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theWRIGHTcut
09-21-2009, 08:45 AM
concerning fall clean up, etc. how do you guys aerate and seed? a customer of mine wants me to aerate his lawn then seed it. what type of seed would i use?

thanks for any responses

br549oicu8
09-21-2009, 10:00 AM
To be honest, you should seriously do some research. What one guy uses for his area isn't the choice for another. Not trying to cut you down at all. Your research will allow you to answer with knowledge any questions your customer may have. It's easy to recognize the lack of knowledge or uncertainty in an answer. You could lose the respect of a good customer if you shoot from the hip.
We have great success with Tall Fescue in our area (eastern Kansas). We make sure to get an excellent blend that is tested and proven by Kansas State University for this area.
A little research will get you on top of things for sure.
Please take this as constructive criticism and proven advice.
Good Luck!

theWRIGHTcut
09-21-2009, 10:26 AM
yeah i wouldn't be offended by anyone's suggestions, comments, advice, it's evident that I am not up to date on aerating....

i will be purchasing my first tow behind aerator later this afternoon hopefully. it is an aerator/seeder combo unit.

I guess i should have directed my question towards those working out of new jersey or areas close by...


lol this is how i do research! thanks br549oicu8

corey4671
09-21-2009, 11:09 AM
yeah i wouldn't be offended by anyone's suggestions, comments, advice, it's evident that I am not up to date on aerating....

i will be purchasing my first tow behind aerator later this afternoon hopefully. it is an aerator/seeder combo unit.

I guess i should have directed my question towards those working out of new jersey or areas close by...


lol this is how i do research! thanks br549oicu8

don't waste your money on this POS. it will be a spike type aerator. You want a plug type

theWRIGHTcut
09-21-2009, 11:16 AM
ohhh alright, i assumed it was a plug aerator but now i'm looking at it, it looks like stirrups...


plug it is then.... i can get a brinly for around $40, 40" may i add... anyone own this ? i rigged a nice little mount on the back of my wright sentar for pulling seeders and various other **** around

Kutz Lawns
09-21-2009, 12:28 PM
I've had really good results with this seed last fall overseeding my own yard and on a customers lawn. It spreads like a Zoysia type grass and fills in bare spots and it's the only tall fesque on the market that does this. I bought it from Home Depot and it was like $48 for a very large bag. Good Luck

http://www.vigoro.com/BrandNav/HelpfulHints/Grass+Seed.htm

theWRIGHTcut
09-21-2009, 12:32 PM
perfect i'll go check it out today, my old man runs a HD nearby


does anyone own a plug aerator that spreads as well? or does that not exist?


it's no big deal if i had to aerate then spread, i have a tow broadcast spreader. in my mind it would just be double the work = double the $$$

EagleGrounds
09-21-2009, 12:56 PM
I plug/core aerate then spread around here. Since 90% of the yards round here are a fescue or blue grass, i take a gamble and fescue/bluegrass mix available at homedepot with a spreader when im done aerating. If i notice that their grass is different i check with them on the type they have planted.

I have one guy with a one type is his front yard, and a different in his back (can't remember the types, but they are goofy).

theWRIGHTcut
09-21-2009, 04:41 PM
i have a guy with a front lawn that's half and half.... it is really odd looking, but when it's the prime of the season the stripe takes away from the idiotic look

hackitdown
09-21-2009, 05:25 PM
I do a lot of this. We also use a tow-behind core aerator, it works well. I then use a spreader to spread about 2 lbs of seed per 1000 sq/ft of lawn. My seeding price is about the same as the aeration price.

corey4671
09-21-2009, 06:55 PM
I do a lot of this. We also use a tow-behind core aerator, it works well. I then use a spreader to spread about 2 lbs of seed per 1000 sq/ft of lawn. My seeding price is about the same as the aeration price.

