Help me convince the Board(My folks)

[MacLawnCo]

Guys,
This is a tuffy. I am wanting to get a new 60" DC, and have the funding available, but my parents (who have too much say in my business) are not receptive to me spending any of my money. I currently mow 4 days a week for about 6 hours each with a 48" exmark walkbehind. I have doubled the number of accounts I have since last year and do not want to spend as much time mowing, so I figure, I can invest some money in the business and save me some time. Their argument against me getting a new mower is that I got the exmark last year and nead to save for college.
Please through out some ideas on why I do need the new mower so I can construct an argument against the Board.

I hate having to beg for stuff I need.
Thanks

Jason

[kerr lawn]

dude i hear you compeletly
up until this year i had bought a new mower every year for the last four. every year it was a fight to get it.
You got to explain to them how it is, because they are not out there with you mowing so they don't understand.
bryan

[FrankenScagMachines]

How old are you? I'm 15 and have a hard time convincing my parents of stuff too but I know sometimes (more often than not :() they are right. I don't know alot about your situation, like how many lawns, weekly income, or monthly, etc, but do take into consideration you're going to want a truck and trailer of your own later on and college too. I understand that with a 60" DC you will greatly increase profits as long as you can get it in and out of the yards and be able to use it's size and speed. This way you can get more lawns and that's great, more income, right? Then you can sooner save for a truck and trailer and college, wife and kids, etc etc. whatever, BUT - you will also have to pay for this equipment, and a new 48" Exmark WB is alot better than I've got, but you probably do more cutting than me. All I'm saying is you have to keep costs proportional to income/profit. Like maybe settle for trading up the WB if you won't need it, like on a used ZTR? Or just get a sulky for this one, or something. Don't aim quite as high as a high dollar ZTR, get a used one maybe and keep the WB?? Just something to think about. I assume if you can get a new walk behind one year and a new DC another year, you are doing pretty good money wise, but you gotta save some too.
Later
Eric

[Runner]

I think Eric has some solemn advice here. You really have to justify the need for the means. If you have 4 days that you are cutting, at about 6 hours a day, then I guarantee you, that you will only have 1 1/2 - 6 hour days, or about 9 hours cutting time with a DC. THAT is not enough to pay for a machine like this. I know, you can line more work up, and have the capacity to take on more with a Z, but by the sounds of it, you have PLENTY of capacity to fill up this walkbehind's dance ticket. You still have 16 more hours to fill to make a 40 hour week. That wb can mow aLOT of grass in 16 hours. If it's a work or fatigue issue for you, then look into a stand up sulky, if you don't already have one. I cut for many years with a 52" wb before I got a second of the same machine. You have a great machine there, keep that baby running! That thing will cut grass all day, everyday for you. That's what it was made for.

[AK Lawn]

Coming from an older person(one year) save your money for college and/or a truck, i the long run you will be happier, i currently maintain 100+ lawns and have still not justified to myself the need for a ZTR, i run two full-time crews and run 48" with sulkys, sav e,save,save,save, i am paying 27,000 for school a year and that adds up, so get you client basis first, meaning you should be putting in 6 8hour days a week then your parents see your devotion and will cave but not until that point should you make that sort of commitment, are you solo i assume that you are, but hit that 6 day a week point get the DC and then cut it back to 4 day, but not from 4 to 2 you will be working hard for nothing, but a payment, and if you already have the money invest it, that is what i do with all excess cash, take it back in 2 years and you will have almost doubled it and then get the DC and keep the 48" as your back up, not trying to put your idea down just made the mistake of upgrading to soon and paying the price not working as much and am still working to pay back debt, but i was in excess and bought more than just an extra mower

AK Lawn

Get what you need not what you want!

[Turf Technologies]

I dont know what size lawns you do, but but how much time can you really save as is?An extra pass here and there?Too if you do some smaller lawns like I have, those big machines in no time will make your lawnslook like scrub work,grooves, ruts etc etc, My brother has a new Viper ive seen the outcome on the small lawns and it doesnt look good.Nowfor his big lawns np he can change directions just fine. Might want to consider this.

I use a WB with a velkie single wheel and i have no problems takingcare of 80 accounts 10 of those are weekly the rest are 10days.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

You are going the wrong way.

You don't need another mower, you need to raise the prices on the lawns you have.

[MikeLT1Z28]

you need to stop and ask yourself a few things first.

do you really need a 60" ZTR? what are you going to be studying for in school? will you be getting out of the profession once school starts and then after you graduate. they do hold their value, but that is money that MIGHT be better spent elsewhere. if you are getting by just fine right now and don't plan on taking on any massive properties, i'd stick with what ya got.

