zero turn dangerous?

[GCAN]

I'm new to this forum and a homeowner but I mow about 3 acres of lawn so wanted to get a good long term piece of equipment. I asked a couple of professional landscape friends and they pointed me to several brands but all zero turn units. I ended up getting a Ex Mark Lazer Z (but feel sure my results would be the same with any zero turn) at a cost over 6K with tax and to me it is dangerous. I've slid into our fence twice (the fence actually saved me from going off an embankment), the house once, the basket ball goal, and had it up on the rear wheels only more than once. I drive heavy equipment and warehouse equipment often so operating a mower should be easy right.....not.
My house is on a hill and the mower will not hold a hill. I go across my yard and turn around and slide into the fence, I go with the fence on a 15 degree hill and it slides into the fence......dangerous. I told my wife that a tractor would never have these issues. It seems like it is fast in a wide open space but cutting close, on hills, or around objects is a pain. Any gains in speed are lost in additional weed eating now required and at a cost of $6,000 for the new mower.
I've been told to never cut what the lawn is still wet but unfortunately I usually cut when I have time and can't always wait for the ground to be bone dry besides this wasn't an issue when I had my previous mower a lawn tractor. I've done some research and since the zero turns have become so popular the injury and even death rate has gone up substantially....
What am I missing?? I know I still could use practice but after 24 hours on the mower it isn't any better. We now have to monitor each other so somebody will be around in case of an accident.
Everybody seems brainwashed into thinking te zero turns are the best thing since the gas powered unit??
Am I so unique or have others faced the same issues? Is there light at the end of this tunnel without taking a beating on the mower and selling it and getting a tractor?

[djflats]

I've been using ZTR's for the last 7-8 years and haven't had problems. You have to know what the mower can do. Which ZTR do you have? I had a Cub Cadet residential for 2 years and it cut fine except on hills. Going up was ok but no control going down or parallel. I used a Cub Cadet Tank and it was the same as the residential, good cut but bad on inclines.
At work I use an Exmark Next Lazer Z and I have no problems on hills, going up, down, or parallel. Here at home I use the Exmark Lazer Z A/S and have no problems. If you look at Tacoma's thread on "slope", I'd say I've cut on slopes in the 17 degree range a lot with no problems. I cut a few that may be a little more but not often, I don't want to push it.
I don't know why some hold and some don't. I don't know if it's the size of pumps or the HP or maybe a combination of things. I know the Lazer Z's I use have a low center of gravity though, I guess that helps.
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=290318

[harleysville7]

I have heard a few horror stories as well. I am also new to this type of equipment and in some of the research I have been doing it seems that the zero turn is definitely something that you should be careful with.

If you look at the new Lazer Z and Toro G3 both units are designed with a lower center of gravity.

They must be doing this for a reason..

Maybe a different set of tires would help if you are mowing the same ground all the time..

[Zuess]

Check the tire pressure, try running it down to 10- 12 psi and see if that makes a difference.

[Shasta Lake Landscaping]

You should of demo'd one on your property. The last thing we need is more people saying there dangerous just because they use them wrong, then manufactures make idiot changes that MURDER productivity.

[4 seasons lawn&land]

sounds like your the dangerous one. I think you need to trade it in on a rocking chair and hire someone...

[cooltype]

I have a lesco z2 which is the same thing as a cub cadet. at first i didnt think it would do nearly as much as my walk behind did but now i actually think i have taken it in all the same spots my walk behind used to go. My guess is its the operator not the equipment unless you have some kind of cheapo home owner edition of exmark which sounds like that might be part of the problem seeing how the exmarks i know about are $10k or so new, not $6k

[kb9nvh]

Get more aggressive tires....Lower your pressure.

Your spinning and loosing traction I think..

You have to adapt to the new machine and how it works.

[brucec32]

They can be dangerous in the wrong hands, yes. It sounds like you need some practice and to learn the limitations of these machines. I've used lazers for over 10 years and when one uses them correctly they're pretty darn stable. The Lazer Z is one of the most popular and respected models, so I can't imagine the mower being the problem. But early on, you have to learn what the machine can and cannot do or you will get hurt.

If you're sliding into a fence near an embankment it means you were likely pointed downhill. Well, use some common sense. Point a machine that has traction to two rear wheels downhill and when the weight shifts forward you lose a lot of traction on the rears. Mow accross slopes, or mow up and back down slopes, avoid slopes over 20 degrees(they say 15 in the manual), don't go anywhere near a spot you could die if you slid off (ponds, cliffs, etc), and SLOW DOWN. They are billy goats pointed uphill, but sleds in wet conditions pointed downhill.

