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ElephantNest
09-12-2009, 08:03 AM
Bought a brand new Next Lazer Z, and I am having trouble with it leaving the shoots of Bahia sticking up. Unless I have very fresh blades, it refuses to cut it. I normally sharpen blades every 8 hours or so, but find myself having to sharpend them twice as often with the new machine.

I sent an email to eXmark over two weeks ago, with NO REPSONSE. WTH???

Spend $10,600 on a mower, and they can't even return an email? No phone call? I told my dealer the first couple of days of owning it, and he got a rep from eXmark to come down, took my machine for the day, put about 10 minutes on the hour meter, and then called me and said "Ok, it's ready". I get to my dealer's, and guess what they did to it?? They changed the blades. Wow, if only I could have thought of that.

Sure it will cut fine with fresh blades, but my other 2 eXmarks cut better even with older blades......the rep said the deck is the same as my old Ultra-Cut....well it sure doesn't cut like it. My Turf Tracer and my 60"/31HP out cut this machine 2 to 1. I have to slow to a crawl to cut Bahia after a few hours on the blades......makes it almost quicker to use the 36".

I have used eXmark for 20 years, and I expected MUCH MORE in the way of customer relations. I emailed them one simple question, WHAT IS YOUR RETURN POLICY. NO RESPONSE WELL OVER TWO WEEKS.

UNACCEPTABLE.

Anyone else having any troubles with their new "Next Lazer Z"?

dishboy
09-12-2009, 08:50 AM
The good news is they have a special on KY jelly

tamadrummer
09-12-2009, 09:13 AM
This is what worries me about the Toro G-3 because I demoed a Grandstand and it did the same thing but it sounds like mine was worse. Fresh blades and stringers everywhere as well as the center blade barely even cutting.

Bahia was the turf as well for me. It just does not seem as if the deck has enough volume of space for the amount of grass that is filling them. My John Deere 727a out-cut the Grandstand hands down.

I will be demoing a G3 so I can see if I should buy one but I may be stuck with buying a Cub Tank if the demo proves bad with the Toro.

One of our huge Golf courses just switched from Toro and John Deere Golf machines to Hustler.

May be a reason....... I don't know.

Richard Martin
09-12-2009, 09:19 AM
The good news is they have a special on KY jelly

Now that truely is funny. I don't lol very often but I did on that! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Anyway... You're not the first to complain about the Exmark decks and Bahia. There's 5 or 6 complaints in this thread.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=286743

I'm not trying to put in a plug for Dixie but... My Dixie really pretty easily cuts Bahia. It gets all of it on the first pass. If the Bahia gets really thick though it will ocassionally have a little trouble discharging the stuff. I've cut side by side with a 72" Hustler and the results were pretty even.

MOHUSTLER
09-12-2009, 09:21 AM
Keep after the company, if exmark is any sorta company at all they will respond to you. If not then it sounds like everyone elses complaints on the exmark line are true. Verry poor customer support. There are many other brands of mowers out there that are just as good and even better then the exmark machines. And they need to wake up and realize that!

nmanley
09-12-2009, 09:23 AM
Seems like they changed something in the deck design since you have the other decks to compare with. Only thing you can do and hope a different blade type will give the lift needed to help THAT deck cut up to the standards of your older decks which MAYBE don't need as much lift to cut Bahia good.

mowerbrad
09-12-2009, 10:28 AM
The Ultra Cut deck on your Next Lazer should be the series 6 ultra cut deck. This deck was designed to replace the triton decks. I'm pretty sure that there is some difference between this series 6 deck and your older ultra cut decks, but I'm not entirely sure how different.

White Gardens
09-12-2009, 10:35 AM
I will be demoing a G3 so I can see if I should buy one but I may be stuck with buying a Cub Tank if the demo proves bad with the Toro.




Be careful of the tank. I've never cared for the quality of MTD products. A couple of old cub-dealers have stated that once MTD took over, they wouldn't carry cub-products any more.

Dixie Chopper Thumbs Up. With all the company acquisitions, Dixie seems to be standing strong on building American made quality that isn't touched by corporate hands.

johnslandscaping
09-12-2009, 10:46 AM
I owned exmark for over 10 years. When I demoed the next I thought it lacked in every way compared to last years models. For 10K they need to step it up because now we are going to hustler on new machines but will continue to by used exmark machines. I would try to return it even if you lose a little now. I am Very disapointed in exmark/Toro

GravelyGuy
09-12-2009, 11:37 AM
I owned exmark for over 10 years. When I demoed the next I thought it lacked in every way compared to last years models. For 10K they need to step it up because now we are going to hustler on new machines but will continue to by used exmark machines. I would try to return it even if you lose a little now. I am Very disapointed in exmark/Toro

Strange, please explain.

When you are running a "professional" service it should be no big deal to sharpen blades every day or two. When they are sharp I don't think the cut can be beat. Every four hours seems like overkill, but I'm glad I have no experience with bohia.

My major complaint in over 200 hours is that the ultracut is pathetic in wet grass. It can handle grass up to your knees if it's dry, but it can't even handle 2" of growth if it's wet, just call it an ultraCLUMP if wet.

The ultimate combo would be a Scag TT and an Exmark NLZ. The best of both worlds. There would be no room for complaint with that setup.

jtkplc
09-12-2009, 12:09 PM
The Ultra Cut deck on your Next Lazer should be the series 6 ultra cut deck. This deck was designed to replace the triton decks. I'm pretty sure that there is some difference between this series 6 deck and your older ultra cut decks, but I'm not entirely sure how different.

To my knowledge, the Ultracut 6 is the combo of the old Ultracut and the spindle from the Triton deck. It also has plastic instead of steel covers over the pulleys.

SEMI-RETIRED
09-12-2009, 02:32 PM
I do a lot of high grass jobs and have allways had trouble leaving
strips and seed tops, i ordered 2 sets of high lift blades from
j thomas and getting much better results but once i get into lots
with pine cones etc, and the blades lose their edge same problem..

I am thinking of trying the mamba hi-lift gators to see if they are
any better..

On my large sub-divisions where i do lots of vac lots i try to do all
the ones with just grass first and leave the ones with sticks etc
for last, i just don't have the time to constantly be sharpening blades.

Just some thoughts..

Bob..