(by the way, i'm 29, should have stayed in school (yes i love what i do, but i could have avoided a few bad career choices if i'd stayed in) then but i didn't. i cut FULL time with my 36" metro. will be adding more to my fleet by the end of the year.)

[Toroguy]

The "Board" is your greatest ally. You do not need the Chopper. What are the plans for the walk-behind after a Chopper purchase? Collect dust? Back up?

By using the walk behind for a year or two more, you have taken your Boards advice. In two years you will have the loan option from the parents.

Tuff it out, your parents will be there for you forever, the lawn mower may or may not.

You are in a nice scenario most would envy, don't forget that.

[LawnLad]

Save your money today - make your equipment stretch until you can truly cost justify it. Sure you could save time by having a ZTR, but your time today is not as valuable as the dollars in the bank. You can always buy something in the future - but once you spend the money, that's a sunk cost. Whether that investment, or sunk cost, makes you money is up to you. But I'd say you should take the "board's" advice and wait.

When I was in high school and mowing 30 properties a week - I thought I was making a killing. I plowed all my money back into the business to grow it as quickly as I could. Only problem as it that as I grew the business early on, taking on as much business as I could, I wasn't watching my cash flow or maintaining sufficient working capital in the bank. As my receivables stretched, and my bank account was thin, I wondered where all my money was - even though I was doing two or three times the volume. Learn your business, save your money, and grow at a comfortable rate. Just try to avoid what I did by buying too much equipment too early in your career. It's take a lot of years to battle back and build your working capital.

[kerr lawn]

i posted earlier on this subject and was all for him getting the dc, but after reading some of your post i have rethought this.
I guess i said what i said because he sounded like he was in my position a few years ago. My name was/is spreading like wildfire and i had the chance to bid on my hoa to mow gas line/ common ground it takes 8-9 man hours. I got it last year for the first time and now this is my second year and my dad said if you get this contract you can get a ztr. i said ok. If i hadn't gotten it i wouldn't of wanted a ztr. To big and i couldn't make me the money back as easily. If your thinking you gonna want to continue this business look at get like a 32"/36" for gates to save you t and m rather than push mowing them if you have a lot of gates. If you don't a have commericial trimmer and blower, look into getting them also because at 2-3 hours a week of blowing and trimming them things will last forever.
As lawnlad said save your money and don't get to far in the whole. My mom is a real estate agent and she is always asking ppl/ telling ppl that yes they can have this big house on land or they could go with something more reasonable for the time and still be able to go on vacation, eat out, and have the extras. think hard and long if you want all your money to go this ztr or would you rather save some of it so when a date comes up you can front the money for the girl. If you are going into college soon, think about spending money, food, and beer. If you go into college for 4 years when you get out that ztr will be out-dated. So then what would you do with it, sell it before you go in, but then what is the point of having it in the first place.
I'm comfortable where i sit, i have the equiment to get my jobs done week in and week out, but with that i will be spending some serious time working this year to gain captial and an emergency fund for the business.

When i look back into my younger years, i think how did my parents know so much even before it all happen. they wouldn't be like that if they didn't love you.

mow more grass
bryan

I don't think anyone of us is saying don't grow and have goals to grow, but think about what you want to go in your life tomorrow, next month, next year, and years to come.

[Loosestrife]

Make what you can with what you have during the summers. After College, you can decide if you want to be in this bueiness, and do things the correct way.

[MacLawnCo]

Thanks guys.

With your guys' help and my parents stubourness, I have decied to wait for a while.

Let me explain my thoughts that sparked this idea though. I will be moving into Miami Universtiy Aug. 16, and dont know what I am going to do with my contracts, seeing as they will take me 24 hrs a week plus drive time. I am going to be taking a very full course load, and do not anticipate much more than 15 hrs/wk to work. I was hoping to hire on a guy to help and have him and I both mowing and whatnot to cut my time hopefully in thirds. I may still invest in another exmark before I leave though. Maybe this explanation will help.

Thanks agian. I love when I get unbiased third party advice. You guys rule!!

