97% of the water tested had pesticides

[ICT Bill]

This is a study even Bubba will have a hard time with

male and female fish at the same time???

97% of the water tested nationwide had at least 1 pesticide, over 20% had 10 pesticides.

84% of those tests were greater than aquatic-life benchmarks

http://www.ictorganics.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/home.showpage/pageID/27/index.htm

[Smallaxe]

It's another example of how it has become impossible for this culture to exercise self gov't. I know how potato farmers think and why there are so many pesticides on their way to the water table and on their way to the Delta. It is pretty close to the same reason the potatoes taste so bad.

[terrapro]

Can I link that to my webpage?

[LushGreenLawn]

This is a prime example of why pesticide use by homeowners should be regulated or even banned. Pesticide use should be reserved for professionals.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ICT Bill]

This is a prime example of why pesticide use by homeowners should be regulated or even banned. Pesticide use should be reserved for professionals.
Posted via Mobile Device

I had that very conversation with a franchise owner of lawn doctor yesterday. It seems reasonable, I believe that there are safer alternatives to the practices now being used. We have proven some of them

Potatoes for instance, there are some wonderful alternatives to pesticides in potatoes

Look at the graphic on page 27 on how these things move, it does not matter if you use them or not the farm 20 or 200 miles away affects your area

terrapro, link away, please

[benjammin]

97% of the water tested nationwide had at least 1 pesticide, over 20% had 10 pesticides.


I'm willing to bet test results of municipal water from surface water sources were worse than deep wells.
I know communties try to force people to hook up to municpal water rather than keep using their private well. If this ever happens, have the municipal water tested and have your well tested and assuming your well results are better, threaten a lawsuit if you are forced to connect to municipal water.

[ICT Bill]

The study does not say if the wells are deep or shallow it does say
Nationally, water samples for pesticide analysis were collected from 186 stream sites within the 51 Study Units, bed-sediment samples were collected from 1,052 stream sites, and fish samples were collected from 700 stream sites. Ground-water samples were collected from 5,047 wells.

but goes on to say
Sampling
sites for streams and ground water were selected to represent the specific agricultural, urban, undeveloped, and mixed-land-use settings of greatest significance to water resources in the primary hydrologic settings within each of the Study Units. Shallow ground water (generally less than 20 ft below the water table) was sampled in agricultural, urban, and undeveloped areas, whereas deeper ground water was sampled from wells that tap major aquifers, most of which are affected by a mixture of land uses and are important as potential sources of drinking water.

[DUSTYCEDAR]

SO BILL is that why you dont drink water anymore?

[ICT Bill]

SO BILL is that why you dont drink water anymore?

Yeah only martini's for me, dirty martini's

I forgot to mention, it is a big file, over 30 meg. It may take a while on dial up. but who has dial up anymore? not me not for years and years

[mdlwn1]

Yeah only martini's for me, dirty martini's

I forgot to mention, it is a big file, over 30 meg. It may take a while on dial up. but who has dial up anymore? not me not for years and years

As bad as that is.....it doesnt mean very much in relation to everything else thats in the water. What if they tested the water for EVERY known anything. Would the pesticides be 1 of 6000 problems? Too bad nobody has come up with inexpensive, solid, results oriented competiton to pesticides.....

[ICT Bill]

As bad as that is.....it doesnt mean very much in relation to everything else thats in the water. What if they tested the water for EVERY known anything. Would the pesticides be 1 of 6000 problems? Too bad nobody has come up with inexpensive, solid, results oriented competiton to pesticides.....

I agree with you but do not have data on the other "stuff", this is solid data collected over a long time period

I'll raise my hand here
mangement of ticks, mosquitoes, fleas, ants and many others - Essential-1, EPA 25b exempt formulation

A product you are about to hear about soon that will kick the stuffing out of weeds, a non-selective herbicide and very inexpensive

Liquid corn gluten meal, excellent management of crab grass and many other weed seeds

Our NPP for managing fungal disease, also EPA exempt

Nematode control, go no further than our EPA exempt product that cost 1/3 the price of what is being used

Inoculate the seed at planting to overcome many long term issues, the plants are inoculated. much like going to get a flu vacine, you have little chance getting it after the inoculation

data is coming back for the second year on grub control in the next week or so

the commercial is over but I just wanted to make you aware, there are other ways to do this. They are simple, easy and non toxic.

