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jhlinc
05-04-2002, 03:04 PM
I am biiding a job for a paver driveway. I need to remove 5" of existing cracked concrete(950 sq.ft.) which has rebar and heavy duty mesh. and replace with pavers. Some areas need to be raised 6" from existing concrete level due to settling. I was thinking of charging $11 per sq. foot do you think this is a fair price? Its a good customer. They called unilock and were told expect to pay $10 sq. foot with concrete removal.

AGLA
05-04-2002, 03:21 PM
Are you including removal of the driveway with $11/SF?

I think that is about 25 tons of disposal material. I don't know what you have to haul it and load it or what your dump fees are, but these would make a serious dent in $11/SF. The pavers are going to cost you around $3 /SF to buy, throw in base material...I don't know who could pull this off for $11/SF.
I would estimate the concrete removal by the time you think that it will take. any equipment rental, blade costs, and disposal fees. Tell them the what you are basing that on and that it is an ESTIMATE.
Then give them a solid price of $x for the installation of such and such pavers including x" of whatever compacted base material, graded for proper drainage. Don't tell them how much per SF or how many SF there is...just the price. Hopefully it is worth more than $10 per SF.

PAPS
05-04-2002, 09:42 PM
That $11.00 sq/ ft. for the entire job including pavers installed sounds good to me using Unilock pavers ($1.79-2.00 sq/ ft ones), AS long as you have the proper trucks/equipment to rip that driveway up, thats a fair/competitive bid in my book. It wouldn't hurt though to throw a $12-13 sq/ft at them first and see what they say....
(Concrete removal = $5.00 a ton by me, not a big deal AGLA)

DaveK
05-04-2002, 11:58 PM
$11.00 per sq ft is at the low end around here. And that would NOT include removing concrete. With rebar and mesh, it's even more difficult. Although it wouldn't add more than about 5% to 10%


Don't tell them how much per SF or how many SF there is...just the price. With a tape measure and simple math, they already know the price per sq ft.



Concrete removal = $5.00 a ton by me, not a big deal I have a ton of concrete to be removed..... if you are only going to charge me $5.00, I'll even buy you lunch. Oh wait, I have more like 4 tons, here's a Twenty.

PAPS
05-05-2002, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by DaveK


I have a ton of concrete to be removed..... if you are only going to charge me $5.00, I'll even buy you lunch. Oh wait, I have more like 4 tons, here's a Twenty.

When did I say I was only going to charge $5.00 a ton to remove concrete?? I said that the $11.00 /sq ft. was a decent bid INCLUDING removing the concrete driveway BECAUSE its CHEAP to dump concrete at $5.00 a ton. Instead of being a smart a**- know it all, you should learn how to read and interpret people posts, and make intelligent-constructive comments.

Lanelle
05-05-2002, 08:42 PM
Hold on PAPS. Here is what you said: Concrete removal = $5.00 a ton by me, not a big deal AGLA. Frankly that is open to some interpretation. I could think that means you will do concrete removal for $5.00 a ton. And if its not a big deal, why are you fussing so? Since there is rebar and mesh to cut up, seems like it would take a little more time than it sounds like you were figuring.

PAPS
05-05-2002, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by Lanelle
Hold on PAPS. Here is what you said: Concrete removal = $5.00 a ton by me, not a big deal AGLA. Frankly that is open to some interpretation. I could think that means you will do concrete removal for $5.00 a ton. And if its not a big deal, why are you fussing so? Since there is rebar and mesh to cut up, seems like it would take a little more time than it sounds like you were figuring.

I said the whole job for 11.00 a sq. was a good price including the removal of the concrete.. then said that concrete removal was $5.00 a ton. The 11.00 a sq./ ft said it all about the price of the entire job.
Removing concrete is nothing that a Bobcat and a Mini-excavator couldn't handle... very simple...

DaveK
05-06-2002, 12:23 AM
(Concrete removal = $5.00 a ton by me, not a big deal AGLA) ^-- right there you said it.

... then said that concrete removal was $5.00 a ton. ^-- and again here.


Instead of being a smart a**- know it all, you should learn how to read and interpret people posts, and make intelligent-constructive comments. I did read and interpret your post, perhaps your words didn't clearly explain your thinking. Now I am even more confused by your words. Do you charge $5 per ton to remove concrete or not?

