CO2 is green, a little off topic but worth it

[ICT Bill]

I could not belive this when I saw it in the Washington post this morning and had to share
It just came up in another thread, so it is a bit relevant

Think they have an agenda???
welcome to Washington

[Kiril]

I think the "paid for" is missing something .... namely homage to Exxon.

BTW Bill, post this in the appropriate forum please.

[ICT Bill]

I think the "paid for" is missing something .... namely homage to Exxon.

BTW Bill, post this in the appropriate forum please.

We don't have an clean coal forum on here :laugh:

[Marcos]

I could not belive this when I saw it in the Washington post this morning and had to share
It just came up in another thread, so it is a bit relevant

Think they have an agenda???
welcome to Washington

When taken in consideration the tiny, minute % of CO2 that's found in our atmosphere, CO2 could not only be considered "green", but also a "free fertilizer from the sky".

[DUSTYCEDAR]

and it shoots paint balls real nice like

[JDUtah]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2#Oxygen

[MarcSmith]

and it shoots paint balls real nice like
more importantly
pressurizes beer taps world wide...

[Smallaxe]

Anyone remember that CO2 is plant food? Anyone understand that cloudy night holds the heat, so is not so cold as a clear night? Anyone of age b4 the propaganda machine made everyone believe the contradictory lies?

The children's book, "Chicken Little" is banned in all gov't schools... :laugh:

[Kiril]

Anyone remember that CO2 is plant food?

If only it were that simple.

[Grohorganic]

more importantly
pressurizes beer taps world wide...

I dont see any green gas in my 2 beers, and wow 2 of everythings.............

[Smallaxe]

If only it were that simple.

N is about 78% of the Atmosphere and CO2 is about 3.8%. Both are plant food and part of a cycle that remains relatively constant, due largely in part to ocean plant life.
That is reasonably simple.

The bouncing back to earth diagrams are classic nonsense. Must be 2 way mirrors. It doesn't bounce off b4 entering, only bounces off after striking the earth.
That is where it becomes way too complicated, because there is no way for it to make sense.

[Kiril]

I see. So you have a complete grasp on the carbon cycle, even though no one else does?

[Smallaxe]

:laugh: OK... "It is just too complicated for the uninformed mind to grasp. You'll have to trust us that we know what we are talking about..."

Start with a false premise and everything you build on it is also false. Does the CO2 form a mirror at the outside of the atmosphere that lets sunlight in then traps it inside that barrier?
:laugh: just realized how this fits into landscaping... it works like pre-m... :laugh:

[pt03]

Whoa, this conversation is giving me flashbacks!:dizzy:

Longwave radiation, shortwave radiation, evapo-transpiration, latent heat, kinetic energy, respiration, albedo, carbon dioxide, water vapor, instability, Bergeron effect, laplacian, tephigram....... :cry:

Uggghhh!!

Lloyd:drinkup:

[Marcos]

N is about 78% of the Atmosphere and CO2 is about 3.8%. Both are plant food and part of a cycle that remains relatively constant, due largely in part to ocean plant life.
That is reasonably simple.



Simple???

The chicken-littleist, globalist, Al-gorists of this world do whatever they can to make this argument more complicated than it ever had to be...

Dop!, did I say....... "argument"?!? ;)

I guess I forgot all about Mr. Gore & his mantra "...the argument's over...",
and maybe that's because nobody remembers him participating in any actual face-to-face debate on the subject matter!! :laugh::laugh:

[Smallaxe]

Simple???

The chicken-littleist, globalist, Al-gorists of this world do whatever they can to make this argument more complicated than it ever had to be...

Dop!, did I say....... "argument"?!? ;)

I guess I forgot all about Mr. Gore & his mantra "...the argument's over...",
and maybe that's because nobody remembers him participating in any actual face-to-face debate on the subject matter!! :laugh::laugh:

Exactly... These are the same fools who can't allow firebreaks being logged off in the forests that are burning now, and every year. How much CO2 in those fires?
Algore's a patsy for the global carbon tax crowd.

I doubt anyone will ever explain the science as to how CO2 traps solar rays and reflects them back to earth. Mainly because it isn't science and that is not how it all works. But everyone believes that little diagram anyways, don't they.