It's going to be a lot more stable than a lawn tractor. But if you drive it like a lawn tractor you will have an accident. Because it isn't a lawn tractor.

Nobody's "brainwashed". They're used by thousands daily who don't have problems. Because they work. I have walk behinds and ZTRs and each has its place. You need to learn where you can and cannot safely use one. I can tell you that I can safely operate in places that a homeowner lawn tractor would kill someone on. Still, I err on the side of safety and don't put them on steep slopes in dangerous areas.

Air down your tires (I can see how a newbie might overinflate them) to 12-14psi and put your seat back all the way to shift weight over drive tires. Besides that keep your ROPS up while you learn or sell it and get a walk behind mower.

[MS_SURVEYOR]

I'll tell you what! I'm not riding on any 15 degree hill with my ztr. First off I don't have any 15 degree slopes. Second, I'm waiting on the grass to dry out now. I hate mowing wet grass. I'd like to see some pictures of the lawn and mower. You said it was a Lazer Z. Are you sure it's not a Quest? But with some pictures we might be able to help. Like get some bar tires may be? I don't know? Sounds like you're having one heck of a dangerous time.

Be careful out there GCAN!

[skeet]

I'm new to this forum and a homeowner but I mow about 3 acres of lawn so wanted to get a good long term piece of equipment. I asked a couple of professional landscape friends and they pointed me to several brands but all zero turn units. I ended up getting a Ex Mark Lazer Z (but feel sure my results would be the same with any zero turn) at a cost over 6K with tax and to me it is dangerous. I've slid into our fence twice (the fence actually saved me from going off an embankment), the house once, the basket ball goal, and had it up on the rear wheels only more than once. I drive heavy equipment and warehouse equipment often so operating a mower should be easy right.....not.
My house is on a hill and the mower will not hold a hill. I go across my yard and turn around and slide into the fence, I go with the fence on a 15 degree hill and it slides into the fence......dangerous. I told my wife that a tractor would never have these issues. It seems like it is fast in a wide open space but cutting close, on hills, or around objects is a pain. Any gains in speed are lost in additional weed eating now required and at a cost of $6,000 for the new mower.
I've been told to never cut what the lawn is still wet but unfortunately I usually cut when I have time and can't always wait for the ground to be bone dry besides this wasn't an issue when I had my previous mower a lawn tractor. I've done some research and since the zero turns have become so popular the injury and even death rate has gone up substantially....
What am I missing?? I know I still could use practice but after 24 hours on the mower it isn't any better. We now have to monitor each other so somebody will be around in case of an accident.
Everybody seems brainwashed into thinking te zero turns are the best thing since the gas powered unit??
Am I so unique or have others faced the same issues? Is there light at the end of this tunnel without taking a beating on the mower and selling it and getting a tractor?

YOU my GOOD man scare me when it comes to common sense..Bless you and your family

[GCAN]

thanks to the ones offering the advice, I'll check the pressure in the morning

others - I've cut this yard for 9 years and never the first incident and now with this new equipment 5 close calls to injury in 3 weeks. if anything I'm overly cautious which is why I said we currently monitor each other in case of an accident. THis isn't off to the races but rahter me trying to go slow and learn tthe equipment to make it work since I know I can't get my money back and I'm definately not rich....maybe not the operator but the equipment. .....again an example of the mass followers and their zero turns. If your cutting a golf course....great piece of equipment but for the average rough, hilly, not perfect lawn they may be better choices

[mowerbrad]

-Like others have said try lowering the tire pressure or even getting a more aggressive tire.

-You also should try avoid mowing when your lawn is wet, that will only cause you to have worse traction.

ZTR's are not like lawn tractors, they take time to get good with. Typically it would be best for you to be using it on flat ground and then moving to slopes once you feel comfortable.

[kb9nvh]

Well, if your on big hills trying to maneuver around stuff on wet grass its gonna be tough. I know when I first got my BB it had to slow it up around the stuff I didn't want to hit...now its never a problem but I dont have big hills. I think more aggressive tread is in order for you if you are on big hills.

thanks to the ones offering the advice, I'll check the pressure in the morning

others - I've cut this yard for 9 years and never the first incident and now with this new equipment 5 close calls to injury in 3 weeks. if anything I'm overly cautious which is why I said we currently monitor each other in case of an accident. THis isn't off to the races but rahter me trying to go slow and learn tthe equipment to make it work since I know I can't get my money back and I'm definately not rich....maybe not the operator but the equipment. .....again an example of the mass followers and their zero turns. If your cutting a golf course....great piece of equipment but for the average rough, hilly, not perfect lawn they may be better choices

[mowerbrad]

I'll tell you what! I'm not riding on any 15 degree hill with my ztr. First off I don't have any 15 degree slopes. Second, I'm waiting on the grass to dry out now. I hate mowing wet grass. I'd like to see some pictures of the lawn and mower. You said it was a Lazer Z. Are you sure it's not a Quest? But with some pictures we might be able to help. Like get some bar tires may be? I don't know? Sounds like you're having one heck of a dangerous time.

