Need Help! Tree Identification

[chemi392]

I have a tree in my front yard that was installed two years ago when I built my house. Unfortunately I was not left with any information on what was planted in my yard including the tree, and have no idea what it is. I have had some people who claim to know a lot about trees, and nobody has been able to tell me what this thing is.

My main reason for wanting to know is that I have been babying this tree for the last two years, and it constantly looks awful. I'm hoping that after finding out what it is, and with some research, (and help from everyone on this board :-) ) I can get this thing healthy.

Below are links to some pictures of the tree.

Thanks for any and all help!

http://www.shawnblackburn.com/media/tree.png
http://www.shawnblackburn.com/media/leaf.png
http://www.shawnblackburn.com/media/leaves.png

[RAlmaroad]

Although you're a little too far west, chances are that you have a "Blackgum". The leave growth near the twig isn't growing properly for a "Willow Oak" but the leaves and branch pattern sure look like them. Could you include a photograph of the bark and just a closer up of a small clump of the leaves showing where the leaves attach themselves to the twigs?

[tamadrummer]

The leaf looks a bit like a "live oak" but the bark is too young for me to tell yet.

[RAlmaroad]

The leaf looks a bit like a "live oak" but the bark is too young for me to tell yet.

Yes, that is why we need a close up of the bark. "Live Oaks" are very close to the "Willow Oak" or Water Oak as they're called in SC--Same Tree. Those long branches from the center trunk are marks of the "Willow Oak" where as the "Live Oak" seem to have a spreading habit from the ground up. I have one on my property that is 60'+ across the canopy. Good observation.

[chemi392]

Thanks for your help. Here are some additional pictures.

http://www.shawnblackburn.com/media/bark.png
http://www.shawnblackburn.com/media/bunch.png

[Marcos]

That's no black gum tree.
That's got to be an oak of some type based solely upon the extreme prostrate twig structure & alternating leaf pattern.
As you can see in this link, the twig structure looks quite a bit different than Black Gum a.k.a. Black Tupelo, etc:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyssa_sylvatica

We don't have live oaks up here but I've seen two willow oaks at Spring Grove Cemetery & Arboretum here in Cincy.
Your leaf is too wide to be a willow oak.
So I'll place my bet on live oak. :waving:

[chemi392]

Based on the little research I've done since your post, I've read that a live oak should have leaves on it all year, but mine does not. Are all live oaks evergreens?

[Marcos]

I have a tree in my front yard that was installed two years ago when I built my house.

My main reason for wanting to know is that I have been babying this tree for the last two years, and it constantly looks awful. I'm hoping that after finding out what it is, and with some research, (and help from everyone on this board :-) ) I can get this thing healthy.



You might want to get a professional soil test to see what the pH level is in & around your oak tree.
Oaks typically like to have their feet in soil that's on the ACID side, to varying degrees depending upon the species.

Here's something I found that may be of interest to you:
http://www.onlinetips.org/planting-live-oak.

Around here in S Ohio there are a lot of pin oaks that suffer from chlorosis, or a 'yellowing' of the leaf margins between the veins which can kill the tree if not addressed.
The soil here is generally somewhat alkaline, meaning the pH is on the higher side & the soil is clay-based.
So a lot of professional tree people & landscapers have been trying to remedy this specific problem here on established trees by vertical mulching using micronutrient supplements + fertilizer meant to help curb chlorosis in pin oaks, the micro-supplements being mainly iron & manganese.

More on vertical mulching:
http://www.bloomingarden.com/verticalmulch.html

You may not need micro-nutrients for YOUR oak tree; but you may indeed need vertical mulching if nothing else to help improve water percolation from the surface to the roots which of course could potentially help improve the tree's overall root expansion.
And if a soil test indicates a need for soil amendments to lower pH ( like split-pea sulfur, or organic products like Holly Tone or cotton seed meal), you can use these vertical holes as injector holes for these amendments, so long as you thoroughly mix them in with the peat moss, sand and/or pea gravel. :waving:

[Marcos]

Based on the little research I've done since your post, I've read that a live oak should have leaves on it all year, but mine does not. Are all live oaks evergreens?

From the link I sent you:

"Live oaks are called by their name because they retain their leaves throughout the year in the southern parts of their native range. In the northern parts, live oak trees are deciduous..."

[chemi392]

Thanks for the help. I am bound and determined to get this thing healthy, and you're information is very helpful. Looks like I'll be renting a 3" auger on the way home from work today. :)

[ron mexico75]

My bets on it being a Water Oak boys......Quercus nigra

Look at the link pics and then look at his pick.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_nigra


Also, whoever said earlier that a Live Oak and a Water Oak are the same tree are wrong. In addition, a Willow Oak and a Water Oak are very similar. The water oaks leaves are a bit wider where willow oaks are thinner looking.

I think I'm right. :drinkup:

[RAlmaroad]

Yes it is a Water Oak. I have both Live Oaks that spread in the canopy and many Water Oaks. Water Oaks shed their leaves in late fall and winter while the Live Oaks retains their leaves until the spring when new growth pushes the old growth off. They are a pain to keep up just as the grass is beginning to come out of dormancy. They (Water Oaks) are also setting acorns now. There are a few Willow Oaks here and there in SC but nothing like the Water Oaks. They sprout from those acorns by the thousand and have got to be mowed even when the grass has gone dormant. Yet another pain. Hope this will help. To help your tree out: begin by pruning away a some of those thin branches and developing a main structure to the tree. Keep any suckers cut away and pruned back for the scaffolding to develop and get thick. It will take a long time to get a nice tree but if you leave it un-pruned it will get thick and bushy. Go for about 4-5 main limbs from that seemingly good straight trunk. Fertilize inside the drip line with a good all-purpose fertilize including some zinc.

