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View Full Version : The new exmark vantage(stander)


mowerdude777
09-16-2009, 07:04 PM
http://equipment.greenindustrypros.com/product/75827/Exmark_Mfg_Co_Inc_Vantage
It Seems a lot different then the Toro grandstand.

tacoma200
09-16-2009, 08:26 PM
http://equipment.greenindustrypros.com/product/75827/Exmark_Mfg_Co_Inc_Vantage
It Seems a lot different then the Toro grandstand.

Define a lot? The deck is different, I would guess they use the same basic frame work. Why build an entirely new mower when they are the same company?:confused:

pflasch
09-16-2009, 08:28 PM
There's more BLACK paint on it! ;-)

mowerdude777
09-16-2009, 08:32 PM
Define a lot? The deck is different, I would guess they use the same basic frame work. Why build an entirely new mower when they are the same company?:confused:

I belive the engine is not the same either

grassman177
09-16-2009, 08:32 PM
basically, withthat company you have a couple of decks to choose from, toro and exmark and jsut brands, uup. knew this was coming

mowerdude777
09-16-2009, 08:37 PM
basically, withthat company you have a couple of decks to choose from, toro and exmark and jsut brands, uup. knew this was coming

I kinda saw this one coming just about every one has a stander mower around I heard scag is coming out with one next year as well, but I wonder why toro does not have a navigator type mower

pflasch
09-16-2009, 08:50 PM
Here's the Scag V Rider...

The Navigator is basically dead! Exmark stopped producing them 3 years ago, and is selling off the inventory sitting in a warehouse. (This is from a very reliable source!) Poor sales against the Walker was the reason.

pflasch
09-16-2009, 09:07 PM
... and speaking of Scag... Scag had a Walker copy out a while back.
Here are the specs off of Scags website:
SCAG SCR "COUGAR" - PRODUCT DETAIL
For the ultimate in dependability, the Scag Cougar uses time-proven Scag spindle assemblies to drive the blades, not direct drive gearboxes and shear bolts. A driveshaft drives the cutter deck to deliver positive, no-slip power, even in heavy cutting conditions.
8.5 MPH forward and 5 MPH reverse speeds keep productivity at a maximum.
10 bushel (93 gallon) hopper capacity lets you spend more time cutting grass and less time dumping it.
Choose a 42", 48" or 52" "Quick-Baffle" cutter deck. Match that with a 27hp liquid-cooled Kawasaki or 25hp Kohler air cooled engine. Click here for a complete list of engine and cutter deck combinations.
The "Quick-Baffle" cutter deck lets you bag, mulch or side discharge all with the SAME deck. There's no need to waste money purchasing extra cutter decks! Save trailer space by having one machine that can do it all.
Wide range of cutting heights can easily be changed in the field without tools. Adjustment from 1.5" to 5" in 1/2" increments.
Marbain cutter blades stay sharp longer for reduced maintenance.
Dual heavy-duty Hydro-Gear hydraulic pumps and Ross wheel motors combine to give you smooth, responsive, reliable drive power.
Clog resistant, high efficiency centrifugal blower design allows 50% more air velocity than previous designs. Large 8" transition tube between the cutter deck and blower for maximum airflow.
7.5 gallon fuel capacity keeps you in the field cutting grass (dual 3.75 gallon tanks).
Extra large 23 inch drive tires, 11" front caster wheels and 16" rear caster wheel ensure better traction, less turf tearing and easy curb climbing.
Spring loaded idler arms effortlessly keep cutter deck and pump drive belts in constant, optimum adjustment for maximum life and minimum maintenance.
Operator friendly instrument panel includes an hour meter, ammeter, ignition switch, water temperature gauge (27hp Kawasaki liquid-cooled only) and separate choke and throttle controls. A preset area is available for the optional Hopper Fill Alarm system.
User-friendly design allows quick, clean access to the engine and filters, for easy maintenance.
Manual cutter deck engagement system for easy cool weather blade engagements.
Interlocked parking brake system prevents movement while trailering unit or parking on slopes. Mower will not operate with brake engaged to prevent premature brake wear.
The blower can easily be disengaged in the field to deliver maximum power to the cutter deck when mulching or side-discharging. No tools required.
The Scag "Simply the Best" commercial warranty stands behind you and your mower for years of profitable service.
Kawasaki powered Cougars come standard with a remote engine air pre-cleaner.
Oscillating discharge spout inside the hopper ensures the maximum hopper capacity is utilized.
Debris deflector is built into the rear door of the hopper. It directs dust and debris towards the ground and away from the operator.
The hopper debris screen can be easily removed in the field, without tools.
Click here to see the accessories for the Scag Cougar.
SCAG SCR "COUGAR" MODEL OPTIONS/
ENGINE AND CUTTER DECK COMBINATIONS*
SCR42-25CH --- 42 " "Quick-Baffle" Cutter Deck, 25hp Kohler air-cooled engine
SCR48-25CH --- 48 " "Quick-Baffle" Cutter Deck, 25hp Kohler air-cooled engine
SCR52-25CH --- 52 " "Quick-Baffle" Cutter Deck, 25hp Kohler air-cooled engine
SCR52-27KA --- 52 " "Quick-Baffle" Cutter Deck, 27hp Kawasaki liquid-cooled engine
* Subject to availability
SCAG COUGAR MOWER DIMENSIONS**

42" COUGAR
LENGTH: 91"
WIDTH: 43"
WEIGHT: 1260 lbs.