[Kiril]

I doubt anyone will ever explain the science as to how CO2 traps solar rays and reflects them back to earth.

Probably not, given that is not how it works .... but don't let the facts stand in the way of your soap box. Grind on the Exxon propaganda machine.

It amazes me how many people on lawnsite have such firm "grasp" on the carbon cycle, when no one else does, even the worlds most preeminent scientists. Simply boggles the mind. :dizzy:

[Smallaxe]

Probably not, given that is not how it works ....

Thank-you for admitting that... given that is the common illustration used to show the ignorant masses that - is exactly how it works by your "preeminent scientists".

The illustration is not only misleading but is stupid as well.

Oh ... knock off the Exxon remarks for you strawman arguement... I have no more respect for them than I do Bristol Meyers and the FDA. All PC research and lying conclusions disgust me.

[Kiril]

Thank-you for admitting that... given that is the common illustration used to show the ignorant masses that - is exactly how it works by your "preeminent scientists".

What illustration?

The illustration is not only misleading but is stupid as well.

Not knowing what "illustration" you are talking about, are you basing your conclusion on your in depth knowledge of molecular physics?

Oh ... knock off the Exxon remarks for you strawman arguement... I have no more respect for them than I do Bristol Meyers and the FDA. All PC research and lying conclusions disgust me.

Call it like I see it.

[Smallaxe]

Illistration... Solar rays following arrows to the earth's surface... Arrrows reflecting back ... fom the earth's suface ... hitting the outside of the atmosphere ... and bouncing back to the earth's surface...

It's a first or third grade level - 'science' - 'FACT'. :laugh:

Am I the only one that knows what I'm talking about?????????

[Kiril]

Illistration... Solar rays following arrows to the earth's surface... Arrrows reflecting back ... fom the earth's suface ... hitting the outside of the atmosphere ... and bouncing back to the earth's surface...

It's a first or third grade level - 'science' - 'FACT'. :laugh:

Am I the only one that knows what I'm talking about?????????

Explain how it is misleading or incorrect.

http://unsweducation.wikispaces.com/file/view/greenhouse_effect.png/83618879

And first or third grade?

Please explain in terms a 3rd grader could understand how the greenhouse effect works.

[Smallaxe]

The sun warms the water vapor in the atmosphere or only reflects it? That is what your diagram is indicating...
How much water vapor in the atmosphere? compared to CO2...

Why does the air cool right after the sun goes down? Why does the suface of the soil cool right after the sun goes down?
The atmosphere is holding too much heat on a daily basis? Sorry - common sense is easier to trust, than some college playing political ping pong with an idea, that makes no sense.

Your experience, in the city, with the hot pavement not cooling down for hours, is not the worldwide norm. Here when the sun goes down, everything cools of quickly. The atmosphere is not radiating anything back to us, it is losing heat even more rapidly.

Stand a school child in the big window , during the sunlight hours, and see if they feel the heat.
Now question the child : "what is keeping the heat in the house?" By the 10th grade, even Californians should be able to give a reasonable answer. :)

[Kiril]

I think you should quit now Axe, cause you are only demonstrating you don't understand what is going on.

[Smallaxe]

I really am curious about the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere compared to greenhouse gases. I understand dry air cools quicker than moist air. Moist air holds heat longer than smokey air.

It is not rocket science. Start with a "sound premise" and deal with the basic question... Is there a guess as to how much water vapor, in the atmosphere, compared to the gases?

I say the first paragraph of Bill's article is pretty sound. Of course, these are the uneducated preeminent scientists, being quoted here.

[Kiril]

Once again, you don't understand the big picture. Lets ignore the rest of the carbon cycle for a moment .... and please go ahead and explain the difference between feedback and forcing.

And while you are at it, go ahead and explain the difference between long and short wave radiation.

[Smallaxe]

:laugh: It needs to be in context... The big picture is explained in context... A false premise distorts the big picture conclusion, especially when the major components are ignored...

The water vapor issue is huge, compared to any gas.

Madison U. just reportted record snowfall this coming winter!!! Global climate change is real!!!