WREBELMACHINE
09-12-2009, 03:11 PM
I would not say that about dixie chopper! The excalibur is a clumper! and does not cut all that great! Plus they do not seem to have any inventory! I wonder why that is?

johnnybravo8802
09-13-2009, 09:51 AM
That surprises me about Exmark support. They used to be a very supportive company, but that was 10 years ago-They may have grown so much that they are falling off in support. That's the way Ferris treated me in 01'.

I wasn't impressed at all with the new Exmark. I thought they missed the boat entirely and came up with nothing more than a more complicated machine-they didn't actually make a better machine!!!!:confused: I had a brand new set of blades on my Exmark demo and it was missing the bahia, even amongst other grasses. I only sharpened the blades on my Scag TT and mowed a 2 acre yard of mine that is solid bahia(Biweekly)and I had only 2-3 scraglers-That's pretty awesome. Also, I rarely have to clean from under the deck because of the great discharge of the velocity deck.

I"d be more persistant. I"ll bug the sh#@ of of peple until I get results, even if I have to call several times in one day. I make them give me results because I just spent a lot of money on their product. YOu should do the same.

White Gardens
09-13-2009, 12:13 PM
I would not say that about dixie chopper! The excalibur is a clumper! and does not cut all that great! Plus they do not seem to have any inventory! I wonder why that is?

Dealers might not have an inventory, but Green Castle IN is the location for all the mowers that are turned out. They have a warehouse stuffed to the gills with mowers. At least they did when I toured the facility. At the time they had major over-stock after the previous years there not being enough mowers for dealers, so they bought the warehouse and stuffed it. In the current state of the economy, I wouldn't be surprised if they cut back production.

Try the X blade set-up on the X-caliber, that takes care of the cut problems, that and adjust your cutting height.

WREBELMACHINE
09-13-2009, 12:56 PM
Tried the x blades it helped some but still clumps! My old city slickers and twin engine jobs just mow! I tried to get a classic 72" to replace one of my excalubur mowers and two months latter dixie did not have any built! I also have a good friend who bought two new SE's 60" models and a wheel motor went out of it he is still waiting on Dixie to get him one and that mower has been down for over a month! Really makes no diffrence to me on Dixie anymore because we have lost our good local support and we are switching brands because of it!

gruberlawncare
09-14-2009, 11:19 PM
I AHVE NEW EXMARKS I HAVE 2 60IN KAWASAKI I HAD SAME PROBLEM IN kentucky blue, call your store and get them agian to get the rep from exmark i had actually 36 hours on both with 27hp kohlers and i traded them back in for the30hp kawasaki made i huge difference also sharpen every day that also makes a difference.

tacoma200
09-14-2009, 11:52 PM
I'm sure if you had luck with the previous Ultra Cut decks you will be able to get this one to preform just as well because they are practically the same. Check pitch, blade type, level of the deck, the turbo baffle, and make sure they are set up the same as your old decks. I think your jumping the gun on needing a new mower until you've worked with it a while. The fact that you say it cuts well with new blades means basically it is very close to being right. Maybe more lift with blades or other adjustment. Are the new turbo baffles adjustable, does anyone know?

topsites
09-15-2009, 03:06 AM
That's a good part of the source of my anger of late.

First the prices have gone through the roof, just for example my mower went from 3000 to 3700 in 5 years.
Now I don't know how old you guys are, but in my book 5 years is no long time at all, while 700 bucks is a LOT of money!
But neither the quality nor the service has, and if anything it's gotten worse...

The good news is they have a special on KY jelly

Ain't that the truth.

ElephantNest
09-15-2009, 08:43 AM
I agree. Just 4 years ago, I got my 60"/31HP for $10K, now all $10K buys is a 52"/27HP.

As for jumping the gun, my dealer said everything was adjusted before I picked it up. It cuts grass BEAUTIFULLY. Pitch is perfect, leveled, etc. I won't "try" new blades, because I need the wavy mulchers in winter to mulch with way less blow-out than gators, hi lifts, etc. Sure, it would likely work now, but I need a mower for all seasons, especially for the price I paid.

I've been exclusively an eXmark buyer for all my life, and used them long before I ever bought one of my own. In other words, I know my eXmarks, and what blades work well in different situations. If the deck is the same, the same blades should work the same.

What really pisses me off is I have YET to receive a return email, a phone call, a letter, NOTHING! On top of the rep wasting my time by taking my machine for a day, putting about 10 minutes on the hour meter, changing the blades, and calling me saying to come get it, that it cuts fine. If they're willing to give me a free set or two of blades every month or so, it should be just fine. 8(

ALC-GregH
09-15-2009, 08:49 AM
I agree. Just 4 years ago, I got my 60"/31HP for $10K, now all $10K buys is a 52"/27HP.

As for jumping the gun, my dealer said everything was adjusted before I picked it up. It cuts grass BEAUTIFULLY. Pitch is perfect, leveled, etc. I won't "try" new blades, because I need the wavy mulchers in winter to mulch with way less blow-out than gators, hi lifts, etc. Sure, it would likely work now, but I need a mower for all seasons, especially for the price I paid.

I've been exclusively an eXmark buyer for all my life, and used them long before I ever bought one of my own. In other words, I know my eXmarks, and what blades work well in different situations. If the deck is the same, the same blades should work the same.

What really pisses me off is I have YET to receive a return email, a phone call, a letter, NOTHING! On top of the rep wasting my time by taking my machine for a day, putting about 10 minutes on the hour meter, changing the blades, and calling me saying to come get it, that it cuts fine. If they're willing to give me a free set or two of blades every month or so, it should be just fine. 8(

Free blades? Why should they give you free blades each month? Can't you sharpen the ones you have?

Richard Martin
09-15-2009, 11:26 AM
Free blades? Why should they give you free blades each month? Can't you sharpen the ones you have?

He's still ticked off and the free blades will help him feel better.

RonAyersMotorsports
09-15-2009, 01:08 PM
Sounds like its time to look at a Hustler! Those 27hp kohler engines are definately not the way to go on these larger decks anymore. Everyone is trying to cut taller grass faster. Check out the 31hp Kawasaki with 55lbs. of torque vs the 27hp with only 42lbs. And you can still get these machines cheaper than the Exmark. Not nocking Exmark just a suggestion.

ElephantNest
09-15-2009, 04:59 PM
No Richard, I'm not ticked off, nor am I wanting something for nothing. Like I stated, I'm disappointed.

To answer the question: Because if I am going to have to sharpen blades twice as much as normal, then they are going to wear out faster, correct?