2lb/1k? really? that all? Wow I'm quoting 6/1k myself.....

corey4671
09-21-2009, 06:57 PM
ohhh alright, i assumed it was a plug aerator but now i'm looking at it, it looks like stirrups...


plug it is then.... i can get a brinly for around $40, 40" may i add... anyone own this ? i rigged a nice little mount on the back of my wright sentar for pulling seeders and various other **** around

let's see how you've rigged up this hitch

Genlandscape
09-21-2009, 07:25 PM
I would take the research advice, every zone has an ideal turf type. Also different types of seed require different rates for new plantings and overseeding. We don't do much but hydro-seeding here to establish new bahia grass. Check with your local exstension service, they will have all the info you need. The people that put this info together are highly educated professionals, so they know what they are talking about.

Marcos
09-21-2009, 07:39 PM
concerning fall clean up, etc. how do you guys aerate and seed? a customer of mine wants me to aerate his lawn then seed it. what type of seed would i use?

thanks for any responses

Mechanized core aerators were not originally intended to be used for the purposes of turf renovation.
They were brought into the green industry by some of the nation's leading golf courses back in the mid-late 60's & early 70's largely for greens and tee maintenance coupled with the use of raked in sand backfill.

The fledgeling chemical lawn care industry soon picked up on the original concept and ran with it, its salesmen regularly twisting & bastardizing aeration into marketing schemes trying to undercut legitimate renovation & seeding contractors who were out there with much more expensive tractor-mounted rototillers & vertical blade set-ups, and/or devoted low-profile equipment that evolved into what we all know today as... "slice seeders".

Oh, can you get seed to come in with aeration & seeding?
Of course you can!
But is it the most practical & efficient way to do the job?
No, not by a long shot.

Core aerators generally pull cores that are too deep to be any good for seed development, and the deposited cores are much too random to be much good either.
This is the PRECISE reason why the only decent aeration & seedings are the ones gone over the same areas with the aerator 2X or even 3X.
And if somebody has the determination to go through all that headache, why wouldn't they want to invest in the right equipment for the job in the 1st place? :confused:

But to be perfectly fair :waving::
Some of the best renovation work I've ever seen with fescue was done by 1st aerating heavily, waiting an hour or so until the cores dried a little, and then running over the dried cores with a decent quality slice seeder, dropping seed of course.

Never try to aerate a bone-dry yard, of course! :laugh:
And have the customer mow it somewhat lower so you can see exactly where you've been & where you're going in terms of cores deposited.
It's a lot easier on the equipment (ALL renovation equipment) when the grass is cropped short, plus new seed wont have to compete with nearly as much 'green canopy' as it emerges.

theWRIGHTcut
09-22-2009, 04:35 PM
corey4671: I will take a snapshot of the rig when hooked up tomorrow and post either then or the day after.....


marcos: i can see what you mean, but it's all relative to expenses... I wound up paying 75$ for the aerator, and the seeder was given to my father and I by a neighbor, which is essentially brand new.


If i had the budget to spend on quality equipment, it would be mine, but I am just trying to keep it simple, being that this is all new to me... eventually I'll own a nice pricey rig!

Ron D.
09-24-2009, 03:48 PM
You should consider topdressing with a premium compost after you aerate and overseed. It will help cover the seed and give a very lush appearance. I would also use a high quality seed.

phasthound
09-24-2009, 06:48 PM
concerning fall clean up, etc. how do you guys aerate and seed? a customer of mine wants me to aerate his lawn then seed it. what type of seed would i use?

thanks for any responses

For seed choices in NJ, contact Dr. Jim Murphy at rutgers murphy@aesop.rutgers.edu

Then for best results, core aerate at least twice in different directions, more in bare spots, use a slit seeder, top dress with compost. However, none of this will work if the client does not irrigate properly. Seeds must be kept moist for 3 weeks for best germination.

If you are able to spray, ICT Organics Hydro-Seed will increase the rate and speed of germination and provide long term benefits for turf health.