We can't put together a 10 day forecast for rain , but we can put together a six month forecast for snow?!?!?
Yeah, I'm an idiot, I believe it. :laugh:

[Kiril]

If you can't demonstrate knowledge and understanding of how the process works, then how can you draw any valid conclusion? You entire argument is based on political and corp propaganda, not on any recognized science.

Are you an idiot? Keep making statements that the weather in your backyard today represents the global climate and you will make believers out of every person who reads this thread.

This is no different than your earthworm soapbox. Even when studies are done and data is collected showing the impact of earthworms on forest ecology, you still refuse to consider the possibility that it is happening.

And as far as being in context .... you should take your own advise. You are fixated on atmospheric CO2 and are ignoring the rest of the carbon cycle. Furthermore, is the current weather in MN in context here? We are talking about the planet as a whole right?

[ICT Bill]

If you can't demonstrate knowledge and understanding of how the process works, then how can you draw any valid conclusion? You entire argument is based on political and corp propaganda, not on any recognized science.

Are you an idiot? Keep making statements that the weather in your backyard today represents the global climate and you will make believers out of every person who reads this thread.

This is no different than your earthworm soapbox. Even when studies are done and data is collected showing the impact of earthworms on forest ecology, you still refuse to consider the possibility that it is happening.

And as far as being in context .... you should take your own advise. You are fixated on atmospheric CO2 and are ignoring the rest of the carbon cycle. Furthermore, is the current weather in MN in context here? We are talking about the planet as a whole right?

Kiril, don't get your panties in a bunch, it just shows the power of marketing

the advertisment that I posted should make people howl in laughter that someone could actually believe that man has had no effect on its global environment. Or that someone would pay a lobbiest big bucks to come up with that ad

It is the classic "there is nothing up my sleeve" done by magicians (while they have your attention over there they are cramming bunnies in their pocket)

Yep thats it.... it is definitely water vapor, it has nothing to do with carbon emissions, excuse me while I stick bunnies up ............Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

[Kiril]

Kiril, don't get your panties in a bunch

My panties are not in a bunch. I am just trying to understand where Axe is coming from.

[phasthound]

Kiril, don't get your panties in a bunch, it just shows the power of marketing

the advertisment that I posted should make people howl in laughter that someone could actually believe that man has had no effect on its global environment. Or that someone would pay a lobbiest big bucks to come up with that ad

It is the classic "there is nothing up my sleeve" done by magicians (while they have your attention over there they are cramming bunnies in their pocket)

Yep thats it.... it is definitely water vapor, it has nothing to do with carbon emissions, excuse me while I stick bunnies up ............Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

I think the first reaction by the majority of those who see the ad is that it's claims are absurd. The amount that lobbyists are paid for this type of misinformation is minimal compared to the monetary impact on huge corporations of how laws are written. But it's all focused on making short term profits. And we have seen in the last year what decades of that type of thinking has wrought on the economy.

Using the same thought process when dealing with environmental conditions is also catching up with us. Probably every major civilization in history has collapsed due to environmental conditions, whether or not it was brought on by their actions. None of them have come remotely close to the staggering degree of global environmental degradation modern civilization has caused.

[starry night]

Using the same thought process when dealing with environmental conditions is also catching up with us. Probably every major civilization in history has collapsed due to environmental conditions, whether or not it was brought on by their actions. None of them have come remotely close to the staggering degree of global environmental degradation modern civilization has caused.

I feel compelled to throw a Kiril-type flag here. Which major civilizations and which environmental conditions are you referring to?

"Whether or not it was brought on by their actions." So you are saying the environment maybe changes on its own?

[Marcos]

None of them have come remotely close to the staggering degree of global environmental degradation modern civilization has caused.

Or instead, could it be that today's all-encompassing, hyper-fast & (generally) liberal-leaning global media has effectively brainwashed a healthy % of the gullible masses into believing exactly what they want them to believe? :rolleyes:

[Stillwater]

The wife's 09 Z06 puts out more co2 then the entire Lawn care industry, I hated the price tag. But I absolutely love how it pisses off the tree hugging actors next door.