Be careful out there GCAN!

Knowing what type of mower you have would be very helpful. I find it hard to believe that a full size lazer z would have this poor of handling on a 15 degree slope. However I could see a Lazer z ct or quest performing like this.

[brucec32]

thanks to the ones offering the advice, I'll check the pressure in the morning

others - I've cut this yard for 9 years and never the first incident and now with this new equipment 5 close calls to injury in 3 weeks. if anything I'm overly cautious which is why I said we currently monitor each other in case of an accident. THis isn't off to the races but rahter me trying to go slow and learn tthe equipment to make it work since I know I can't get my money back and I'm definately not rich....maybe not the operator but the equipment. .....again an example of the mass followers and their zero turns. If your cutting a golf course....great piece of equipment but for the average rough, hilly, not perfect lawn they may be better choices

I'm pretty sure you're going to get blasted here. You're saying the tens of thousands of professionals who mow with them year in year out for the last 15 years or whatever are just brainwashed morons. They mow more grass in a week than you mow in a year, but you know better? Doesn't it occur to you that we see situations like yours, and worse, all the time? The difference is we learned how to use the machines before we headed out to mow wet slopes with them.

I reread your post. I sounds like you're almost certainly making turns DOWNHILL, which is a no-no. Because if you make a 3 point turn to the uphill side on all turns (you didn't know to do that, did you?) you will NOT slide. Also, if you are mowing right beside a vertical fence on a 15 degree slope in wet conditions with 1200 lb of operator and machine you are going to have to compensate when steering. Despite your experience with other machinery it sounds like you haven't learned how to do that reliably. Your lawn tractor was probably 500 lbs or whatever and has lateral traction on the front wheels. Drive a ZTR like a tractor and it's going to wind up in the fence.

Could not disagree more on the relative ability around obstacles. I can mow next to a 3" wide sapling and not touch it.

I've mowed maybe 12,000 home lawns with a ZTR over the years. I have done zero significant damage and have reared up on 2 wheels maybe 3 times, and never was it a serious danger issue as the mower is designed to prevent flipping over with its "tail". I've kissed a fence once or twice. Always when I was tired or inattentive. My fault, not the mower's. I've hit zero goalposts. You have a few days experience with the machine. You're going to have a hard time convincing me the machine is the problem.

[djflats]

thanks to the ones offering the advice, I'll check the pressure in the morning

others - I've cut this yard for 9 years and never the first incident and now with this new equipment 5 close calls to injury in 3 weeks. if anything I'm overly cautious which is why I said we currently monitor each other in case of an accident. THis isn't off to the races but rahter me trying to go slow and learn tthe equipment to make it work since I know I can't get my money back and I'm definately not rich....maybe not the operator but the equipment. .....again an example of the mass followers and their zero turns. If your cutting a golf course....great piece of equipment but for the average rough, hilly, not perfect lawn they may be better choices

Exactly what mower do you have...make, model, size cut, engine and HP, etc?

[Richard Martin]

The ZTR mower is not for everyone and an inability to operate one is no big deal. I'd rather someone tell me they're not comfortable operating a specific machine then have them injure themselves trying to meet some self imposed expectation. I tried a guy out over the summer on my Dixie and he ran it for about 10 minutes and got off. He out and out told me he'd never be able to operate it and I can live with that. I've also always started people out in the middle of a wide open area. That way they can get used to the machines before we move on to a real customers property. I do this with my ZTR and the walk behinds.

[MOturkey]

I've got probably 1200 to 1500 hours on a Z. I've only totally lost control twice, both time when mowing ditches. Scared the bejesus out of me, but no harm done as I only had a few feet to slip.

Here are a few tips, and I'm sure some of the guys with more years under their belts can add others. One, on a slope, pretend you are driving a car on an ice covered road. Everything should be done slow and easy, acceleration, turning, and braking. Most times the problems arise when you break traction (wheel spin). Similar situation to locked brakes on a car, you have no control.

Also, when going across slopes, virtually all the power should be applied to the lower side, giving just enough power to the upper wheel to keep it rolling and aid in steering.

Also, many have cautioned about wet grass. Dry conditions can be just as bad, or perhaps, worse, because a hard, dry lawn can make it difficult for a tire to gain purchase and you will lose traction and start spinning. Good luck, and be careful.

