Had a conversation with a local Scrub today

[Soupy]

I pulled up to a customers house today and noticed a minivan with a small box trailer parked across the street. As I started to unload this guy drives up next to me with a white Rideing mower and ask me what I would charge to cut the lawn he was doing. I told him and he said that the lady was to cheap to pay that. I told him that I would not do it then. He said well I just do this part time. I just smiled at him, and told him that the house I was at was a friend and that I do it for free. I figured this would keep him away from it. Anyway I told him I had a old John Deere walk behind at home that I'm thinking about selling if he would be interested. I told him I only wanted about $500 for it. and he said it sounds like a good deal but he doesn't have the money. I smiled and said well if you were charging what you should then you might. Then I took a glance at his work and pointed out that he might want to check his blades or deck, becuase his cut was uneaven. He said yea I know, I think I have a bad spindle bearing. I just looked at him in a daze and he said, well she'll get over it and laughed.

I couldn't beleive what I was hearing. This is a true poster man for a Scrub. Oh by the way he was leaving about the same time I was and I noticed he didn't even blow off the driveway.

This was my first run in with a Scrub this year, and I just wanted to share it with you guys.

Soupy

[perfection lawn care]

Gotta love the scrubs, in my opinion its job securty for us.

I just took over ones account today and he considered himself a lco, but by the looks of the property he only had a crapsman 21", and a blower, don't even think he knew what a trimmer was.

Wish I had some before and after pics to post of it. Like you always here on this site, ya get what you pay for!!!

[FrankenScagMachines]

Yes I went to give an estimate on a lawn last night and the lady said the kid that was mowing it just did it that day and she didn't like it at all. He used her push mower and left streaks between passes occasionally (she thought it was the blade on her mower LOL I said or operator error LOL) and did not cut once a week like she requested (clumping of grass since it was only once every two weeks) and he didn't weedeat, didn't blow, etc apparently did a crappy job, and she was pretty displeased, because she had to go home and clean up after him! I told her I clean up after my self!!! She said before I got there (on phone) that she would be pretty picky, but when i was talking to her while looking at it, I thought, she's not really picky, just this scrub is only worth a peice of ****! So that's the first time I've really benefitted from a scrub... Kinda nice to have someone like that around to give me work... Anyhow, like mom says, that kind of person will give you alot of business if you treat 'em right and work to their expectations... that woman will be a good customer!
And, I told her my price ($15, small yard) and she said, well I'll give you $20. That's what I was going to give her but I was afraid she would think that was high since she'd had a scrub previously.. so playing it safe does work sometimes. I already didn't get a couple due to prices.. Better to just go a tad low right now until I get a better feel for it.
Eric :blob4:

[Mid Rivers]

$15???????? .:confused:

How can you afford to take your equipment off the trailer for that price? I charge $25 for a place that is so small all I use is my weed eater.:D

[dlandscaping]

No name calling.
Thank you

[Clint]

Wow Dlandscaping, that was a kidney shot. I dont find that very nice at all. Maybe you guys know something that I dont, but regaurdless, you shouldnt rip him like that.
Clint

[KDJ]

Originally posted by Mid Rivers
$15???????? .:confused:

How can you afford to take your equipment off the trailer for that price? I charge $25 for a place that is so small all I use is my weed eater.:D


Equipment off the trailer??? He's 15 years old cutting grass for $15.00 More young men should be like this. Sounds like a hard worker to me. ( I'll bet he will raise his prices when he can drive )

[the point man]

C'mon, guys, as I'm sure you know, not every market bears the
same price. I have a couple of fifteen dollar lawns. They're small,
but I spend at least a half-hour on each one. I sure wish that I
could charge more, but I can't. I work in the Jamestown, NY area
which used to be a major furniture manufacturing city, but alas,
almost the entire furniture industry has moved to the Carolinas.
This town has the lowest real estate prices in the northeast.
My house cost $43,000 in Jamestown and would have been priced at $130,000 or more anywhere near Boston. Nice if you're
buying, not so if you're selling. Anyway, you get my point.