[ICT Bill]

The wife's 09 Z06 puts out more co2 then the entire Lawn care industry, I hated the price tag. But I absolutely love how it pisses off the tree hugging actors next door.

Actually you would be surprised how well the converters on the cars work these days, you would probably not die from C02 poisoning by putting a tube in the tail pipe, in the window and closing all the windows

You may die from lack of oxygen, but not from C02 poisoning
You are pissing people off in your own mind, the mind is a terrible thing to waste

[Shane100]

I like these type of adds. At least they make people question what others claim is fact. Truth is the process is undeniably complicated. I also think it has more to do with politics than facts. I believe the science can be made to show which ever outcome you desire. Just to many variables. If you could look only at proven facts from an unbiased point of view you would most likely have a hard time coming to a conclusion. My problem with the debate is that one side says they are trying to save the planet while the other is made out to be evil greedy polluters. So the obvious choice for the lay person is to side with the environmentalist. If you are interested in the opposing view I recommend following this link.

http://www.john-daly.com/hockey/hockey.htm

John Daly was obviously a non believer who I think was looking for the truth. Here is a link to his website.

http://www.john-daly.com/

[replenish&subdue]

Anyone read the book,GREEN HELL. This is that.

[Stillwater]

Global warming, Lots of facts, with a butt load of disputed facts. Their is 1 undisputed fact though hiding that no one talks about. The earth currently is between ice Ages it is called the interglacial period. That is a fact and geologists do not dispute this. So the worlds governments can cap and tax until they turn green but their is going to come a time in the distant future when man kind will be scrambling for a way to warm the earth if we are still hear.

Their is a bright side for the people who look at life as a glass 1/2 full as apposed to 1/2 empty, at this time mankind is not capeable of effecting perminate damage upon the earth the only damage taking place now or in the future is to mankind's immediate environmental needs. Mankind's presents on the earth is not even a blip on a radar screen and our time hear will never be a blip on the earths geological time clock. In the meantime the wife is going to continue to drive her ZR1 Blue devil.....

[NattyLawn]

Global warming, Lots of facts, with a butt load of disputed facts. Their is 1 undisputed fact though hiding that no one talks about. The earth currently is between ice Ages it is called the interglacial period. That is a fact and geologists do not dispute this. So the worlds governments can cap and tax until they turn green but their is going to come a time in the distant future when man kind will be scrambling for a way to warm the earth if we are still hear.

Their is a bright side for the people who look at life as a glass 1/2 full as apposed to 1/2 empty, at this time mankind is not capeable of effecting perminate damage upon the earth the only damage taking place now or in the future is to mankind's immediate environmental needs. Mankind's presents on the earth is not even a blip on a radar screen and our time hear will never be a blip on the earths geological time clock. In the meantime the wife is going to continue to drive her ZR1 Blue devil.....

I think I can speak for most everyone here and say I don't care what kind of vehicle your wife drives.

[Stillwater]

I think I can speak for most everyone here and say I don't care what kind of vehicle your wife drives.

Good that is a excellent and respectful attitude. Their are allot of good and reasonable posts hear, and I would like to hear comments on priorities. Most reasonable people care about the environment and would like to see some improvement. The route the UN wants to take the cap and trade some call it the cap and tax, Obama wanting to tax the American coal industry into bankruptcy, wow we actually have that comment on video tape. their are some massive economic changes coming to America screaming down the pike right now in the name of global warming and I believe that although some have merit others are extreme and clearly in the best interest of a minority.

[Smallaxe]

If you can't demonstrate knowledge and understanding of how the process works, then how can you draw any valid conclusion? You entire argument is based on political and corp propaganda, not on any recognized science.

Are you an idiot? Keep making statements that the weather in your backyard today represents the global climate and you will make believers out of every person who reads this thread.

This is no different than your earthworm soapbox. Even when studies are done and data is collected showing the impact of earthworms on forest ecology, you still refuse to consider the possibility that it is happening.

And as far as being in context .... you should take your own advise. You are fixated on atmospheric CO2 and are ignoring the rest of the carbon cycle. Furthermore, is the current weather in MN in context here? We are talking about the planet as a whole right?

