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ricsin1
09-14-2009, 11:57 PM
i purchased a home recently . the lawn was HORRIBLE. no grass - 99% weed... I recently started using a lawn care service. they got the grass under control somewhat. they told me i have bermuda in the front yard - fescue in the backyard. I want to have an ALL FESCUE yard.......

the just came sept 11 and applied a pre/post emergent weed control on my bermuda. had i been thinking i would've told them not to do this.. I want to kill off the bermuda with Roundup and then aerate and overseed that area with fescue seed.

being that they just applied the weed control on my bermuda on Sept 11 how long do i have to wait to kill off the bermuda and seed with fescue. I know that fescue seed may be affected by the weed control recently applied ....

how long should i wait ........ thanks...

bigslick7878
09-15-2009, 01:06 AM
i purchased a home recently . the lawn was HORRIBLE. no grass - 99% weed... I recently started using a lawn care service. they got the grass under control somewhat. they told me i have bermuda in the front yard - fescue in the backyard. I want to have an ALL FESCUE yard.......

the just came sept 11 and applied a pre/post emergent weed control on my bermuda. had i been thinking i would've told them not to do this.. I want to kill off the bermuda with Roundup and then aerate and overseed that area with fescue seed.

being that they just applied the weed control on my bermuda on Sept 11 how long do i have to wait to kill off the bermuda and seed with fescue. I know that fescue seed may be affected by the weed control recently applied ....

how long should i wait ........ thanks...

Are you sure it was a PRE mergent they applied? Why would they be doing that at this time of year?

Usually that is for crabgrass and I know up here you would be about 4 months late, maybe it is different for bermuda I don't know.

But if you get a quality aerator when you punch the holes you punch through the barrier as well on the soil surface. I would kill it, then go over with the aerator a few times and punch a TON of holes and then seed. You can seed about a week after the Round up.

Make sure you get a quality heat resistent turf type tall fescue so it can take that southern heat during summer.

ricsin1
09-15-2009, 12:15 PM
THIS IS WHAT MY LAWN CARE SERVICE DID TO THE BERMUDA:
HERE IS AN EXCERPT OF WHAT THEY DID:

Heading into the end of summer we apply another granular slow release fertilizer mixed to maintain the color and feed the roots of your turf. Grassy and broadleaf weed controls are applied as needed. Lawns that receive this treatment in September will get a liquid pre-emergent application with broadleaf weed control, grassy weed control as needed, and a high potassium based fertilizer to strengthen the root systems. The pre-emergent is designed to help prevent winter annual weeds.

I'm thinking of using the ROUND UP on the whole yard on Oct 1st -- then aerating and seeding the next week....... I wonder how long it'll take the roundup to kill off all the bermuda...?

bigslick7878
09-15-2009, 01:06 PM
THIS IS WHAT MY LAWN CARE SERVICE DID TO THE BERMUDA:
HERE IS AN EXCERPT OF WHAT THEY DID:

Heading into the end of summer we apply another granular slow release fertilizer mixed to maintain the color and feed the roots of your turf. Grassy and broadleaf weed controls are applied as needed. Lawns that receive this treatment in September will get a liquid pre-emergent application with broadleaf weed control, grassy weed control as needed, and a high potassium based fertilizer to strengthen the root systems. The pre-emergent is designed to help prevent winter annual weeds.

I'm thinking of using the ROUND UP on the whole yard on Oct 1st -- then aerating and seeding the next week....... I wonder how long it'll take the roundup to kill off all the bermuda...?

I did not know that "winter annual weeds" were that much of an issue in the south,maybe someone else who is from that area could comment.

Anyway what I said still holds true, bermuda should be dead a week later then you can saerate and seed.

timturf
09-16-2009, 09:48 PM
Good luck killing the bermunda!!!

Roundup will make it sick, even make you believe you killed it, but it will return late spring early summer

Several app of roundup/ornamec mix will get most of it, doubt if you have enough time to do this year!

get a soil test now
corect any soi;l chemistry problems by sept 1 2010
keep weeds uner copntrol in 2010
2010, be on a cool season program, do everying to discourage the bermunda
research the two app approach to killing bermunda
reseed next fall
And be prepared for some bermunda in 2011

Just some quich thoughts

KDLAWN
09-24-2009, 12:35 AM
if they used pre-m it will take 3 months before you can plant seed from what i have been told. I roundup and pre-m my yard last fall and then planted TTF and nothing came up. i started asking why, the answer was I used pre-m and they told me it takes 3 months before i can plant seed.

KDLAWN
09-24-2009, 12:36 AM
not sure if areating will break the baRRIER OR NOT. i WAS TOLD IT WOULD NOT BREAK THE BARRIER ENOUGH for the seed to germinate. but ask around. you might get another answer

ricsin1
09-24-2009, 12:39 AM
What is " pre-m " ???? what does that stand for??

if you could let me know that will be great!! i've got a roundup scheduled for tommorow and plan on areatiing and overseeding on Oct 1............

hopwfully my lawn care service knows what the heck they are doing!!!