[TGCummings]

Originally posted by dlandscaping
Edit.

Depends on his profit on that $15. If it's on an established route and it's a postage stamp property he could be getting $90/hour at that rate. Average that out to a 7 hour work day and tell me $630/day working solo is a bad take home... ;)

[dlandscaping]

It was posted before he only had 9 or less clients some family members and how he and others should have a set price to drop the gate so i had to respond. He can't drive and unless the property is next door he cant make $630 a day. He won't be solo. His profit wouldn't be that high since he just got all new two cycle stuff.

[FrankenScagMachines]

Please show me where all this new 2 cycle stuff [of mine] is?? I didn't get any new stuff, nor did I ever say I did or say I was going to. Most of my equipment is used, or stuff I built from scratch, or was given to me but I fixed to use. Thus, I have a low overhead. As others have stated, some areas have a low tolerance market. My area happens to be one of these unfortunately. :(
I would prefer you didn't judge people without knowing more about them from now on. I don't have a great 'feel' for rates around here and so far I have been turned down several times this year just because my prices (after consulting this forum board many times) were too high for this area. It's a town of about 38,000 people and there's dozens of people who mow grass (not professional LCO's, but anyone including scrubs and LCO's). About two dozen in the phone book plus a ton more that aren't in there but I know of anyway. As soon as I can legally drive myself, my prices will go up because I can turn down more people and get more, and afford better faster equipment. But as it is, i'm limited as you should know the feeling since you're only 15 as well. Obviously, you are probably in the same spot as I am. Only maybe you live in a neighborhood and have easier access to stuff, well I live out of town 2 miles on a highway and really can't go anywhere without someone taking me. If I lived in town and could drive my garden tractor and trailer with equipment to places on side streets, my prices would be higher and I could have more customers and turn down more. As it is, beggers can't be choosers, know what I mean?

[nu83]

I dont know why alot fo you guys get so upset with scrubs, I get this comment all the time when first bidding on a job "we had a lawn service before but we weren't happy". I can always tell they had the kid down the street when they say what was wrong, either they went on vacation and didn;t show up or some other common scrub story we always talk about. For me its somthing to compare my company to in a favorable way. After they have been with a scrub most people don't mind paying more.

[FrankenScagMachines]

I wasn't upset with them, I liked it that the customer had a bad experience with a scrub :p OK i'm not that cynical, but I mean I think it is helpful to us. I'm on your side. It's just the scrubs that are reliable and do a half decent job and keep the customer that bug me! They don't really deserve it, but they keep it anyway, that's the one I don't like.
Eric

[nu83]

They can't keep them for very long, just like the majority lco's they will be gone in 3 years.

[FrankenScagMachines]

Yea, but by the time one of them dies out, two more have started! It's aggravatin'!!! :angry: :blob2: :angry: :cry: :angry: :mad:

[nu83]

From my experience if you do a good job, show up when you say you are going to and basically run a good all around operation you will gain more customers than you lose. And you will be successfull as long as you know your cost and charge enough to cover them and pay yourself. It takes a few years to really get bidding down, after doing enough jobs that you underbid you figure it out. Thats my advice for ya. You are off to a good start and you will be fine.

Good Luck

[FrankenScagMachines]

thanks nu83.
Not more than a half dozen people have called this spring and I put out a couple hundred fliers, knocking on half of their doors and talking to them. Eventually i got too lazy and most weren't home so i just started leaving them in the door handle, all i've got is 1 new customer. Feeling pretty low. I think it seems like more people should be calling, maybe not. I'm going to put out a few hundred more and see what happens. Maybe I just picked a bad area to put 'em out in...
thanks again
Eric

[DaveK]

I think BushHogBoy is off to a great start in the business world. How many others actually started in business at 15. And based on his post alone, it's easy to see why Mid Rivers didn't realize his age. His communication skills (grammer, spelling, vocabulary, etc) is far better than many older members here. He certainly understands the importance of professionalism, and has my respect.