The effect of atmosperic warming and cooling, is largely dependant on water vapor. The little bit of gases is certainly not a major factor, by comparison.
The atmospere is an enclosed area for water vapor, not to heat. The oceans warm from the sun plus the geo thermal vents of incredibly hot temperatures even under the Arctic sea. The oceans are a major contibutor to the weather over each continent.

Blaming the exessive hot from the sun, due to increased sunspot activity, on peoples' SUVs - is straining at gnats. It is funny to make people believe that we are in control of the planet and can control the future of the Cosmos. Of course it is even more fruitful to use that belief system to get them to pay a global carbon tax for global gov't and believe they will work to save the world.

Never give a sucker an even break...

BTW... Earthworms in forests data - were 2 pictures of the forest floor in a spot up in MN. With elementary logic in this elementary textbook, they pushed the "conclusions" of these "studies" on the elementary students.

Earthworms aerate the soils and move OM around the root zones of anything growing there. Forest plants are not disturbed by the blending of the 'horizons' but their most critical moment is at germination time. Most of the time that means - in the mulch layer.

However this elementary logic would have you believe the pretty forest wildflowers cannot grow in the woods any more, because the woms are effectting the soil underneath the the fallen leaves. They are mixing it and making it richer. They eat dead stuff and take it into the soil. !!!
Am I to believe that they eat up all the fallen leaves and therefore destroy the seedbed b4 these wildfowers have a chance to germinate and grow??? Whoever these preeminent scientists are - they are definately - educated beyond their intelligence. :)

[Kiril]

The effect of atmosperic warming and cooling, is largely dependant on water vapor. The little bit of gases is certainly not a major factor, by comparison.
The atmospere is an enclosed area for water vapor, not to heat. The oceans warm from the sun plus the geo thermal vents of incredibly hot temperatures even under the Arctic sea. The oceans are a major contibutor to the weather over each continent.

Axe, you clearly don't understand how the greenhouse effect works, so why do you pretend to? I asked you to explain the difference between feedback and forcing, and if you did that you would see where you are wrong.

Long story short .... the picture is accurate as depicted.

[Stillwater]

I think the "paid for" is missing something .... namely homage to Exxon.

BTW Bill, post this in the appropriate forum please.


Their is a paid for statement lower right corner very bottom.

[Marcos]

Global warming, Lots of facts, with a butt load of disputed facts. Their is 1 undisputed fact though hiding that no one talks about. The earth currently is between ice Ages it is called the interglacial period. That is a fact and geologists do not dispute this. So the worlds governments can cap and tax until they turn green but their is going to come a time in the distant future when man kind will be scrambling for a way to warm the earth if we are still hear.

Their is a bright side for the people who look at life as a glass 1/2 full as apposed to 1/2 empty, at this time mankind is not capeable of effecting perminate damage upon the earth the only damage taking place now or in the future is to mankind's immediate environmental needs. Mankind's presents on the earth is not even a blip on a radar screen and our time hear will never be a blip on the earths geological time clock. In the meantime the wife is going to continue to drive her ZR1 Blue devil.....

:clapping:

As far as world energy is concerned, all 3 should be considered simultaneous tasks:

#1) It's all about making efficient use of our existing resources.

#2) It's all about managing improvements in existing non-renewable energy technology as they come on-line.

#3) It's all about seeking out, implementing, & giving precedence to renewable energies 1st that make the most sense in terms of being the best in all around cost-efficency to the world's consumers.


"Global climate change" isn't in anyone's hands but Mother Earth herself.
We're standing right between two ice ages right now, and gullible hoards of lemmings on the Left choose to follow Chicken Little instead of the common sense they (supposedly) were born with.

That's alright.
Let 'em.

This global climate change insanity will pass in less than 5 years from now anyway once it becomes widely known the polar bear population in the Arctic has actually been on the increase! :laugh:

[Smallaxe]

Axe, you clearly don't understand how the greenhouse effect works, so why do you pretend to? I asked you to explain the difference between feedback and forcing, and if you did that you would see where you are wrong.

Long story short .... the picture is accurate as depicted.