I've spent over $27K on eXmarks in the last 7 years, all I want is a little respect, and some help with current issues. Too much to ask?

rotgg
09-15-2009, 06:12 PM
i too was a lifetime exmark customer and will be looking else were the "next Z" sucks and cost 30% more anyone that pays 10g's for a 52" 27hp is crazy exmark has lost it they stuck me with two triton decks that have never preformed correctly even sent people from the factory down to watch us mow all i got was a "o well they dont cut worth a ****" never offered me any solution never offered to give my money back or to trade the mowers in on something else i told them at the time i would get the last laugh and now its comming true HA HA HA EXMARK

908LawnPro
09-15-2009, 06:33 PM
Having the same issue with my new toro G3, brought it back to the dealer, they are replacing the spindles and pulleys. It didn't miss a blade when I got it but it went down hill ever since. I grease everything about 15-20 hrs and new blades every day sometimes 2x a day.

I'm going to ask about this trading in thing for the higher powered unit 29kaw or 31 :weightlifter:

I cut today with my buddy's scag tiger cub and it cut better, wtf!

nuconz
09-15-2009, 06:36 PM
Bought a brand new Next Lazer Z, and I am having trouble with it leaving the shoots of Bahia sticking up. Unless I have very fresh blades, it refuses to cut it. I normally sharpen blades every 8 hours or so, but find myself having to sharpend them twice as often with the new machine.

Anyone else having any troubles with their new "Next Lazer Z"?

you realize of course that bahia is the nastiest stuff in the world to cut?

what height do you have the deck set?

my super z does a much better job of it at 2". problem is the ground is so bumpy that 2" is too low in many parts. and the "angel fine hair" bahia is nearly impossible for anything to cut!

908LawnPro
09-15-2009, 06:38 PM
I AHVE NEW EXMARKS I HAVE 2 60IN KAWASAKI I HAD SAME PROBLEM IN kentucky blue, call your store and get them agian to get the rep from exmark i had actually 36 hours on both with 27hp kohlers and i traded them back in for the30hp kawasaki made i huge difference also sharpen every day that also makes a difference.

when you say traded them in, how much of a hit did you take on them? or did they work something out for you?

tacoma200
09-15-2009, 06:43 PM
An Ultracut and "wavy mulchers" are not a good match most places. Mulchers have very little lift (even the so called high lift ones). Notched high lifts are the only blade I had good luck with the Ultracut. I would expect stragglers with anything less. But then again I'm not cutting bahia....

Any time I put mulchers on my Ultracuts and start missing grass imediately unless I was mowing very low.

puppypaws
09-15-2009, 08:26 PM
I sent an email to eXmark over two weeks ago, with NO REPSONSE. WTH???



Hang on, maybe you will get a response, I was told Exmark sent everyone home for one month because of business being off so bad. :confused:

Pietro
09-15-2009, 08:33 PM
This is what worries me about the Toro G-3 because I demoed a Grandstand and it did the same thing but it sounds like mine was worse. Fresh blades and stringers everywhere as well as the center blade barely even cutting.



Youre not the first to say that, but I advise you to give toro another shot. I have 2 60 inch diesels with the turbo force and they cut perfectly. I think that the grandstand has an issue getting the power from the engine to the deck or something, because I have 0 cutting issues with mine. Wet or dry mowing.

razor1
09-15-2009, 09:04 PM
Give this a shot, Exmark tech line 1-800-479-8379

John deer Z
09-15-2009, 09:08 PM
Keep after the company, if exmark is any sorta company at all they will respond to you. If not then it sounds like everyone elses complaints on the exmark line are true. Verry poor customer support. There are many other brands of mowers out there that are just as good and even better then the exmark machines. And they need to wake up and realize that!


I have 2 ex-mark dealers in town and they both have a pitiful customer relations. They will talk down to you or act like you are stupid to ask that question. I have had good luck with my 717A JD, but I was looking to try a ex-mark but have just about changed my mind and will probably go back with the 900 series when they come out.

tacoma200
09-15-2009, 09:22 PM
Hang on, maybe you will get a response, I was told Exmark sent everyone home for one month because of business being off so bad. :confused:

Exmark just needs to come out with a value line to compete with the dog brands. DogMark or something. Maybe a pull start and rebel flag, beer cooler, ash tray, rear spoiler,etc.


Just joking, couldn't resist.:) I hope everyone has a sense of humor....

nmanley
09-15-2009, 09:36 PM
Hang on, maybe you will get a response, I was told Exmark sent everyone home for one month because of business being off so bad. :confused:

I'm pretty sure if I raise the price of a product when the country is damn near in a recession, (and it is as we baby boomers are conditioned) I'd be having to send employees home for MONTHS at a time too. :nono:

I hate it for the employees but I would just assume this kind of managed companies go OUT OF BUSINESS.

puppypaws
09-15-2009, 10:01 PM
I'm pretty sure if I raise the price of a product when the country is damn near in a recession, (and it is as we baby boomers are conditioned) I'd be having to send employees home for MONTHS at a time too. :nono:

I hate it for the employees but I would just assume this kind of managed companies go OUT OF BUSINESS.

No, not near a recession but in one that could easily go into a depression. What does everyone think may happen when unemployment benefits run out and there are still no jobs to be found, this will be happening very shortly. Don't believe government for one second when they say things are improving, they have yet to tell the truth about anything.

There are 545 men and women on capitol hill that decides everything taking place in this country, you would think out of 300,000,000 we could fine enough people to vote them out and start over. Politicians are like cancer cells, if you leave one in place they will reproduce the same infection.

Thunderhead
09-15-2009, 11:09 PM
I sent an email to eXmark over two weeks ago, with NO REPSONSE. WTH???

I have used eXmark for 20 years, and I expected MUCH MORE in the way of customer relations. I emailed them one simple question, WHAT IS YOUR RETURN POLICY. NO RESPONSE WELL OVER TWO WEEKS.

UNACCEPTABLE.

I'm sorry to say this to you you, but it is nice to know that I'm not the only one who hasn't gotten a reply back. My e-mail was sent about 2 months ago! This is 1 Major reason I went with Hustler... I even went ahead and took my name off eXmark's mailing list. They won't get my money again. I couldn't even get a demo!!