DaveK

[Premo Services]

Had a conversation with a local Scrub today


I have a conversation with one every week. On one of my accounts, the customer is too cheap to have me do the landscaping maint. I am happy just cutting her lawn. In the fall, she will have me do the leaves, because she told me that the guys stuff isn`t a quick as yours, and he takes too long on the leaves. I charge her more because of this. The sc--- has been trying to get the customer to let his buddies band of scrubs in there to do the lawn for 2 years, but she is very happy with me, and I don`t believe she will switch. :D Actually they are keeping me on top of my game, especially when it is hot and I am tired, which is about all the time.

[nu83]

I write personalized and signed letters to prospective clients telling them why they should choose my company, and I mail them to their homes. I spend alot of time making a really good mailer and I still get about 4% responce. Dont expect to get a huge responce from any advertising you do, percentage wise. Target diferant neighborhoods too, I hit one neighborhood with 500k homes on about an acre of mowable lawns with about 50 mailers and got a great % responce. Others I get nothing so dont get discouraged keep at it and you'll get calls. One more thing whenyou are bidding on someones property dont take into consideration what the last person told you. Dont lower your prices because someone thought you were too high, alot of times its not that you are to high its more that they cant afford lawn care in general.

[anythinglawns]

I referred one of my custmomers to a scrub today. I picked up his lawn last year and every time I came to mow he wanted it cut lower, lower ,lower. I was finally down to 1 inch (KY 31 Fescue) yesterday I have a message from him saying that in order to save money he wants me to cut the lawn so low that the grass would "burn" and would not grow back for several weeks. I told him (nicely) that I do not mow like that and gave him a long list of reasons. I told him there where plenty of scrubs around town who would be happy to "burn" his lawn for far less than I was charging to keep it looking nice. He agreed. Today I had a message telling me he had "made arangements" to have his lawn taken care of. There where no hard feelings in the deal, he just wanted a service I do not provide "lawn burning".
The moral is that sometimes scrubs are sometimes a handy way to get out of a bad job.

[perfection lawn care]

I agree with the above statement stick to your prices.

I learned this the rough way, the little old lady that gives every excuse why she can't afford Xamount and tries to haggle you down in price. I learned that if you don't want to my price than find someone else! I don't more work anyways. The hard part I find for me is that I do not advertise, so there for all my work is word of mouth due to the quality that I do, and this is someone who has been refered to me.

As far as your advertising campaign, you would not beleive the amount of lco's that adver., I was a city letter carrier before I transfered inside to maint., and seen the tons of flyers & letters that get sent out. Most of my customers would throw them away or tell me to take it back to post office and throw it out.

Word of mouth & personally talking to them works best in my opinion.

They get what they pay for!!!

[ADMowing]

We've been in business for five years and I'm wondering if we weren't at one time considered "scrubs."

This site is totally new for me, so I'm not familiar with the lingo. What is the definition of a scrub? We have an enclosed trailer with Jungle Jim racks with two ZTs and a regular mower, two edgers, backpack blower, and a handheld blower. Is a scrub someone new to the business... Is it the equipment they use???? When I read about scrubs, I'd like to know who I'm looking for.

I've made some posts about scrubs and thought of them as people with inadequate equipment for doing good lawn care, working without a license and insurance and so forth. Is this correct?

Once we were new to the business. Things may be a lot different here in Florida, but there are A LOT of lawns down here to mow and I personally don't think we have enough lawn services to take care of all of them. I wish there were more. But, I also don't think people should get out there and work without having the proper equipment, a license and insurance. It isn't fair to the rest of us who have invested!

We see newbees all the time down here and then we don't see ones that were out here last year. Because of the weather, lcos don't last down here unless they are crazy (like us) or diehards for punishment (like us). What do you think that does for customers down here? They are scared to take on new services and one of our selling points is that we have been in business for 5 years. We aren't going anywhere. We like our job and we're staying!

We don't worry too much about these newbees because our customer base is established for annual service (which we can do in Florida). We keep our rates a little lower and charge year 'round. As long as we do our job, we keep our customers. We've been let go for (what I think are) scrubs and then we've been called back by the same customers who have been dissatisfied (with the scrubs). We go back to them and raise our price and tell them that if they drop us again, we aren't coming back. I think that the relationship between customer and lco has to be mutual. There has to be respect on both sides. We care about our customers and their lives and they know it. We spend lots of time talking to them.

