for the dedicated pro. I know the diy crowd will still get thier hands on anything they want with the internet and every dist looking to make a buck but I always associated certain brands as a pro's only brand. When I design and build a lighting system for a client I expect myself to provide them something special in every facet of the project from the concept to the design and the materials. How will it make the product line look when untrained hacks are poppin it in?

Unique is a good quality brand and I have used it extensivly but if every joe has it and the market is flooded with it then will it lose its "uniqueness" ????

Im really kinda mixed on this. Sorry if I tick anyone off with this post but this looks like what other companies have done in the past.

indylights
08-18-2009, 10:45 PM
My brother-in-law is the sales manager for a major irrigation/landscape supply chain in the Midwest, so he has some good insight on this. Expect it from more companies. It's already happened in the irrigation, stone, and landscape supply world. Lighting manufacturers a taking a beating right now (and Joey, I love your dedication, but from the numerous reps he talks to, Unique is in that boat as well) and they need to move product any way they can. They will justify it by saying the are selling the product at retail and still giving contractors the benefit of wholesale pricing, but the bottom line is, just like everybody else, if they don't sell, they don't eat. Don't get me wrong, I'm not condemning any company for doing this because I understand it's basically survival of the fittest right now, and you do what you have to do. Some companies are more leveraged than others and some are obviously on firmer financial footing than others, so it will be interesting to see how it all shakes out by fall of 2010 because I have a feeling some serious dominoes are going to fall by then. The bottom line is we are going to have to get even better and more efficient at our craft, whether it be landscaping, lighting, ponds, whatever it may be to give the homeowner a reason to choose us instead of doing it themselves.

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes

JoeyD
08-19-2009, 11:35 AM
Guys, again, please don't read into this or try to over analyze this. We are simply providing another company who had a low level landscape lighting product upgrade to a much better, and more reliable landscape/outdoor lighting product. Sea Gull has a strong PROFESSIONAL following in the Electrical Distribution Market which is an area that we lack proper representation in. And when I say proper I mean that the ED market is a very large and extensive market and the way we sell our products it would require us to at least double our sales staff to properly cover the ED market properly. This helps us get professional lighting products into the hands of professionals and keep the hack brands out. It is a great thing for both Unique and Sea Gull to share this product line. This is not something we would even consider doing with every manufacturer seeking our products. It was a good fit for both of us.

This will not affect our customers who already buy Unique, this will not mean a bunch of DIYers will now have access. If the DIY market was Sea Gulls focus they would not have upgraded to a more expensive product.

Some have viewed Sea Gull as a low level product line, and in regards to landscape lighting that may have been true. But after seeing their other interior and architectural products, and seeing how they conduct themselves and operate their business it is easy to see that Sea Gull is a top notch company that we are proud to be working with.

Again, Unique is not going anywhere, this was not a move of desperation or even necessity. This was purely a business decision to help our company and their company grow.

We welcome any and all questions.

Eden Lights
08-20-2009, 02:04 AM
Stop selling products and sell yourself, If a client wants to find the product for a wholesale price they will. We only have a couple of protected lines and I don't expect one of them to last over the next couple of months without being priced out everywhere.

David Gretzmier
08-20-2009, 10:20 AM
The nearest seagull location to me is 2 hours away, so no big deal. I am thrilled that the prices are posted online. the prices just to buy Seagull fixtures online exceed what 99% of landscapers around here charge per fixture installed with all materials and labor included. bravo.

Alan B
08-20-2009, 11:09 AM
Stop selling products and sell yourself, If a client wants to find the product for a wholesale price they will. We only have a couple of protected lines and I don't expect one of them to last over the next couple of months without being priced out everywhere.

Eden,

I completely agree.

Additionally, the vast majority of homeowners don't even know professional landscape lighting brands. They are trusting you, what you say about the brand you use... and maybe a little based on a sample you show them.

As evidence, I asked about 10 of my neighbors and friends (all in $1MM+ homes) about brands -- no one knew any. They go off what the contractor recommends and carries. Secondly, they wouldn't't think of doing it themselves. If they are pricing it out or would do it themselves -- not a good customer to begin with.

As Eden said they are buying you.

Lastly, people pay an electrician $200/recessed fixture but you can buy cans for $19 at home depot. They pay $2000 for planting bushes/landscaping that they could buy for $500. Why? They are buying you, your service, professionalism, quality, design and reputation.

In the perfect world it would be great to be protected, but barriers are coming down across all industries as commerce gets more efficient. Hopefully this will translate into lower prices for contractors as well.

Lite4
08-20-2009, 07:26 PM
The nearest seagull location to me is 2 hours away, so no big deal. I am thrilled that the prices are posted online. the prices just to buy Seagull fixtures online exceed what 99% of landscapers around here charge per fixture installed with all materials and labor included. bravo.