The best way to set yourself up for success is to provide superior results, then your clients will become your best sales people.

theWRIGHTcut
09-25-2009, 06:21 PM
here is some pics of the set up, keep in mind the bracket was free, just had to fabricate some galvanized steel to make it work, (probably isn't tough enough i'm thinking now) and $50 for the aerator, which is essentially BRAND SPANKIN new!


i really need to do my research about seeding, but I've read a little about compost spreading in this months turf magazine.


i really am a small operation, so rigs like this make me $ and make me smile :)

theWRIGHTcut
09-25-2009, 06:23 PM
i know guys, it really is pretty half ass, but it's the bang i got for the buck, i will run a better tow mount next week with 5/8 threaded bar, it's hard to explain but you catch my drift



just hope to see less reply's of people laughing at me lol

phasthound
09-25-2009, 06:48 PM
Can't tell from the photos, are you pulling plugs from the soil or just spiking it?

Ron D.
09-25-2009, 09:52 PM
I think it looks great. You have to go with what you have or what can afford, and the fact that you're ready to aerate for less than $100 will make your return on investment significant. Just make sure you areate in different directions and go over the aerated area alot to ensure close holes. You for sure need a core aerator, not a spike.

Regardless of your initial costs, the real proof will be in your fininshed product, and your customers and their lawns will be great references if you do it right.

Read more on topdressing, use it, and your results will look better than others that don't topdress, all other things being equal. Also check on Milorganite, a great organic fert that helps maintain a lush appearance. Listen to the experts, Kiril, ICT Bill, Phasthound, Marcos, Smallaxe, and others that slip my mind at the moment. They have a tremendous amount of cumulative knowledge, most of which is over my head, but the more you read posts by these individuals and others, the more you gain.

Good luck. You're on the right track, don't over-extend your financial resources in this environment. Keep your costs low and you should be able to do jobs for customers ar a price hard to match by those with more investment.

OUTLANDER
09-25-2009, 10:43 PM
well first off give the customer what they want, but i'd give the customer a bit of knowledge on this job first, and recommend aerating without seeding in the fall, or just holding off and do the aerating/overseeding in spring (much better results)...aerating should be done as close to grass going dormant as possible (to not stunt grass growth by damaging roots), same for spring aerating........only where in spring you can count on a long growing season ahead to get the new seed germinating. where in the fall, what seed does not germinate and mature, just rots................personally i when aerating in fall (which is the best), i include fertilizer/winterizer, or lime with.......and any seeding is in the spring.................my seeding days (new, or overseeding)is limited for the season here in ohio

Smallaxe
09-26-2009, 12:25 AM
Can't tell from the photos, are you pulling plugs from the soil or just spiking it?

That is not even a spiker... I think they market it to HOs as being the equivalent to a 'slit seeder'.

MSG... is also - "broth"...

I think I have mentioned b4... , "Never give a Sucker, an even Break".

DA Quality Lawn & YS
09-26-2009, 12:29 AM
I have had success double pass aerating, slice seeding a good seed mix at 2 lbs/K (seed in two directions, 1 lb per direction), then applying starter fert. I hope to acquire a topdress applicator in the near future to enable me to avoid slice seeding slightly thicker yards (to avoid tearing them up with the slicer), instead broadcasting seed with a 1/4 compost topdress.

Can't recommend seed for you I am afraid, not from your area.

Marcos
09-26-2009, 11:47 AM
i know guys, it really is pretty half ass, but it's the bang i got for the buck, i will run a better tow mount next week with 5/8 threaded bar, it's hard to explain but you catch my drift



just hope to see less reply's of people laughing at me lol

You indeed look quite maneuverable with that ZTR. :waving:
But I wouldn't trust that weighted-down light-duty aerator over a lot of root systems for very long.
The bouncing up & down over tree roots will probably be the beginning to the end of that set up.
I'd particularly recommend staying away from Norway maples, y'know, the ones with the shallow root systems & (often) the big burgundy-colored leaves.

