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mcw615
09-27-2009, 10:42 PM
I have taken the Allan Block courses for hardscaping and know how to build a wall just have not done one yet. Got a call for a wall probably 4-6 feet tall and 40 feet wide. Have no idea how to price this thing profitably.

Hanau
09-27-2009, 10:49 PM
Pretty simple:

Material (with or without mark up, I use 15%)
+ Labor (I use a shop rate of $200/hour)
+ Machine Time (these can be your machines or rentals)
+ Overhead (What does it cost you to be in business?)
+ Profit (I shoot for 60%)
= Total price

Good luck, work safe, have fun.

mcw615
09-27-2009, 11:11 PM
Pretty simple:

Material (with or without mark up, I use 15%)
+ Labor (I use a shop rate of $200/hour)
+ Machine Time (these can be your machines or rentals)
+ Overhead (What does it cost you to be in business?)
+ Profit (I shoot for 60%)
= Total price

Good luck, work safe, have fun.

We mostly service lawn and landscape maintenance, landscape projects, and irrigation. Our general labor is $40/man hr. I am guessing estimate how many man hours it will take to complete the project like I bid landscape projects and then add costs for specialty equipment, materials, etc. but I don't have any experience with building walls to know an average time it will take to complete the project. I guessing anywhere from 60-80 man hours, but again I want to bid it right.

Hanau
09-27-2009, 11:18 PM
Guess: It would take me and my 2 guys about 75 manhours to construct this wall to ICPI standards, I would figure another 10 hours on the mini-ex and 20 hours on the MT 55.

Assuming free and clear access. If you have to take down fence or crane materials over a house factor that in.

Since it's over 36" don't forget to add in your engineering costs.

mcw615
09-27-2009, 11:31 PM
Are you saying a total of 75 man hours or 75 hours X3 guys? The location is on a hill. On the customers driveway there is a very steep slope, they got a price from a local large company to build the wall about 10-12' tall to make it flush with the driveway, they priced it at 15k. She said it is too much, ha. I say this because they have a million dollar house, which is their secondary house! Husband is a dean of a law school at a fairly large university here in VA, they are both attorneys for however many years, they are in their mid to late 50's, they own a huge attorney office in south florida they have about 10 top of the line attorneys and their office who only rep. celebrities, NFL football teams, big basketball teams such of chicago bulls, lakers, etc. so they stay on airplanes more than I do in my mowing truck. And she told me she was awed when they came back with a price of 15,000 because she can buy some sort of car at that price, she said in her head she was thinking 5-7. I said we can build the wall about 4-6 feet high to decrease the angle of the slope to be able to put some plantings there so I think I can get the job between 4-6k. The rest of the yard from where the wall would be built is on a slope but nothing as steep.

Now when you said engineering, are you saying doing your own CAD drawing or getting an actual engineer to blue print the project?

Hanau
09-27-2009, 11:40 PM
Over 36" you need to have a civil engineer sign off on the design per the International Building Code. Costs me minimum $800 to do that.

Without seeing, measuring, and having first hand knowledge of the project my best guess is 75 man hours. Or 25 hours for each of us.

That being said we have our own excavator, dump truck, MT55 and a whole bunch of other equipment to do this with.

ALLPro Landscaping
09-27-2009, 11:42 PM
If its a normal not odd ball wall, then I price it buy the square face foot, but I always leave a little extra, other wise if their is more involved then its time plus material then a markup for profit

mcw615
09-27-2009, 11:43 PM
Okay so I was in the ball park area of 60-80, figured it would be on the higher side because it will only be about an 8 course, and working on a hill. Getting the first 2-3 layers level is the hardest part and what takes the longest in my opinion.

Hanau
09-27-2009, 11:46 PM
Getting it level is the easiest part. Use a Topcon to level your gravel sub-base before you compact it. Once it's within a few thousandths of an inch of being perfectly level start slinging block.

Are you using Geo Tex and glue?

mcw615
09-27-2009, 11:52 PM
I have never done a wall before, I just figured it would take the longest of time getting the base level. What model Topcon do you use? Just googled the item, hoping to push hardscaping more next year

mcw615
09-27-2009, 11:58 PM
What would you charge labor wise per sq. ft?

Hanau
09-28-2009, 12:02 AM
RL-H3C is what I own. Not too fancy, but it's accurate. Indispensable for patios, if you're going that route as well.

ALLPro Landscaping
09-28-2009, 12:08 AM
If you never did a wall, then do you even know how, its not as easy as everyone thinks, not to be a you know what, but you want to do it right, if you dont you can count on it either sinking or collapsing, and I can guarantee your getting a phone call. If you can and know someone who does wall, ask if you can come out and see one they are building, and maybe jump in and get a feel of what your doing.

ALLPro Landscaping
09-28-2009, 12:10 AM
also you are always going to looses out on your first wall or what ever you are doing, its learning, just make sure all your cost are covered, youll need a machine, brick geo grid, depending on height, glue, and alot of it, and your base material, make sure you add 20% of everything for mistakes. Believe me its worth the extra money, it all depends on what brick you have what company, whats the area like your are doing the install, Ive seen prices any where from 15.00 per square face foot to 100 per face foot,

mcw615
09-28-2009, 12:11 AM
If you never did a wall, then do you even know how, its not as easy as everyone thinks, not to be a you know what, but you want to do it right, if you dont you can count on it either sinking or collapsing, and I can guarantee your getting a phone call. If you can and know someone who does wall, ask if you can come out and see one they are building, and maybe jump in and get a feel of what your doing.

I took the Allanblock certified installer course. I'm not saying I will master my first wall, I'm sure it will take me quite a bit longer to go back and check my book etc and double check everything and have to stop think and figure out stuff but I feel comfortable with doing it.

Hanau
09-28-2009, 12:16 AM
If you don't own one line up a mini-ex w/ a thumb from whatever rental yard you're using. Believe me, that thumb will come in so handy on a project like this.

mcw615
09-28-2009, 12:21 AM
What are you using a thumb for?

ALLPro Landscaping
09-28-2009, 12:31 AM
If you feel good about your self then go for it, since this is your first wall, then just go with time and material, get all your block figured, and don't forget to add more then what you think you need, and the same with the base material, more is good, I cant stress that enough. Then after all the material is added up, just figure what you need to cover your guys, then add a little for your self. get through your first wall before stressing your self out with the different ways to do your pricing. Remember you get paid last, so make sure everything is covered then add for your self, if you dont make 10 grand on the job who cares, you have to start some where, once you get done with this one, you will go home have a beer and think of everything you did wrong, and guess what now your more prepared for the next one.

ALLPro Landscaping
09-28-2009, 12:33 AM
one more thing, CALL THE BUILDING DEPT and make sure their are no permits required and MAKE SURE you dont need an engineer, believe me you dont want problems

Hanau
09-28-2009, 12:38 AM
Use a thumb for all kinds of stuff. Ripping out roots, moving a bunch of block at once, breaking up pallets, there's limitless uses for a thumb. To the point where I won't buy or rent an ex without a thumb.

ALLPro Landscaping
09-28-2009, 12:40 AM
you know what I think the thumb is so common, every rental place by me has them on all their machines, going back to so many uses like hanau said

Hanau
09-28-2009, 12:45 AM
You get a good operator and on a high wall he can pick a single block off the pallet and hand it up to the man laying em down.

SOSMANinOHIO
09-29-2009, 09:45 PM
what model topcon do you use?