Seriously!?! How can any company install lighting that cheaply and stay in business? Let em, they will cut their own throat and be out of business in a year or I will wind up getting a service call in a couple of years to fix their cheap, crappy install; which is what usually happens.

indylights
08-20-2009, 10:04 PM
Seriously!?! How can any company install lighting that cheaply and stay in business? Let em, they will cut their own throat and be out of business in a year or I will wind up getting a service call in a couple of years to fix their cheap, crappy install; which is what usually happens.


Tim,

I was thinking the exact same thing. There's no way those guys are making any profit, no matter what fixture they are using. What kills me is that there are a lot of contractors, whether it be lighting, landscaping, etc., who think just because they are working, they're doing alright. It's not brain surgery, if you aren't making a profit, all you are doing is killing time, and that's all these guys are doing.

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes

Pro-Scapes
08-21-2009, 07:05 AM
alot of thoes guys are drop[ping a wire i n the trench with the irri and just daisy chaining the lights. Next to no labor. They also put in 10 lights on the front of a 7k sq ft home where alot of us would use closer to 40 lights. I have followed 1 landscaper 6 times only to rip out his entire system. Only good point I have found to it is I dont have to do the driveway bores :)

David Gretzmier
08-21-2009, 09:32 AM
Many times landscapers charge way less than the prices posted on that website for the seagull fixtures. the prices I saw ran from 150-225. I have bid against guys that are installing turnkey jobs at 125 per fixture, and way less when they use malibu. seriously, guys that put plants in the ground from Lowe's and Home Depot have no problem about going a few aisles over, buy a 15 light "metal" kit and a few 100 foot loops of wire for a total out of pocket to them of maybe 250 bucks. They will throw it in in a 1/2 day to a day for 750 bucks and be happy they made 500 bucks on 2 guys. For the homeowner, it is a step up from nothing and dark. and when we come in a few years, they freak out at 3- 5 grand for the "same" thing. landscapers and big box stores are by far are the worst ememy of the lighting guy. They ruin the marketplace. I have not just seen it a few times. it is in the hundreds.

Light magic maker
09-12-2009, 10:04 PM
Why would Unique let a company sell it's products and put it under a different name. Isn't it Unique who is always complaining about getting ripped off by competitors? So it's Ok with them that the same product is being sold under a different name as long as they are being paid? I don't understand the logic in this move. I've heard of private label deals but usually the source manufacturer has not already branded the same product in the marketplace. Usually they are unknown. This is highly unusual.

Lite4
09-12-2009, 11:13 PM
Why would Unique let a company sell it's products and put it under a different name. Isn't it Unique who is always complaining about getting ripped off by competitors? So it's Ok with them that the same product is being sold under a different name as long as they are being paid? I don't understand the logic in this move. I've heard of private label deals but usually the source manufacturer has not already branded the same product in the marketplace. Usually they are unknown. This is highly unusual.

I am sure it is a move based primarily on a financial premis. I mean come on, you and I both know our distributors are not moving near as much lighting as they have been in the past let alone the very high end equipment like Unique to boot. I am sure Unique along with many other manufacturers are feeling the pinch and are simply looking for a way to diversify themselves in the market place in much the same way that they are teaching landscapers to diversify and add lighting to the long list of items they offer.

Light magic maker
09-13-2009, 09:20 AM
Joey said in his response that it wasn't done for financial reasons and the company is sound in that area. Sea Gull could just sell the Unique product like any other distributor. The question is why are they selling the same product and changing the name to Meridian. Is it the first step in a buy out? This really is unprecedented.

Lite4
09-13-2009, 02:47 PM
Joey said in his response that it wasn't done for financial reasons and the company is sound in that area. Sea Gull could just sell the Unique product like any other distributor. The question is why are they selling the same product and changing the name to Meridian. Is it the first step in a buy out? This really is unprecedented.

Well of course he is going to say they are doing fine. He is a representative of Unique Lighting. It wouldn't look too good if he said they were in trouble financially ( and I am not saying they are!!) and needed to find a way to mass market their product to the general public. I don't care who it is, every manu is down. Do the math, the majority of everyone in the lighting biz is down in sales over past years. Who buys these products from the manufacturers? Well, of course we do. If we as installers are down, they as suppliers are down too. Anybody in business can figuire that out. It's just simple supply and demand.

JoeyD
09-14-2009, 09:56 AM
Joey said in his response that it wasn't done for financial reasons and the company is sound in that area. Sea Gull could just sell the Unique product like any other distributor. The question is why are they selling the same product and changing the name to Meridian. Is it the first step in a buy out? This really is unprecedented.



Thank you for your concern but it is not a buy out or the beggining of one.....LOL Unique is :weightlifter:

Sea Gull was looking to up grade their landscape lighting line and came to the experts to assist them with that. End of story.