Jason

[MacLawnCo]

sorry, did not proof, make that an exmark wb. sory

Jason

[FrankenScagMachines]

Jason,
I ain't trying to be a jerk, but if you're 18 (or 19 I assume) and have your own business, why are your parents still telling you what you can and can't do? I mean, my parents will do that when i'm that old I know already since my older brother is right there now, but I didn't think most parents were that way? You don't even need to reply to this, I guess I kinda stereotyped you sorry for that.
Eric

[awm]

hate to disagree with the majority .
but i think u need a smaller less expensive z.u trying to start at the top of the cost ladder and wont have much to look forward to later.. id go 52 w a good reliable lazer, standard hustler or mabe bob cat.u might get lucky w a used one like i did.

[longviewlawncare]

I am 19 and my parenst play a big roll in my buisness. COnsidering they own stock in my company and fronted me the money to start. I think you should wait before you buy something that big and expensive. i started out with a Scag 48" belt drive that i still use everyday. The only reason i added a ZTR was b/c i am using 2 helpers now and can be mowing 2 yards at once. Also my dad wanted one anyway.

[LawnLad]

Jason - granted I don't know your situation, but have fun at Miami. I never graduated from there, but after two years in Oxford, it was the best time of my life. I had a landscape company in highschool - tried to keep it going while I was in school. Employees did a so so job, family filled in for me on the phones and collecting paperwork from the guys. All in all - I spent more time worrying from 5 hrs away than I should have. The business was fine when I got home and started it right back up. Granted you're only 1.5 to 2.0 hrs ish, but still, my advice is get to know the guys in your corridor/hall - hang out with them and socialize. That's what life is about. If you're always at home working - you won't have the chance to make the spur of the moment road trips from which legends and tales are born. If you need the money - that's a different story and you can't knock it. Oxford is a fun town - enjoy. Just don't have as much fun as I did... it brought me home two years earlier than I would have liked!

[tgrebis]

Jason,

I was just wondering what you are studing. It may make a big difference. I got a degree in business, didn't like my job, started a lawn business while I went back to school for engineering. Going to school for engineering and running my own business together didn't work. There are way to many hours needed to run the business. Cooridinating employees, bidding jobs, advertising, emergencies, rain, fixing and maintaining mowers. I am not saying you can't do it. I believe I could do it if I was studing business but the engineering program was just too intense. 15-18 credit hours a term plus about 7 to 12 lab hours, group projects, presentations outside of class hours, common exams 3 days a week at 8 in the morning. Oh yeah and not to mention the amount of studing you must do to pass engineering courses.

Just food for thought. Be prepared to find help if you need it.

[AK Lawn]

Yes you can do all of this iam living proof and am doing it as we speak but it is not fun at all. Lawn Lad is right i spend all of my time worrying and is it worth it i will let you know! but another point made was there is not enough time for both and there is not ia had to hire additional people and all sorts of bull$h!t so just watch out! i had to sacrafice my social life the last two months, my girlfriend is not happy but when you give them a diamond all is forgiven!
AK Lawn

[LawnLad]

AK - you're only 19, don't worry about the diamond yet. lol. And believe me, a diamond doesn't make it all go away! Maybe only for a minute. lol again! If only money/jewelry were the solution...

[AK Lawn]

It was only a joke but i see you took it that way, but she does already have the diamond! At any rate iam working my ass off to keep this business running, everything is going good it is just hard to be away, Also you couldn't hsve said it better, no a diamond is only a quick fix. she is in it with me for the long run so see understands, and supports me, thanks for the advice Lawn Lad
AK Lawn

I may only be 19 but i feel like a 40 year old but that is a different story!

[LawnLad]

I never like it when people gave me unsolicitated advice... so on this forum I get to be a complete hypocrit, maybe that's why I hang here. Congratulations and best wishes to you both - you can't ask for anything more when you've got someone who can understand that you're in business for yourself and all that it takes. Sounds like you've got your head screwed on straight and are heading in a good direction. People told me growing up I acted like a 40 yr old - and I didn't listen because I was making money. Now I'm feeling 40 and maybe a little burned out. My only advice, unsolicitated or not - have fun while you're younger (dammm do I sound old) because as you get older - it's easier to fall into the trap of working for "our collective futures" with kids/house/tuition, etc. as the driving force.

Ah heck, I should wait until I'm 60 to be saying this.

[AK Lawn]

was going to send you an email to let you know i appreciate everything and your comments Lawn Lad but it would not tlet me so thanks, if it is okay send me an email with your address off my profile.
Thanks
AK Lawn

[awm]

lawn ladd ,ihear your tiredness.
im 54 an can tell u that i wasted too many yrs before i learned this one thing. no mater what age u are each day ,is one less of your allotted number. get the very most out of each one u can.and being alive is a blast.i kinda like the garth brooks song standing outside of the fire.
also the dance.i