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View Full Version : What are some dealers thinking these days?


ertb
09-09-2009, 07:00 PM
I am looking at a Scag 19 kaw 48" tiger cat.A dealer told me today that he could put me in one for $8000.00 plus tax, like he was taking care of me. At a price this high I will not even try to work with him.

Mike Blevins
09-09-2009, 07:14 PM
I am looking at a Scag 19 kaw 48" tiger cat.A dealer told me today that he could put me in one for $8000.00 plus tax, like he was taking care of me. At a price this high I will not even try to work with him.

I wouldn't work with him either. Sounds like he's trying to make all his money off of you. Local Exmark dealer is the same way. He wants nearly 13000.00 for a new model gas Exmark. :hammerhead: I think if people wait till spring next year you will find that some prices have fallen and the financing options will be a lot better also. :usflag:

mjealey
09-09-2009, 07:41 PM
I am with you. I tried dealing with Scag dealers and they wouldn't come off there prices at all. This was last year when I was looking at the same mower but it was a Tiger Cub. I tried 4 dealers here in East Tenessee and they were the biggest sticklers and thought their poop didn't stink. The only price I could get was the msrp of 6999. Iasked them what they could do and they all said theat is non-negotiable and that is the price they sold them for. I found a demo unit in Ohio for $1000 less and didn't have to pay tax. I can't say anything good about the Scag dealers around here at all.

ertb
09-09-2009, 08:58 PM
I was thinking I could get one for around $7000 out the door. Boy was I wrong, the dealers around here prices were $7400,$7800, and $8000 plus tax. Scags are great mowers but you have to draw a line somewhere.

JCPM
09-09-2009, 10:59 PM
I used a 800 series Deere demo when my 757 was being worked on and figured I could buy it cheap as a backup. The dealer had it out front for a year and a half and it had 150 hrs on it. I fthought I could grab it for around 6k out the door cause he had it so long and the 800s had so many issues with them. He quoted me 9k. Needless to say it's still sitting there three months later.

mjealey
09-09-2009, 11:28 PM
I talked to a close friend of mine, and no he is not a Scag dealer and he is all the time telling me how there is not the mark-up that you think. Usually, if you pay cash you can get about $200 off. If you are financing you can get about $100.00 off. However, for local Scag companies that is non-exitent.

This really burned me up. This was before prices went up last year. One Scag dealer had Scag Tiger Cubs from early in the year left over toward the end of summer last year. I know he had gotten them months earlier. He quoted me $7499.00 and said that Scag raised their prices. I looked at him and told him very nicely that i know better and know you bought those mowers months ago before Scag ever thought about raising prices and you just quoted me $600 less on the exact same mower a month earlier as it was still sitting outside. I guess he didn't remeber me. He just looked at me and didn't know what to say and fumbled over his words a little. Finally he said, "Oh, you are right that is one of our older ones.: I had a stupid $25 Honda gas can and a large spool of line in my hand. I didn't say anything and just put them back on the shelf and thanked him for his time. He lost my business for the Tiger Cub, and the 61" LC Turf Tiger I am in the market for now, plus all my blowers and trimmers. I guess the $20,000.00 of business and referals weren't important to him.

I am just being patient and going to wait and see if there are any sales or specials at the very beginning of the spring. Don't know if I will buy local b/c of this.

Kykutter
09-09-2009, 11:29 PM
I am looking at a Scag 19 kaw 48" tiger cat.A dealer told me today that he could put me in one for $8000.00 plus tax, like he was taking care of me. At a price this high I will not even try to work with him.

Must not be to worried about making any sales.

My dealer here in west KY. quoted me a Wildcat 61in. 26lc Kaw. for 8500 out the door today.Scag does have rebates on some models now through the end of the year. Might mention that and see where it gets you.

lawns Etc
09-10-2009, 12:19 AM
If there is not a 15-20% markup on equipment and 40 plus% markup on parts they would not be in buisness. You are not going to stock something that cost 8000 for $200 profit no way I would bet full retail is at least 25% markup which I am willing to pay if the dealer takes care of me but I wont buy parts at that markup.