[topsites]

I would have to agree, you're pointing it down slope.
That and if you're running into things, you need to slow down.

But here, read: NEVER.

Wait.

NEVER Point a ZTR down a hill!

Get that?
Always cut slopes with the Z pointing UP hill.
Yes, I've done some of the worst slopes with the Z pointed UP hill the entire time,
all it takes is having to fish it out of a concrete culvert with the truck a few times.
But, your method seems to be pointing you in the direction of the learning curve as well LOL

..................................
I do find it annoying how, when cutting across a slope, sometimes the high tire will lose traction
and then I keep giving the low tire more forward while I pull back on the high...
The problem is, once the high tire starts to lose traction, it doesn't matter how much I pull back on it, other than where I end up.
Once a tire starts to lose traction, the more you fight it, the better the chances someone is going down, and I mean down.
One trick I learned is to LEAN over the high tire, to put my body weight towards that side, it does tend to help.

[FastMan]

GCAN, yes, there's definately a learning period with them. Hills have rules of the road when operating these machines. Once you get those rules sorted out, Z's are extremely functional & efficient pieces of equipment. Sounds like you have a tough yard to hone your skills on. It's up to you if you want to weather the learning period, or just throw in the towel and get a mower type you're currently familiar with.

If you do stick it out, and learn the ropes, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. You're not yet coming close to milking your Z of all it's potential.

I've been using a z for many years, and for pure grass cutting duties on a larger property I'd want nothing else. If I wanted a multi purpose machine for various jobs on my homestead I'd get a tractor. In an ideal world I'd have both.

[puppypaws]

I'm new to this forum and a homeowner but I mow about 3 acres of lawn so wanted to get a good long term piece of equipment. I asked a couple of professional landscape friends and they pointed me to several brands but all zero turn units. I ended up getting a Ex Mark Lazer Z (but feel sure my results would be the same with any zero turn) at a cost over 6K with tax and to me it is dangerous. I've slid into our fence twice (the fence actually saved me from going off an embankment), the house once, the basket ball goal, and had it up on the rear wheels only more than once. I drive heavy equipment and warehouse equipment often so operating a mower should be easy right.....not.
My house is on a hill and the mower will not hold a hill. I go across my yard and turn around and slide into the fence, I go with the fence on a 15 degree hill and it slides into the fence......dangerous. I told my wife that a tractor would never have these issues. It seems like it is fast in a wide open space but cutting close, on hills, or around objects is a pain. Any gains in speed are lost in additional weed eating now required and at a cost of $6,000 for the new mower.
I've been told to never cut what the lawn is still wet but unfortunately I usually cut when I have time and can't always wait for the ground to be bone dry besides this wasn't an issue when I had my previous mower a lawn tractor. I've done some research and since the zero turns have become so popular the injury and even death rate has gone up substantially....
What am I missing?? I know I still could use practice but after 24 hours on the mower it isn't any better. We now have to monitor each other so somebody will be around in case of an accident.
Everybody seems brainwashed into thinking te zero turns are the best thing since the gas powered unit??
Am I so unique or have others faced the same issues? Is there light at the end of this tunnel without taking a beating on the mower and selling it and getting a tractor?

You've got to get the air pressure down into the 10 lb range and stay off the grass until it is bone dry. I know you can drop the air pressure but if you can't stay off the excessively steep slopes until the ground is dry you need to be mowing with another machine. If the slope gets steep enough and it is damp, they will slide.

[GCAN]

my mower is a LHP19KA465 ExMark Lazer Z HP with a 19 hp Kawasaki engine it is a 08 that was purchased this summer

I checked and the tire pressure was 18 PSI so I lowered it to 12 PSI. I approached the part on a slope with the front pointed up hill but as I inched forward, literaly, it broke and started sliding. I started a foot from my fence, again now more weed eating, and fully stopped with the park brake about 2 inches from the fence. To keep it off the fence I had my wife back it up while I pulled on the front end to get it pointed back uphill. It is obvious where the smooth front tires point the mower will follow.

I'm not a zero hater just a person that is learning a lesson the hard way they aren't for everybody or every lawn. I suspect the average large residential lawn would be better served with a tractor but the average commercial property which time has more front end area work done and may be better served with a zero.
like I said in my case even if I can keep from damaging myself and my propety using the zero isn't saving any time with the addittional weed eating actualy is taking more physical work with the weed eating.

[mowerbrad]

With your Lazer being an HP I can see why you are having some of the problems. The hp's have narrower rear tires, which I have found will decrease your grip on hills. Your rear tires are key to the grip you have on hills. Your front caster tires, have nothing to do with your stability or where your mower will go, they move freely so they point where the mower wants to go.