[phasthound]

I attended an industry meeting tonight. One of the topics under discussion was how environmental regulations against pesticides and fertilizer runoff was based on "junk science" and would put landscapers out of business.

I've been hearing this for 30 years. The regulations have grown much tougher and the "green" industry is huge compared to 30 years ago. The argument doesn't hold water.

One wise person made the comment that we are a service based industry, not product based. Smart business people who learn to adapt and provide effective, economical results using less pesticides and excessive nutrient will do well.

[CFB]

...much like going to get a flu vacine, you have little chance getting it after the inoculation

.

FYI... Not only is there zero evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing flu, there is substantial and damning evidence of complications and illness that far exceed any possible benifet (which there is none) from a flu vaccine. Ex. The glaxo vaccine pandremix has 1 million times more squalene than the vaccine that caused gulf war syndrome. Squalene is banned from use by the Pentagon by a court order but Glaxoklinesmith ain't the Pentagon. Mercury is also a confirmed ingredient in their swine flu vaccine and very prevalent in our water supply. Flouride is purposely put in (some of) our water which is rat poison. PUre 100% poison ...but hey it hardens our teeth.

[ICT Bill]

FYI... Not only is there zero evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing flu, there is substantial and damning evidence of complications and illness that far exceed any possible benifet (which there is none) from a flu vaccine. Ex. The glaxo vaccine pandremix has 1 million times more squalene than the vaccine that caused gulf war syndrome. Squalene is banned from use by the Pentagon by a court order but Glaxoklinesmith ain't the Pentagon. Mercury is also a confirmed ingredient in their swine flu vaccine and very prevalent in our water supply. Flouride is purposely put in (some of) our water which is rat poison. PUre 100% poison ...but hey it hardens our teeth.

As Barnie Frank said: exactly which planet are you from?

[Smallaxe]

While irrigated sandy fields with potatoes and shallow water tables actually contain much of the leached residue of farming activity - most of the stuff in rivers are from the city. There is a city or town every few miles down a river valley and when you see the stuff in storm gutters, plus what is dissolved in the runoff, it is pretty difficult to blame it all on farmers.

The remark about professionals only handling pesticides and fertilizer is a joke for the most part. Professionals NEED to put down an invisible barrier twice every spring :laugh: A barrier against CG doesn't affect anything else. :laugh:

[Kiril]

The remark about professionals only handling pesticides and fertilizer is a joke for the most part. Professionals NEED to put down an invisible barrier twice every spring :laugh: A barrier against CG doesn't affect anything else. :laugh:

Generally I would agree. Most of the HO's out here are too lazy to apply anything on their yard, yet the fert and squirt/program guys will convince them that they need X applications of Y products every year.

Then there are the HO's that work on the mentality that mo is better .... but then you have professionals that do the same.

All of this is moot because the chem and fert corps ain't gonna let any major legislation get in their way of making a profit.

[Kiril]

BTW, here is the link to the actual publication without the sales pitch, sorry Bill.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/2005/1291/

[ICT Bill]

BTW, here is the link to the actual publication without the sales pitch, sorry Bill.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/2005/1291/

thanks Kiril, I was trying to find it and could only find a summary page that had a lot of fluff in it

[Smallaxe]

Lake homes are again under threat of gov't takeover, in that WiDNR is going to maintain absolute control over everything 1000 feet off the shoreline.

This will hand over, not only the lake homes, but the neighborhoods across the street to the WiDNR. This will in effect make one woman in the beauracracy in charge of everything you do for landscaping around your house as well as how your house is maintained. These beaurocrats have little clue about caring for the shoreline and actually penalize anyone who does something to preserve the shoreline. Cities are exempt.

Unfortunately, the 'educated' masses, believe what the textbooks tell them and will not observe for themselves what is and has happened to any given shoreline over the recorded history to the present. If the textbook says: "The filling in of a section of lake with leaves and muck is good for the fish..." - people will believe it - even though you can see there are no fish in the swamplike area for 50 feet to open water.

