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Greenery
09-14-2009, 04:36 PM
Ok i'm stumped. I went to start my 03 mcghs with a kohler 18 and it just clicked so I thought dead battery jumped it and it would run a minute or two then die. then I jumped it again and it would die as soon as i would engage either the blades or fsc so I unhooked the safety switches and got it to work for about ten minutes then it just died again. jumped it again and got it over to the garage and i heard a pop shut it down to take a look and the battery cover had shot off. so I replaced the battery hooked everything back up like it's supposed to be and turned the key and smoke shot out of the time delay module. So I thought that must be the problem got a new one put it in and poof that one shot out a puff of smoke too. I've been going through the wires looking for shorts but can't find any. the terminal on the time delay module thats turning black is the one with the brown wire that goes to a relay and also the fsc switch. Any ideas?

ericg
09-14-2009, 05:31 PM
Greenery, the relay that the brown wire goes to is the start relay. There is also a brown with a white tracer wire connected to the same terminal as the brown wire that goes to the fsc switch. From what you describe, you have a direct short. Did you disconnect the start relay and check for a ground condition on the red, brown and two yellow wires? Have you checked the relays and the back of your ignition switch for corrosion?

Eric

Greenery
09-14-2009, 06:57 PM
Greenery, the relay that the brown wire goes to is the start relay. There is also a brown with a white tracer wire connected to the same terminal as the brown wire that goes to the fsc switch. From what you describe, you have a direct short. Did you disconnect the start relay and check for a ground condition on the red, brown and two yellow wires? Have you checked the relays and the back of your ignition switch for corrosion?

Eric

I did not check for a ground condition on the red, brown and yellow wires. How do I do that? I do have a multi meter im guessing i would use that to check. I did clean up the relay connections but not the ignition switch which I will do. I really appreciate your help .:usflag:

ericg
09-14-2009, 07:26 PM
Place your multi meter selector on ohms and put one lead of the meter on a good ground like the negative terminal of the battery and use the remaining lead to check each wire for ground. If your meter has an audible selection to check continuity, use that as the meter will beep when you have continuity to ground.

Eric

Greenery
09-14-2009, 07:40 PM
I'm assuming that I don't want any of those wires grounded and if one is then that means a short somewhere on that wire? if it's grounded what will the meter show?

ericg
09-14-2009, 08:46 PM
if you're utilizing a digital meter, it would be a reading like .001. If it is a meter with a needle, it will read near zero. The best thing to do is go to the Walker website and download the parts manual for your machine which has the wiring diagram. Print it out and follow the wiring from the brown wire to the relay etc. Its hard to diagnoses electrical problems over the web. With the wiring diagram and a multi meter, you will find the problem fast. Click on this link and it will take you to the manual for your machine. The wiring diagram is on page 62.

http://www.walkermowers.com/Manuals/model_c_twin/6000-9_pub.pdf

Eric

Greenery
09-14-2009, 09:31 PM
if you're utilizing a digital meter, it would be a reading like .001. If it is a meter with a needle, it will read near zero. The best thing to do is go to the Walker website and download the parts manual for your machine which has the wiring diagram. Print it out and follow the wiring from the brown wire to the relay etc. Its hard to diagnoses electrical problems over the web. With the wiring diagram and a multi meter, you will find the problem fast. Click on this link and it will take you to the manual for your machine. The wiring diagram is on page 62.

http://www.walkermowers.com/Manuals/model_c_twin/6000-9_pub.pdf

Eric

Again thank you for the help. Ok i'm getting somwhere if i unplug the connecter from the time delay module and test the brown wire i get a beep meaning that wire is grounded so I unplugged the connecter going to the fsc switch and then it doesn't beep when i retest it so my short must be between the switch and the connecter for the time delay module. how do I test the switch? I did place each lead on the two wires of the switch and it didn't beep.

Greenery
09-14-2009, 09:43 PM
ok so I was double checking it and when I activate the switch it stops beeping which i'm guessing is what it's supposed to do . So my problem is probably else where.

ericg
09-14-2009, 10:02 PM
Greenery, if I remember the wiring, the brown wire goes to the start relay and the brown with white stripe wire goes to the fsc switch. What if you leave the fsc switch disconnected and try and start the machine, even if you have to jump the starter solenoid? Again, if you start tracing the wires based on the wiring diagram, it should lead you to the right place. In addition, relay "C" is a delay relay that works with the time delay module. There could be a problem there as well which is causing a ground or short on the module.

Eric

Greenery
09-16-2009, 01:44 PM
well I spent hours trying to find the problem with no luck. so what I did was just unplugged the time delay module and the associated relay and it works fine just no safety switches which I know is a bad deal. It still won't start if the blades or fsc are engaged but when running I can get off the seat with both engaged and it will stay running. I'm leaning towards somthing wrong with the ignition switch but i'm just not sure. the weird thing is the terminal that blows on the time delat switch is the brown wire which I do believe is just a ground for the fsc switch with the switch activated it is grounded and with it unactivated it is open.

ericg
09-16-2009, 04:01 PM
Greenery, the brown wire from the time delay is connected to terminal 85 of the start relay and acts as a return for the coil since terminal 85 is hot when the key is in the start position. This would engage terminals 30 and 87. The B relay is there to prevent you from starting the machine if either the neutral switch is not engaged or the pto is on without the seat switch being operated. In other words, you can start the machine and get off of the seat without the motor quitting as long as the machine is in neutral and the pto is off. If you are sitting in neutral with the pto engaged and you get off of the seat for more than 1.4 seconds, the time delay actives the delay relay which grounds the magneto. The delay module was put in the system after complaints from users that as they were mowing, the machine would cut out. It was determined that the bouncing of the mower caused the operator to lift off of the seat for a few seconds, killing the machine.

Eric

Greenery
09-16-2009, 04:09 PM
Am I correct in thnking that there power being sent into the brown wire some how and thats why that terminal is burning up? if I hook everythng up as normal and just turn the key to run without starting it fries that terminal on the time delay module.

ericg
09-16-2009, 05:06 PM
Greenery, I would say yes considering that terminal 86 which is the yellow wire off of the ignition switch terminal s1 that is the positive feed when you are in the start position. You need a negative (return or ground) to operate the coil of the relay to make the 30 and 87 contacts work. They could have utilized a time delay relay which could have taken care of the ground but that would have been too expensive so they use a cheaper module and have the module activate the relay to ground the magneto. I would rather have seen a time delay device that would directly ground the magneto rather than one device handing off to another. Since Walker is not going to change their permissive devices, we are stuck with what we have on the machines. You did some good investigative work.

Eric