To h*ll with em'!:drinkup:

Thunderhead:)

tacoma200
09-15-2009, 11:48 PM
I'm sorry to say this to you you, but it is nice to know that I'm not the only one who hasn't gotten a reply back. My e-mail was sent about 2 months ago! This is 1 Major reason I went with Hustler... I even went ahead and took my name off eXmark's mailing list. They won't get my money again. I couldn't even get a demo!!

To h*ll with em'!:drinkup:

Thunderhead:)

Heck, I just call them. They pick up and I ask questions. They have a number to reps they just don't post it anymore.

zman2307
09-15-2009, 11:49 PM
Exmark just needs to come out with a value line to compete with the dog brands. DogMark or something. Maybe a pull start and rebel flag, beer cooler, ash tray, rear spoiler,etc.


Just joking, couldn't resist.:) I hope everyone has a sense of humor....

Is that Alabama Man?

tacoma200
09-16-2009, 12:41 AM
Is that Alabama Man?

I don't know. I think it is in the "Trailer Trash Barbie collection".

I thought the picture was funny but I figured it would offend some. Of course I meant no offense.

P.S. you can get the "Divorced Barbie".....it comes with all Ken's stuff, the house, jeep, etc...

S man
09-16-2009, 01:38 AM
Interesting. I have a toro z master with the turbo force deck that I got used with the 23 kawasaki on it. The deck is similar to the ultracut and is what is on the new g3 toro. And it doesn't cut that great. When wet the grass stays up too long and then drops and makes a mess or cuts the whole machine off. Or when it's dry it will miss blades of grass if the blades are not freshly sharpened. These blades were still sharp and it was missing blades of grass. What gives? And don't get me started with the mulch kit. My exmark with the triton deck was better and the toro takes just as much time with double cutting and all. The only bad part is it uses a lot more fuel because of the 23 kawasaki. The exmark had a 19 kaw. I'm looking into scag now.

dgfitz
09-16-2009, 01:39 AM
Is that Alabama Man?

Naw, thats Ken Tacoma before he civilized Kentucky.:laugh:

Richard Martin
09-16-2009, 04:16 AM
No, not near a recession but in one that could easily go into a depression. What does everyone think may happen when unemployment benefits run out and there are still no jobs to be found, this will be happening very shortly. Don't believe government for one second when they say things are improving, they have yet to tell the truth about anything.

Nah, you don't understand. Helicopter Ben told us yesterday that we're out of the recession. Everything is good now! Manufacturing is up in New York so that must mean everything is better.

puppypaws
09-16-2009, 08:39 AM
Nah, you don't understand. Helicopter Ben told us yesterday that we're out of the recession. Everything is good now! Manufacturing is up in New York so that must mean everything is better.

Yep, you've always got to look at the source, the ones that have money don't see the recession for what it is. As unemployment dries up it's going to get real ugly for a large number of people. I'm sure the general public will notice crime increasing more with time, which it already has, there are robberies and killings taking place around the clock now. These type crimes took place in larger percentages at night until the last couple of years. People have now become much more desperate; along with brazen, this is causing more robberies in public establishments anytime during the day, they no longer care, it has become a matter of survival.

TheC-Master
09-16-2009, 09:58 AM
I got help from a rep who found my thread on here, they solved the problem quickly, but no member here would help, I guess they were unfamiliar with the problem. The irony.

nuconz
09-16-2009, 10:55 AM
I got help from a rep who found my thread on here, they solved the problem quickly, but no member here would help, I guess they were unfamiliar with the problem. The irony.

???

did you post in this thread?

Richard Martin
09-16-2009, 03:52 PM
I got help from a rep who found my thread on here, they solved the problem quickly, but no member here would help, I guess they were unfamiliar with the problem. The irony.

It wasn't a matter of no one would help. It was probably that no one could help. There's a big difference between those two words. Would and Could. You don't see a whole lot of Exmark 21s around. I saw your original post but I have never even seen an Exmark 21, let alone worked on one. I'm sorry.

MOHUSTLER
09-16-2009, 04:50 PM
We see some of the exmark 21's in our shop. They buy them from the guy down the street and bring them in here wanthing them fixed when he says it will be 3 weeks to get parts, and 3 more till he looks at it. I show them the commercial snapper 21's and they get it instead.

razor1
09-16-2009, 10:02 PM
No, not near a recession but in one that could easily go into a depression. What does everyone think may happen when unemployment benefits run out and there are still no jobs to be found, this will be happening very shortly. Don't believe government for one second when they say things are improving, they have yet to tell the truth about anything.

There are 545 men and women on capitol hill that decides everything taking place in this country, you would think out of 300,000,000 we could fine enough people to vote them out and start over. Politicians are like cancer cells, if you leave one in place they will reproduce the same infection.


puppypaws we need you in the "Political" section!

TheC-Master
09-17-2009, 07:56 AM
It wasn't a matter of no one would help. It was probably that no one could help. There's a big difference between those two words. Would and Could. You don't see a whole lot of Exmark 21s around. I saw your original post but I have never even seen an Exmark 21, let alone worked on one. I'm sorry.

That's what I meant, I wasn't trying to sound bitter, I just found it funny. My thread is on my most recent. A rep gave me a number which allowed me to do a claim and get my bell fixed. :)

nmanley
09-17-2009, 08:54 AM
There are 545 men and women on capitol hill that decides everything taking place in this country, you would think out of 300,000,000 we could fine enough people to vote them out and start over. Politicians are like cancer cells, if you leave one in place they will reproduce the same infection.

The working man can only hope that would happen but I won't hold my breath. :cry:
There was some emails going around about a Sheriffs movement starting in Texas and catching on in other states as the Sheriffs office is the only office in the country that can keep Federal Government out of their counties.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

Found the link: http://www.pagosadailypost.com/news/13085/Sheriff_Mack_Speaks,_Part_One/

Another: http://www.freedomisnotdead.org/csheriff.htm

puppypaws
09-17-2009, 10:51 AM
The working man can only hope that would happen but I won't hold my breath. :cry:
There was some emails going around about a Sheriffs movement starting in Texas and catching on in other states as the Sheriffs office is the only office in the country that can keep Federal Government out of their counties.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

Found the link: http://www.pagosadailypost.com/news/13085/Sheriff_Mack_Speaks,_Part_One/

Another: http://www.freedomisnotdead.org/csheriff.htm

Very interesting articles! :confused:

puppypaws
09-17-2009, 11:42 AM
I talked with Exmark this morning and was told their production personnel was sent home for the entire month of August, but their office was still at full work force.

