Hunter MP1000 for turf?

[Karyl]

Would anyone please advise me on a decent nozzle for irrigating residential turf? I have a 12.5'W x 110'L strip of fescue which I am attempting to install an underground irrigation system for. This is the only area I am concerned about watering, the grass strip only.

It's a right-of way-off the street so I can only install a long 110' strip on the house side - this will keep it on my side of the 10' government-property rule. There is potential for cars parking on the right of way, although very infrequently. All the same, a car will not park directly on top of any sprayer heads or irrigation if kept on "my" side due to an obvious plant border, they'd have to plow through landscaping. Anyhow, as a result I can not install anywhere but on the house side in a long run. There are no sidewalks here, nothing of that nature, just a strip of grass. There is no underground drainage pipe system, the right of way slopes act as drainage ditches. I'm pretty country here.

The dirt is loam with some sand for a good 8" 10" deep, and the grade slopes gently down from the street and then back up again towards the house, runoff would go in drainage ditch. I doubt there would be much runoff as the dirt is absorbent unless I watered way too fast.

So I have been researching which nozzles to use and so far have selected the Hunter MP1000. This is after reading a gillion posts here, but honestly you guys have your own language so I am not completely positive I have understood everything I need to consider. I am actually assuming that when "MP" is talked about that it's Hunter. What my understanding is about these is:

1. Pressure is everything. If the presser is screwed up, you get mist and other ineffective sprays.

2. You need to run MP longer than conventional sprinklers. Not that I would know squat about that, I've never used a conventional sprinkler system and use a rain gauge to determine how much I have watered/rain, adjust according to plant type needs.

3. It is easier to use the lower model MP1000 on short distances, i.e. my 12.5', than to try and take a higher model, i.e. MP2000, and shorten the distance.

Am I on the right track? I understand that there are a lot of opinions here, I'm just trying to avoid installing the completely wrong thing. Any advice, tips, what to avoid or other ideas to consider are appreciated.

[Kiril]

The MP2000 will work if you put it on a 30 PSI PRS like a 1800 series SAM-PRS or Hunter Institutional.

[Wet_Boots]

Whether you employ a MP Rotator or ordinary spray nozzles, you could try installing the heads at a slight tilt towards the border you don't want to overthrow, which will reduce the distance of throw in that direction.

[hoskm01]

Try sub-surface drip. Eliminate overspray 100%.

[Kiril]

Try sub-surface drip. Eliminate overspray 100%.

WOOOOOOOOT! :clapping:

[Karyl]

Try sub-surface drip. Eliminate overspray 100%.

that's what I really really wanted in the first place. I love the drip irrigation I have everywhere else (and have no clue why any homeowner would use anything else), but this is a right-of-way and I can not install anything within that 10' wide strip or on the sides. I can't work a way for drip to run uphill for 12.5'. :) Belongs to the county, homeowners maintain. I am installing irrigation because I am in GA, grass needs extra water, but I am not going to be dragging sprinkler hose around, it's far away from the house and I know I wouldn't maintain that anyway. Too small a job for a contractor except Home Depot who does Orbit - I don't need conventional irrigation anywhere else.

The MP2000 will work if you put it on a 30 PSI PRS like a 1800 series SAM-PRS or Hunter Institutional.

Those I have available to me, thanks. Hard to find parts where I am.

The landscaping border is a low growing ground cover, over spray will be fine there. It's the street I don't care to water but the street is where nozzles will point. Fine tuning I can work with, it's the initial coverage pattern which would concern me most and the nozzle to be correct for turf.

[ArTurf]

The MP 1000 should work fine. I have done similiar strips with them. I assume you know all the other factors in setting up an irrigation system.

[Karyl]

I assume you know all the other factors in setting up an irrigation system.

I don't even begin to know all the other factors - I've never done this. Reading about and doing are two completely different things, and I have a lot of respect for experts and their knowledge/experience in a given field. I work with computers - something I see even pros screw up frequently (mind bogglingly even). It's taught me a lot about learning! So I'll read to death, ask before I do a thing.

For someone like me all the pieces and parts tying together is confusing. Still it's a ton of work amending soil and laying sod which will go to waste without water. I hope to keep it simple, just manual until next year. I won't take on controllers, timers, etc yet. The plumbing aspect is not an issue at least.

[Kiril]

Arm yourself with the knowledge of how to do it properly and you will be fine.