48" COUGAR
LENGTH: 92"
WIDTH (chute down): 49"
WEIGHT: 1285 lbs.

52" COUGAR
LENGTH: 92"
WIDTH (chute down): 53"
WEIGHT: 1350 lbs.
** Dimensions are subject to change.

It was a might on the heavy side, but it also had some great features!!
I love competition... it makes everyone try harder and make a better product!
Too bad that they gave up on that type of mower.

pflasch
09-16-2009, 09:15 PM
AND... I found a page that was no longer being published for view, and it had the video that Scag had on the Cougar site when they were selling the Cougar!

Check this out!!!!

http://scag.com/video/scr.wmv

mowerdude777
09-16-2009, 10:04 PM
Here's the Scag V Rider...

The Navigator is basically dead! Exmark stopped producing them 3 years ago, and is selling off the inventory sitting in a warehouse. (This is from a very reliable source!) Poor sales against the Walker was the reason.

oh I did not relize the navigator was no more, my dealer still had tons left

pflasch
09-16-2009, 10:21 PM
Last year I stopped by the Exmark display at GIE... no Navigator on display!! When I asked a rep at the show, he said that they wanted to use the space to introduce the NEXT Lazer Z!
What a pile of crap!!

I truly wished that the Cougar from Scag, and the Navigator from Exmark were still a REAL option.
Like I said earlier... competition makes everyone better!!

Walker is just smiling internally! The larger a company grows, the more units that they must put out before they consider it a "profit center".
Walker could probably get by manufacturing 30,000 units / yr.
Where Exmark or Toro might not consider a unit profitable until they hit 150,000 units.

Just my 2 cents

MOHUSTLER
09-17-2009, 11:08 AM
IMO its just to hard to compete aginst a company like walker who has been doing it your years and made a name for that type of mower. So when someone says they want a mower like a walker they get a walker.

It cost a company hundreds of thousands to prototype a mower and with such a select few customers that want a walker type of mower BUT not a walker... Its really a money pit to try and crack that market!

Makes me wonder about all these guys getting into the stand on market. But I do belive they are doing it right. One company cant break Wright it will take every company to make one and give the end user ALOT of options and make people forget that Wright was the brand of choice.

bt04f250
09-18-2009, 04:51 PM
hello the link for the exmark vantage is no longer working anybody save the pic i need a copy. please send me one or a new link, thanks Brian

zman2307
09-18-2009, 05:41 PM
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/craq/ExmarkMfgCoI_Vantage_YG_0.png?t=1253306449

I still had it on my cache!

foxlawn
09-18-2009, 07:06 PM
Yea apparently exmark go wind of the pics today, and they made them take it down, it is not be released until mid October. I guess a copy of the Toro grandstand is very top secret!:dizzy: Exmark really needs to get a clue...:hammerhead:

tallimeca
09-26-2009, 04:44 PM
Originally Posted by pflasch
Here's the Scag V Rider...

The Navigator is basically dead! Exmark stopped producing them 3 years ago, and is selling off the inventory sitting in a warehouse. (This is from a very reliable source!) Poor sales against the Walker was the reason.

oh I did not relize the navigator was no more, my dealer still had tons left

Totally not the truth. Gotta love the lawn site rumors and soaps.

pflasch
09-26-2009, 04:53 PM
tallimeca, you are a Power Equip Dealer, what is Exmark telling you about the life of the Navigator?
When was the last time they were on the assembly line being built?

pugs
09-26-2009, 05:28 PM
Dont forget this walker:

http://www.tricountysports.com/lawncare/zt125.jpg

The walkers are definitely more of a niche. Standers though...they arent going anywhere. They are more productive than sit down machines, better visibility, more fit on a trailer....

zman2307
09-26-2009, 05:42 PM
Totally not the truth. Gotta love the lawn site rumors and soaps.

a rep specifically told me they were on the fence about axing the Navs, and that was last year. Distributor had stuff new in the crate from 2006! :hammerhead:

brucec32
09-26-2009, 08:16 PM
I thought that Scag (Cougar?) had some superior features. Those mulch baffles popped in really quick and easy, you only needed one deck vs 3 with most Walkers, and it looked quick and easy to take the power off the blower for mulching and discharge modes.

I hear a lot of good things about Scag riders, but the weight has always given me pause. Driving something that weighs 1460 lbs with an operator on it might make it hard to put on soft ground after rainfalls.

tallimeca
09-26-2009, 09:08 PM
The rumors here are real funny. Not only about Exmark but everyone. Guy came in the other day and said he read on lawn site that Exmark was out of business, haha.

Here's what I know.

a rep specifically told me they were on the fence about axing the Navs, and that was last year. Distributor had stuff new in the crate from 2006!

It was the Front Runner, not the Navigator and to my knowledge, the Front Runner is no longer on production line.