It wasn't my intention to be a smart a$$, just a little light-hearted ribbing. I do like to have fun and laugh a little at times.

PAPS
05-06-2002, 09:06 AM
dumping concrete = $5.00 a ton, THEREFORE to dump 25 tons is NOT a big deal in terms of $$$ expense. SO, on a $11.00 sq. ft job X 950 sq. ft. = $10,450.00, to dump the exisitng concrete driveway WILL NOT BE A HUGE EXPENSE, and IS NOT A BIG DEAL.

DaveK
05-06-2002, 09:19 AM
PAPS

Around here there are concrete crushers where concrete can be dumped for free. So there is no expense.

But of course you would charge for the removal, right?
There are labor and equipment expenses for the removal and transportation. How much would you charge for the removal per ton? Or are you saying that the expenses are so low that you wouldn't charge any more than if there were no concrete to be removed, and just charge for the installation?

BRL
05-06-2002, 08:07 PM
I just did a similar job, except we just prepped it for asphalt to be put down by an asphalt company instead of putting down pavers. The old concrete driveway was about 700 square feet and 4" thick in most spots. It was old and poured right onto top soil so there was no stone base under it. There was minimal wire mesh and only a few pieces of steel pins (not really rebar). It was a bear of a job. It came to around 70 tons of disposal concrete in 3 tri axle loads (we widened it, so there was some soil included in that). I was using a 590 Case Extendahoe and there was no way we could have broken up the concrete with any type of Skid Steer or smaller back hoe tractor. We only got an electric 90 Pound Hammer for up close to the house where we couldn't just smash away with the hoe. Maybe newer concrete isn't so strong, but other concrete demo jobs I've done in the past were much easier because we were using the right equipment. If I ever do a job like that again we will rent an air compressor and a real jack hammer (the correct tools for the job). If you have that, then maybe you can get away with a skid steer, as long as it has the reach to load the trucks you use (the 590 could barely reach over the tri axle's sideboards & he didn't want to remove them, a skid steer still couldn't reach over with out the sideboards). So my costs for the removal (equipment, labor, trucking, back hoe) came to over $26.00 per ton of removed material, or $2.60\sq. ft.

There are plenty of people around here throwing down pavers for under $10.00\sq. ft. and I have no idea how they do it. Except they must be cutting serious corners because those are usually the ones that are buckled after a winter has gone by, so the customers for the most part are getting what they paid for, from what I've seen. I've only done small (100 - 250 sq. ft.) jobs so far, so I would imagine that with a larger volume job like this one the price would come down a little per sq. ft. Except that with this one being a driveway you need a deeper base. For a job that size I would think $11.00\ sq ft would be good if I was just removing soil, or asphalt which breaks up easily, but I would add more for removing the concrete driveway.

PAPS
05-06-2002, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by DaveK
PAPS

Around here there are concrete crushers where concrete can be dumped for free. So there is no expense.

But of course you would charge for the removal, right?
There are labor and equipment expenses for the removal and transportation. How much would you charge for the removal per ton? Or are you saying that the expenses are so low that you wouldn't charge any more than if there were no concrete to be removed, and just charge for the installation?

No.. I would charge extra for LARGE QUANTITY concrete removal...BUT someone said that there would be 25 tons of concrete to remove on that 950 sq. ft job, at a messily $5.00 a ton to dump = $125.00 is jack on a $10,000 job. Even if it was 70 tons as mentioned above = $350.00, I probably would tack on an extra $1000.00-$1200.00 on top of my 11.00 a sq. price. But if its only 25 tons as the person above estimated... its peanuts of an expense to dispose... is what i was getting at. On a messily 25 ton removal.. i would include that in the $11.00 a sq/. ft estimate... but at 70 tons.. i would tack on like an extra $1000.00 - $1200.00 for the removal... would rip that concrete with our excavator and run a truck back and forth to the quarry... done deal

paul
05-06-2002, 10:42 PM
Having torn out 1000's of sq ft of concrete along with curb (b12-16 is the worst) We get $2-$5 per sq. ft. , curbs run $5 to $7 per running foot. We aloways hcarge this as a seperate line item with the following notes, Rebar and certain renforcement with concrete may cause the price to increase. Removal that intail cutting of the renforcement rods or removal by cutting slabs will increase price. Until we get x-ray equipment that is portable and cheap price will vary!