JoeinJasper
09-24-2009, 08:04 AM
This is a typical program for the Atlanta area. Pre-Emergent (Pre-m) targets winter weeds, mostly Po anna - a grassy annual that creates green spots in the dormant bermuda. You can not seed fescue for 3-4 months after a Pre-m application. By that time it will be Jan, which is too late to seed fescue with reliable results.
I would discuss you plans for your yard with your application company and work toward seeding next Sept. You will be unhappy with the results if you attempt it now.
Plan a head...One app of Round-up will not kill off bermuda. You will need at least 3 apps of round-up mixed with ornamec or sethoxedem. Start this process in late July to reseed in Sept.
Joe

timturf
09-24-2009, 09:59 AM
Pre m

At one time refered to pendimetlin (sp) a pre emerge for grassey weeds and some broadleaf weeds, now most in the industry refer to Pre M as any of the pre emerge products to control grassy weeds ( like crab, goose, poa, others) before they germinate. These chemicals general control some limited number of broadleaf weeds from germinating, as well as any desirable turfgrass seed from germinating

Hope this helps

TurnGreen1
09-25-2009, 12:40 AM
what if there was no Pre M applied and Round up was applied would a week be suffice to aerate and seed fescue. Or is more time needed?

ricsin1
09-25-2009, 12:51 AM
FIRST OF ALL I WANT TO THANK YOU GUYS.....!! ARMED WITH ALL YOUR GREAT INFO MY LAWN CARE SERVICE **AGREED ** THAT THE PRE M THEY PUT DOWN ON MY BERMUDA WILL LAST ABOUT 3 MONTHS AND WOULD AFFECT THE GERMINATION OF THE FESCUE SEEDS I WANTED TO PUT DOWN!

I have a bermuda front lawn and a fesue backyard and fesue on both sides... so im going to have them come out and just aerate and overseed the back and sides next week and then I'll have to work on replacing the bermuda next year............

QUESTION:
can i start this process in EARLY SPRING 2010? lets say I try to RoundUp my bermuda front yard around Feburary 2009 then overseed - OR - would roundup not work if the bermuda is still dormant? Would bermuda still be dormant in Feburary??

if Feb 2010 wont work then WHEN should I start to try and kill off the bermuda in the front yard? would roundup work? would another product work better....? I'll want to overseed with fescue as EARLY as possible ( Sept 1, 2010 )

CAROLINALAWNMAN1
09-25-2009, 01:31 AM
first of all i want to thank you guys.....!! Armed with all your great info my lawn care service **agreed ** that the pre m they put down on my bermuda will last about 3 months and would affect the germination of the fescue seeds i wanted to put down!

I have a bermuda front lawn and a fesue backyard and fesue on both sides... So im going to have them come out and just aerate and overseed the back and sides next week and then i'll have to work on replacing the bermuda next year............

Question:
Can i start this process in early spring 2010? Lets say i try to roundup my bermuda front yard around feburary 2009 then overseed - or - would roundup not work if the bermuda is still dormant? Would bermuda still be dormant in feburary??

If feb 2010 wont work then when should i start to try and kill off the bermuda in the front yard? Would roundup work? Would another product work better....? I'll want to overseed with fescue as early as possible ( sept 1, 2010 )

round up will not work on dormant grass...u will need to wait for the grass to green up then spray off your grass to get your process started....go ahead and put down your preemergent about four weeks before your bermuda starts to green up if you do not do this you will just get weeds when you dig it all out...then let it all green up that will take about a month.. Spray it off i use finale but an earlier poster mention a good program too... It will take 2-3 apps about 10 days apart to get it all...that should give u the time to get 3 months past the peremergent application....pull it out..over seed and fertilize then water til its green...there is also a product that gets rid of bermuda in fescue grass...it is called acclaim extra...if u went this way you would do everything as above except spray the acclaim instead of roundup...then 3 months after the preemergent you can begin to fertilze and overseed and the bermuda will just begin to die out...the acclaim has to be applied monthly for 4 months and then repeated the following year to get rid of it all...just a couple of possible ideas hope this helps a little

greendoctor
09-25-2009, 02:43 AM
The proven protocol to selectively remove bermuda from cool season grasses is Acclaim + Turflon ester applied monthly. Also, bermuda tends to be more aggressive in lawns that are mowed too short, fertilized with too much N and potassium and not watered enough. Of course, I take the appearance of bermuda as a sign that the cool season grass is not able to deal with the stress of the warm part of the year.

ricsin1
09-25-2009, 05:40 PM
thanks - I've never heard of ACCLAIM & TURFLON before. I'll do some research on these products and see what they're all about ....

LAST QUESTION:

Since the last Pre M application to the bermuda lawn was Sept 11 & it last approx 3 months .. I wonder if it would just be better to TILL UP THE GROUND maybe in Feb 2010 and start from FESCUE SEED from there...? Hopefully the ground is "soft enough" in Feb in Atlanta, GA to till up all the bermuda while its still dormant ,, get it all out and then reseed with fescue seed in early February and have it establish itself all March/April/May before the summer kicks in...???

does this sound doable or would the ACCLAIM & TURFLON treatment in the late summer be better??