I told them there had been problems with customers or potential customers getting any response from Exmark on their products via email or telephone. The person told me they certainly appreciated me making them aware of this problem, and they promised my information would be channeled to the proper people; insuring this would be taken care of correctly.

We talked about the economy and how lucky they were to have a job. It was explained to me the Exmark Co. was having a very difficult time and they were all hoping for a turn around before permanent layoffs became more prevalent.

MOHUSTLER
09-17-2009, 01:35 PM
They talked about exmark at one of our dealer meetings, They claim to be down around 50% from normal sales. Which is alot seeing as most have only taken a 15% to stayed around the same and soem companies are up.

puppypaws
09-17-2009, 08:36 PM
They talked about exmark at one of our dealer meetings, They claim to be down around 50% from normal sales. Which is alot seeing as most have only taken a 15% to stayed around the same and soem companies are up.

Hustler is down as well, and I am pretty sure Bobcat and Bad Boy are the only ones showing a sales increase. Everyone needs to remember, it is easier for a smaller company to show what appears to be a respectable increase while a larger company may only show a small decrease in a bad economy. Most of the big names are showing a sizable decrease in sales for 2009.

mjealey
09-17-2009, 08:52 PM
I don't care what people say, Exmark's sales are way down. I see a lot of people switching from exmark to other brands that are a little cheaper, but they are very happy with them. However, if you talk to the exmark dealers they say they are selling great and their sales are up with these new Next Lazer Z's compared to last. But yet I walk in to the dealership 2 weeks later for some parts and they have the exact same mowers on the showroom floors and I know a couple of them don't have them sitting in the crates in the back. What you see on the showroom floor is what they have and they aren't being turned over. I found it very funny how dealers say they are setting record sales in a down and stuggling economy with these new machines.

MOHUSTLER
09-18-2009, 10:33 AM
It is a hard economy, But people are still buying. We have noticed people arent buying high ticket mowers and are staying smaller. We are up over last year but we got a few new modles from hustler that opened up more markets for us that we didnet have prior to this year.

puppypaws
09-18-2009, 11:20 AM
It is a hard economy, But people are still buying. We have noticed people arent buying high ticket mowers and are staying smaller. We are up over last year but we got a few new modles from hustler that opened up more markets for us that we didnet have prior to this year.

I talked with a very knowledgeable product representative at Bobcat this morning. He said their sales were up for 2009 and he was very thankful, but if their sales stayed the same or were only down slightly they would be happy, because the industry was down in the 30% range across the board.

MOHUSTLER
09-18-2009, 05:21 PM
30% this year isnt terriable. Most of our reps planed on a 30% drop, some were more some were less. This is one of the years that if you survive this year you will be smooth sailing in the years to come.

puppypaws
09-18-2009, 06:50 PM
30% this year isnt terriable. Most of our reps planed on a 30% drop, some were more some were less. This is one of the years that if you survive this year you will be smooth sailing in the years to come.

That may be with Bobcat and Bad Boy pulling the average up, I know some brand name mower sales are down more than 30%.

You produce a good product at a fair price and sales will come, as has been proven with Bobcat and Bad Boy. You produce a good product; but price it above what the market will bear in bad economic times, and you will see exactly what has taken place.

Mower companies that have not been a concern for the big names before are now taking a larger percentage of their business, for every mower Bobcat or Bad Boy sells is one less Scag, Exmark or Hustler had a chance to sell.

silverado212
09-18-2009, 10:46 PM
I don't own an Exmark, but i am disapointed in them. Was in the local dealer today to get a flat on my velke fixed. I got pushed in front of a Brickman machine haha kinda funny to me. But anyway was asking about price on some units on the floor: 48" hydro Turf tracer $6000 OUCH 48" hydro fixed deck both withe ECS $4600 ok to swallow that one, but $6000 for a 48 w/b when the wright/scag dealer up the road has a 52 stander fixed deck for under $7000. Exmark is proud of there stuff.

TMlawncare
09-18-2009, 11:48 PM
I owned exmark for over 10 years. When I demoed the next I thought it lacked in every way compared to last years models. For 10K they need to step it up because now we are going to hustler on new machines but will continue to by used exmark machines. I would try to return it even if you lose a little now. I am Very disapointed in exmark/Toro


Ok, you thought the new design lacked in everyway. Your very disapointed in Exmark. Could you please be a little more vague. On our demo of the machine, it is better in everyway. Cut quality is slightly better with the newly designed discharge area. Handling is much, much better then any Z on the market. The machine feels like it carries no weight on the front casters. Turns are so effortless on flats, hillsides up or down. Hydros are very responsive and accurate. Wet and weedy conditions the performance is decent but not as good a Scag or Deere. All other conditions it makes the tradeoff worthwhile.
Btw, Hustler is a good brand but they are not without issues. That XR7 deck suffers from many of the same issues as Exmark and other fully baffled machines. The difference is when you into the better lawn the Hustler does not cut a cleanly as the Exmark. Do a search, it not just me that feels this way its pretty much fact.

TMlawncare
09-18-2009, 11:57 PM
We see some of the exmark 21's in our shop. They buy them from the guy down the street and bring them in here wanthing them fixed when he says it will be 3 weeks to get parts, and 3 more till he looks at it. I show them the commercial snapper 21's and they get it instead.

That odd, I always though Exmark had and overnight parts program. This guaranteed the commercial customer far less downtime. If a customer has a metro 21" he must have been a commercial cutter. I can't imagine a dealer making someone wait that long to look at it. If thats truly the case they may not be a Exmark dealer for long.

TMlawncare
09-19-2009, 12:11 AM
I would not say that about dixie chopper! The excalibur is a clumper! and does not cut all that great! Plus they do not seem to have any inventory! I wonder why that is?
If the Excalibur is a clumper what do you call the old silver decks? Answer the stripper. Because on my 72" diesel it has left a constant strip between the middle and discharge blade. Dixie chopper says its a vortex causing the problems on that series of decks. They have tried 3" blades, double blades, new front baffle, x-blades, cutting parts of the baffling out. After all that is still leaves the most define little one inch strip of grass of any mower I have seen. I got that beauty new in 2002 for only 14k. Don't think for a minute that Exmark is the only company out there with crappy customer support. They are all great until you have an issue.