There is understanding and there there is Understanding. I don't waste much energy understanding how CO2 is Huge in the effect of global climate. It is like wasting time understanding how the Earth is still producing its own energy and EMF after a few Billion years. Its fairytale fiction and isn't even close to a sensible reality. If there was a glimmer of real science involved I would take an interest.

[Kiril]

I tell you what is a waste of time .... this thread .... but then that is what you get when you judge the validity of science based on political ideology.

[Marcos]

Originally Posted by Kiril
Axe, you clearly don't understand how the greenhouse effect works, so why do you pretend to? I asked you to explain the difference between feedback and forcing, and if you did that you would see where you are wrong.



There is understanding and there there is Understanding. I don't waste much energy understanding how CO2 is Huge in the effect of global climate. It is like wasting time understanding how the Earth is still producing its own energy and EMF after a few Billion years. Its fairytale fiction and isn't even close to a sensible reality. If there was a glimmer of real science involved I would take an interest.


Forcing?
Kiril should be quite able by now to give week-long seminars on the subject of "Forcing".

For as long as he's been a member of lawnsite he's been 'forcing' the left-wing-based concept of global sustainability down the throat of virtually everyone he comes across thru his non-stop yammering about how "compost does a soil good", and how others' organic concepts / programs are inferior!
Maybe if the profit derived from compost application was a major factor of his family income in lieu of his current irrigation interests, he wouldn't be living & dreaming in Utopia as he obviously is right now.

[Kiril]

Another "informed" post from someone who judges the validity of science from a political soapbox. The insecure and uninformed are always the ones with the shrillest voices.

[Marcos]

Huh?....:confused: What's the topic of this thread, again? :laugh:

[Stillwater]

If they don't stop the silly arguing I am going out to the dock and start the boat then to the garage and start all the cars and let them sit and idle for the afternoon.

[phasthound]

If they don't stop the silly arguing I am going out to the dock and start the boat then to the garage and start all the cars and let them sit and idle for the afternoon.

My truck, aerator and top dresser are idling as we speak. ;)

[ICT Bill]

My truck, aerator and top dresser are idling as we speak. ;)

Well rev those bad boys up so we can hear it down here in Maryland, maybe they won't be able to type over the noise

HEE HEE, we need some diesel in here too

[pt03]

I run this 4 cylinder diesel tractor (http://www.flickr.com/photos/laj2006/3953702709/)at idle to drive the hydraulics for the escalator, does that count?:)

Lloyd:canadaflag:

[phasthound]

Wait a minute..........
If I'm idling my equipment, does that make me a left wing Communist or a right wing Nazi???????
Somebody help me with this one. :rolleyes:

[starry night]

Wait a minute..........
If I'm idling my equipment, does that make me a left wing Communist or a right wing Nazi???????
Somebody help me with this one. :rolleyes:

Idling, right. Idle, left.

[phasthound]

Idling, right. Idle, left.

Oh crap! :)

[Stillwater]

Idling, right. Idle, left.


Thats funny as hell !!

[ICT Bill]

Idling, right. Idle, left.

That's the way I play golf, marching golf. LEFT..RIGHT...LEFT...RIGHT

PT03 thanks for the diesel, so far it has shut them down, I think I can here it

[Kiril]

If they don't stop the silly arguing I am going out to the dock and start the boat then to the garage and start all the cars and let them sit and idle for the afternoon.

Who is arguing? I'm simply trying to establish why Axe thinks the picture is wrong. If you are going to question the science, then at least have some valid reasons and science to back it up.

[starry night]

Isn't our problem here is that we are arguing theory? If this were established science, then there would be no argument. You are more the scientist than most of us, Kiril. It is easy for you to sit back and say that we don't understand the science. But, apparently it's not so easy for you to show us the proofs,

[ICT Bill]

Who is arguing? I'm simply trying to establish why Axe thinks the picture is wrong. If you are going to question the science, then at least have some valid reasons and science to back it up.

You are now irrelevant because we can't hear you !! We brought the diesel in and it peaked the decibel range

We have effectively drown out the Marcos/Kiril machine, may you rest in peace
Please find another channel

[ICT Bill]

Yahooooo, I can't hear them anymore, WHEEEEEE

[starry night]

Sorry for my "interference". :)

[phasthound]

You are now irrelevant because we can't hear you !! We brought the diesel in and it peaked the decibel range

We have effectively drown out the Marcos/Kiril machine, may you rest in peace
Please find another channel

I think they made themselves irrelevant and drown themselves out.
I can almost hear the collective groan when they start at each other.
Enough already.

[Kiril]

Isn't our problem here is that we are arguing theory? If this were established science, then there would be no argument. You are more the scientist than most of us, Kiril. It is easy for you to sit back and say that we don't understand the science. But, apparently it's not so easy for you to show us the proofs,

I don't believe the science behind what causes the greenhouse effect is in question by anyone, which if I am not mistaken, has been under study since the early 1800's. This is what Axe was railing about being inaccurate. Proof of this is in molecular physics and how certain gases interact with longwave radiation.

With respect to global warming, I am not qualified to say if it is happening or not, nor is anyone on this forum. I may be qualified to review certain areas of environmental science (soil science, hydrology, plant biology), which can contribute to AWG, but you will almost never see anyone here commenting, or even recognizing these areas .... because it doesn't fall into the political discussion arena. For them, it is all about politics, money, oil, and "hot" topics ... witness the many rants on this site with respect to the issue.

Long story short, you find much "opinion" here, most of it based in political ideology, and very little on the science. There has been a massive amount of study on different factors that can contribute to AWG and all findings are worthy of consideration. The mere thought of dismissing the science because findings don't fall into a particular political camp is more than absurd.

Any field of study that looks at the impacts of humanity on the environment is applicable to AWG and that includes all the research and study that is behind the landscaping/turf industry.

[Kiril]

You are now irrelevant because we can't hear you !! We brought the diesel in and it peaked the decibel range

We have effectively drown out the Marcos/Kiril machine, may you rest in peace
Please find another channel

Bill .... who posted this topic in the wrong forum? :nono:

[Kiril]

I think they made themselves irrelevant and drown themselves out.
I can almost hear the collective groan when they start at each other.
Enough already.

Barry, I am not going to play the Marcos game anymore, he can play his games all he wants.

This is no different that any other thread where people present "information" or "opinions" without substantiation. I am only asking for clarification to what Axe was saying. Are we allowed to do that here, or should we accept everything that is posted here as truth even when it is clearly wrong?

[Smallaxe]

Isn't our problem here is that we are arguing theory? If this were established science, then there would be no argument. You are more the scientist than most of us, Kiril. It is easy for you to sit back and say that we don't understand the science. But, apparently it's not so easy for you to show us the proofs,

Bingo...

Why bother... :)

[starry night]

I love this forum. I'll miss you guys. Heading off for a five-day vacation in
beautiful. tropical Central Pennsylvania. First vacation for me and Mrs. dirtandhoops in ten years. :waving:

[Kiril]

Bingo...

Why bother... :)

That what I am wondering Axe? You still haven't explained why the image is incorrect. How the greenhouse effect works is not in question is it? If you want to comment on the science that concerns determination of the relative contributions of greenhouse gases and how they can potentially impact the global climate, please do so with scientifically valid arguments, not political opinions. Why is that so much to ask for?

Now if you want to question the science behind the determination of how the totality of the gases work together to generate climate ... then you have something to talk about.

So here you go Axe, read then comment if you wish. Personally, I am not qualified to comment on these papers because I am not a physicist.


http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/bibliography/related_files/emf9101.pdf

http://www.atmos-chem-phys-discuss.net/3/3205/print-redirect.html

http://www.met.utah.edu/skrueger/5210/radiation2.pdf

[ICT Bill]

fingers in ears
nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah

[pt03]

I'll miss you guys.

You could always re-load.:)

Lloyd:canadaflag:

[Kiril]

fingers in ears
nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah

Then why did you start this thread if you object to discussion of the topic?

[Marcos]

Barry, I am not going to play the Marcos game anymore, he can play his games all he wants.



