What do you do with left over CT?

[lawncuttinfoo]

What do you personally do with CT left over after a day of spraying (microbes mostly dead/going anerobic), say if you had 50 gals?

[NattyLawn]

Spray it on a compost pile, my home lawn, any lawn areas or trees and shrubs around the shop...

[lawncuttinfoo]

Do you have anything in it besides the tea, like humic acid, seaweed?
I'm mostly concerned about the concentration of these additives.

[phasthound]

Spray it on a compost pile, my home lawn, any lawn areas or trees and shrubs around the shop...

Yeah, what he said. Another option is day care centers and other places that could help you grow your business by word of mouth.

[phasthound]

Do you have anything in it besides the tea, like humic acid, seaweed?
I'm mostly concerned about the concentration of these additives.

We add those and fish hydrolysate. We run our pump throughout the day to aerate & recirculate the mix so there should be no problems with it going anaerobic or obtaining too high of a concentration.

Hope this helps.

[Prolawnservice]

You shouldn't have that much left over. Thats what I tell my guys, here's the sqft you should be covering at 3 gal per k so mix up that much, or slightly more like maybe 10 gallons more. Unless the sprayer is broken, no one has ever come back with more than a few gallons, which is easily dispensed as Natty said or to a neighbor ect...

[JDUtah]

Stick it back in a brewer and use it the next day's brew?

(This is coming from someone who doesn't believe in CT)

[lawncuttinfoo]

I'm using a 500 gal. turbo turf hydroseeder which needs about 50 gals to run properly, Once its under 50 gals there is no more recirculation and the temps skyrocket because the 13 HP pump gets hot.

So I have 50 gals left in the tank, with humic acid and seaweed concentrations that should cover 20,000 sq ft. Even if I had 20,000 sq ft of turf to spray onto which I don't, the 25 min it would take to spray would leave me with a a near boiling CT mix.

I'm also using a 50 gal microbulator. The most frequent I currently brew is once a week so I would have to leave it steep for 5.5 days which I'm guessing is bad. Even if I was constantly brewing and spraying the 24 hour brew cycle becomes a problem since I could not start it till I returned from spraying which would be in the afternoon leaving a less than 24 hour brew to spray again in the morning.

So this leaves a every other day cycle at most meaning I could brew for 36 hours or leave it steep for over 12 hours. Either way this would also mean using the 50 gals of "old" CT as the entire solution for the new batch, I'm guessing that would not be such a good thing.

[phasthound]

I'm using a 500 gal. turbo turf hydroseeder which needs about 50 gals to run properly, Once its under 50 gals there is no more recirculation and the temps skyrocket because the 13 HP pump gets hot.

So I have 50 gals left in the tank, with humic acid and seaweed concentrations that should cover 20,000 sq ft. Even if I had 20,000 sq ft of turf to spray onto which I don't, the 25 min it would take to spray would leave me with a a near boiling CT mix.

I'm also using a 50 gal microbulator. The most frequent I currently brew is once a week so I would have to leave it steep for 5.5 days which I'm guessing is bad. Even if I was constantly brewing and spraying the 24 hour brew cycle becomes a problem since I could not start it till I returned from spraying which would be in the afternoon leaving a less than 24 hour brew to spray again in the morning.

So this leaves a every other day cycle at most meaning I could brew for 36 hours or leave it steep for over 12 hours. Either way this would also mean using the 50 gals of "old" CT as the entire solution for the new batch, I'm guessing that would not be such a good thing.

I also have a 50 gal microbulator. you should be able to maintain the integrity of the brew for up to 5 days if you maintain aeration, but check with Tim on that. When I am constantly brewing I can clean and restart a brew with the microbulator in 30 minutes before I begin applications, so a new brew is ready for the next day.

Another option is to use ICT Hydro-seed in your mix.

[NattyLawn]

I'm using a 500 gal. turbo turf hydroseeder which needs about 50 gals to run properly, Once its under 50 gals there is no more recirculation and the temps skyrocket because the 13 HP pump gets hot.

So I have 50 gals left in the tank, with humic acid and seaweed concentrations that should cover 20,000 sq ft. Even if I had 20,000 sq ft of turf to spray onto which I don't, the 25 min it would take to spray would leave me with a a near boiling CT mix.

I'm also using a 50 gal microbulator. The most frequent I currently brew is once a week so I would have to leave it steep for 5.5 days which I'm guessing is bad. Even if I was constantly brewing and spraying the 24 hour brew cycle becomes a problem since I could not start it till I returned from spraying which would be in the afternoon leaving a less than 24 hour brew to spray again in the morning.

So this leaves a every other day cycle at most meaning I could brew for 36 hours or leave it steep for over 12 hours. Either way this would also mean using the 50 gals of "old" CT as the entire solution for the new batch, I'm guessing that would not be such a good thing.

I also use a 50 gallon Microbulator. Master Tim should chime in here eventually. I think you're brewing for too long. Usually 48-72 hours is the max. After 48-72 hours the foods should be used up and protozoa will dominate the tea. Brewing temps will play a part in this as well, as generally the warmer it is, the faster nutrient cycling will occur. Now, what is your source of compost? Is it readily available? What are you using your tea for? Disease suppression or a soil amendment? If a soil amendment, Tim has posted in the past on how to make his brewer an extractor. Basically, you're stripping the microbes without adding foods so the microbes don't mulitiply nearly as fast. A local farmer brought some in and I looked at it under the scope, and I didn't start seeing any protozoa (Ciliates are mainly what I'm looking for) until day 5. So, you get roughly 5 days of extract vs. tea, which has to be used within 4-6 hours after taking it off of consistent air. The beauty is you add the humates, seaweed, molasses or whatever as you go to spray. So the microbes are multiplying in the soil, not in the tea. If you want disease suppression or a foliar app, brew some tea.

I'm like ProLawn too, as I make enough for my day, and usually it's gone before I return to the shop. There are always exceptions though (homeowner cancels app, kids party, whatever).

[lawncuttinfoo]

I also use a 50 gallon Microbulator. Master Tim should chime in here eventually. I think you're brewing for too long. Usually 48-72 hours is the max. After 48-72 hours the foods should be used up and protozoa will dominate the tea. Brewing temps will play a part in this as well, as generally the warmer it is, the faster nutrient cycling will occur. Now, what is your source of compost? Is it readily available? What are you using your tea for? Disease suppression or a soil amendment? If a soil amendment, Tim has posted in the past on how to make his brewer an extractor. Basically, you're stripping the microbes without adding foods so the microbes don't mulitiply nearly as fast. A local farmer brought some in and I looked at it under the scope, and I didn't start seeing any protozoa (Ciliates are mainly what I'm looking for) until day 5. So, you get roughly 5 days of extract vs. tea, which has to be used within 4-6 hours after taking it off of consistent air. The beauty is you add the humates, seaweed, molasses or whatever as you go to spray. So the microbes are multiplying in the soil, not in the tea. If you want disease suppression or a foliar app, brew some tea.

I'm like ProLawn too, as I make enough for my day, and usually it's gone before I return to the shop. There are always exceptions though (homeowner cancels app, kids party, whatever).

You misread my post, I brew for 24 hours.

Yes I know how to do basic math and brew just enough for the day, but as I said this will not work with my sprayer.
(Sorry for the harshness but please read carefully before responding)

[lawncuttinfoo]

[QUOTE=phasthound;3150916]I also have a 50 gal microbulator. you should be able to maintain the integrity of the brew for up to 5 days if you maintain aeration, but check with Tim on that. When I am constantly brewing I can clean and restart a brew with the microbulator in 30 minutes before I begin applications, so a new brew is ready for the next day.
QUOTE]

Without food the system crashes.

Yes I can restart a brew in 30 min too, that's not the problem. Someone suggested using the old tea in the new brew, meaning AFTER your complete spray route.
Or are you saying you can spray your whole tank and restart the brew all in 30 min? I can't do that, each route I'm spraying 100,000 sq ft over ~13 props.

[NattyLawn]

You misread my post, I brew for 24 hours.

Yes I know how to do basic math and brew just enough for the day, but as I said this will not work with my sprayer.
(Sorry for the harshness but please read carefully before responding)

What is this "steeping" period you're talking about?

If it's not re-circulating and it's a hydroseeder, can't you get rid of it quick?

[phasthound]

[QUOTE=lawncuttinfoo;3151843
Yes I can restart a brew in 30 min too, that's not the problem. Someone suggested using the old tea in the new brew, meaning AFTER your complete spray route.
Or are you saying you can spray your whole tank and restart the brew all in 30 min? I can't do that, each route I'm spraying 100,000 sq ft over ~13 props.[/QUOTE]

Sorry I wasn't clear. After I empty the brewer into the spray tank, I clean the brewer, add water compost & food, and start brewing before I leave to apply the tea that is in the sprayer. So, the next batch is brewing while I'm spraying and is ready the next day.

[Tim Wilson]

Sorry, I haven't checked in for a couple of days.

If you brew beyond 48 hours using the Microbulator you should monitor the brew with a microscope (and maybe O2 meter). Brewing beyond this period will probably call for additional foodstock but really what's the point?

If you need to 'keep' some ACT that is finished brewing; If you have used the bag, just remove the compost and keep the aeration/circulation going. I've kept teas up to 24 hours like this. It works better if cooler rather than warm.
If you have brewed in free suspension its more difficult but you can use your straining technique and keep the tea without compost and foods in another barrel, etc. and just drop the air diffuser in there and in the same fashion, it may stay okay for up to 24 hours BUT better to use ACT as soon as possible after brewing.

Matt/Natty makes a good point concerning an unfed extract. Matt, have you used my brewer to make extract?

As far as using up left over CT, I agree that using it in the compost pile or home garden is a good place. I don't know the rate of additional ingredients you are putting in so can't comment on that. Be cautious about adding too much fish hydrolysate to a finished CT.

[lawncuttinfoo]

What is this "steeping" period you're talking about?

If it's not re-circulating and it's a hydroseeder, can't you get rid of it quick?

By steeping I mean leaving the tea non aerified in a container. (before AACT there was CT which was leaving CT "steep" in a container with no aerification)

Thank you for that suggestion, Yes I guess I can hook up the hydroseeding hose and nozzle and spray it onto my lawn quick.
However the problem of high concentrations of humic acid and seaweed still persist.

[lawncuttinfoo]

Sorry I wasn't clear. After I empty the brewer into the spray tank, I clean the brewer, add water compost & food, and start brewing before I leave to apply the tea that is in the sprayer. So, the next batch is brewing while I'm spraying and is ready the next day.

Exactly, which means you (nor I) can use the remainder tea from the spraying day in the next batch because the next batch is already full and brewing.

[lawncuttinfoo]

As far as using up left over CT, I agree that using it in the compost pile or home garden is a good place. I don't know the rate of additional ingredients you are putting in so can't comment on that. Be cautious about adding too much fish hydrolysate to a finished CT.

Not using any fish hydrolysate. I am using 23 oz of Nature's essence seaweed extract and 10 Tablespoons of Nature's essence SP-90 per 100,000 K. This is on par with the recommendations on the KIS website.

So this means that depending on my CT dilution rate I have anywhere from 2.3-4.6 oz of seaweed and 1-2 tablespoons of SP-90 in that remainder 50 gals in my tank. Which works out to amounts that should be sprayed over 10,000-20,000 sq ft, 5 times per year at most, per KIS recommended rates.

What are the possible problems with severely exceeding recommended rates of seaweed and Humic Acid on any single portion of soil/turf/compost pile?

[phasthound]

Exactly, which means you (nor I) can use the remainder tea from the spraying day in the next batch because the next batch is already full and brewing.

I was referring to this part of your quote,
Even if I was constantly brewing and spraying the 24 hour brew cycle becomes a problem since I could not start it till I returned from spraying which would be in the afternoon leaving a less than 24 hour brew to spray again in the morning.
I understood that to mean you didn't immediately start another brew in the morning for use the next day.

[Tim Wilson]

Not using any fish hydrolysate. I am using 23 oz of Nature's essence seaweed extract and 10 Tablespoons of Nature's essence SP-90 per 100,000 K. This is on par with the recommendations on the KIS website.

So this means that depending on my CT dilution rate I have anywhere from 2.3-4.6 oz of seaweed and 1-2 tablespoons of SP-90 in that remainder 50 gals in my tank. Which works out to amounts that should be sprayed over 10,000-20,000 sq ft, 5 times per year at most, per KIS recommended rates.

What are the possible problems with severely exceeding recommended rates of seaweed and Humic Acid on any single portion of soil/turf/compost pile?


I would not worry about spreading it on garden or turf or compost pile so long it is not on the same area every time.

How about aerate it and sell it at a discount to your neighbors?

Be sure you add those ingredients to the water and not to the tea before you dilute it. That much stuff could put your microbes to sleep.

I don't recommend the steeping thing.

My recommendation for the humic acid, which I think is SP-90 is 5 tablespoons at the beginning of the brew (but I believe this is included in the KIS Microbulator Pro Kit)

Let me know if you have any questions. Have fun.

[lawncuttinfoo]

I am currently putting in 10 tbs of SP-90 at the beginning of the brew for both the microbes and to neutralize 50 gals of 1.2 ppl of Sodium Hypochlorite city water.

Then I heard that is mostly used up after 24 hours so I add 10 more tbs SP-90 after dilution.

Tim, Side note,
I am getting clogging in the microbulaor with my KIS compost, do you have a strainer you can recommend running the compost through pre-brew to make sure the brewer won't get clogged?

[Tim Wilson]

I am currently putting in 10 tbs of SP-90 at the beginning of the brew for both the microbes and to neutralize 50 gals of 1.2 ppl of Sodium Hypochlorite city water.

Then I heard that is mostly used up after 24 hours so I add 10 more tbs SP-90 after dilution.

Tim, Side note,
I am getting clogging in the microbulaor with my KIS compost, do you have a strainer you can recommend running the compost through pre-brew to make sure the brewer won't get clogged?

You are going to end up with way too much humic acid using those amounts. 5 to 6 tablespoons is the max you should use. Be sure to find out if there is any added to the kit you get from KIS. The compost for the microbulator is supposed to be screened at 1/2 inch (as I recall). If you can build a simple 1/2 inch screen from 2X4 and stucco wire (or?) that should do the job and/or remove any twigs or other larger stuff you see OR use the mesh bag.

[growingdeeprootsorganicly]

if i may, where and how are you getting clogged?

i think i have an idea where the clog is happening but is it from small/fine particulate matter or larger material... or both? perhaps while brewing you pull the pipe up and manually remove the clog or lift the pipe up and down rapidly to loosen clog at bit and rinse back out?

if nothing solves your issue you can use the extractor bag, i find it makes just as good tea but if you let it "steep for days with out aeration"? ill recommend you skip the whole brew process to begin with.

[lawncuttinfoo]

5-6 tablespoons before and after? or just before or just after?

I'm not using the kit. I ordered 50 lbs of the "food" from them and I use 4 cups of that per brew.

I don't want to use the bag because of reduced fungi count and the fact of so much more to clean after each brew.

I have encountered 2 major clogs in the 4 brews I have done. One was a partial clog in the base. The 2nd was a total clog at the top above the water line.

I brew off site so I have no ability to check up on it and tap it out, I need to "set it and forget it":)

[Tim Wilson]

5-6 tablespoons before and after? or just before or just after?