CBB
09-20-2009, 11:15 AM
Interesting. I have a toro z master with the turbo force deck that I got used with the 23 kawasaki on it. The deck is similar to the ultracut and is what is on the new g3 toro. And it doesn't cut that great. When wet the grass stays up too long and then drops and makes a mess or cuts the whole machine off. Or when it's dry it will miss blades of grass if the blades are not freshly sharpened. These blades were still sharp and it was missing blades of grass. What gives? And don't get me started with the mulch kit. My exmark with the triton deck was better and the toro takes just as much time with double cutting and all. The only bad part is it uses a lot more fuel because of the 23 kawasaki. The exmark had a 19 kaw. I'm looking into scag now.

I wish you would have told me you were selling your Exmark. I would have bought it in a heartbeat for myself.

retrodog
09-20-2009, 01:20 PM
Hey, I have a friend here that bought a 27hp 60 lazer Z, and he said he hated it. I went out and mowed on it, even with sharp blades it leaves alot of stragglers (way more than I have seen in a while). It says Triton on the deck. The deck is pitched properly, and I even brought a few different sets of blades to try out on it too. He wants me to sell it for him, but I feel bad because it only has 134 hours. Would it be worth it to buy an Ultracut deck for it, or just put for sale and see what happens. Exmark won't do anything for him, they said it does what it is supposed to do. He would take like $7000 for it, but then whoever buys it will be stuck with something that doesn't cut worth a crap. I feel that is should be considered a recall if everyone else is having the issues with the triton, but now its the ultracut too? I have always heard that exmark had the best cut in the market, I am really disappointed after this.

juspayme
09-21-2009, 01:38 AM
i bought my first exmark in 2001, put almost 3000 hours sold it this year. never had a cutting issue.

then i bought the last of the 2008 28 hp kaw. 60 inch . they too work fine.

see toro who bought exmark, decided that they could build a better mower. we all know how that triton turned out. junk/

and now they redesigned them again. they look cool. but the 2000 dollar price tag doesnt look cool.

its about making money, not cool loooking mowers. note to toro: dont change the exmark. save us money, fire your new designers, and engingers, which we the customer is paying for in the hiked price and getting a worser, yes i said worser machine.

the grandfathers of exmark built the best machine. face it. you guys cant top it.

nuconz
09-21-2009, 07:48 AM
I have always heard that exmark had the best cut in the market, I am really disappointed after this.

never heard this one at all.

when the salesman sold me the Hustler SZ 66/30 kohler in 2007 he said this was the best thing he sold. this included exmark and kubota.

he meant best thing in cut and handling.

ElephantNest
09-25-2009, 07:30 AM
Never heard exmark was the best? They sure used to be.

I cut a lawn yesterday that was ONE day late, and the Lazer would barely cut it. I had to cut it twice, and it still looked like crap. It was bogging down in almost normal growth, so when I made my second pass, the cut grass left on top that I was trying to disperse, was ALSO bogging the mower down, until it almost stalled! I finished the job with my 36" TTHP and it cut it beautifully in ONE pass. Hmmmm, bogs the 27 HP down so much it almost dies, and the 15 HP breeezes right through it.

My dealer and a rep are supposed to be meeting me today on a one of my jobs........after all this, and the fact that they refuse to even respond to my email, there no way in Hell I'm keeping this POS.

nuconz
09-25-2009, 08:52 AM
Never heard exmark was the best? They sure used to be.
.

i don't think any suspended deck can beat the front mount for cut, so "best" it probably ain't.

and i've never used a mower that handled with anywhere near the agility of the hustler z and super z machines i've owned. they dance!

puppypaws
09-25-2009, 09:55 AM
i don't think any suspended deck can beat the front mount for cut, so "best" it probably ain't.

and i've never used a mower that handled with anywhere near the agility of the hustler z and super z machines i've owned. they dance!

Without doubt the Super Z is the smoothest handling and operating zero turn mower ever manufactured.

Wizz
09-25-2009, 10:20 AM
Not to mention the issues they are having with the new Next Lazers. He are a few of the confirmed issues:

1) Wheel motor failures- Exmark has acknowledged that they received an entire batch of wheel motors where the seals were installed upside down...my left side wheel motor had a total seal failure and the motor was replaced, other affected wheel motors are seeping fluid if the seal hasn't completely blown out.

2) Throttle/Choke linkage completely falling apart on Kohler powered units, there is a TSB out for this problem.

3) Fuel gauge problems- Exmark confirmed that they are having issues with some of the electronic fuel gauges on the Next Lazers not working properly in that they read only either full or empty (mine is at the shop, again, for this issue now).

4) Plastic idler pulleys chipping- There is another TSB out for this, not until next year's model do they plan to use steel pulleys which they should of done from the beginning on a 'commercial' machine instead of trying to pinch pennies.


There may be more issues that surface as they keep selling more of the Next Lazers, they did a very poor job at R&D and it seems they are basically having the customers do the bulk of the R&D for them. I asked my dealer for a direct exchange for a recent model off the assembly line (not a buy-back), and they still said no even though the mower practically lives at the dealer's shop with only 19 hours on the meter. My wife and I didn't drop $8,000 on a mower for it to live at the dealer's shop, I would of gone with a Scag or even a Toro instead looking back now...something that's already proven itself reliable.

And yes, Exmark did forget to put a bottle of KY Jelly in the cup holder when they sold us this piece of junk.

puppypaws
09-25-2009, 11:01 AM
Not to mention the issues they are having with the new Next Lazers. He are a few of the confirmed issues:

1) Wheel motor failures- Exmark has acknowledged that they received an entire batch of wheel motors where the seals were installed upside down...my left side wheel motor had a total seal failure and the motor was replaced, other affected wheel motors are seeping fluid if the seal hasn't completely blown out.

2) Throttle/Choke linkage completely falling apart on Kohler powered units, there is a TSB out for this problem.

3) Fuel gauge problems- Exmark confirmed that they are having issues with some of the electronic fuel gauges on the Next Lazers not working properly in that they read only either full or empty (mine is at the shop, again, for this issue now).

4) Plastic idler pulleys chipping- There is another TSB out for this, not until next year's model do they plan to use steel pulleys which they should of done from the beginning on a 'commercial' machine instead of trying to pinch pennies.