Now, you just seem to be completely unhappy with this mower. It doesn't help that you are a new operator and this is your first ztr. But complaining about the stability and how much time it takes to mow, isn't going to do anything. Its obvious that you would rather not be using this mower. My suggestion to you would be to sell the lazer and just get a stander or lawn tractor.

[tharrison57]

Finishing up my 2nd year with a Kubota ZD-331/72. Did 5 years with a ZD-21/60 with no problems, but this new one I just can't get the hang of. This winter's project will be swiping a set of scales, after the racing season is over, and scaling out the 331, my brother's ZD-21, the BIL exmark, and the neighbor's Dixie.

Inquiring minds want to know ..............

[djflats]

With the CC TANK I had(M48)I don't know if it's the way it's made or if it was under powered but it was terrible on inclines. If I was going to cut parallel the incline couldn't be much. It felt like it just didn't have the power with the 19 HP Kawasaki. The TANK does sit up pretty high though. The 19 was a
the only option on the 2004 model. I have the Lazer Z A/S with a 60" cut w/ 25 HP Kohler and it holds good. I guess it depends on what "make" you have.

[topsites]

It might be too steep a hill but I will say this...

Long story short?
Ask me why I've only put 200 hours on mine in 3 years.

Dangerous, maybe that was just the wrong title, but the long of it...
I have three mowers, two are 48" Toro Wb's, one is a 60" Ztr.
The Z can't do every yard, I use the 48's a lot more than the Z.
Why, they're more efficient on yards less than an acre in size, they're easier
on fuel because they are far lighter, they cost a whole lot less to operate, for starters.

The Z?
Mostly a dang status symbol if you ask me, the Rolls Royce of mowers.
Granted it is nice, but if we had one, would we take the Rolls to work every day?
It definitely does best on wide open, flat terrain, acres of TALL grass is where the Z thrives.

It's expensive, heavy, cumbersome in turns and on hills, it makes my truck not only harder to drive but it
decreases the fuel economy while it increases the braking distance, not to mention the weight makes my
trailer's $100 6-ply radial tires wear a lot faster (and just to piss me off, unevenly).

On a small yard, the Z might save me 5-10 minutes time in terms of mowing, as you already pointed out there comes the trimming
and all that time saved is quickly lost, not to mention the cost differential hardly makes up for it.

But yes, I love taking it out on acre+ lots and cutting foot tall stuff with the mow height set between 5 to 6 inches.
I can make great money with it at cut throat prices, due to its power and speed, so long I can OPEN her UP!
Because the Z cuts GRASS like nobody's business, but do most people's yards really get that agricultural?

And it's nice in the maintenance department, the Wb's go down for an hour of maintenance for every 8-10 hours of operation, roughly,
the Z can go 25-100 hours in between most things except the blades... But, the parts are considerably more expensive, I can plan
on spending hundreds in a year's worth of maintenance spells for the Z.

In summary...
To this day I am still not sure if it was worth the $8500 I paid for mine either, thou.

Peace out

[GCAN]

topsites - thank you for the objective opinion

In my 35+ years of mowing I've never had an accident or had a mower get away from me until I experienced the zero. So I do consider them dangerous or at the very least a safety concern. In the past I would often let my kids use our lawn tractor and help but I wouldn't even consider it with the zero and they aren't little kids, one is in HS and the other is in college. I don't even like my wife using it and she used to do almost all the mowing. Maybe the answer is these should be left to the pro's.......

My point for the post is hopefully to help others both individuals and professionals to think about what they are getting in to and hopefully spend more time testing options instead of just following everybody else and listening to advice of others.
As Topsite said in a wide open field I wouldn't have any other mower but in a residential area with a pool, trees, beds, and fences.....they are most likely not the best option. And also like he said they evidently are a status thing my buddies love that I have a Z but most of them don't own a zero.

I've lowered the air in the tires and may even get a more agressive tire....I'm in it now and can't get out without taking a bath so I'll try to make the best of it.
Also I guess now that I've got a mack daddy zero I'll go out a nd get a bigger and better weed eater to get all the areas the zero can't mow.

thanks to all

[djflats]

Am I doing something wrong? Since I've been using the Z I've cut down on weed eating. GCAN...I don't "cut for a living" but I cut around 5 acres here at home and at work I cut around the electrical substations, somewhere between 25-30 subs, ranging from 1/2 to 4 acres. I always used a CC lawn/garden tractor at home and a Kubota 1750 tractor w/ a bush hog at work. When I 1st got a ZTR it was different for sure. There were places I had to adjust to here at the house in order to cut with it...hills, etc. It doesn't take long to get used to. Once I got the feel of it I cut my mowing time in half.
At work I used the Kubota for 14 years and it served good but the ZTR blows it away as for as cut goes and the time to cut really decreased. Take your ZTR out and just drive it around without cutting, go along the fence, think over the inclines and you'll probably figure out how to get them cut. You may not be able to cut your property using the same "pattern" as you did with the lawn mower. Once you get it down you'll like it.
ZTR's can be dangerous but all mowers can be if you don't "train" on them to get to know them. Hang in there.

