PDA

View Full Version : LED lamps


Pro-Scapes
09-17-2009, 10:05 AM
Ok lets get a thread going with showing different LED lamps since many come from the same factories and are sold under different names. I want to start a photo compiliation of whats out there because as of now i need to install about 100 fixtures but will be very limited on avalible power without cutting up a 100 yr old driveway.

I lost my phone yesterday so I am unable to post the pics i had of some of the lamina and ushio lamps that I have but I am really interested in seeing pictures and your thoughts on MR16 lamps. I should have about 6 to post in the next day or so but lets get em rolling.

JoeyD
09-17-2009, 03:34 PM
This site has a few....


http://www.superbrightleds.com/bi-pin.html

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
09-17-2009, 11:11 PM
The ushio are not bad but do have heat issues.
The lamina do not fit into standard MR16 fixtures and have massive heat issues when enclosed.

The INTEGRA LED MR16 is currently available in both spot and flood configurations, is 3000K, 230 Lumens, L70=40,000 hours and is running at an incredibly cool 31 celsius in enclosed fixtures. It is also at a price point that none of the others can come close to.

Full photometrics and specifications are available. You know who to contact for this.

sprinkler guy
09-18-2009, 01:31 AM
James,

Where can I go to get pricing info, as well as beam spreads available? I'm proposing a retrofit of a large property that would be a cinch with LED bulbs. My challenge has been the number of G4 base bi-pins that exist. I know you've posted this contact info before, but could you do it again, or PM the info.

Pro-Scapes
09-18-2009, 11:20 AM
The ushio are not bad but do have heat issues.
The lamina do not fit into standard MR16 fixtures and have massive heat issues when enclosed.

The INTEGRA LED MR16 is currently available in both spot and flood configurations, is 3000K, 230 Lumens, L70=40,000 hours and is running at an incredibly cool 31 celsius in enclosed fixtures. It is also at a price point that none of the others can come close to.

Full photometrics and specifications are available. You know who to contact for this.


James email me pics of the lamp and pricing issues. The ushios I am having to use in interior applications because i need the dimability. Keep in mind it was well over a year from when we saw the ushios at lightfair to when they were actually avalible. I do not use a standard size mr16 uplight so fit has not been an issue with the lamina in the 2 bullets I use.

Lets see some pics of your Integra led james.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
09-18-2009, 05:04 PM
I wish I could post at will here on this topic guys but the Moderators have been very very stringent with me. I cannot promote or give many details without being censored.

Please send me any questions or inquiries directly to me at my email address: info@integralighting.com

Thanks

jshimmin
09-18-2009, 06:40 PM
I tested several today from redbirdled (you can find the site). If interested in the results shoot me a PM and I'll send back what I saw. Overall not any thing better than what I use already.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
09-18-2009, 07:42 PM
Interesting how none of the products that Red Bird are re-selling have any technical specifications available. No photometrics either. With so many different models just in the MR16 category, I can assure you they are simply re-selling whatever they can procure quickly and inexpensively. Go shopping on www.alibaba.com and you will find a myraid of similar and identical lamps, all with the same exaggerated claims! 50w equivalent? Ya sure! LOL.

The only lamp I saw on that site that is sure to perform is the CRS product... a fantastic lamp for sure, but look at the price! CRS has it stuff down pat, but being made in Canada is a huge competitive crutch for them. Hate to say it but true.

Pro-Scapes
09-20-2009, 10:23 PM
Thoughts on these ? anyone used them ?

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
09-21-2009, 10:51 PM
Billy, some more details would be good!

As most of you have realized by now there is a LOT of LED lamps being produced by "no-name" factories in SE Asia. They genereally all employ one of a handful of enclosures and use basically the same drivers and lenses. To look at them in a photo you would not be able to distinguish one from another.

A quick look on www.alibaba.com will illustrate my point.

What you really need to see in order to begin to evaluate these lamps are the full technical specifications and photometrics. Amazingly enough, most LED lamps on the market have not been fully tested. Even more surprising is the number of online LED lamp re-sellers who post limited to no technical info regarding the lamps they are selling. Perhaps they don't understand what is all means?

When evaluating any new LED lamp I always ask for the full specifications and start there. If they cannot be provided, then move along as I will bet that the lamp will have some significant deficiancies. Ask me for the technical specifications of my lamps and you will get it all, including a full spectrum analysis, heat analysis and photometrics.

Billy, the lamps in your photo, are they using the single 5W Cree chip? I have yet to see one of those that operates at +200 Lumens and maintains an acceptable coupling temperature. Again, specifications would be good to start with.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
09-21-2009, 11:01 PM
A word to the wise:

As more and more 120V LED lamps are introduced to the market you want to watch out for the appropriate listings on these. Like any other 120V electrical device, these new LED 'replacement' lamps should be fully UL / ULc / ETL / cETL / CSA approved. They do contain electronic circuits and they do fit into standard electrical lamp sockets and as such they must be approved for use.

There are a handful of "Big Name" manufacturers slowly entering into this market and the thing that is holding them up (most currently have product available in Europe and Asia) are the approvals for use here in N. America.

Most of the "no name" 120V LED replacement lamps carry no approvals for use here. CE and ROHS are not acceptable standards.