There may be more issues that surface as they keep selling more of the Next Lazers, they did a very poor job at R&D and it seems they are basically having the customers do the bulk of the R&D for them. I asked my dealer for a direct exchange for a recent model off the assembly line (not a buy-back), and they still said no even though the mower practically lives at the dealer's shop with only 19 hours on the meter. My wife and I didn't drop $8,000 on a mower for it to live at the dealer's shop, I would of gone with a Scag or even a Toro instead looking back now...something that's already proven itself reliable.

And yes, Exmark did forget to put a bottle of KY Jelly in the cup holder when they sold us this piece of junk.

That is truly a shame, in today's economy your company best put out the best mower it is capable of manufacturing. Exmark sales are already down a very large percentage, they can't stand a poor product in the field giving trouble and causing negative publicity.

This is the type thing that promotes bankruptcy, people may not realize this but Exmark distributors are being dropped left and right. One in NC I know of has been a distributor for 27 years, and they will no longer be affiliated with Exmark at the end of next month. This is no fault of the distributor, but appears to be a reorganization attempt by Exmark to keep their ship from sinking. Listening to people speak about the negative points of their new mower series sounds like there are more holes being drilled in their ships hull. When a ship reaches a certain weight point; it sinks in a hurry, I feel assured Exmark has all the pumps running in attempt to relieve their ship of excess weight. They are throwing distributors overboard in another attempt to lighten their load as part of the plan.

In this economy (which I understand from knowledgeable sources our recession is over, OK), you must take all necessary measures to keep your companies head above water. I'm not sure this was the year to introduce a new model into a floundering market; unless you were 110% sure you had a flawless and better design.

ElephantNest
09-25-2009, 02:09 PM
My dealer and an exmark rep met me at my first job this morning, which had only 8 days of growth and the thing was bogging so badly it wanted to kill. They brought me a 52" with a 23 HP ( mine is 27HP) with the TriVantage deck, and it cut circles around the Next Lazer. They took my Next Z with them, and left me with the 23 HP machine to finish the day, and I finished the jobs quicker than I've ever done them with the 27 HP.

So, they are trying......but still wasting my time, because I know what the machine is capable of.......or rather...what it SHOULD be capable of...and it's not up to exmark standards. My dealer even commented after seeing the 23HP cut, "That's an exmark cut", and I fully agreed, it looked great. The pass right next to it with the Next Lazer looked like crap.

We'll see what they offer to do, and I will keep the boards informed.

*Edit*

Oh, and I have still YET to receive a return email from about a month or more ago when I wrote to them. The one rep I'm dealing with called, to see if anyone had ever called or written me back, and I told him no. He said that's unacceptable, and someone should be contacting me, but noone has. Just thought that was worth mentioning.

puppypaws
09-25-2009, 03:04 PM
My dealer and an exmark rep met me at my first job this morning, which had only 8 days of growth and the thing was bogging so badly it wanted to kill. They brought me a 52" with a 23 HP ( mine is 27HP) with the TriVantage deck, and it cut circles around the Next Lazer. They took my Next Z with them, and left me with the 23 HP machine to finish the day, and I finished the jobs quicker than I've ever done them with the 27 HP.

So, they are trying......but still wasting my time, because I know what the machine is capable of.......or rather...what it SHOULD be capable of...and it's not up to exmark standards. My dealer even commented after seeing the 23HP cut, "That's an exmark cut", and I fully agreed, it looked great. The pass right next to it with the Next Lazer looked like crap.

We'll see what they offer to do, and I will keep the boards informed.

*Edit*

Oh, and I have still YET to receive a return email from about a month or more ago when I wrote to them. The one rep I'm dealing with called, to see if anyone had ever called or written me back, and I told him no. He said that's unacceptable, and someone should be contacting me, but noone has. Just thought that was worth mentioning.

Believe me, all mower manufactures read what is said in this forum, and the information travels faster than most like. Now is the time for all mower manufacture to do everything in their power to satisfy customers. These will be the ones that continue to thrive while others may fail. I think it all gets back to what the bible says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," pretty simple, but some Americans have a tendency to forget. A number of businesses use the saying, "let me do you first, before you get a chance to do me."

GravelyGuy
09-25-2009, 04:22 PM
It's like were running totally different machines??? Does yours have a "made in China" stamp?

908LawnPro
09-25-2009, 06:39 PM
Does anyone know of any TSBs for the toro G3s?

Good luck getting your mower fixed, replaced or refunded. I feel I'm in the same boat.

puppypaws
09-25-2009, 07:35 PM
It's like were running totally different machines??? Does yours have a "made in China" stamp?

I know for a fact the mower companies monitor this site very closely. I had a little backlash from information I put on this site about Exmark, (true information is the worse type), well I say a little backlash, it was made known to me they did not like their business made open to the public. I say if your business practices need to be hidden from the public, there is a good chance you are being somewhat deceptive. :nono:

Bad Boy is able to compete in the same market with no pricing secrets, I wonder what the difference is? :confused:

juspayme
09-26-2009, 01:27 AM
well puppy i hope ex-mark does watch this site.
tell them to quit trying to build a new mower. THE OLD EX MARKS ARE FINE.
i bought 2 28 kaw 60 ultra cut mowers they were the o8 models. if you know ex marks, they were the same models in 2001.

point is they are redesigning something that doesn't need redesigned. an ex mark rep told me that they have to change models like cars so its more exciting to purchase a new one.

well if your going to redesign a new mower, put a cab on it with air condition, and/or heat. plastic spindle's and bad pumps are not the answer in the redesign.

my coil just went at 112 hours. a fluke, maybe.

my old ex-mark i bought in 2001, the left pump went at 1850ish hours and the second one went around 2100 hours.

toro, who now owns ex mark, need to hire back the original owners of ex mark to straighten things up.

when my warranties are up, i got my eyes on you hustler. not sold on them yet, but guys on here saying there pretty good.:clapping:

mjealey
09-26-2009, 08:58 AM
If exmark is watching this site they need to retool their dealerships. They're not very good at all. I went with check book in hand about 2 months ago, and was actually probably going to get a new Lazer. Walked around in the showroom for 10 minutes before somebody said something or acknowledged me. I guess they think I don't have money since I am in my tweties and not driving up in a Isuzu NPR and don't have 700 accounts a week. No interest in doing business and getting my business. It is an awful experience every time I go into an Exmark dealer, and it isn't just one either. I amreally glad I didn't get one, because I had the opportunity to spend some time on a new Lazer and I am very glad I didn't get one. Sorry Exmark, but the quality no longer backs up the price. Tell your dealers to get their noses out of the air and stop thinking their **** don't stink. If there is any Exmark reps on here, respond to this post and I will be glad to give you my #, and 10 other commercial compamies that think the same thing. I will gladly give you my e-mail adress too. I feel a lot better now!!!!