It's possible a distributor does have Navigators in their warehouse from 2006. These are niche machines that don't sell well in MOST PARTS of the country. Walkers's biggest sales area of the GHS models, is the mid atlantic, long island, and new england. Exmark will never compete head to head with Walker. They never planned to put Walker out of business. We know that isn't gonna happen and so do they.

What Exmark's goal has been is to be a one stop shop for their customers, so they can buy an Exmark Z, and Exmark Stand on, and Exmark dedicated bagger, an Exmark belt drive, an exmark 21 trim mower......

The silly posts on here are why most manufactures don't bother to post and bicker, and some have even withdrawn their sponsorship because of the lies and propoganda. This isn't the site's fault, but there definitely have been some manufacturer plants on here....

Dont forget this walker:http://www.tricountysports.com/lawncare/zt125.jpg


Those machines were pretty solid. We sold a pile of them. The company moving around and changing paint colors and no dealer support is what killed us on them. They sold for at the time about 2k cheaper then the walker and the cut was awesome and they bagged much better.

Look at these stripes with these mowers:

http://www.giustolandscaping.com/images/gm2_f.jpg

tallimeca, you are a Power Equip Dealer, what is Exmark telling you about the life of the Navigator?
When was the last time they were on the assembly line being built?

These have only been on the market 4 seasons now.....they didn't stop producing them 3 years ago!!! Hahahaha.

Navigator plans have not changed as far as I know. I have a sales meeting in 2 week where they will be showing 8 new mowers. Navigator has no major changes planned. What they have designed works. A couple small changes have been made in production. They changed the fill cap for the gas tank so you don't have to raise the bag a bit to fill it with gas. What I have in stock was built in late 08. About normal from manufacturer to distributor, to dealer level. Our last order of mower came in in the last spring. They put alot of money into building this machine, I'd be surprised to hear it's going away, but anything is possible. After all , Exmark is the brand, not Navigator. It's just a model and if didn't work out for Exmark, then it didn't. I can tell you, there's nothing wrong with the product's performance.

It's the .......let's create controversy posts that make things their not. Exmark didn't build the Navigator to put Walker out of business, they did it to give their customers an option, or a customer that's not happy with Walker, but likes the style of the machine....an option.

Toro and Exmark dont' have the Grand Stand and Vantage to put Wright out of business, again, they did it to give their customers options. Ya, they compete against each other, but we aren't talking the Rumble in the Jungle here...........

Here's a fact of manufacturing......someone builds something, people like it, and then someone comes along and tries to make it better. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. Take it for what it's worth but the "I heard from this guy, who said this guy said this, that his friend heard........" posts are nonsense. What's even worse is the people that believe them, haha.:laugh:

tallimeca
09-26-2009, 09:36 PM
given the economic situation, both last year and this year....commercial mower sales are down for everyone. I don't know of anyone who's sales are up. I don't see the point in a manufacturer pulling the plug on any model based on low sales......otherwise, they would all be closing their doors. Alot of product is off the production line.

Just read today that Briggs and Stratton closed 2 more plants. They aren't not making engines anymore, ........just supply and demand.

juspayme
09-26-2009, 09:48 PM
low sales, pulled plug on.....TRITON DECK!

tallimeca
09-27-2009, 01:24 AM
low sales had nothing to do with it. They don't sell the deck, they sell the mower that's running it.....and they sell plenty of them.

Exmark and the end users weren't happy with it.

There was good that came out of the Triton.....the Spindles, which is now combined with the Ultracut series 4 to give you the series 6 deck.

Tharrell
09-27-2009, 06:55 AM
Everyone needs to realize WHY sales are low right now. I hate to repeat a Clinton line but, "it's the economy stupid". Also, I understand what was said about servicing the customer. That stuff is pretty basic but sometimes the obvious stuff bites us before we see it. Tony

DixieFerris
09-27-2009, 10:26 AM
They are no longer making the Navigator or the Front Runner. This is not new news, we were told about this in June of this past summer. Both were poor in sales, Exmark got rid of both

pugs
09-27-2009, 03:07 PM
Those machines were pretty solid. We sold a pile of them. The company moving around and changing paint colors and no dealer support is what killed us on them. They sold for at the time about 2k cheaper then the walker and the cut was awesome and they bagged much better.

Look at these stripes with these mowers:

http://www.giustolandscaping.com/images/gm2_f.jpg


Yah, those type of mowers just arent popular around here really. Dont think I ever had anyone even call about a Bobcat ZT125. Seems like they stop making a model and bring it back later on once in a while...like the Diesel ZT200 model.

juspayme
09-27-2009, 03:12 PM
low sales had nothing to do with it. They don't sell the deck, they sell the mower that's running it.....and they sell plenty of them.

Exmark and the end users weren't happy with it.