In my investigations into this I don't see many 12V lamps requiring or holding electrical listings and I am not sure why. Even GE MR16 Lamps apparently have no approvals stamped on the lamp or the packaging. Same with Ushio and THHC lamps. None the less, I am moving forward with having my line of LED MR16s ULc approved, just to be on the safe side.

Does anyone out there have more info on electrical listings for low voltage lamps?

Thanks.

emby
09-26-2009, 02:16 PM
Sorry to get a bit off topic here,,,but I have been researching a lot of the MR16 LED lamps and almost all the large manufacturers state that here is what we have currently but in six months the technology and bulbs will change.
My concern with all of them are light output and longevity of that light output.
Some of the ones I have tried here at the house run very warm inside a coppermoon CM-125 and a couple of them have noticeably lost thier light output from the start of operation.
One other thing to note..At the beginning of this search for me I noticed a lot of the companies refer to light output as lumens, candlepower, etc. so it has been a learning curve for me as to what all the different descriptions are for each bulb. The best definition I could come up with is below:

Candlepower is a rating of light output at the source, using English measurements.
Foot-candles are a measurement of light at an illuminated object.
Lumens are a metric equivalent to foot-candles in that they are measured at an object you want to illuminate.
Divide the number of lumens you have produced, or are capable of producing, by 12.57 and you get the candlepower equivalent of that light source

Personally I want the LED replacement bulbs to be perfect with colour and light output equivalent to the MR16 halogens. The bonus will be the amount of running hours on the LED and not to mention the costs associated with our installations. In my opinion in order to start using the LED light I feel that you would require two LED bulbs and fixtures for every one Halogen fitted fixture in my design. I can see the advantage in this as all of you can but my concern is the colour and the life due to overheating in our pro grade fixtures.
As I continue testing these I will keep everybody informed of the results. Currently I am testing Ushio's Synergy LED MR16 50 degree bulb in a CM-125 and a Cast Tree light (very tight in the fixture by the way).
Just my 2 cents.

Ken

lilmarvin4064
10-02-2009, 05:00 PM
Thoughts on these ? anyone used them ?

looks like one of these housings. Is it the single or triple emitter?

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15085
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15084

I put a rebel endor star in the latter :)

sprinkler guy
10-03-2009, 02:03 AM
[QUOTE=lilmarvin4064;3211623]looks like one of these housings. Is it the single or triple emitter?

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15085
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15084
QUOTE]

Those are 120 volt bulbs.

The housing looks similar to a Phillips bulb I saw.

steveparrott
10-06-2009, 12:04 AM
Candlepower is a rating of light output at the source, using English measurements.
Foot-candles are a measurement of light at an illuminated object.
Lumens are a metric equivalent to foot-candles in that they are measured at an object you want to illuminate.
Divide the number of lumens you have produced, or are capable of producing, by 12.57 and you get the candlepower equivalent of that light source

Just to clarify some of these photometric terms, 'candlepower' is an outdated term and has been largely replaced by luminance measurements using the unit of candela. A candela is a measurement of luminous intensity emitted from a light source in a given direction.

Footcandles are a measurement of illuminance, or light intensity received over a given area. More specifically, lumens per square foot. The metric equivalent of footcandles is Lux, or lumens per square meter.

The equation you quote, lumens/12.57 = candlepower is very puzzling.

JoeyD
10-06-2009, 03:24 PM
Learned some interesting news on LED today durign a meeting.........wish I could spill the beans........Saw some really cool technology!!

One thing I don't see mentioned in this thread or hear much in conversation, but is something we have been discussing, is how the heat of these LED's is affecting the phosphate (spelling?) coating that produces the warmer color temps in th ecurrent LED's. So not only do we have the fear of the lumen's depreciating but we also have the fear of the actual color temperature changing as well.

We have also learned that that electronics in most all of the LED's tested are very poor and not very effecient at all. LED is prgressing quickly and we are staying a head of the curve.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-06-2009, 05:24 PM
Joey and All.

I have been discussing junction point heat issues for ever! When all others made the claims that the heat issues surrounding LEDs had to do with circuitry, it was I who attempted to correct this misnomer and educate that the heat issues have more to do with phosphor degradation than anything else.

Most HB LED chips are rated to operate at junction temperatures of about 65 Deg. Celsius or so. Through some adaptations to driver technology I have come up with an LED MR16 lamp that operates at only 33 Deg Celsius! This is the coolest running LED MR16 lamp on the market and I am certain that at these low temperatures we will not have any issues with heat degrading the LED chip phosphors.

As far driver efficiency goes... these lamps have a PF (power factor) in the low 80's. (100 is perfect) Not many LED lamps will release their PF numbers!

BTW, Warm white LEDs use phosphors not phosphates! LOL Phosphates are in your dish and laundry detergent to boost cleaning power (surfactants).

Regards

JoeyD
10-06-2009, 05:32 PM
LOL...Tomato Tomato....LOL.....Thanks james! Cant wait to see your LED's in action!!!

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-06-2009, 05:37 PM
I should also note. That any decent LED MR16 lamp should employ a separated driver from the heat sink/LED board and that the driver circuitry should be rated to 105 Deg. Celsius.

Our lamps use a unique heat sink, that is backed by a solid billet of aluminum to which the LED board is thermally bound. Then the driver is fully encapsulated (potted) in epoxy and rests in its own cavity within the lamp base.

Break open some of the others and look at what they are doing... not good!