[ArTurf]

If you are thinking of setting it up first with manual valves do not waste your time/money. Go ahead and use an electric valve. You can manually operate the valve if needed. In fact there is not a good reason to go ahead and install the controller unless money is very tight. A good controller is only $100.

[bcg]

I see 12.5x110 and wonder, why not just use 12' radius sprays on a PRS head?

[GreenLight]

If your width is 12.5 feet, unless you use something in the 15 foot range (dialed down mp 2000 or standard spray) and over spray you are going to have spots that virtually get zero water (especially if you are throwing uphill). If you can't triangulate your heads and you have to do one single strip because of the right way you are basically going to have to overspray onto the street or have week spots because of the radius throw of the nozzle even if you are head to head. Mp 1000 is by far the weakest of the mp models and if you get a consistent 10 foot radius out of them then you are doing good, but expect nothing more. Yes you do save massive gpm with the mp1000 and it could be a necessity if your water pressure is low and you are trying to squeeze it all into as few zones as possible. That being said, fixed arc sprays can be pretty conservative as well and your run times are shorter and overall I would trust them more on turf personally.

[Karyl]

I see 12.5x110 and wonder, why not just use 12' radius sprays on a PRS head?

Because I don't know any better. I say that with zero sarcasm, I just honestly am unfamiliar with these products. I learned the MP heads from product literature which is trying to sell me something, searches here which leaned toward MP, and google books - usually put out by an irrigation company and trying to sell me something. I'm happy to change my mind.

If you can't triangulate your heads and you have to do one single strip because of the right way you are basically going to have to overspray onto the street or have week spots because of the radius throw of the nozzle even if you are head to head.

I understand. As far as I can tell, there aren't any square/rectangle strip sprays which will throw 12'. They are in the 5' range so I know I'll have some street overspray. I could run a line down my drive side and use a rectangle, but that's still only going to cover 30' of 110'.

Mp 1000 is by far the weakest of the mp models and if you get a consistent 10 foot radius out of them then you are doing good, but expect nothing more.

Okay so I do not want the Mp 1000 - gotcha. That's exactly what I wanted to know, thank you.

Yes you do save massive gpm with the mp1000 and it could be a necessity if your water pressure is low and you are trying to squeeze it all into as few zones as possible. That being said, fixed arc sprays can be pretty conservative as well and your run times are shorter and overall I would trust them more on turf personally.

I am not overly concerned about gpm, the area is small and won't use massive amounts of water, single zone, I've totally removed and re-done the soil and it will absorb/hold well. Making great dirt I excel at. I use sprays on my drip, different animal I know, but I'm completely happy with spray method and prefer it over traditional sprinklers. I'll start taking a look at fixed arc sprays. The area is somewhat wind protected as well.

If you are thinking of setting it up first with manual valves do not waste your time/money. Go ahead and use an electric valve.

I'm a geek. I won't be able to help but tie it into a program. Probably re-wire into a remote control with an electric rain gauge for shut off control just for fun - it's compulsive behavior for me. :)

[Kiril]

If you can't triangulate your heads and you have to do one single strip because of the right way you are basically going to have to overspray onto the street or have week spots because of the radius throw of the nozzle even if you are head to head.

Why can't you space sprinklers at 1/2 or 2/3 the limiting distance? That will help eliminate weak spots and still avoid watering hardscape.

Also, using sprays over rotators ain't gonna fix a coverage problem. The OP needs to put a design on paper before he makes any other decisions.

[Wet_Boots]

There is a rectangle strip pattern that might work with enough pressure. Toro and Rainbird both make a rectangular strip that does something like 9x18 at lower pressures.

[ArTurf]

Can you post a diagram of what you are trying to water and your proposed plan? Are you only putting heads on one side?

[irrig8r]

Can you post a diagram of what you are trying to water and your proposed plan? Are you only putting heads on one side?

Did you read his first post? He said it then and repeated it a couple of times.

He can't put heads in the right of way which takes up 10 ft. of the 12.5 ft. strip.

[GreenLight]

Why can't you space sprinklers at 1/2 or 2/3 the limiting distance? That will help eliminate weak spots and still avoid watering hardscape.

Also, using sprays over rotators ain't gonna fix a coverage problem. The OP needs to put a design on paper before he makes any other decisions.

Let me redefine weak spot, I mean zilch,Zero, nada... If you are using a radial based nozzle on a rectangle the only way to get full coverage is with overspray or opposing heads..we have established tha he can't have opposing heads so in order to accomplish coverage doesn't have spots of zero water is through overspraying the area...I don't care if you contract your head spacing to 1/3 or 1/2 or any number, its simply mathematically impossible..also considering it has a slight grade going up we know he can't count on runoff...
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[Kiril]

First, I said help to eliminate, not completely eliminate.

Second, you should put a design on paper along with a fair estimate for capillary water movement before you post saying the only way it can be done is by over spraying onto hardscape.

[CAPT Stream Rotar]

the trouble with mp's on turf is you need time...very poor precip rate

[ARGOS]

Strips are tough...especially if you can't have opposing heads. Capillary water movement might be limited considering there is a lot of sand in the soil. No one likes over spray. I am with Kiril. Lay it out on paper first with all the data you need (ie. gpm, pressure, soil type, plant type, grade, sprinklers used, etc.) You may not accomplish perfect distribution uniformity, but it sounds like getting close will work in this setting.

[bcg]

I think rotators are good for watering areas that are too big to do easily with sprays but too small for rotors and fixing problems due to low flow or pressure drops. I also prefer the Rainbird rotators to the MP but the MP is an adjustable arc so sometimes they have to be used.

In your case, I'd use sprays, either 12' radius on a PRS head and overlap or the 9' SST nozzle mentioned earlier on a non-pressure regulated head with a flow control valve and deal with the misting you're goig to get by putting enough pressure on them to cover 12'. My preference would be the 12' radius spray head. ONe other option, if you can get to 10' from the edge (I think you said you could) would be to run a row of regular SST's along your side and a row of 9SST's at the 10' mark. You'll have a couple of feet of overlap, though.

[Kiril]

Perhaps the better solution here is to bail on the turf and plant something that can live without supplemental water. This would be the easiest, cheapest, and most efficient way to handle this type of area.

[Tom Tom]

Second, you should put a design on paper along with a fair estimate for capillary water movement before you post saying the only way it can be done is by over spraying onto hardscape.

Here is a guide for that soil moisture uniformity estimate:

http://www.irrigation.org/gov/pdf/Brent_Mecham_Paper_results.pdf

[Karyl]

Perhaps the better solution here is to bail on the turf and plant something that can live without supplemental water. This would be the easiest, cheapest, and most efficient way to handle this type of area.

I'd love to do that but can't. My initial plans had nothing to do with turf but a lot of considerations made me nix anything but grass. Gas lines, water runs under it as well. Who knew a single small bit of turf would be a problem.

I am going to get a couple of different heads which were recommended, get an idea of how they actually work and go from there. Drawing it out is a must. Then when I realize my drawing and reality aren't quite lining up, I'll re-draw.

hey, "he" is a "she".

[Kiril]

Pictures are worth a thousand words. These two images show wetting profiles under a point source. First is a general distribution, second is specific to a sandy soil.

Click on pics for source docs.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/w3094e/w3094e24.GIF (http://www.fao.org/docrep/w3094e/w3094e05.htm)

http://www.fao.org/docrep/x5869e/x5869e1f.gif (http://www.fao.org/docrep/x5869e/x5869e04.htm)

[DanaMac]

We don't need no friggin' science. Wet it, keep it green, move on to the next project :)

[Kiril]

I'd love to do that but can't. My initial plans had nothing to do with turf but a lot of considerations made me nix anything but grass. Gas lines, water runs under it as well. Who knew a single small bit of turf would be a problem.

I am going to get a couple of different heads which were recommended, get an idea of how they actually work and go from there. Drawing it out is a must. Then when I realize my drawing and reality aren't quite lining up, I'll re-draw.

hey, "he" is a "she".

I wasn't necessarily suggesting trees, but instead low growing native perennials and grasses which would probably never pose a risk to city utilities.

[Kiril]

We don't need no friggin' science. Wet it, keep it green, move on to the next project :)

That is Boots method .... turn on sprinklers .... if everything looks wet then we a good ............ :hammerhead:

[Kiril]

I wasn't necessarily suggesting trees, but instead low growing native perennials and grasses which would probably never pose a risk to city utilities.

Follow up ..... sources for native plants in GA

http://www.gnps.org/resources/nativenurseries.html

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

You could use my famous doubled center strip method.

[Wet_Boots]

Perhaps the better solution here is to bail on the turf and plant something that can live without supplemental water. This would be the easiest, cheapest, and most efficient way to handle this type of area.Kiril can set you up with alternative groundcovers. He's a distributor! :)

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9646/rocksrus.jpg

[Kiril]

Kiril can set you up with alternative groundcovers. He's a distributor! :)

The grave yard is a fitting pic for you Boots, considering you will probably be making a permanent stop there within the next decade.

