starter fertilzer and damaging microorganisms and roots/

[greenskeeper44]

Im trying to find research that proves this and wanted to know if anyone had any info or links. i would love not to use starter fertilizer in the future and always looking for more low impact sustainable approaches. i would love to use tea or bills hydro seed just looking for research that proves that using phosphorus damages the soils ecosystem and the root systems. Ive seeded quite a few yards and played around with using starter on some and some not on the others. To be honest I had two renovations side by side on the same irrigation schedule and the one with starter applied germinated faster and is maturing faster than the yard that had no starter applied. I havent played with using the teas yet or the hydro product but would like to. Any info would be appreciated!

Also next year plan on doing test plots on a 1 acre area. Gonna play around with doing an all organic, all synthetic, combination and just testing products to prove what works the best in our area. Hopefully this will give me and others more definate answers on how to maintain turf the most effective way and what products works the best for us. Going to do soil test and track results for 2 years. In the futrue hopefully I can get product companies involved because this will be an unbiased non university test. Just want to know what works the best so we can be the best we can be.

[Smallaxe]

Some soils will perform better with a starterfertilizer at the beginning. Most lawns that have been hammered with NPK every 4-6 weeks should be fine this time of year with compost topdressing covering the seed. More expensive.

The most important comparison is the root depth of the new seedlings. Starter fert can very easliy start the roots growing at the surface ready to create thatch - as soon as it is born. :(

Microbes do not die in the presence of P in the soil. They mine it. They make it available to plants.
What you are looking for is like saying: Adding coral calcium to the yogurt will kill all the beneficial bacteria we need in our stomachs.
Chasing fairytales and false agendas will not help you understand how life works in the soil.

[Kiril]

Axe ...... an excess of just about anything can lead to a toxic condition.

[terrapro]

Axe ...... an excess of just about anything can lead to a toxic condition.

I concur Kiril...

I haven't used starter fert for years. This is my personal opinion but I think a good compost or even 50/50 mix and a good straw with tackifer will yield better results than with just starter fert.

I just finished a big patch job two weeks ago where a tree spade drove all over a customers lawn. I only spread milorganite and used a quality 50/50 mix and good straw with tackifer. I stopped by last thursday not even a full week later I had to part the grass to find the straw below! The seed was a quality 3/3/3 mix from a local supplier which also makes a huge difference.

[Smallaxe]

Axe ...... an excess of just about anything can lead to a toxic condition.

Well, I don't imagine there are 2 many microbes in the synthetic P bin down at the co-op or in a bag of NPK.
Just how much starter fertilizer are we talking about dumping on the ground anyways?

Perhaps that is the research that can be done... keep dumping fertilizer on the ground until life ceases in the soil... that way this guy has his answer...

[greenskeeper44]

Im talking about just applying it at seeding. I never apply pho after that since our soils are sufficient in pho. I have had a couple people tell me that if you apply it at seeding that it will kill the microbes and will harm the roots. I think its bogus so i was wanting some research on it.

[JDUtah]

Im talking about just applying it at seeding. I never apply pho after that since our soils are sufficient in pho. I have had a couple people tell me that if you apply it at seeding that it will kill the microbes and will harm the roots. I think its bogus so i was wanting some research on it.

I suspect the same. Although i think there is research showing the P does inhibit the growth of Mycorrhizae

[ICT Bill]

Im talking about just applying it at seeding. I never apply pho after that since our soils are sufficient in pho. I have had a couple people tell me that if you apply it at seeding that it will kill the microbes and will harm the roots. I think its bogus so i was wanting some research on it.

The "fertilizer will kill the microbes" thing comes from high salt fertilizers in Ag, does it throw off the balance? probably because you are now selecting for microbes that like the fertilizer to eat

You are applying a food source, the colonies of microbe that like that food will reproduce faster and secrete "their" enzyme to break it down, the enzyme may (will definitely) be detrimental to the others that are established

When the food source goes away so do the fertilizer microbes and the balance has to start all over again

Every bit of research that I have seen on Mycorrhizae shows that applied P slows or stops them from working. They go on welfare, take a check and don't produce anything. When the P level goes down, they renew their work

[greenskeeper44]

do you have any of that research that you can share with me. Also what should i be using and the research that says why?

Thanks

[Kiril]

Also what should i be using and the research that says why?

No research is going to tell you what you should be using. Successful land management starts with a soil test .... everything else is just a stab in the dark, be it an educated guess or not.

You can start your literature search here.

http://mycorrhiza.ag.utk.edu/mlate.htm