Turf Dawg
09-10-2009, 12:35 AM
I will not say he is high or reasonable. What I will say is that a good dealer can be a great asset. If he really will take care of you after the sale then that is worth a lot.

One thing that I have learned is that some dealers are like lawn companies. They price themselves out of the business because they want to sell but then cannot afford to stock necessary parts. I will give a little more money if I find a dealer that has parts and gives timely service. I also like to meet the "middle man" that the dealers use. I have my dealers numbers and the "middle mans" phone numbers on my cell.

You my beat a price anyplace but it may cost you in the long run. If you have to skip several properties that is money you can never make back and heaven forbid if it cost you a client.

Just my thoughts on dealers and prices.

MikeKle
09-10-2009, 01:08 AM
I thought the same thing when I was quoted almost $9000. for a turf tracer!!! 9 grand for a walkbehind?? What are these people smoking? I ended up buying a ferris 61" with 23hp kawi for around $6000. What makes that exmark cost $3000 more? That is absurd. I think its becasue the dealers and manufactuers know that we do pretty well in this business and they want their cut! Because they know we need these mowers so we will pay whatever they decide to charge? Their profit margin must be very high. All this bulls$%* about high material prices are lies, mild steel has been low for quite awhile now. It only spiked higher around the time oil was high, and wasnt high for long.

newz7151
09-10-2009, 01:10 AM
If there is not a 15-20% markup on equipment and 40 plus% markup on parts they would not be in buisness. You are not going to stock something that cost 8000 for $200 profit no way I would bet full retail is at least 25% markup which I am willing to pay if the dealer takes care of me but I wont buy parts at that markup.

Please buy all your future equipment from Lowes and Home Depot (or Sears), your local dealers will thank you.

topsites
09-10-2009, 03:13 AM
Don't feel bad...

The Toro 48" fixed deck 15hp gear drive Wb?
I paid $3000 for my 2004 one, plus a velke and tax, might've been 3400, brand new.

Today I got a quote...
$3,700 before tax
Just the mower, no bagger no extras no nothing.

So I am guessing I'm going to just have to keep running the old stuff,
I just can't see paying dang near 4 grand for a fixed deck, hell the float
deck belt drives are dang near 5 thousand!!!

Ridiculous.
Found one on Ebay for 3100 but it's in Michigan...

eatonpcat
09-10-2009, 07:58 AM
Found one on Ebay for 3100 but it's in Michigan...

Hey Topsites.... The war is over (Civil), It will be OK if you venture north of the Mason/Dixon line. Hell make it a road trip, come thru Cleveland and I'll buy you a few cocktails.:laugh:

lawns Etc
09-10-2009, 09:18 AM
Please buy all your future equipment from Lowes and Home Depot (or Sears), your local dealers will thank you.

I dont even haggle pricing on mowers I pay what they want but they know they should take care of me as I buy 2-3 mowers at least every 2 yrs sometimes more. Parts I only buy there if I cant get them online. I have a pretty big history on retail and no way is a dealer going to make 5% markup on a 10k item. My Dixie dealer is a friend and he says there is a bit more than 15% markup after freight and everything to the door after setup time and all.But they deserve the profit on the sale why put out $8500 Cost to turn it into $8700 if they say they only make a couple hundred thats nothing. I have delt with most dealers around me and the only item that I price shopped was my Kubota L2800 tractor loader and I saved almost $2k but I dont use it daily to need a dealers service in a flash like a mower that I put 100 hrs a month on.