[DanaMac]

The grave yard is a fitting pic for you Boots, considering you will probably be making a permanent stop there within the next decade.

Damn. Where's the love, man? With as much animosity as you have towards him, I would have thought he had kicked your dog or something. Not a differing point of view in irrigation.

[Kiril]

Damn. Where's the love, man? With as much animosity as you have towards him, I would have thought he had kicked your dog or something. Not a differing point of view in irrigation.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? He posted the pic so it much be on his mind. Just thought it was appropriate to point out the irony of his pointless jab.

I love boots .... as much as I love getting kicked in the nuts.

[DanaMac]

I love boots .... as much as I love getting kicked in the nuts.

Well, there are some guys that like that. I believe there are entire websites devoted to it. So, not sure how to take your comment. :laugh:

[Wet_Boots]

Gee, and I worked extra hard to find a nice font for the sign :)

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

I wish you'd use your search time backing up your ridiculous statements in another area of this forum.

[Wet_Boots]

I think some of those posters purchased their brain material from Kiril's shop. :p

[Karyl]

I wasn't necessarily suggesting trees, but instead low growing native perennials and grasses which would probably never pose a risk to city utilities.

I am all about native plants and looked hard to find a solution - if you have any suggestions they are very welcomed. Turf does not like GA an it's a battle to grow. I love the bluestem cultivars - they certainly have stunning multi season color and interest, but are too tall. I nixed that because I couldn't find any sterile cultivars and bluestem seeds like mad - neighbors would hate it. I had finally settled on evergreen Arctostaphylos uva-ursi (bearberry) which hates being watered anyway and stays relatively short, grows great here, but there will be cars parking on it upon occasion. Tough plant, it probably could take it. Lots of sun. I get utility trucks out here often but I may need to revisit that idea. The HOA is also consideration. They are casual and been good to me so I try very hard to work with them. You can't see my house from the road. There is a line of evergreen trees, so that strip is the total presentation street view. HOA could handle a neat looking ground cover, but not a prairie look.

My first choice would be a grass alternative which people liked, set a good example and all (this is very important to me, I don't believe in fighting the system so to speak, but working with it), instead of the crazy native person whose yard looks like a freaking weed patch.

I'd get rid of the turf idea in a heartbeat. I just haven't found something cars can park on and the HOA would not balk at.

[Kiril]

I'm not all that familiar with Georgia natives even though I lived in northern FL for 5 years. There is a ground cover that is tough as nails and will handle vehicle traffic, but I can't remember the name of it, or if it is a GA native. I'll see if I can track it down, but in the meantime, here is a list if native GA ground covers. Maybe you can go through it and see if anything is appropriate.

http://www.georgiamastergardeners.com/articles/article/4928123/86318.htm

On another note ..... screw the HOA, what do they know anyhow? Set a good example by showing your neighbors you can have a beautiful yard without wasting precious resources (like potable water). :)

[Karyl]

My hoa is great. They are letting me restore the common land here, have it certified native plant with the Georgia Native Plant Society and wildlife habitat. They have a good sized budget for some landscaping and have agreed to companies that specialize in native design. I can't complain about the HOA and never want them to complain about me. Random people stop by my house and ask what that shrub is - I give away tons of plants, and residents I don't even know have asked for help with plant ID in their yards (very wooded here, little lawn, large lots). The positive reaction has surprised me - I'm very quiet and low key and had no idea people noticed. BUT if I could provide a reasonable grass alternative, others would follow. Who wants to mow and water?

I've got contacts in the native world - people who are great at it and may help come up with ideas. Also, gardenweb has a FL forum, I'll ask them if they know what you speak of. A local botanical garden is having a native event I am going to this weekend, I'll grill them. Then I will not worry about irrigation.

[Kiril]

My hoa is great. They are letting me restore the common land here, have it certified native plant with the Georgia Native Plant Society and wildlife habitat.

That is very cool. I retract my comment about your HOA.

I found the ground cover plant I was thinking about, however it is not native to North America.

Dymondia margaretae

I have seen people report they have used this stuff in their drive way, so I will assume that it will be able to withstand occasional vehicle traffic. The area I used it in was under a arbor that would see some occasional foot traffic, but has had limited success at getting established due to almost complete shading and almost complete flagstone coverage of the area. In your case, it may work great.

[Wet_Boots]

Interesting plant, that dymondia. Too bad it isn't more cold-hardy.