CAROLINALAWNMAN1
09-25-2009, 08:05 PM
thanks - I've never heard of ACCLAIM & TURFLON before. I'll do some research on these products and see what they're all about ....

LAST QUESTION:

Since the last Pre M application to the bermuda lawn was Sept 11 & it last approx 3 months .. I wonder if it would just be better to TILL UP THE GROUND maybe in Feb 2010 and start from FESCUE SEED from there...? Hopefully the ground is "soft enough" in Feb in Atlanta, GA to till up all the bermuda while its still dormant ,, get it all out and then reseed with fescue seed in early February and have it establish itself all March/April/May before the summer kicks in...???

does this sound doable or would the ACCLAIM & TURFLON treatment in the late summer be better??


u will not get it all that way....u will then be committed to the A&T program....remember thta program is a suppression control program...it is a little like chemotherapy...u are absolutely going to have to apply it every 30 days for four months probably starting first or second week of May in Georgia
then the same thing the next year u r chemically pounding out the bermuda......if u wait until it greens up then u can actually kill the plant...both work...u figure the rightplan for you...good luck

ricsin1
09-26-2009, 02:07 AM
did some home work on these products........... you guys are a wealth of knowledge..........

ACCLAIM -vs- TURFLON ESTER - vs- ORNAMEC

which one is the best for my needs.... remember - I have a bermuda lawn that I'm trying to turn into a fesue lawn... since my lawn care company treated it with pre m on Sept 11th and that treatment last 3 months I'm screwed and unable to try and kill and overseed with fescue this year... I'll have to wait til next year.....

comparing all 3 of these products above... if none of these say they affect FESCUE GRASS how soon after I apply these can I overseed my lawn with fescue.?? Im trying to come up with a game plan schedule and be ready to next year....... 3-4 monthly applications seem to be key but WHEN should I start and HOW SOON AFTER LAST APPLICATION can I begin to overseed..... I want to get my fescue seeds down by September 2010........

CAROLINALAWNMAN1
09-26-2009, 04:39 PM
did some home work on these products........... you guys are a wealth of knowledge..........

ACCLAIM -vs- TURFLON ESTER - vs- ORNAMEC

which one is the best for my needs.... remember - I have a bermuda lawn that I'm trying to turn into a fesue lawn... since my lawn care company treated it with pre m on Sept 11th and that treatment last 3 months I'm screwed and unable to try and kill and overseed with fescue this year... I'll have to wait til next year.....

comparing all 3 of these products above... if none of these say they affect FESCUE GRASS how soon after I apply these can I overseed my lawn with fescue.?? Im trying to come up with a game plan schedule and be ready to next year....... 3-4 monthly applications seem to be key but WHEN should I start and HOW SOON AFTER LAST APPLICATION can I begin to overseed..... I want to get my fescue seeds down by September 2010........

I dont know ornamec...in my experience turflon is usually used mixed with either acclaim extra or fusilade....i wouldnt over think it....acclaim extra will work for your needs u can mix it with the turflon...this increases the spectrum of the suppression control..u can plant the fescue in your area anytime after the first of the year as soon as you are sure the temp is not going below freezing aymore startyour acclaim program in mid may and continue it for 4 consecutive months..dont forget to do it again in 2011 no preemergent untill end of next summer..you will need to use a post emergent for spot treatment until then.....i think this covers it...good luck

greendoctor
09-26-2009, 05:06 PM
Turflon Ester is used to enhance the effect of the grass killer on the bermuda and also reduce the phytotoxicity to the desired turf species. Acclaim alone can be rather harsh, especially after more than one application in a year. Turflon minimizes this effect.

greendoctor
09-26-2009, 05:08 PM
Silly question, but why doesn't your present LCO know this protocol and why has he not sold it to you? Instead of just spreading fertilizers and Pre-M, which does little to stop bermuda.

CAROLINALAWNMAN1
09-26-2009, 05:21 PM
silly question, but why doesn't your present lco know this protocol and why has he not sold it to you? Instead of just spreading fertilizers and pre-m, which does little to stop bermuda.

amen brother

wrager
10-13-2009, 02:35 PM
If you want to have a fescue lawn in ATL, you better have an irrigation system and hope we don't have another drought. Tilling is a bad idea for preparing a lawn site. It takes years to fix.

JohnnyRocker
03-10-2010, 10:34 AM
I did not know that "winter annual weeds" were that much of an issue in the south,maybe someone else who is from that area could comment.

Anyway what I said still holds true, bermuda should be dead a week later then you can saerate and seed.

The only thing about using pre on winter annuals is it conflicts(preemergent wins) if you are overseeding with your fall aeration.

Southern Elegance
03-12-2010, 12:51 AM
alot easier to kill off the fescue. overseed the burmunda with prennial rye.

you are in the transition zone. this area is the hardest area of the u s to grow a healthy fescue lawn due to the unpredictable weather patterns. look around you will notice more and more burmunda and zoyzias lawns ever year

if you insist on fescue, sprinkler system is a must and higher mowing and fungicides