Hoy landscaping
09-26-2009, 09:52 AM
exmark is running on their name. they build up there name then in tough times like this they cut cost and cut corners. john deere does the same thing. theve built this name up for over 100 years and now there equipment is nowere near what it used to be

MOHUSTLER
09-26-2009, 09:55 AM
If exmark is watching this site they need to retool their dealerships. They're not very good at all. I went with check book in hand about 2 months ago, and was actually probably going to get a new Lazer. Walked around in the showroom for 10 minutes before somebody said something or acknowledged me. I guess they think I don't have money since I am in my tweties and not driving up in a Isuzu NPR and don't have 700 accounts a week. No interest in doing business and getting my business. It is an awful experience every time I go into an Exmark dealer, and it isn't just one either. I amreally glad I didn't get one, because I had the opportunity to spend some time on a new Lazer and I am very glad I didn't get one. Sorry Exmark, but the quality no longer backs up the price. Tell your dealers to get their noses out of the air and stop thinking their **** don't stink. If there is any Exmark reps on here, respond to this post and I will be glad to give you my #, and 10 other commercial compamies that think the same thing. I will gladly give you my e-mail adress too. I feel a lot better now!!!!

Lol sounds like your town is the same as mine! There is an exmark dealer here who has been around for 10+ years and he has the same attitude. Hes been my best customer getting people into my shop. I do not know if its exmarks problem or just the dealer base in general. I will stand up for exmark here and say that I have met some ( non exmark) dealers who were just as rude and nose stuck in the air.

I have never understood as a dealer why you think the people walking into your shop owe you something. Its us the dealers who owe you something.

puppypaws
09-26-2009, 10:56 AM
I have never understood as a dealer why you think the people walking into your shop owe you something. Its us the dealers who owe you something.

You are a very intelligent person, but it goes deeper than that, I would say you try to treat people the way you wish to be treated.

These companies, distributors, reps and dealers need to be doing everything in their power to satisfy their customers, especially in this economy. It seems to have gotten to be the American way since times have been good for so long, that dealers give the attitude of you being lucky if they sell you a mower from their business. You can say folks in the business of selling equipment to the American public have changed, if you don't know how to treat people, they will find someone that does. The ones that don't bend over backwards to serve their customers may find themselves taking their shingles down, and I don't feel the least bit sorry for them.

I know for a fact my dealer has bought up quiet a bit of inventory from dealers not able to make it through this recession. Now, I wonder what the difference is, some dealers can't sell a mower, while mine sell all he gets and then turns around and sells theirs. I think we can all assume there is something different about the way my dealer treats his customers.

Frue
09-26-2009, 11:24 AM
Over the years I have cut with a lot of decks! I probabbly have more seat time on these z'ss then anyone in our county. Having said that the exmark tri advantage has been exmarks best deck. See they brought the ultra cut out to solve the wet grass issue it never did (actually the ultra cut does very pukish in wet grass) So they tweaked it again with the triton, only this time it blew up in there face. The reason for them tweaking the deck was because toro caught up with there decks. See the toro will cut wet grass. I did a test my toro against a friends ultra cut, it just rained we split the field down the middle and cut. Afterwards we looked his side, his had clumps the size of my front tire, mine was clumped but no where nears the mess. Toro built a good deck after copying exmarks. The only difference was toro made a way of opening the baffle to alow the grass to come out.

Exmark needs to get back to there roots bring back the tri advantage decks and let the grass fly...... The old exmarks where great machines. The new toros and exmarks have promise but there are some issues out of the gate. I am not loyal to any company the only company I am loyal to is the one that puts green in my pocket. Every mower has its corks so just work around them.. The exmarks wont sut wet grass mow at 11. The ferris wont cut wet grass and will stringers if you mow at 12 mile an hour. So I bag in the morning and cut at 10 mile an hour. Its all about adapting to your situation. Maybe scag is the best mower. Who knows?

ElephantNest
11-03-2009, 08:41 AM
UPDATE: I finally got my refund, well, almost all of it. Only took two months+!

*sigh

They sent my two payments back Halloween day, minus $125 that they say was paid to my dealer by them for the promotion, and they said I have to get that back from him.

So essentially, I still have money out on a mulch kit ($250), 4 or 5 sets of blades ( ~$200+), and $125 "dealer incentive" or something, that they took from my payment.

Still don't have a 52" machine like I need, wasted 2 months of the growing season dealing with this POS, and waiting to make sure I got refunded.

Sure has left a bad taste in the mouth of a LOYAL eXmark user for the last 20 years. The worst part? They don't seem to care one bit. I see the end for them in sight, sadly.

MOHUSTLER
11-03-2009, 09:44 AM
At least they did give you your money back. Sorry to hear that it took so long.

MJB
11-03-2009, 12:14 PM
well puppy i hope ex-mark does watch this site.
tell them to quit trying to build a new mower. THE OLD EX MARKS ARE FINE.
i bought 2 28 kaw 60 ultra cut mowers they were the o8 models. if you know ex marks, they were the same models in 2001.

point is they are redesigning something that doesn't need redesigned. an ex mark rep told me that they have to change models like cars so its more exciting to purchase a new one.

well if your going to redesign a new mower, put a cab on it with air condition, and/or heat. plastic spindle's and bad pumps are not the answer in the redesign.

my coil just went at 112 hours. a fluke, maybe.

my old ex-mark i bought in 2001, the left pump went at 1850ish hours and the second one went around 2100 hours.

toro, who now owns ex mark, need to hire back the original owners of ex mark to straighten things up.

when my warranties are up, i got my eyes on you hustler. not sold on them yet, but guys on here saying there pretty good.:clapping:


The Hustler XR7 deck is not all it's cut out to be either. So demo it for a few days. I have to clean my deck daily or it will build up and just blow the grass over. I cut northern grasses and the xr7 still is a pain even after all it's modifications. Right now I got mine set for mulching, if I side discharge it leaves strips of uncut grass. Now if you live down south it's an animal and is a good machine to look at.

So I will be testing a Bad Boy Outlaw next year hopefully, as well as a few other brands. But no more big name companies for me.