MikeKle
09-10-2009, 09:29 AM
Whats wrong with making $200. on the sale of a $8500. mower? Thats a pretty good profit when you think that $200. is all profit. The new mower just sits there until sold anyway, its not like you have to feed or clothe it??? If I could buy something wholesale and re-sell it for $200. more, I would do it in a heartbeat!!! And we are talking about volume too, they sell more than a few mowers in a week so they would make plenty of profit?? But its all about greed and people wanting as much as they can possibly get!!!

lawns Etc
09-10-2009, 11:07 AM
I am not a dealer but to put out that kind of investment for such a small return simply doesnt add up they sell say 3 mowers a week at $200 profit each they have electric,payroll,parts inventory,insurance and many other factors as well to support, Its just like a lawn customer not understanding my pricing for a $50 lawn that takes 2 guys 15 minutes we have overhead that has to be covered or you will not last. My dealer knows he cant compete with the prices that I pay for blades but in a jam I will man up and pay his $20 each if I need a set today but its rare because I order 50 at a time in the spring but if I need to I will pay his price. Belts I only buy OEM from the dealer but I save hundreds a year on blades and filters buy shopping at Expressmowerparts.

KarambaStar
09-10-2009, 04:48 PM
Whats wrong with making $200. on the sale of a $8500. mower? Thats a pretty good profit when you think that $200. is all profit. The new mower just sits there until sold anyway, its not like you have to feed or clothe it??? If I could buy something wholesale and re-sell it for $200. more, I would do it in a heartbeat!!! And we are talking about volume too, they sell more than a few mowers in a week so they would make plenty of profit?? But its all about greed and people wanting as much as they can possibly get!!!

Spend a little time on the other side of the counter, and you will quickly understand why $200 profit isn't enough.

pugs
09-10-2009, 05:13 PM
Whats wrong with making $200. on the sale of a $8500. mower? Thats a pretty good profit when you think that $200. is all profit. The new mower just sits there until sold anyway, its not like you have to feed or clothe it??? If I could buy something wholesale and re-sell it for $200. more, I would do it in a heartbeat!!! And we are talking about volume too, they sell more than a few mowers in a week so they would make plenty of profit?? But its all about greed and people wanting as much as they can possibly get!!!

So you are going to unload it from a truck. Keep it warehoused with a roof over its head. Unpack it from its crate(royal PITA for some). Go through all the setup procedures(doubt most dealers do every thing on the lists). Spend time with probably multiple customers to try to sell it. Maybe end up paying finance charges because now it has sat on your floor for a lengthy time....all for 200? I think you should become a dealer and put us all out of business.

tacoma200
09-10-2009, 05:31 PM
I never have a problem getting a good deal, or at least so far. Good thing the Scags will probably last over a decade. Last 3 purchases were as follows:

2005 Exmark Lazer 60" Z 27 Kohler $8,200(+-)
2006 Scag Turf Tiger 61" 31 Briggs $8,400(+-)
2009 Scag Turf Tiger 61" 35 Briggs $9,600(+-)

Last quote for a 34 hp new Lazer was a bit high at $10,600 if I remember correctly but add a suspensnion seat and it would have been over $11,000. I still think I could get it a lot cheaper.

I start by calling the largest Scag dealer in the state and seeing what the best price is and work my way to the local dealers to see how they compare. I actually want my dealer to make a bit of money though. I think $400-$500 would be fair but I'm not a dealer and I don't know their overhead. I always end up buying local though even if it was a bit higher. I probably should have kept my last lazer but I used it 3 years and only lost $3,000 on it. That's cheap per year usage.

brucec32
09-10-2009, 06:56 PM
Based on my recent experience trying to refresh my equipment fleet, the state of affairs in the mower equipment industry is pretty bad. From half-hearted dealerships that switch brands every few years, to almost no inventory available to inspect, much less try out, to sales personnel who can't be bothered to look up a price or order an item, web sites that are full of innacuracies on specs, to prices that seem out of touch with economic reality. (e.g. Selling a 21' mower for $1450 when it sold for less 3 years ago during a boom)

Unfortunately this business is like a lot in America. The easy days are over, it's survival of the fittest. Dealers and brands who don't step it up will fail.

GravelyNut
09-10-2009, 11:26 PM
So you are going to unload it from a truck. Keep it warehoused with a roof over its head. Unpack it from its crate(royal PITA for some). Go through all the setup procedures(doubt most dealers do every thing on the lists). Spend time with probably multiple customers to try to sell it. Maybe end up paying finance charges because now it has sat on your floor for a lengthy time....all for 200? I think you should become a dealer and put us all out of business.

