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View Full Version : How would You Fix this Paver Walkway?


Flapjack
09-08-2009, 06:33 PM
Guys -

Our house has a front walkway that was installed when the house was built 18 years ago. Overall it has held up quite well. Right now there are three issues.

Background:

The builder poured a concrete pad instead of a stone base. On top of that is 1” of stone dust, and then the pavers. Plastic edging is used and it is staked into the ground – on dirt, not a base.

The issues:

1) Over time, the edging has been pushed out and also heaved in a few places. The main area of the walkway is fine, but the border pavers are now dipped down along the edge.

2) Moss between the pavers. Normally we annually spray for weeds, so they can be dealt with, but it doesn’t get the moss and my wife would prefer to have no moss. The pictures below show weeds since we didn’t spray this year, knowing that we had to do a repair. There are ants this year too.

3) We just had our driveway repaved which added almost 2 inches to the height next to the end of the walkway. The pavers need to be raised at that end to be flush again with the driveway.

Thoughts on solutions:

1) Get rid of the plastic edging and replace with Permaloc aluminum StructurEdge. Excavate 6” on each side of the walkway. Add a gravel base and compact. Install Permaloc on top of base with 10” spikes 12” O.C. (like below schematic).
161010

2) Remove all of the pavers and dispose of the stone dust. Use 1” of concrete sand for the setting bed. Lay pavers and fill joints with polymeric stabilizing sand.

3) To raise the pavers up in height, I was thinking that the best way might be to pour additional concrete on the existing concrete pad base to bring it up.

What do you think? What would you do differently??

Thanks for any help and advice!

Pictures:
161007
161008
161009

AztlanLC
09-08-2009, 09:02 PM
If the all the pavers are set on concrete and is in decent shape, this what I would do, take all pavers out get more of the same if you can find them or even better get a thicker paver for the border, mortar down the pavers for the border and raise them up tho be even with the black top, mortar down all the border to the concrete so you can raise it up about an inch higher or less,cut the black top so pavers fit tight, drill weeping holes and then (I know the concrete sand police will yell at me) put down 1/4" gravel you will never get ants, if you use concrete sand make sure you put down geotextile fabric, install polymeric sand compact lightly even a hand tamper would do.
I would definitely lay the border as soldier course and wouldn't save all the smalls pieces or try fit them in the same spot.
Moss usually develops due to shade and moisture make sure the walkway is draining correctly if over time starts to develop spray a little bit of bleach mix with water that usually kills it.

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
09-08-2009, 09:52 PM
bull dose it and start from scratch

Bru75
09-09-2009, 12:57 AM
If the concrete base is in good condition, I say get rid of the old pavers and put down flagstone or thicker pavers in mortar.
If you do reinstall pavers on concrete sand, polymeric sand is a no-no over a concrete base, it has to have drainage.
Or, as southerngreenscapes said, tear it all out and start from scratch.

AztlanLC
09-09-2009, 06:43 PM
I don't see nothing wrong with those pavers they complement the house nicely, stone sounds good too but I'm pretty sure he's trying to keep cost down and be able to do it himself, I still think you can mortar the border and do a dry laid after that

PerfiCut L&L
09-09-2009, 08:11 PM
[QUOTE=Bru75;3180069]....If you do reinstall pavers on concrete sand, polymeric sand is a no-no over a concrete base, it has to have drainage.
....QUOTE]

Bru75, is this statement correct? Are you saying that using poly sand to lock the pavers in is a no-no, or did you mean, using poly sand as a leveling base was a no-no.

The first part of your sentence suggests the use of concrete sand as a leveling base, and that to use poly sand for joint stabelization is a no-no. Or atleast thats how I read it.

-------------------------------------------------------

I would suggest one of two things. If your going through the effort of taking all the stones up. Then take the concrete out, and start from scratch. lay your base accordingly bringing it up to the grade you need.

The othe option is excavate 6-8" wider on either side, and mortar down your border stones. Install and compact base aggrigate to bring the walk up to grade so the pavers will matche the drive. Dont forget to leave 1/2-1" for the leveling sand. Feather this elevation change into the rest of the walkway so you have an even change in grade.

Good Luck

AztlanLC
09-09-2009, 08:39 PM
I would suggest one of two things. If your going through the effort of taking all the stones up. Then take the concrete out, and start from scratch. lay your base accordingly bringing it up to the grade you need.

The othe option is excavate 6-8" wider on either side, and mortar down your border stones. Install and compact base aggrigate to bring the walk up to grade so the pavers will matche the drive. Dont forget to leave 1/2-1" for the leveling sand. Feather this elevation change into the rest of the walkway so you have an even change in grade.