[ICT Bill]

Lake homes are again under threat of gov't takeover, in that WiDNR is going to maintain absolute control over everything 1000 feet off the shoreline.

This will hand over, not only the lake homes, but the neighborhoods across the street to the WiDNR. This will in effect make one woman in the beauracracy in charge of everything you do for landscaping around your house as well as how your house is maintained. These beaurocrats have little clue about caring for the shoreline and actually penalize anyone who does something to preserve the shoreline. Cities are exempt.

Unfortunately, the 'educated' masses, believe what the textbooks tell them and will not observe for themselves what is and has happened to any given shoreline over the recorded history to the present. If the textbook says: "The filling in of a section of lake with leaves and muck is good for the fish..." - people will believe it - even though you can see there are no fish in the swamplike area for 50 feet to open water.

This is very common for lakes that are used as a municpal water source, since 9/11 many have taken steps to keep people away from lakes supplying cities. Makes sense to me, I would think you would not want septic systems near a city water source

It seems liek an unlikely scenario that someone could poison folks thru the lake water but these guys take it pretty seriously

You seem to bang this drum often, leaves in lakes. obviously you feel serious about it, but it must be very localized

[Smallaxe]

This is very common for lakes that are used as a municpal water source, since 9/11 many have taken steps to keep people away from lakes supplying cities. Makes sense to me, I would think you would not want septic systems near a city water source

It seems liek an unlikely scenario that someone could poison folks thru the lake water but these guys take it pretty seriously

You seem to bang this drum often, leaves in lakes. obviously you feel serious about it, but it must be very localized

There a no rural lakes or waterways used for municipal water supplies here in this part of the country. The only lake I am aware of in which water is used for drinking is Lake Michigan. According to the DNR reg, the waterfronts along Lake Michigan is exempt, if it is waterfront in a city.

This has nothing to do with water quality protection. It has everything to do with control. If they were serious about water quality wouldn't they at least want to prevent the spring from flushing through dead leaves and sediments? Eventually, these spring cease to get through and the surface water becomes even more stagnant.

Marshlands acting as a filter does not apply to springs. Spring water is as clean as well water, in fact in many ares it is of the same resevior.

[EPA-CSD-RAH]

I have clientele wanting to do this very thing. They live in a Township that's been annexed to "provide city services and protection", and of course there is that pesky tax-base thing. They have two driven-wells on their land, at high points topographically, and up-hill from their septic systems (one for waste matter, one for grey-water.) These three items are grandfathered for 20 years, but condemned. They have analytical proof that their water-wells are purer than the city-water, which will be foisted on them, and their taxpburden, over 20 years. Has anyone here tried to prove the healthier aspects of '"real" water, vice "Chemicalized" water? Also, when they had their wells put in, the supervisor said to never drink water from a galvanized-pipe well, for fear of the lead leaching into the water over time. Any fact or opinion on this?? Thanks.




I'm willing to bet test results of municipal water from surface water sources were worse than deep wells.
I know communties try to force people to hook up to municpal water rather than keep using their private well. If this ever happens, have the municipal water tested and have your well tested and assuming your well results are better, threaten a lawsuit if you are forced to connect to municipal water.

[ICT Bill]

I have clientele wanting to do this very thing. They live in a Township that's been annexed to "provide city services and protection", and of course there is that pesky tax-base thing. They have two driven-wells on their land, at high points topographically, and up-hill from their septic systems (one for waste matter, one for grey-water.) These three items are grandfathered for 20 years, but condemned. They have analytical proof that their water-wells are purer than the city-water, which will be foisted on them, and their taxpburden, over 20 years. Has anyone here tried to prove the healthier aspects of '"real" water, vice "Chemicalized" water? Also, when they had their wells put in, the supervisor said to never drink water from a galvanized-pipe well, for fear of the lead leaching into the water over time. Any fact or opinion on this?? Thanks.

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the input
I believe galvanized pipe for drinking water was abandon a long time ago, well since plastic pipe was invented. There are some old homes here on the east coast that probably still have it if it has not rotted through or plugged up from build up of calcium (common in galvenized pipe)

I have no idea about the legal aspects of "proving" water quality. Sounds like the only ones that will come out on top are the lawyers fees