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View Full Version : Last date to over(slit) seed in Upper Midwest


DA Quality Lawn & YS
09-18-2009, 12:03 AM
Guys,

What should I use as a rule of thumb for the last day I can effectively overseed here in the Upper Midwest and have a good stand of grass come through and make it through light frost. We are talking seeding into existing lawns here.

Our first frost avg date is like Oct 10-12.


Thanks,
DA

ICT Bill
09-18-2009, 12:48 AM
I do believe that you answered your own question

There are many at your latitude that have a program of dormant seeding. Apply seed when the ground is partially frozen and the freeze thaw opens the ground to accept the seed. when the soil warms in the spring the seed is an inch in the ground

BINGO, nice lawn for the season

Marcos
09-18-2009, 01:55 AM
Absolutely horrible renovation season here in S. Ohio this year.
Hardly any lawns have seen damage beyond repair.
What a bummer! :cry:

Stillwater
09-18-2009, 09:34 AM
Get started today, but just like ICTBill said, don't worry about freeze thaw, the seed will over winter just fine....

Marcos
09-18-2009, 11:34 AM
Get started today, but just like ICTBill said, don't worry about freeze thaw, the seed will over winter just fine....

Dormant seeding holds risks, too.
There's always a strong chance that spring won't abruptly......'POP'....from cold weather to warm, of course.
1 spring out of 3 might drag on & on with cool, rainy weather for weeks on end, depending upon where you are in the country.
There's always that risk a % of the seed will rot and / or wash away if not enough attention was paid to potential erosion.

I've seen perfectly executed & timed dormant seeding projects fail completely, and maybe the next year see a fly-by-night, blow-it-out-the-tailgate cob-job look like something out of Ty Pennington's front yard scrapbook.

There's always a throw of the dice in seeding, especially when there's no one around to manage it.

Stillwater
09-18-2009, 03:04 PM
*trucewhiteflag*Dormant seeding holds risks, too.
There's always a strong chance that spring won't abruptly......'POP'....from cold weather to warm, of course.
1 spring out of 3 might drag on & on with cool, rainy weather for weeks on end, depending upon where you are in the country.
There's always that risk a % of the seed will rot and / or wash away if not enough attention was paid to potential erosion.

I've seen perfectly executed & timed dormant seeding projects fail completely, and maybe the next year see a fly-by-night, blow-it-out-the-tailgate cob-job look like something out of Ty Pennington's front yard scrapbook.

There's always a throw of the dice in seeding, especially when there's no one around to manage it.


Yep this is true aswell.....

White Gardens
09-19-2009, 06:08 PM
Dormant seeding holds risks, too.
There's always a strong chance that spring won't abruptly......'POP'....from cold weather to warm, of course.
1 spring out of 3 might drag on & on with cool, rainy weather for weeks on end, depending upon where you are in the country.
There's always that risk a % of the seed will rot and / or wash away if not enough attention was paid to potential erosion.

I've seen perfectly executed & timed dormant seeding projects fail completely, and maybe the next year see a fly-by-night, blow-it-out-the-tailgate cob-job look like something out of Ty Pennington's front yard scrapbook.

There's always a throw of the dice in seeding, especially when there's no one around to manage it.

True, very true.

You could also say that about seeding any time of year. Fall seedings look like they'll be horrible around here. No rain to speak of during the perfect weather temps we're having. Now is our time to get something established before the frost comes our way.

americanlawn
09-19-2009, 07:42 PM
1) Regarding seeding with Kentucky bluegrass, best time is mid August thru mid Sept, so you're approaching the end of fall seeding. 2) If you miss this window, then you may want to "dormant seed" (late November or just before the ground freezes), but you should delay preemergent applications until mid May.

We have done both methods - usually with good results. But in all honesty, I have seeded crappy parts of my lawn in July, August, September, October, November, and December. I never watered. I just let Nature take it's course. But I'm lazy. Good luck, and often, seeding is more "luck" than science. :laugh:

RigglePLC
09-19-2009, 09:10 PM
Another company did one of my customers lawns in a tear out and redo situation. Weather delays forced him to sow seed about Oct 19. It promptly got cold. The ryegrass portion was up about an inch tall in a few places warmed by the sun by Thanksgiving. Added fertilizer. Second week of December he had grass, but it still looked horrible. Essentially grass does not grow below 45 degrees. It stands still. In spring we skipped pre emergent, more fertilizer. Long wait--by June it was looking fine. And we added fertilizer and weed control. The seeding company's repeated visits made it a money-loseing proposition, I am sure.

Smallaxe
09-20-2009, 08:26 AM
Soil temps in the fall, is the reason fall seeding is better than spring seeding.

Cooler air temps, more chance of rain, less direct sunlight are reasons that spring and fall are better than summer.

A frost has no effect, to speak of, on young cool season grass plants. They just need the roots to mature enough b4 the ground freezes, for the winter.

Marcos
09-21-2009, 11:41 AM
If you're planning to try to get a grow-in late like this you may want to spray or spread the prepped soil bed with a cocktail of beneficial endo-mycorrhizae spores.
These spores once established at the very tips of the roots sort of act as an interface or a buffer between roots & the soil around it, allowing for better nutrient pickup at all levels, which of course means quicker establishment time.
A key factor to the initial success of mycorrhizae establishment is making sure it has plenty of food in the form of protein. That's why many folks like myself will incorporate feed grains like corn meal or soybean meal into the seed bed just before spraying / spreading the spores. Others may utilize compost mixes.
Afterward, an organic program of some sort is most desirable & beneficial but not 100% necessary SO LONG AS care is taken to not overuse & overapply fertilizer & pesticides and to use IPM measures for pesticides whenever possible.

You can order mycorr from any # of sites on the 'net including my source & personal favorite, Fungi Perfecti out of Washington State.
They REALLY work!
Order a small sample and do a trial grow-in side-by-side with another small untreated area. Within 2 to 3 weeks I think you'll see EXACTLY what I mean...

ch-ch-ch-chia! :)