DaveK
05-07-2002, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by PAPS


No.. I would charge extra for LARGE QUANTITY concrete removal...BUT someone said that there would be 25 tons of concrete to remove on that 950 sq. ft job, at a messily $5.00 a ton to dump = $125.00 is jack on a $10,000 job. Even if it was 70 tons as mentioned above = $350.00, I probably would tack on an extra $1000.00-$1200.00 on top of my 11.00 a sq. price. But if its only 25 tons as the person above estimated... its peanuts of an expense to dispose... is what i was getting at. On a messily 25 ton removal.. i would include that in the $11.00 a sq/. ft estimate... but at 70 tons.. i would tack on like an extra $1000.00 - $1200.00 for the removal... would rip that concrete with our excavator and run a truck back and forth to the quarry... done deal
I may be slow, but I still don't think I understand.
For 25 tons (mentioned above as the figure you were going by) you would charge $125 in addition to the $10,450 for the install. And the $125 only pays for the disosal cost. So in effect, you would be doing the labor and transportation fees of the removal of the concrete for free.
But if it's 70 tons, you would tack on $1000 to $1200. And $350 goes for the disposal fee, and now you are actually charging $650 to $850 for the removal. Now you are making sense (and dollars). :)

PAPS
05-07-2002, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by DaveK

I may be slow, but I still don't think I understand.
For 25 tons (mentioned above as the figure you were going by) you would charge $125 in addition to the $10,450 for the install. And the $125 only pays for the disosal cost. So in effect, you would be doing the labor and transportation fees of the removal of the concrete for free.
But if it's 70 tons, you would tack on $1000 to $1200. And $350 goes for the disposal fee, and now you are actually charging $650 to $850 for the removal. Now you are making sense (and dollars). :)

Yea kinda... I wouldnt insult a customer on a $10,500.00 job and be like... "Excuse me sir.. I need another $125.00 for concrete removal... I would just include it"

DaveK
05-07-2002, 11:54 PM
No one said to have a seperate line item for that. By all means, include it, IF it is a minor expense.

The point was that you simply cannot remove 950 sq ft of rebar reinforced concrete and cover all your expenses at $5 per ton or $125 total. That wouldn't even pay for the labor. There are more expenses involved than just the disposal fee at the dump (or wherever). And any time you are paying for labor or equipment, you need to make a profit, or at least break even. In this case, if you don't at least recoup your expenses on the removal, the $11.00 ends up more like $10.50 or less per sq. ft. for the paver install.

SCAPEASAURUSREX
05-09-2002, 04:00 PM
I think what PAPS was trying to say was that where he DUMPS his concrete, they only charge $5.00 per ton.. That s just the dumping fees, not labor to remove and haul it to the dump.. That labor is incl in your sq ft price.. I would have my sq ft price for the INSTALLATION of the pavers as one thing then as another line item I would have the demolition and removal / haulling of the existing concrete...

DaveK
05-10-2002, 08:01 PM
Yes, I see that. But the impression that was given was that his ONLY expense was the DUMP fee of $5 per ton AND that it was such a minor expense, he wouldn't even charge for the removal at all. At least for not for 25 tons, but at 70 tons, he would charge $1000.

The point I was making is that the concrete isn't gonna make it to the dump on it's own, somebody will have to remove it, and load it, and transport it, and then dump it. These are all expenses, even if it is only 25 tons and the install is 950 sq ft.

(Concrete removal = $5.00 a ton by me, not a big deal AGLA)
BUT someone said that there would be 25 tons of concrete to remove on that 950 sq. ft job, at a messily $5.00 a ton to dump = $125.00 is jack on a $10,000 job. If $125 is your ONLY expense for the removal.

would rip that concrete with our excavator and run a truck back and forth to the quarry... done deal Expenses!

MJ LANDSCAPING
08-29-2002, 09:48 AM
Thats about right. $10. a sq. ft. to remove the old concrete. We do stamped concrete as a service and when we rip out a walkway or recently a driveway we charged $10.a sq ft. They charge you about $3. a ton to get rid of it .

SIG
08-30-2002, 12:06 PM
Geez, He said he would not charge the $125.00 dump Fee. He already figured in other expenses in his total Sq. Ft. Price. Pretty Simple.