[GCAN]

will do - thanks for the encouragement....I'm just very frustrated and concerned because I spent what is a lot of money to me.

My wife was at a friends this morning and they have another brand ZTR that is about 3 years old and she said it operates much smoother.
Maybe it's because it's new but ours seems very jerky almost like the hydor's are over pressured.....
Sun just came out so maybe I'll get to drive it around today

[MS_SURVEYOR]

I'm the same as djflats. I used a 46 inch Sabre by JD with a 16hp briggs to mow 2-1/2 acres every week. Got a bush hog to come in twice a year to cut the other 2-1/2 acres. Seems like it took days to mow that 2-1/2 acres. Bahia grass is tuff stuff to mow. Then the lawn started getting smaller because of rain, lack of time, family members getting sick and dying. Then it was once a year getting the bush hog on the property. Got to be a mess. :hammerhead: My father in law died, so that ment mowing the mother in law's lawn. The deck on my Sabre rotted. $500+ I put a new deck on the Sabre. Started mowing the mil's lawn. Got the bush hog out to my place. By that time I had a 1/2 acre mow able. The wife mowing her mother's lawn started whining about how hard the Sabre was to mow with. In the mean time her sister lawn service to come in a mow the mil's lawn. That dude showed up with a Yazoo Kees ztr. He was gone in an hour. :weightlifter: My wife calls me, "we're getting a ztr!". So we start researching and shopping. More researching and shopping. I find this site. I find other sites. We looked at Exmark, Scag, Farris, Gravely, Toro, Yazoo Kees, Hustler, and then we found Bad Boy. At first my wife wanted a homeowner model. I told her to research engines. It didn't take long before she saw the benefit of a higher end mower. We settled on a 52 inch Bad Boy Pup with a 30hp Kohler Command Pro Engine. The best thing we ever did. Now She mows her mother's lawn in an hour. I no longer need the bush hog knocking down brush. I can nicely mow my 5 acre in 2-1/2 hours. There was a learning curve. I had to start over and forget what I knew about operating a mower. ZTR's are different. But reading and asking questions here have been a blessing. I too thought I was going to kill myself on that big bad azz powerful ztr. But now it's second nature, and fun.

I'd suggest you get the dealer out to your place and look over your yard. Let them drive your mower in the conditions at hand. Ask them, "WHAT THE HECK?"!

Good Luck!
And Stay Away From That Fence!:cry:

[ksJoe]

My wife was at a friends this morning and they have another brand ZTR that is about 3 years old and she said it operates much smoother.
Maybe it's because it's new but ours seems very jerky almost like the hydor's are over pressured.....

Sounds like you're running it at full throttle?

If equipment was supposed to always be run at full throttle, the throttle wouldn't be adjustable :waving:

Try running the engine as slow as you can, with it still having enough power to mow. When you get used to that and it feels sluggish and boring, raise a little bit. Keep doing that, and before you know it, you'll be wishing the throttle will go higher so you can mow faster.

[93Chevy]

Sounds like you're running it at full throttle?

If equipment was supposed to always be run at full throttle, the throttle wouldn't be adjustable :waving:

Try running the engine as slow as you can, with it still having enough power to mow. When you get used to that and it feels sluggish and boring, raise a little bit. Keep doing that, and before you know it, you'll be wishing the throttle will go higher so you can mow faster.

Then how come in nearly every equipment manual I've read on mowers, it says to run the machine at full throttle?

You're supposed to use the sticks to control your speed.

[djflats]

Yep, you should have the throttle fully opened while mowing.

[skeet]

PLEASE, noTrolls

[kb9nvh]

Sounds like your getting too aggressive on the controls and getting your tires spinning. When I went from my tiger cub to my BB lightning I had a few close calls at first...had to keep lighter hand on the controls. I think you can even adjust the controls for longer motions and less aggressive action. Don't write it off just yet...give it some time.
Remember when you first learned to ride a bike and crashed alot....bet you dont crash on a bike now at all. :-)

[fastbs]

i used to do this one with a craftsman rider till it sent a rod through the B&S intek block at 400 hrs. now it's up and back down. the first pass is fun i go straight arond the bottom and it slides down till i hit the asphault.