JayD
09-26-2009, 07:21 PM
I do a lot of this. We also use a tow-behind core aerator, it works well. I then use a spreader to spread about 2 lbs of seed per 1000 sq/ft of lawn. My seeding price is about the same as the aeration price.

How do you come up with a price for aeration's. What is a good formula

OrangeToys
09-27-2009, 12:10 AM
I am wanting to get into the aeration so what should I look for?

theWRIGHTcut
09-27-2009, 01:09 PM
this pulls a 3" plug out of the ground and tosses it, i noticed the guy before me had installed one of the plugs backwards, so i turned it around, i'm not sure if it actually makes a difference whether they face the same way, i figured it might help me tell where I've been. what I do, is set my deck to about 3.00" so it leaves a stripe of some sort.

I can see what you guys mean about double aerating, I have really only experimented on my lawn so far, I am going to pull it across in the opposite direction next week. I'm NOT REALLY sure if I am supposed to pull slowly or what, my dad seems to think it won't function properly if i'm not going slow, but i kick it up every once in a while and it seems to do just as nice a job, although like mentioned, it's hard on the makeshift bracket I made... I'm not worried about the mower or the aerator, it's just the mount that is a little weak.
I've also noticed that going too slowly seems to overheat the wheel motors, which I am not comfortable with at all, I don't know much about hydraulic pump motors, and I haven't changed the fluid yet so that makes me nervous.

I will definitely read up on top dressing a little more...


I am going to do a before and after picture of a Softball field that I maintain, I'd like to see if after aerated in both directions it looks a little lusher? I might seed it but again, it's all research I need to do. Thanks for the tips, and responses guys!:dancing:

Ron D.
09-27-2009, 08:40 PM
I have a 4' tow core aerator that is made by Agri-Fab. It is my experience that it does a better job if I pull it slowly. I have also found that my yard needs to be well watered before I use it in order to get the proper penetration, as I have a lot of clay. I use seven 25 lb concrete blocks to add the max weight on the upper tray. If I don't have the ground wet to moist, don't use enough weight, or go too fast, it tends to walk across the surface without good penetration.

Others here can add more knowledge about whether it is ok to pull these implements with a zt mower, but I have read on other sites that it is hard on the pumps, sometimes causing premature failures. I pull mine with a little diesel tractor.

Hope this helps.

theWRIGHTcut
09-27-2009, 08:59 PM
I guess it wouldn't kill me to slowly, and i do need to get some more weight on that thing.... 2 cinder blocks isn't cutting it, I am going to wrap a bag of quickcrete in plastic many times, it's like 80lbs....


the heavier it is the deeper it aerates?


my backyard also consists of lots of clay.... luckily it retains water nicely though, and it's been raining all day so tuesday will probably be the day to aerate in the opposite direction...

Marcos
09-27-2009, 11:02 PM
I guess it wouldn't kill me to slowly, and i do need to get some more weight on that thing.... 2 cinder blocks isn't cutting it, I am going to wrap a bag of quickcrete in plastic many times, it's like 80lbs....




Find a metal shop and have them sell you a rectangular chunk of steel that'll fit perfectly above your unit.
Maybe a thick sheet of metal between 80 & 100 lb.
Also have them bore four holes near the corners so you can bolt it on with grade 8 bolts.
Maybe you've got a vocational high school around your area where kids work in a machine trades program (?)
A place like that might do it for the cost of the steel.

Then all you have to do is prime & paint it with a few coats of spray paint to match your aerator.
That'll look a hellava lot more professional than plastic-wrapped Sakrete! :waving:

theWRIGHTcut
09-28-2009, 08:23 PM
yeah i need to design a much more heavy duty mount, good point it does need to be painted, definitely...

lol, the sakrete idea is rather shabby