:clapping:

Good! It's a deal!!! :waving:
And I'll too be more than happy not play the "Kiril game" !! :terribletowel:

But for ####'s sake, for the last time...PLEASE leave in peace individuals on lawnsite who DECLARE their contentment with their individual organic and/or 'traditional' fertilizer programs.
Nobody wants to see anyone come on randomly in the middle of discussion about sulfur coated urea or corn gluten with a stock post like ...."compost does a soil good".....do they? No! :nono:

It's a different story when there're newbies asking lots of basic Q's about fertilizer & soil fertility, obviously.
In those types of threads, really, anything could come & go from anybody.
So why don't you hover around the newbie forum for awhile?
I'll bet over time you'll find plenty of carrion to feast upon there! :p

[Grohorganic]

Nobody wants to see anyone come on randomly in the middle of discussion about sulfur coated urea or corn gluten with a stock post like ...."compost does a soil good".....do they? No! just me I like it, and think its funny:waving:

[Kiril]

just me I like it, and think its funny:waving:

A compost does a soil good never hurt no one. Best dang thing you can do for your soil and landscape to boot ... wooot. Guess I need to start posting that sweet phase again.

[phasthound]

I don't see "compost does a soil good" as a false statement or one that should disrupt anyone's peace.

[Smallaxe]

That what I am wondering Axe? You still haven't explained why the image is incorrect. How the greenhouse effect works is not in question is it? If you want to comment on the science that concerns determination of the relative contributions of greenhouse gases and how they can potentially impact the global climate, please do so with scientifically valid arguments, not political opinions. Why is that so much to ask for?

Now if you want to question the science behind the determination of how the totality of the gases work together to generate climate ... then you have something to talk about.

So here you go Axe, read then comment if you wish. Personally, I am not qualified to comment on these papers because I am not a physicist.


http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/bibliography/related_files/emf9101.pdf

http://www.atmos-chem-phys-discuss.net/3/3205/print-redirect.html

http://www.met.utah.edu/skrueger/5210/radiation2.pdf

Water Vapor in the atmosphere is huge and micro gases are nominal. I have little or no respect to all things 'political' and the fools who follow the lies on TV News.
Science is not the issue in global warming.

If it was...

Wouldn't all the aspects involved in understanding climate be thoughtfully discussed??? or would we be chasing CO2 like it was the end all of everything???

Hyperbole and stupidity, surrounds the 'science' of evolution, pre-m and climate change. Not real science at all.

[Kiril]

I have little or no respect to all things 'political' and the fools who follow the lies on TV News.

Then why are you perpetrating them on this forum? I presented several papers so you could address the science and have a meaningful, thoughtful, discussion, but what do you do .... more of the same.

Wouldn't all the aspects involved in understanding climate be thoughtfully discussed??? or would we be chasing CO2 like it was the end all of everything???

Ummmm, they are .... however you choose to listen to the propaganda instead of reading the actual science involved.

[JDUtah]

Wowsers, I guess we should expect the last 7 pages though. lol

I always wondered where the idea came from that greenhouse gasses blocked solar radiation only when it was leaving the earth... one way... do they line up all nicely or something?

... ... ...

[Kiril]

Wowsers, I guess we should expect the last 7 pages though. lol

I always wondered where the idea came from that greenhouse gasses blocked solar radiation only when it was leaving the earth... one way... do they line up all nicely or something?

... ... ...

And once again, define the difference between long and short wave radiation and you will have answered your own question.

[Marcos]

A compost does a soil good never hurt no one. Best dang thing you can do for your soil and landscape to boot ... wooot. Guess I need to start posting that sweet phase again.

Game on! :waving:

[ICT Bill]

Game on! :waving:

..........CAR ! :waving:

[JDUtah]

..........CAR ! :waving:

lol classic! :laugh:

[muddstopper]

I could not belive this when I saw it in the Washington post this morning and had to share
It just came up in another thread, so it is a bit relevant

Think they have an agenda???
welcome to Washington

Here is a little bit of info to stir the pot a little bit.

http://www.cropking.com/node/81
http://www.reeis.usda.gov/web/crisprojectpages/207137.html
http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/4949/1/JSIR%2065(11)%20859-866.pdf
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-15128944.html