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo94/fastbs/spartahilla.jpg

[GCAN]

fastbs - that's great but the slope on my yard is not quite as steep but the bottom has a drop off into the woods. Having the turn around space at the bottom has to provide some comfort....if you slide you go off the grass into the parking lot, if I slide I go off a
3' emankment and into the woods

[fastbs]

fastbs - that's great but the slope on my yard is not quite as steep but the bottom has a drop off into the woods. Having the turn around space at the bottom has to provide some comfort....if you slide you go off the grass into the parking lot, if I slide I go off a
3' emankment and into the woods

sounds like a my mower seat would develop a crease in it mowing your yard.
back down it and go back up at an angle then back down again (you can probably see the pattern in my pic). just don't get too close to the drop off. finish it off with a trimmer. that probably doesn't seem like the answer you want since you spent money on a ztr. Most ZTRs will hold hills well as long as the back is on the down side of the hill no side ways or front down mowing without a landing pad.

[ksJoe]

Then how come in nearly every equipment manual I've read on mowers, it says to run the machine at full throttle?

You're supposed to use the sticks to control your speed.

I still say back off the throttle a bit and get comfortable with it. I grew up working in Dad's equipment rental yard, and we would NEVER insist a customer run something at full throttle if they weren't accustomed to it. And for loading/unloading some things we would specifically tell them not to do it at full throttle.

Experienced contractors are another matter, but most of our customers were homeowners.

If the OP emails the manufacturer and explains the situation, do you really think they'll insist he run it at full throttle?

[GCAN]

obviously I had no idea the ZTR would be so difficult in a "non traditional" yard. I have a slope, I have tree's, I have beds, I have a detached garage....not a wide open field golf course type setting which to me seems like the ZTR's real strength.
On the weed eating that is also part of my frustration.....I went froma a big box larwn tractor to a Mack Daddy ZTR and have had 1 accident, 3 close calls and have doubled my weed eating....not exactly my plan when I spent the big $$$'s the ZTR.
My fault I should have demo'ed one at my house before purchase instead of listening to others.
When I do the open areas this mower is great just parts are driving me crazy and making me question my safety and the choice I made going from tractor to ZTR.

I will stay at if and do all I can to safely make the transition.

Thanks for the input
Greg

[93Chevy]

I still say back off the throttle a bit and get comfortable with it. I grew up working in Dad's equipment rental yard, and we would NEVER insist a customer run something at full throttle if they weren't accustomed to it. And for loading/unloading some things we would specifically tell them not to do it at full throttle.

Experienced contractors are another matter, but most of our customers were homeowners.

If the OP emails the manufacturer and explains the situation, do you really think they'll insist he run it at full throttle?

Why wouldn't you want more power to hydros in case of sticky situation? What happens if you start to slip, try to get the nose uphill to avoid a slide, and you don't have enough power to spin around fast enough? You can go at any speed you make the hydros go. I hardly ever go balls-out unless it's flat and dry.

[ksJoe]

Why wouldn't you want more power to hydros in case of sticky situation? What happens if you start to slip, try to get the nose uphill to avoid a slide, and you don't have enough power to spin around fast enough? You can go at any speed you make the hydros go. I hardly ever go balls-out unless it's flat and dry.

You are correct that full throttle will allow the machine to be maneuvered more quickly in an emergency situation.

But does more speed equal more safety?

IMO, the answer to that depends entirely on the operator. For someone such as yourself who operates these machines all day every day... certainly! I expect in an emergency you could use all the power and speed the machine can offer. For you, full throttle makes it less likely you'll have an accident.

But for a homeowner on his first ZTR, trying not to lose control of it on a slope... no way - speed is the danger here. He doesn't have the instincts (yet) in an emergency to safely use that power/speed. All extra power will do for him is make the machine more jumpy when he overreacts. Once he loses control, he'll probably hit anything nearby anyway. Obviously the engine needs to be going fast enough for the blade to cut well, but beyond that I suggest no faster than he's comfortable with. IMHO, he is far better off to keep the throttle down so his accidents are gentle bumps and not hard crashes.

He also mentioned a 3' embankment at the bottom of the hill. I'd suggest putting something at the bottom of the hill (sand bags, railroad ties, etc). Accept the fact that you'll slide into them occasionally for a while. As long as you're going slow, they should stop you.

In time, the OP will be comfortable running the ZTR at full speed at least under most circumstances.

[MS_SURVEYOR]

You are correct that full throttle will allow the machine to be maneuvered more quickly in an emergency situation.

But does more speed equal more safety?