And in the case of some Scag models, royal doesn't describe what it takes. The dealer does final assembly of wheels, seat, ROPS, ect. Then you test and setup the steering and engine speeds. I'll check in the morning what we can sell one for right now as there are rebates for used mowers too. Scag calls it Cash for Junkers.

GravelyNut
09-11-2009, 10:50 AM
Only ones we have right now are ones with the 27 HP Kohler and the 52" deck at $8999. And one with the 23 Kohler with a 48" at $8499. We do have a Tiger Cub ( which is the Tiger Cat under the old name )with the setup you want at $6999. We run between $700 and $1000 below list right now on any model before any of the rebates.

That might explain why we've sold a dozen of them in the past 3 months.

MikeKle
09-11-2009, 11:08 AM
Since there seems to be a few dealers on here, What would you consider to be a good profit on a $9000. mower? Taking all the set-up costs and preliminary maint. on it into consideration too? Im just curious what dealers profit currently is. Also kinda curious what the manufactuers profit is, Im guessing their cost to build the mower is somewhere around 30% of the retail cost?

GravelyNut
09-11-2009, 02:48 PM
Since there seems to be a few dealers on here, What would you consider to be a good profit on a $9000. mower? Taking all the set-up costs and preliminary maint. on it into consideration too? Im just curious what dealers profit currently is. Also kinda curious what the manufactuers profit is, Im guessing their cost to build the mower is somewhere around 30% of the retail cost?
That depends on what the OEMs are offering at the time and how close to a price break point. If it takes a $200 over invoice to keep a customer as a customer, we've done that. It hurts at times, but you do what you can to make the sale.

When we bought our second Gravely here, the dealer needed to sell one more unit to be the top one in the area. Gravely was having a contest and the sale was based on an extra attachment being installed. Attachment ended up being free as that ended the contest and the dealer one.

DUSTYCEDAR
09-11-2009, 03:06 PM
prices r scary
how would you feel if the customer wanted to play lets make a deal?????
it all cost big bucks to mow grass
you have to shop to keep up

tallimeca
09-11-2009, 03:32 PM
i've posted about 206 million times about this.

Dealers aren't making 4500 on a 9k sale guys.

If the suggested price is say 11k, sale or promo price is 10k. Dealer is paying about 8600 for the machine on average. 100 for freight. 2 hours labor for uncrating and setup time. 2-3% the finance company charges the dealer for running financing. Plus all the haggling time and paperwork time. That dealers actual cost just went up and they are pulling 10% profit off the bat. Then, if they gave you any kind of discount, or threw in an OCDC kit or something, it's even less.

I know your first thought that comes to mind......jeez they just made 1k for selling a mower, what's the problem, i have to cut a billion lawns to do that.

The fact of the matter is that profit margin isn't enough to support the overhead of running a dealership. Rent, insurances, payroll, health insurance, utilites, floor plan interest charges, retail financing charges, ......that 1k bucks is didely squat. I'd need to sell about 20 more of them just to cover my payroll for the month.......

Everything is not what it seems.

Just like I think it's rediculous to pay a guy 40 bucks a week to cut my lawn, when I can do it myself in 20 minutes on my rider. But I run a buisness and know you aren't putting 40 bucks in your pocket. You are paying overhead.

If I was collecting my NET on my books, I wouldn't be sitting here typing on a landscaper forum. The bottom line is what matters and for many companies over the past two years.......its been highlighted in red.

Some of the comments I read on here makes me wonder how some of the guys that post can run a business successfully when they can't understand that a dealership can't shut their doors and go home for the week after they sell you a ZTR mower....hahaha.

lawns Etc
09-11-2009, 04:08 PM
Exactly what I am trying to say. It takes profit just to break even in the long run.

GravelyNut
09-11-2009, 04:52 PM
Exactly what I am trying to say. It takes profit just to break even in the long run.
In manufacturing, it takes a 100% markup from a raw casting to a finished part to cover everything if you do it from start to finish. That means from the ingots to the sale to the customer and all overhead included.