[Marcos]

Thanks for the help. I am bound and determined to get this thing healthy, and you're information is very helpful. Looks like I'll be renting a 3" auger on the way home from work today. :)

It'll make a huge difference, particularly if the soil in your lawn is clay-based.

[Marcos]

My bets on it being a Water Oak boys......Quercus nigra

Look at the link pics and then look at his pick.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_nigra


Also, whoever said earlier that a Live Oak and a Water Oak are the same tree are wrong. In addition, a Willow Oak and a Water Oak are very similar. The water oaks leaves are a bit wider where willow oaks are thinner looking.

I think I'm right. :drinkup:

Hmm...
You may very well be correct.

If it is indeed a water oak, here's a much more comprehensive spec sheet:
http://hort.ufl.edu/trees/QUENIGA.pdf

This spec sheet indicates that water oaks should be quite adaptable to wet areas, but often will develop chlorosis (yellowing) within the margins of the leaves in higher pH soils.
This is the reason why knowing the results of soil test is a really good idea before you go about adding split-pea sulfur or cotton seed meal into the soil to gradually lower the pH.

The spec sheet also is somewhat vague about water oak's specific pH preferences, indicating some tolerance of both alkaline AND acid soil.
So this tells me that you should be shooting for a pH range in a year or two between about 6.5 to about 7.2.
Or in other words, 'neutral'.

[Kiril]

Not a good choice for a street or lawn tree. IMO, cut it down and plant something more appropriate.

[Marcos]

Not a good choice for a street or lawn tree. IMO, cut it down and plant something more appropriate.

Now there's a curve ball coming from the ol' peanut gallery! :dizzy:

Kiril, do you see any overhead wires along the street in the pictures the fellow from OK City posted?!? :confused:

[benjammin]

Now there's a curve ball coming from the ol' peanut gallery! :dizzy:

Kiril, do you see any overhead wires along the street in the pictures the fellow from OK City posted?!? :confused:

Not a good choice for a street or lawn tree. IMO, cut it down and plant something more appropriate.

Regardless of overhead power lines, cut that thing down. It will never look good. The leaves don't turn colors, just drop, twice a year, along with acrorns. I've got "native" water and willow oaks that I'm gradually hacking up. Eventually I'll get them all from around the edge of the grass and house and replace with some maples.

[Kiril]

Kiril, do you see any overhead wires along the street in the pictures the fellow from OK City posted?!? :confused:

Is power lines the only thing you consider when choosing an appropriate street tree?
Guess it must be amateur hour here.

[Marcos]

Is power lines the only thing you consider when choosing an appropriate street tree?
Guess it must be amateur hour here.

I was an amateur with trees when you were still sucklin' on you' momma.

[Marcos]

Regardless of overhead power lines, cut that thing down. It will never look good. The leaves don't turn colors, just drop, twice a year, along with acrorns. I've got "native" water and willow oaks that I'm gradually hacking up. Eventually I'll get them all from around the edge of the grass and house and replace with some maples.

The trend around here at least is to get away from the 'same old same old' set of trees that's been traditionally offered by this region's landscape architects & designers.
For decades it seems, all that's been grown in commercial nurseries around here for "street trees" have been assorted varieties of red maple, Norway maple, sugar maple, honeylocust, linden, grafted pear, purple ash & white ash.
Now that a lot of folks have come to realize the long-term detriments of Bradford pear (particularly) in terms of high winds & limb breakage :cry:, they're hopefully going away or be replaced with newer pear varieties MUCH less prone to breakage.
And the dreaded emerald ash borer coming in from the north will be killing off all the untreated ashes around here soon enough. :cry:

Some of the 1st trees to come into the limelight a decade or so ago from the wholesale nurseries that were somewhat new to alot of local landscapers are the oaks.
First, the Red Oak
Then not too long after that...

Bur oak
Chestnut Oak
Chinkapin Oak
Sawtooth Oak
Post Oak
Swamp White Oak
White Oak
And they're being put into places where the broken Bradford pears and borer-ridden ashes once stood.

And it's not just oaks that are new to front yards & streets! :waving:
There's also
Siberian Elm (blight resistant)
London Planetree (improved Sycamore)
Cottonless cottonwoods (proven to be male, without the noxious seed)
Sassafras
Hackberry, improved varieties
Hickory
Serviceberry
Tulip poplar
Ginkgo

[benjammin]

Some of the 1st trees to come into the limelight a decade or so ago from the wholesale nurseries that were somewhat new to alot of local landscapers are the oaks.
First, the Red Oak
Then not too long after that...

Bur oak
Chestnut Oak
Chinkapin Oak
Sawtooth Oak
Post Oak
Swamp White Oak
White Oak
And they're being put into places where the broken Bradford pears and borer-ridden ashes once stood.

And it's not just oaks that are new to front yards & streets! :waving:
There's also
Siberian Elm (blight resistant)
London Planetree (improved Sycamore)
Cottonless cottonwoods (proven to be male, without the noxious seed)
Sassafras
Hackberry, improved varieties
Hickory
Serviceberry
Tulip poplar
Ginkgo

Ok, great.
Cut down that water oak and replace with one of the above.

[Johnagain]

Water oak root systems rot very easily and then they come down taking anything they can with them. Yours looks bad at this young age so rot has probably started, so in a few years you can just remove the fallen tree from your house and replant with a better choice of oak.