IMO, the answer to that depends entirely on the operator. For someone such as yourself who operates these machines all day every day... certainly! I expect in an emergency you could use all the power and speed the machine can offer. For you, full throttle makes it less likely you'll have an accident.

But for a homeowner on his first ZTR, trying not to lose control of it on a slope... no way - speed is the danger here. He doesn't have the instincts (yet) in an emergency to safely use that power/speed. All extra power will do for him is make the machine more jumpy when he overreacts. Once he loses control, he'll probably hit anything nearby anyway. Obviously the engine needs to be going fast enough for the blade to cut well, but beyond that I suggest no faster than he's comfortable with. IMHO, he is far better off to keep the throttle down so his accidents are gentle bumps and not hard crashes.

He also mentioned a 3' embankment at the bottom of the hill. I'd suggest putting something at the bottom of the hill (sand bags, railroad ties, etc). Accept the fact that you'll slide into them occasionally for a while. As long as you're going slow, they should stop you.

In time, the OP will be comfortable running the ZTR at full speed at least under most circumstances.


Full throttle does not equal full speed. Engines need full throttle to cool. Hydro pumps and wheel motors need to have the engine running full throttle to operate at full efficiency giving the drive wheels much stronger control at a quicker response rate. Full speed come from pushing the steering levers to full speed. I have a hard time controlling my ztr at half throttle even if I'm only loading it on the trailer, or up a car jack to change blades. I hate it but I feel GCAN bought the wrong mower for the job. It's best to stay off steep slopes unless the mower can handle it. May be changing the rear tires to heavy lug or bar tires would help. When I got my z the wife wanted to sell the LT (lawn tractor). No no no no! I have a small slope on my drive way my z just doesn't like. I have a pond dam that I have to cross over the spillway and up with a sharp right hand turn to mow the dam. I'd be scared to death to drive my z across the spillway up to the dam. Just the same reason I keep a small walk behind around for trim work. Thou I don't have much of that.

Now thinking about this, I wonder what GCAN did with his old lawn tractor?

Good Luck. Be Safe.

ms

[GCAN]

this is one of my points....I'm being advised to put sand bags or RR ties up....why didn't I have to have them the past 9 years I've lived here. I agree with MS surveyor I feel I bought the wrong mower. Unfortunately I sold my other mower...man wish I'd kept it, it was safer and cut way down on the weed eating I now have to do.
I just don't see having such a steep learning curve to mow the lawn....I have a a 1100 pound machice that runs 14 mph doesn't have a steering wheel or brakes? But hey my wife loves this thing so seems like we'll keep it until she's also convinced it may not be our best option. I just hope she doesn't get hurt learning. I tried my best to explain to her it's not a matter of if but rather when she get's scared but she's not convinced.
I hope I'm wrong.

[MS_SURVEYOR]

this is one of my points....I'm being advised to put sand bags or RR ties up....why didn't I have to have them the past 9 years I've lived here. I agree with MS surveyor I feel I bought the wrong mower. Unfortunately I sold my other mower...man wish I'd kept it, it was safer and cut way down on the weed eating I now have to do.
I just don't see having such a steep learning curve to mow the lawn....I have a a 1100 pound machice that runs 14 mph doesn't have a steering wheel or brakes? But hey my wife loves this thing so seems like we'll keep it until she's also convinced it may not be our best option. I just hope she doesn't get hurt learning. I tried my best to explain to her it's not a matter of if but rather when she get's scared but she's not convinced.
I hope I'm wrong.

OH NO! You can't let her do it! 1100 lbs of running machine with blades spinning ain't nothing to take likely! I know my wife can operate better than me. But I don't have a steep slope with a 3 ft drop off at the bottom. You just can't let her do the dangerous sections of your yard.

GCAN, I sure wish you could take some pictures of the situation. A visual sure would help.

Here's a couple of videos to watch,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MIRe-60TLU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkhkpHKVWHg

[browng]

I have a very similar situation. I purchased a Hustler Super Duty 48" with the 23hp Kawasaki summer 2008. I loved this machine and it was amazing on flat or slightly sloped ground, however I have large hill in my back yard with about a 23 degree slope. Fortunately I don't have any fixed objects at the bottom. Most of the time I could get my ZTR to hold however sometimes it would break loose and skid down the hill tearing up my grass. I ended up selling the mower this spring and getting the new Hustler Trimstar 54" walk behind, this solved my problems. This mower is like a mountain goat, it walks all over my hill without any slippage and I am very satisfied now. If you are not familiar with this mower it is a dual hydro unit with a 23hp Kawasaki, it has a floating deck that adjusts like a ZTR with a lever that can be used from the mowing position.:clapping: