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bare spot
09-07-2009, 11:39 PM
weeping cherry (dlbe subhirtella), not sure how good the pictures are i'm gonna post but if u can see the rootstock has pretty much taken over. and from what i understand the branches from the woodstock get pruned off but this one seems pretty far gone, not much left of the cherry so i'm wondering is there a point where it becomes a foregone conclusion ( hope for the best)? anyway just wondering bout this and poss. maybe the best way to go about it, thanks

bare spot
09-08-2009, 03:24 AM
another angle, looks like grew above or through the cherry.

Smallaxe
09-08-2009, 06:21 AM
Not sure what you are talking about , but always prune anything below the graft.
Cherries are disease proned and short lived. Don't throw good money after bad, get a decent tree.

Dreams To Designs
09-08-2009, 07:22 PM
Your right. The rootstock has taken over and any chance of recovering a quality weeping cherry are very slim. We recently removed two 4" plus weeping cherries because the understock had taken over because of improper planting.

Kirk

Think Green
09-10-2009, 07:10 PM
Bare Spot,
I am not sure what happened to this cherry either.
Why are the weeping grafts removed?? Or did they die??
The only pruining that we do to the likes of Weeping Cherry or Mulberry, is remove the sucker shoots and the stalks that grow above the graft, or the ones that shoot out from the tops. IF the wild variety stalk is taking over then the tree has been pruned wrong or has outgrown the graft. You have the choice of either keeping it wild or replacing the tree--period.
We have 6 Weeping mulberry trees that for some reason, the root stalks died and the wild version of the root stock took over. We never have pruned the weeping stock off the trees, they seem to have died on their own. We skirt prune these types of trees as per customer choice.

bare spot
09-10-2009, 10:52 PM
Bare Spot,
I am not sure what happened to this cherry either.
Why are the weeping grafts removed?? Or did they die??
The only pruning that we do to the likes of Weeping Cherry or Mulberry, is remove the sucker shoots and the stalks that grow above the graft, or the ones that shoot out from the tops. IF the wild variety stalk is taking over then the tree has been pruned wrong or has outgrown the graft. You have the choice of either keeping it wild or replacing the tree--period.
We have 6 Weeping mulberry trees that for some reason, the root stalks died and the wild version of the root stock took over. We never have pruned the weeping stock off the trees, they seem to have died on their own. We skirt prune these types of trees as per customer choice.
not sure what happened, gotta meet up with the owner. there's nine of these, my best guess for now is they were pruned wrong etc., there's a few others that are not right either. got one, and didn't think this was possible (still not sure), but it looks like the rootstock (same leaves) grew up through the graft (same leaves as rootstock) and here's the thing got me, it's weeping. could it do that?, maybe that's what u mean by out grown the graft, will have to post a picture (gonna finish this job this weekend, few other things going on at this place).

Smallaxe
09-11-2009, 08:25 AM
The grafting process is either successful and the top of the plant carries the genetic material for the desired effect - or - the graft was unsuccessful.

Branches have grown around the graft, but I have never hear of through the graft or outgrow the graft.

It has been my experience that a lot of 'weeping or cascading' branches don't do as expected.

Isobel
09-11-2009, 11:19 AM
I've seen Cherries that do this, and the best way at this point--for the cherry pictured--is to rip it out and start anew.

bare spot
09-11-2009, 06:43 PM
few more pic's to hopefully help me understand this better. first two are of the tree i mentioned above, with branches and leaves similar to the root stalk but above the graft. not sure if i'm right on this but wanted to confirm that the root stalk can grow up through the graft and take over the tree that way? also took a pictue of one of the trees that are doing alright, show the difference, last picture. thanks btw meet up with the owner, guess one 161338 of the maintenance guys trimmed them last.

Think Green
09-11-2009, 08:02 PM
BareSpot,
Please excuse me for being fluff headed the other day on those responses.
Any of the weeping varieties of trees, shrubbery will at some point outgrow the weeping stock. Hybrid Tea roses, Grandiflora and the Floribunda are varieties that have been grafted onto a same species stock. There is a point where the mother stock will send out shoots from the trunk. This is nature's way of finding a way to survive. These stems are usually cut off at the trunk. Each node on the trunk will send out new branches. Survival of the fittest!!!!
The mulberry's that we are having trouble with, were neglected before we took over this one account. The weeping grafts are still intact, but the original stock of wild mulberry has taken over. We have been successful with keeping the straight stems cut off but they will always return................that is the maintenance part of the plant.
Weeping willows will revert back to the original plant. Needlepoint hollies if trimmed back too far will revert back to the American Holly.............the one with more thorns.
In going back to the rose issue..........my wife cut back one of my Jackson Perkins Hybrid Tea's because it was getting in the way of our gate. I advised her of how far back to cut it...................well, she cut it back within an inch of the trunk and lower than should have. The rose recovered but so did these long arching climbing stems with excessively larger thorns and less than desireable size of blooms. I am comparing apples to oranges here, but anytime grafting is done, the root stock stem has the genetic code for whatever species it is. Eventhough another type of grafting stem was placed onto the stock, it will take but you will have to deal with the original species as well. Some come back with thorns like the wild cherry, apple, pear, and plum. At our new house, we have 4 of those Lowe's Moonglow pear trees. They beared fruit this year and some new sprouts from the top and from the base. There are thorns on these branches...............???
Years ago, I read of a Northern Company that sold this fruit tree through a mail order catalogue. It had 4 different grafts of trees on one stock..........!!! My father in law bought one............it didn't do too well.........obviously!!! Freak's of man made science usually don't live for long. It would have been something to see a tree with apples, pears, plums, and oranges growing from the same tree?????? Whatever!!

Whichever the case, these cherries on your photos did seem to have been mispruned. The training process of these trees is time consuming. The trees will need to be prune trained to keep those weeping stems active and the other species of stems from becoming the dominant branch.

The site where these trees are growing............is this an abandoned gravel pit, parking lot or what??
The growing site is terrible and these trees will have a hellova time surviving anyway!!

bare spot
09-12-2009, 11:02 PM
think green, yes, site's not the best, guess they had dirt brought in, tree's are along a this side road leading into the place, pretty sizeable place (for me at least) had to work this job into the schedule. with these tree's, how they are grafted, the maintenance, etc. owner wasn't aware of this, that and the maintenance man trimming, guess be safe to say not good. although i don't know bout that one with the rootstalk weeping. think green, all, thanks