Good Luck

I don't get it why excavate 6-8"

Also polymeric sand is not recommend it by manufactures when you mortar down all pavers

Flapjack
09-09-2009, 09:29 PM
AztlanLC is right...I'm looking to keep the cost down and do it myself. I'm certainly not going to bulldoze a perfectly good base that has served us well.

I am also wondering the same questions as PerfiCut. I'll be bummed if I can't use poly sand to lock the pavers.

Bru75
09-09-2009, 09:34 PM
[QUOTE=Bru75;3180069]....If you do reinstall pavers on concrete sand, polymeric sand is a no-no over a concrete base, it has to have drainage.
....QUOTE]

Bru75, is this statement correct? Are you saying that using poly sand to lock the pavers in is a no-no, or did you mean, using poly sand as a leveling base was a no-no.

The first part of your sentence suggests the use of concrete sand as a leveling base, and that to use poly sand for joint stabelization is a no-no. Or atleast thats how I read it.

-------------------------------------------------------

I would suggest one of two things. If your going through the effort of taking all the stones up. Then take the concrete out, and start from scratch. lay your base accordingly bringing it up to the grade you need.

The othe option is excavate 6-8" wider on either side, and mortar down your border stones. Install and compact base aggrigate to bring the walk up to grade so the pavers will matche the drive. Dont forget to leave 1/2-1" for the leveling sand. Feather this elevation change into the rest of the walkway so you have an even change in grade.

Good Luck

Sorry if I wasn't clear, what I mean is if he keeps the old concrete and puts the pavers over it, then polysand should not be used. But, if he tears out the concrete and starts from scratch as you suggest, then polysand would be correct.
I think that starting from scratch would be best.

Flapjack
09-09-2009, 10:14 PM
What if there is leveling sand between the concrete base and the pavers? Still no polysand?

Rex Mann
09-09-2009, 11:08 PM
Polymeric sand can be used over a concrete base if a sand setting bed is used. The ASTM 33 sand will allow the water to drain down thru the sand and over the concrete.

Remember to use a geo textile over the concrete, then install your bedding sand.

Good luck.

Rex

http://PaversInstalled.Com

Follow us on Twitter @PaversInstalled

Flapjack
09-09-2009, 11:16 PM
Thanks Rex!

Moneypit
09-09-2009, 11:57 PM
What is the purpose of the geo textile over the concrete?

Rex Mann
09-10-2009, 01:37 AM
When the concrete cracks, the geo textile prevents the sand from going into the crack(s)

Peace,

Rex

http://PaversInstalled.Com

Follow us on Twitter @PaversInstalled.Com

Stillwater
09-10-2009, 02:23 AM
A simple repair and modification job... I have soiled myself laughing at some of the posted suggestions.

AztlanLC
09-10-2009, 11:56 AM
one more reason I would use 1/4" stone is to avoid using geotextile you have to really make sure you put it correctly otherwise water will wash out the sand, also don forget to drill some holes in the concrete to allow water to drain out or leave some weeping holes in the mortar along the border.
Rex is right poly can be used if a dry laid system is used.

Bru75
09-10-2009, 03:18 PM
Am I alone? I've always been told not to use polymeric in a concrete overlay, even setting in sand. I assumed that it was because even with holes drilled in the base there might not be enough drainage.
Oh well, If you guys are right then I guess I have learned something.

Ramairfreak98ss
09-10-2009, 08:43 PM
bull dose it and start from scratch

yeah, that things hideous... talk them into some new stone.. your gonna be making cuts and pulling it all up anyway right

AztlanLC
09-11-2009, 10:19 AM
only on 100% wet installations poly is not recommend.

and ramair I think he is the home owner

Isobel
09-11-2009, 12:46 PM
i would rip out the pavers, take out the setting course of stone dust, and examine the concrete pad. if the pad is sound re-lay the pavers in mortar.

Hollowellreid
09-12-2009, 10:50 PM
That is not a "paver" as everyone is saying. Natural clay flashed or (what looks to be) sand cast brick. It is really a nice product that ages well and looks good. I may be biased, but that clay brick is going to be nicer in the long run than any paver product you use. Flagstone/bluestone would look good but so many cast concrete products are just ugly in comparison.

For what it's worth...

Flapjack
09-13-2009, 09:42 PM
Thanks Hollowellreid...I appreciate the positive comments.

Thank you to everyone who has offered suggestions.