Our customer base averages 80 for 2 workers.

[SLS]

Jason,

It's funny how some customers think that we are in the "saving people money" industry and just mow their lawns as a way to get their business. :D

[Scag48]

ADmowing-Most of the time, scrubs don't have adequate lawn equipment. I'm not going to go into particulars, but they have a way of doing crappy work with crappy equipment and have a crappy appearence. They usually lowball, or underbid jobs and lower the standard for the rest of us. I don't consider myself a scrub, but I don't pay taxes. I'm only 15 so what do you expect. I would like to become a legit business as soon as possible and get insurance, but I just can't right now. I don't lowball, so as long as you don't lowball, I guess you're not too scrubby. I see new guys popping up everywhere. My town has a population of 5,000 annual residents, and most of them are damn cheap. But we are a tourist town and the seattelites come over, build $500,000 houses on the lake and just sit on it all summer. If I got some of those jobs, I'd really be in business. I'm still working on getting more jobs. So far the new business count is up to 4 new jobs this year so far, I'm going for a record season! I can feel it already.... Later guys. Happy mowing!

[Barkleymut]

A scrub is ANYONE who doesn't pay taxes.
A scrub is ANYONE who doesn't have insurance.
If you wonder whether or not your a scrub, you most likely are.

Hell, If I didn't have to pay taxes I would be rolling in piles of cash. Good luck when the IRS gets ya. And I hope they get ya soon.:angry:

[Premo Services]

Originally posted by Barkleymut
A scrub is ANYONE who doesn't pay taxes.
A scrub is ANYONE who doesn't have insurance.
If you wonder whether or not your a scrub, you most likely are.

Hell, If I didn't have to pay taxes I would be rolling in piles of cash. Good luck when the IRS gets ya. And I hope they get ya soon.:angry:

I couldn't have said it better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D :D

[ADMowing]

Thanks for your replies! Its interesting to hear what a scrub is. Guess we've never been scrubs because we pay taxes and we don't lowball. In fact, we give would-be customers a quote sheet with our price (non-negotiable) and tell them to call around. We tell them to make sure that the other quotes they get are from reliable lawn services. That alone usually gets us the job 'cause they know we wouldn't say it if we didn't feel we were one of the "Professionals."

Thanks for your input and reassurance.

Happy Mowing to you all too! It's getting hot down here in Florida!

[Turf Technologies]

One thing that was left out. A scrub is somone who doesnt finish the job correctly.(Road way not blown off,sidewalks not blown off, somthing not Edge,*in my mind* somone who doesnt own a edger,misses trimming all the time and it happens!) thats the basics when you look at there work.

[Toroguy]

Originally posted by Barkleymut
A scrub is ANYONE who doesn't pay taxes.
A scrub is ANYONE who doesn't have insurance.

Barkleymut is unfortunately technically wrong on this one...

If you don't pay taxes your a criminal.

If you don't have insurance your a foolish risk taker.

Both scenarios will catch up with the offender.



These rants about scrubs never have a remedy, if your operation is so affected by this flea market: your either:

1.~16 years old
2. Starting your business in the last year or two
3. Completely incompetent at business.
4. Completely incompetent at Lawn Maintenance

Patience and focus. If you are effective you will succede.

[Russo]

Originally posted by DaveK
I think BushHogBoy is off to a great start in the business world. How many others actually started in business at 15. And based on his post alone, it's easy to see why Mid Rivers didn't realize his age. His communication skills (grammer, spelling, vocabulary, etc) is far better than many older members here. He certainly understands the importance of professionalism, and has my respect.


Ditto. You're also some sort of fabrication prodigy. It makes me sick!

[the point man]

TOROguy nailed it. His reply to this post should be immortalized
and if there ever is a final word to this scrub debate, and a final
word is long overdue, then his reply should be it.