There was good that came out of the Triton.....the Spindles, which is now combined with the Ultracut series 4 to give you the series 6 deck.

wrong. an lco looks at the deck. you sell the mower and the deck. talk to some exmark guys on here an educate yourself.

there was no good that came out of the Triton deck except headaches for the lco and dealers. the spindles on the 6 series deck now put 60 inch mowers over the 10000 dollar mark.

ill take the old mower design with the old mower price any day. around 7400 bucks. it did the job and was dependable.

and the new "6" series deck is leaving stringers too/

brucec32
09-29-2009, 01:05 AM
Actually those stripes in the pics have stripes within them.

Not a fan of the extreme striped look anyway. I realize that type of turf shows patterns more, but when it's so extreme it just looks unnatural and I think that if there have to be stripes, the more subtle the better.

I'm still wondering why they took the Lazer HP 44, 48, and 52 inch models and replaced them. I rarely heard a bad word about them.

balreadysaid
09-29-2009, 01:25 AM
i still like the new ultra cut 6 with the 34 motor it always cuts nice. it does clump in the wet but i just use different mowers for wet grass anyway!

LawnGuy73
09-29-2009, 09:03 AM
Like I said when the Grandstand came out. I'll stick with Wright.

tallimeca
09-29-2009, 05:36 PM
wrong. an lco looks at the deck. you sell the mower and the deck. talk to some exmark guys on here an educate yourself.

there was no good that came out of the Triton deck except headaches for the lco and dealers. the spindles on the 6 series deck now put 60 inch mowers over the 10000 dollar mark.

ill take the old mower design with the old mower price any day. around 7400 bucks. it did the job and was dependable.

and the new "6" series deck is leaving stringers too/

Reading and comprehension my friend. No one said an LCO wasn't looking at a deck style. I was saying that the low sales had nothing to do with the machine running a triton deck.........sales were low for ALL manufacturers......PERIOD.

Again, all the hoopla on lawn site must mean what ever is read on here is the truth. Despite popular belief, the Triton deck was not a complete flop and there were only problems in different areas of the country. Just that everyone pissed and moaned (deservingly so) on here.

Do you actually think the spindles are what raised the prices of the machines:confused: I certainly hope not.

CHRIS MELROSE
09-29-2009, 06:11 PM
The only way any brand will be able to compete with Walker and actually continue making product is to do the "Bad Boy" approach. Give it alot of curb appeal, give it some oddball features, cut corners not visible to the eye in order to sell it for far less.

There is a reason why Toro, Skag, Bobcat, Exmark(twice), has failed at their imitation Walkers. They were missing one part of the Bad Boy formula..Cut corners not visible to the eye and sell it for thousands less.....Judas Priest have you priced one of the Exmarks? Like $13k! You can find Walkers all day for $10k. You can't survive in this price conscience world pricing yourself like that.

juspayme
09-29-2009, 08:17 PM
My point is that every time a mower or a component is redesigned or engineered there are alot of individuals who work on that. Engineers, field testers, new production formats, research and development and so forth.

Thus, costs are raised. And ever lco on here knows when costs go up, price goes up.

So when exmark redesigns mowers and spindles and so forth we the lco pays for that cost and in return we get a unit that is no better than the one we had.

Sales were down this year because prices are way too high on mowers. You can get a car for a price of a lawn mower. Think about it. They have to crash test cars put air bags in them, windshields. You cant tell me a car is about the same production cost as a car.

It boils down to greed folks. Lawn mower executives want to get rich of our hard labor. Think about if all lcos were organized and none of us not one bought a mower next year. The next year those 10000 mowers would be 7.

Just a thought.

tallimeca
09-30-2009, 04:11 PM
Ok, so the guy with the reliable source can consider his source not that reliable anymore. Exmark did not discontinue the Navigator, it was the Front Runner, just like I said.

In fact, the Navigator will have no price increase for next year and they will be adding a feature/accessory that many of asked for. Guess what it is.....

My point is that every time a mower or a component is redesigned or engineered there are alot of individuals who work on that. Engineers, field testers, new production formats, research and development and so forth.

Thus, costs are raised. And ever lco on here knows when costs go up, price goes up.

So when exmark redesigns mowers and spindles and so forth we the lco pays for that cost and in return we get a unit that is no better than the one we had.

Sales were down this year because prices are way too high on mowers. You can get a car for a price of a lawn mower. Think about it. They have to crash test cars put air bags in them, windshields. You cant tell me a car is about the same production cost as a car.

It boils down to greed folks. Lawn mower executives want to get rich of our hard labor. Think about if all lcos were organized and none of us not one bought a mower next year. The next year those 10000 mowers would be 7.

Just a thought.


Guy, you are a trip. Do you send those "don't buy gas" emails around too? Hahaha. You have no idea what these engine and mower manufactueres have to go through to get equipment certified to be able to sell. Have you ever been to a factory to see their test facilities?? They have bump tracks, endurance tracks, tracks where pipes come up hydraulically to test blade impact. There are balance tests, blade tip speed tests, heat tests.......way more then you have any clue on.

Lawn mower executives want to get rich of our hard labor.

Some of these quotes are just down right dumb..... The fact that you really think that is a riot!!! Hahaha. But all the other manufacturers and politicians and such aren't trying to make money off of you. The big lawn mower conspiracy!!!!

You seem like your pretty knowlegable on one end......then you contradict yourself on the other end. There are far more cars produced then lawnmowers. The average house hold owns almost 2 cars. The average house hold owns .2 lawnmowers.

So I'll go with your theory that Exmark's sales were down because their prices were too high. So what was all the other manufacturers' excuses?

If it's because their prices were too high, then I guess no ones prices were high....compared to what???

It's also funny how you don't understand that manufacturers are out redesigning machines for their health. They are trying to present the best machine out their to their customers. If they kept building the same Z with the same decks....they would be making more money. However, guys like you would have nothing to complain about, so then you'd complain that brand x is doing this...... why isn't brand y. If brand y doesn't start doing it, we aren't going to buy any mowers.

What are you going to do, build your own mowers now too??:laugh:

Where is that Walker plant that said the Navigator was discontinued?

juspayme
09-30-2009, 06:15 PM
Well maybe I don't know fully what exmark does to redesign and test their product. But i do have a clue. I took plenty of marketing R& D development classes in college my man. Doesn't make me an expert but I have the fundamentals.

And all those redesign, testing, costs money. Who do you think pays for it? exmark?? No the lco does.

And while mowers are going up, we are geeting worse mowers. Trition deck, flop. How about the guys crying about bad pumps.

Its like redesigning a plastic ketchup bottle. It doesn't need to be redesgined.It works just fine.

Top executives in any corporation want to bring new products to get rich. The CEO of general motors was paid 27 million dollars in 2007 while the stock went from about 40 dollars a share to 2 bucks. YOu think he really cares? He is set. So what if they fire him. hes set. Its not a conspiracy its about greed buddy.

Exmark or toro's CEO is less concerned about the lco. He is more concerned about making a profit. If he was more concerned about the lco he would have taken all that redevelopment money testing costs, and all the things you talk about that cost tons of money and put it towards a cab with air conditioning instead of triton deck.

You want to TALK about mower sales going up? YOu imagine a/c lawnmowers.
If it was priced reasonable, you wouldnt be able to make them fast enough.

think about that.

tallimeca
09-30-2009, 09:33 PM
first, Landscapers are a fraction of sales for all vendors so despite your conspiracy theory, not everything revolves around the landscaper in the outdoor power equipment industry.

second, in any business, the end user pays for the product. The price of the product is determined but r&d, certifications, product development, marketing, warranty, distribution, and what ever else costs into putting the product in a users hands. So who pays for it....... Distribuitors pay a portion of it, the dealers pay a portion of it, and the end users pay a portion of it. End users include LCO's, but also homeowners, municipalities, cemeteries, no profits, and other government agencies that use the equipment. That's the big picture. You must have fell asleep for that part of class.

third, in reference to the ketchup bottle........ that was already covered. If they didn't make changes, you would be complaining about that too. That's what everyone for the most part on lawnsite does......complain. 99% of the posts on here are complaints. Complaints about parts prices, complaints about equipment prices, complaints about their competitors, complaints about being outbid, complaints about dealers, complaints about manufacturers, complaints about customers.............

Exmark or toro's CEO is less concerned about the lco. He is more concerned about making a profit. If he was more concerned about the lco he would have taken all that redevelopment money testing costs, and all the things you talk about that cost tons of money and put it towards a cab with air conditioning instead of triton deck.

Kicking a dead horse ..........but anyway. Do you know what the theory behind the Triton Deck was? The theory was to create a deck that cut as well as the Ultracut deck, but took less power from the engine to drive. Meaning you could run a 60 inch and get the performance off a 27 hp, that you would normally get off of a 30 hp, which meant less fuel consumption, and cheaper retail prices. And you know what, in 80% of the markets, it worked just fine. It was the other 20% that it didn't. Shame on Exmark for trying to keep the end user in mind with a design like that. Oh wait, I forgot, they don't care about the LCO. So now we are back to the ultracuts with 35hp motor.......but yet......hahaha.........YOU ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT PRICE!!!!! This is awesome.......hahahaha.

Yeah, they could build units with A/C's.... of course, exmark isn't in the compressor or other radiator components business, so they would buy them in from other vendors to build that part of the machine. Then if there was a problem, Exmark would be a total piece of crap because the a/c failed and they should have done this that and the other thing.

Gee, kinda a hydro issue...sound familiar. THEY DON'T BUILD THE HYDRO'S chief.... They buy them from the same vendors EVERY OTHER MANUFACTURER DOES...........so if there's an issue, blame parker ross, or hydro gear, they built those complonents. Same model numbers that are on everything else on the market...........

Oh, and I can tell you the CEO of Toro/Exmark is not making 27 million dollars. They aren't even available to the public.

You believe the outdoor power equipment industry has a conspiracy against you, and that's all there is to it. Yet, in all the classes you took, you failed to learn that in your business, you need to have the tools to work with, and you have to buy them, not necessarily from Exmark, but from someone. When you have a leader in the industry...Like Exmark, everyone is going to try and copy of it, make it better, and make it cheaper if they can. So you can thank them for helping the competition.........and that goes for all manufacturers out there. It's called competition.

You can ***** about the prices, and the machines, but in the next year or 2, you will see everyone copying the next gen lazer. Exmark is ahead of the game as usual. I've already seen some models up for production from other manufacturers........and I can tell you my statment is already proving true.

Frue
09-30-2009, 11:08 PM
first, Landscapers are a fraction of sales for all vendors so despite your conspiracy theory, not everything revolves around the landscaper in the outdoor power equipment industry.

second, in any business, the end user pays for the product. The price of the product is determined but r&d, certifications, product development, marketing, warranty, distribution, and what ever else costs into putting the product in a users hands. So who pays for it....... Distribuitors pay a portion of it, the dealers pay a portion of it, and the end users pay a portion of it. End users include LCO's, but also homeowners, municipalities, cemeteries, no profits, and other government agencies that use the equipment. That's the big picture. You must have fell asleep for that part of class.

third, in reference to the ketchup bottle........ that was already covered. If they didn't make changes, you would be complaining about that too. That's what everyone for the most part on lawnsite does......complain. 99% of the posts on here are complaints. Complaints about parts prices, complaints about equipment prices, complaints about their competitors, complaints about being outbid, complaints about dealers, complaints about manufacturers, complaints about customers.............



Kicking a dead horse ..........but anyway. Do you know what the theory behind the Triton Deck was? The theory was to create a deck that cut as well as the Ultracut deck, but took less power from the engine to drive. Meaning you could run a 60 inch and get the performance off a 27 hp, that you would normally get off of a 30 hp, which meant less fuel consumption, and cheaper retail prices. And you know what, in 80% of the markets, it worked just fine. It was the other 20% that it didn't. Shame on Exmark for trying to keep the end user in mind with a design like that. Oh wait, I forgot, they don't care about the LCO. So now we are back to the ultracuts with 35hp motor.......but yet......hahaha.........YOU ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT PRICE!!!!! This is awesome.......hahahaha.

Yeah, they could build units with A/C's.... of course, exmark isn't in the compressor or other radiator components business, so they would buy them in from other vendors to build that part of the machine. Then if there was a problem, Exmark would be a total piece of crap because the a/c failed and they should have done this that and the other thing.

Gee, kinda a hydro issue...sound familiar. THEY DON'T BUILD THE HYDRO'S chief.... They buy them from the same vendors EVERY OTHER MANUFACTURER DOES...........so if there's an issue, blame parker ross, or hydro gear, they built those complonents. Same model numbers that are on everything else on the market...........

Oh, and I can tell you the CEO of Toro/Exmark is not making 27 million dollars. They aren't even available to the public.

You believe the outdoor power equipment industry has a conspiracy against you, and that's all there is to it. Yet, in all the classes you took, you failed to learn that in your business, you need to have the tools to work with, and you have to buy them, not necessarily from Exmark, but from someone. When you have a leader in the industry...Like Exmark, everyone is going to try and copy of it, make it better, and make it cheaper if they can. So you can thank them for helping the competition.........and that goes for all manufacturers out there. It's called competition.

You can ***** about the prices, and the machines, but in the next year or 2, you will see everyone copying the next gen lazer. Exmark is ahead of the game as usual. I've already seen some models up for production from other manufacturers........and I can tell you my statment is already proving true.

I am sure you are prevy of certain information because you are a dealer. Having said that I am sure you know that the current exmark/ toro are not worth 10,400. The biggest reason these companys raised the prices, because they seen the influx of new lco. With all the new lcos they would buy these over priced units. The problem is the credit dried up a bit and ge and other companys were not willing to take chances on aspiring lcos who just got canned from there manufacturing job.

These new units are not ground breaking but just a pain in the rear. Think about a unit that will be down when a hour meter goes. Who is going to stock a 400 dollar hour meter. No one, so the unit will sit for 2 days not making any money because when the hour meter goes. This is nothing more than trying to make more money on parts........ Enough said! !0,400 for a exmark REDICULOUS. I can buy a cobalt for 12,000 and change. A whole car.

juspayme
10-01-2009, 12:00 AM
so what your saying tella, is that everyone is paying for exmarks screw ups. except the dealers like yourself. see if it cost you money, time, and headaches you would be singing a different tune.

But in your case as a dealer you like the screw ups, and the bad pumps, cause you, a dealer, get to get PAID TO FIX THEM! i didn't fall asleep in that part of my class. if i were a dealer like you i would be defending them too. exmark is a cash cow for you my man!

wake up, were not a bunch of dumb lco's on here. we are on to what you dealers do.

demhustler
10-01-2009, 02:27 AM
Ok, so the guy with the reliable source can consider his source not that reliable anymore. ...
...


well,ok, as guy sad - it just a rumor (speculation)
- but ...with such attitude - do you know any better? who is your "reliable" source? or you don't know?
: ))))
p.s. simple solution 4 you (and everybody) - lon't like it - don't read (just skip it) or don't believe everything you read... LOL

demhustler
10-01-2009, 02:45 AM
[QUOTE=tallimeca;3208783]...
p.p.s. oh, ... but they have "pipes come up hydraulically..."! - and how come people was unhappy with those decks after that?
... " they have bump tracks..." - you sure your "reliable source" doesn't told you "they have dump trucks"?

tallimeca
10-01-2009, 07:25 PM
Sir,
Do you need help on how to operate your keyboard?

But in your case as a dealer you like the screw ups, and the bad pumps, cause you, a dealer, get to get PAID TO FIX THEM! i didn't fall asleep in that part of my class. if i were a dealer like you i would be defending them too. exmark is a cash cow for you my man!

Warranty work is not profitable for dealers. You must have missed the 10k posts on here about how dealers suck because they won't cover anything under warranty.........haha.

so what your saying tella, is that everyone is paying for exmarks screw ups. except the dealers like yourself. see if it cost you money, time, and headaches you would be singing a different tune.

Go spend a couple months working in a dealership and see what the manufacturer's mistakes cost us.

Try putting a brand new part on someone's machine to only find out it's defective......or having the incorrect parts shipped, or parts labeled incorrectly, or transmit a parts order that never shows up so when you call, they don't have it, or special order a brand new mower for someone that comes in with freight damage. You, my man, are a turd. You think you know but you have no idea.

exmark is a cash cow for you my man!

Actually, Exmark is the least profitable line I sell front to back. I was making a ton more money when I sold Bunton and Bobcat. Our shop was much busier and parts sales were way up.

You want to talk about cash cow lines.....try Walker. You can count on them to break......constantly and there is virtually nothing to buy for them out of the aftermarket.

Want to try something else? Do you have an anti Exmark and anti dealer shelter built in your backyard in case they attack you?:laugh:

DLAWNS
10-02-2009, 12:39 AM
Sir,
Do you need help on how to operate your keyboard?



Warranty work is not profitable for dealers. You must have missed the 10k posts on here about how dealers suck because they won't cover anything under warranty.........haha.



Go spend a couple months working in a dealership and see what the manufacturer's mistakes cost us.

Try putting a brand new part on someone's machine to only find out it's defective......or having the incorrect parts shipped, or parts labeled incorrectly, or transmit a parts order that never shows up so when you call, they don't have it, or special order a brand new mower for someone that comes in with freight damage. You, my man, are a turd. You think you know but you have no idea.



Actually, Exmark is the least profitable line I sell front to back. I was making a ton more money when I sold Bunton and Bobcat. Our shop was much busier and parts sales were way up.

You want to talk about cash cow lines.....try Walker. You can count on them to break......constantly and there is virtually nothing to buy for them out of the aftermarket.

Want to try something else? Do you have an anti Exmark and anti dealer shelter built in your backyard in case they attack you?:laugh:

I've been watching this thread and there are so many misinformed people. Thank you Tallimeca for actually putting some thoughts behind your replies. :clapping::clapping:

juspayme
10-02-2009, 12:43 AM
dude you should run for congress. you are so good at side stepping questions.

so now what your saying is that exmark is sending you damaged mowers with different part numbers and mis labeled parts. this company must be falling apart.

you should have stuck with the bobcat line. they and bad boy increased their sales from last year contrary to your quote "sales being down across the board" i bet you did make a ton of money bobbing lcos over the head.

i must have fallen asleep i missed those 10000 posts how dealers dont cover anything. by the way that reminds me my coil was replaced in full by exmark brand new machine at 112 hours on it. after the dealer replace the carb and i told them it was a coil. thats how dealers do things, it gets them paid twice for one problem.

yea my bunker in my back yard is made up of old triton decks. once they see that the exmark guys would run far away from that!:dancing::clapping::waving::cool2::laugh::weightlifter:

WhitehallTurf
10-02-2009, 09:03 AM
First off the Exmark Navigator is still in the lineup for 2010 with some improvements, they added a hyd dump option and also removable tubs for the grass. The had to modify the frame of the unit to add the dump option so it will not retrofit to the older models.

tallimeca
10-03-2009, 07:54 PM
dude you should run for congress. you are so good at side stepping questions.

so now what your saying is that exmark is sending you damaged mowers with different part numbers and mis labeled parts. this company must be falling apart.

you should have stuck with the bobcat line. they and bad boy increased their sales from last year contrary to your quote "sales being down across the board" i bet you did make a ton of money bobbing lcos over the head.

i must have fallen asleep i missed those 10000 posts how dealers dont cover anything. by the way that reminds me my coil was replaced in full by exmark brand new machine at 112 hours on it. after the dealer replace the carb and i told them it was a coil. thats how dealers do things, it gets them paid twice for one problem.

yea my bunker in my back yard is made up of old triton decks. once they see that the exmark guys would run far away from that

I'm not side stepping anything. Please reply with EXACTLY what answer you are looking for and I will give it to you. If you research posts from me, I"m not on here b-s ing anyone. I feel i've helped alot of guys out with problems, especially with situations they thought they might be getting screwed by a dealer. There are a bunch of guys that can vouch for that. I've been in contact with guys through PM's to help them out. So, you have me all wrong dude.

Your bunker reply was actually pretty funny, I must admit, I laughed out loud:laugh:

You are putting words in my mouth, I'm not saying EXMARK is sending me wrong parts and broken machine, Exmark is only one of the many lines I deal with. Most of them are a 2 step distribution process. It's the distributors that send us equipment and parts, not Exmark, or Echo yada yada yada. The damage to equipment is done by the freight carriers, however, the dealers have to deal with it when it arrives, or refuse shipment, which I have also done. Again, I'm starting to think you are skitzo.......

And....Once again, proving you have no idea what you are talking about.....

Exmark didn't replaced a carburetor or coil, those are ENGINE COMPONENTS....not EXMARK COMPONENTS. COMPLETE DIFFERENT WARRANTY then exmark. So it was either Briggs, Kohler, or Kawasaki that covered those components, not Exmark.

Secondly, your dealer didn't get paid twice, I can assure you that. Dealers have to return the defective parts to the manufacturer to be inspected. If they replaced a carb and nothing was wrong with it, they will ship the carb back to the dealer and not pay the warranty. That might be how YOUR DEALER "does things".....so it's no wonder they are trying to get you where ever they can to make up for the mistakes in misdiagnosing failures and not getting paid for warranty work because they screwed up.

I don't know how you can misdiagnose a bad carb.....with a faulty ignition module:confused:

So I'll be waiting on your DIRECT QUESTION, so you can get a DIRECT ANSWER.

tallimeca
10-03-2009, 08:01 PM
I've been watching this thread and there are so many misinformed people. Thank you Tallimeca for actually putting some thoughts behind your replies.

Thank you for the kind words. So many misinformed people is an understatement.

Some of the things I read on here are sad.......to say the least. So many know-it-alls with nothing but rumors, opinions and personal theories to back their posts up. Then when you give them factual information, they resort to childish responses and personal attacks. But then again, I guess it's not much different from any other message boards.

Everybody has their reliable sources:laugh:

MileHigh
10-03-2009, 09:13 PM
LOL.

I love my exmarks.

And I will be buying one of these after a couple years....maybe sooner.

juspayme
10-03-2009, 10:05 PM
Thank you for the kind words. So many misinformed people is an understatement.

Some of the things I read on here are sad.......to say the least. So many know-it-alls with nothing but rumors, opinions and personal theories to back their posts up. Then when you give them factual information, they resort to childish responses and personal attacks. But then again, I guess it's not much different from any other message boards.

Everybody has their reliable sources:laugh:

I think you need to re read the post bro. YOU were the one who started the personal attacks by saying i didn't have a clue, calling me a turd and then saying i feel asleep in my college classes. FACTUAL INFORMATION.

you side steppers always side step.

You also said that "sales of all manufactures were down across the board PERIOD." your factual information must have not included bad boy and bobcat zero turn cause they both up from last year. FACTUAL INFORMATION.

and MY ORIGINAL POINT is if you don't think that the triton deck didn't't contribute to lost sales then you don't have a clue. i know at least 4 people who went to different manufactures and one guy took his triton deck back after 3 weeks and traded it in on a Ferris. THAT DECK DID NOT CUT WELL IN THE NORTHEAST.FACTUAL INFORMATION.
re read the thread dude.

mowerdude777
10-03-2009, 10:15 PM
LOL.

I love my exmarks.

And I will be buying one of these after a couple years....maybe sooner.

I will as well I am getting an eleven acre park most likely in a few years so will need something better then a wb

brucec32
11-29-2009, 04:34 PM
Back on topic,


Does anyone know about these "optional antiscalp wheels" mentioned in the Exmark videos about this machine? The Grandstand didn't have them and that was a problem for me.

Any idea where they'd be placed and how they'd be attached? Mostly I would need something on the front trim edge to prevent uneven cutting when mowing undulating turf really low. I'm wondering if the weight of the engine/deck would cause it to just gouge the turf anyway.

Nes-Tech
11-29-2009, 09:41 PM
Popcorn anyone??

slamjamrockinman
11-30-2009, 01:22 AM
Wow this thread is heated!

Juspayme,
if your so fed-up with dealers and new machine prices, why not AVOID them. Have you discovered the world of used machines and online parts? I believe the lawnsite user PROCUT1 discusses this topic in one of his threads. VERY good advice, i'll see if I can dig it up and post a link. I occasionally go to dealers if I really have to. There are a few that are very informed about the product they sell, some that are not.

Tallimeca,
My hat is off to you, you seem very educated about the product you sell. I wish you were in my area. However, most of the dealers I deal with are not as educated about the product they are selling, VERY frustrating.

ADVANCEDOHIO
11-30-2009, 11:47 AM
I will take the popcorn.... And another ExMark!!!

PORTER 05
09-12-2010, 08:41 PM
how do guys like these machines anyone out there have any comments on them , i will be buying one with-in the next 6 months so id like to hear from guys that have run them thanks.

turf&tree
11-13-2010, 02:58 PM
I just took one for a demo today. AWSOME MACHINE!!!!!!!! the dealer I got it from had the mulching setup on it and it was spectacular. I had an account with a heavy layer of leaves on it and when I was done you could not tell it ever had a leaf on it! the mulching was incredible. I was even cutting the grass way down at the same time.
I agree with everything Tallimeca says. I have had experience in a dealership. and have taken factory training from different manufacturers.