I'm not using the kit. I ordered 50 lbs of the "food" from them and I use 4 cups of that per brew.

I don't want to use the bag because of reduced fungi count and the fact of so much more to clean after each brew.

I have encountered 2 major clogs in the 4 brews I have done. One was a partial clog in the base. The 2nd was a total clog at the top above the water line.

I brew off site so I have no ability to check up on it and tap it out, I need to "set it and forget it":)

At the beginning of the brew and 'I do not ever add anything to the brew once it is finished' If you are diluting the CT add anything else to the water and not the CT prior to putting the CT into the water.

If the pipe clogged, it means the compost is not fine enough. Using too much humic acid can contribute to plugging up the large diffuser (I think).

We have had blockages only a few times out of many brews and have cleared them by turning the valve off and on to flush. Using the brewer properly is, of course, important. If brewing in free suspension be sure to set the flow rate before putting in the ingredients.

Did you get compost from KIS or elsewhere? Does it look like the fine compost in the instructional DVD?

You have a microscope right? Try a brew with the bag sometime to see what the fungal difference is.

[Tim Wilson]

Just wanted to note; If you use the wrong cap [the one with the drilled holes] on the largest diffuser, the brewer will plug. That cap is for use on the smaller bag diffuser only.

[tadhussey]

5-6 tablespoons before and after? or just before or just after?

I'm not using the kit. I ordered 50 lbs of the "food" from them and I use 4 cups of that per brew.

I don't want to use the bag because of reduced fungi count and the fact of so much more to clean after each brew.

I have encountered 2 major clogs in the 4 brews I have done. One was a partial clog in the base. The 2nd was a total clog at the top above the water line.

I brew off site so I have no ability to check up on it and tap it out, I need to "set it and forget it":)

Sorry, haven't been on here in forever. :)

As far as humic and seaweed rates go, the rates on the "Seaweed and Humate" sheet are for homeowners that are making small amounts of tea. If you're doing larger applications, you're going to want to use the sheet that says "SP-85" or "SP-90" depending on which humic product you have.

From talking to Erik Morgan over at Organic Approach, he told me last week that 8 oz. is the most seaweed you want to use per acre per application. Also, you're looking at somewhere between 24-36 oz. max per acre annually. Go ahead and give me a call in the office if you want to go over application rates.

If you're using our Pro Kits or compost, it's all pre-screen so it can be used in free suspension in the Microbulator (no chance of clogging). There will be particulate that may need to be screen though before putting it in your sprayer.

[lawncuttinfoo]

I did have quite a few large wood chunks (2" on length) in the bulk compost I received, however I did try not adding any humic acid in the begining and there was no more clogging in the big tube ( I never had clogging in the diffuser)

[lawncuttinfoo]

I can not find the sp85 and sp90 sheet you refer to, is it on the website?


Sorry, haven't been on here in forever. :)

As far as humic and seaweed rates go, the rates on the "Seaweed and Humate" sheet are for homeowners that are making small amounts of tea. If you're doing larger applications, you're going to want to use the sheet that says "SP-85" or "SP-90" depending on which humic product you have.

From talking to Erik Morgan over at Organic Approach, he told me last week that 8 oz. is the most seaweed you want to use per acre per application. Also, you're looking at somewhere between 24-36 oz. max per acre annually. Go ahead and give me a call in the office if you want to go over application rates.

If you're using our Pro Kits or compost, it's all pre-screen so it can be used in free suspension in the Microbulator (no chance of clogging). There will be particulate that may need to be screen though before putting it in your sprayer.

[tadhussey]

Wow, you're right, I just went and checked and they're not on there. Send me an email at tad at simplici-tea.com and I'll email it to you.

[Tim Wilson]

I did have quite a few large wood chunks (2" on length) in the bulk compost I received, however I did try not adding any humic acid in the begining and there was no more clogging in the big tube ( I never had clogging in the diffuser)

Interesting huh?