Signed contract but no work!

[Greenguy1]

We submitted a proposal for sprinkler system to a friend of former employee and had it signed, now the employee is gone and the homeowner will not honor the signed contract. We offered a 10% buy out but so far nothing, on last phone call we rec'd verbal statement "sue me" and then sent registered letter for 10% or aqpprox. $450, still nothing, is 10% too much? I feel we tried to mitigate, also they said that some Medical bills will not allow them to honor contract, with no mention of former employee firing. We also sent them a new contract to sign for postponing the project till next Spring. still nothing any suggestions?

[LawnGuy73]

If this person is trying that hard to get out of the agreement why would you want to even do the work. He'll most likely try to stiff you anyway...:waving:

[Littleriver1]

Being from Mi. It makes sense. Your Gov. and the union probably showed him the way. I say give it up and move on. Your lucky to get out this cheep.

[rm25x]

If you haven't done any work for him as of yet, and he has told you he doesn't want the work done now I would just move on. It is starting to seem like harassment.

[White Gardens]

Being from Mi. It makes sense. Your Gov. and the union probably showed him the way. I say give it up and move on. Your lucky to get out this cheep.

Agreed, cut your loses and minimize your headaches.

Do you have any supplies bought for the project ???? That would be the only reason I would try to get any money out of them.

[topsites]

I'd have to agree, move along, I realize it's not your fault but I'd leave that one alone.
I would just be glad you got fair warning this time before any of the work had got done lol

Do you have any supplies bought for the project ???? That would be the only reason I would try to get any money out of them.

Even then I would first see if those supplies can't be used elsewhere because...

It happens to me, too, I get stuck with supplies that I bought but I just hang on to them until the next job comes along.

[cooltype]

i think yall are missing the point that a signed contract does obligate tehm to pay and allow the work to be completed. they already obligated a portion of your schedule that could have been filled by another job so basically they took away income from you. If you can prove that you could sue them for whatever you would hav made of the job. Atleast thats what i got out of my business law class. Not that I would push it i can see i prob wouldnt want to do the work cause they would be a real pita. i cant imagine doing work for somebody i am forcing it on but i wouldnt mind getting dome $$ outta them and not do the work :)

[Scagguy]

Considered it a bid that was lost. It's not worth the hassles. Unless you purchased materials for this job, then all you have lost is some time and gas. It happens all the time. You never get 100% of the jobs you bid. It's a cost of doing business. Let it go and move on to the next project.

[topsites]

i think yall are missing the point that a signed contract does obligate tehm to pay and allow the work to be completed. they already obligated a portion of your schedule that could have been filled by another job so basically they took away income from you. If you can prove that you could sue them for whatever you would hav made of the job. Atleast thats what i got out of my business law class. Not that I would push it i can see i prob wouldnt want to do the work cause they would be a real pita. i cant imagine doing work for somebody i am forcing it on but i wouldnt mind getting dome $$ outta them and not do the work :)

Yes, but you'll hurt your business reputation playing it rough like that, too.
Then it isn't as simple as it looks either...

They "submitted a proposal to a friend of a former employee (and now the employee is gone)..."
You see, it's starting to sound like it's another in the long line of "he said / she said" deals.

Once things get that complicated it's best to just write it off as well, thou I do see your point.

[rflawnman]

judge Judy, here I come................

[White Gardens]

Even then I would first see if those supplies can't be used elsewhere because...

It happens to me, too, I get stuck with supplies that I bought but I just hang on to them until the next job comes along.


That's the beauty of it. Sure your stuck with supplies that were absolutely specific to a project, then you can use them again somewhere else. You're really not out much, just the headache of storing the supplies.

In my contracts, I specify a request of a deposit, and I will refund that deposit minus materials and labor performed up to the stoppage point of the project.

That way I'm not stuck with material that I might not use for a while, and I don't want to stock it if possible.

[Greenguy1]

I have always rec'd a deposit of 1/2 except this time. It says right on the contract that 1/2 payment due on signing and before work commences. As far as reputation the project is in a town that I never work in about 40 miles away. Why do we have contracts if they are not enforced, In the past I have thrown out contracts that people would not honor but they were small like $500 in fact I will not write a contract for less than $500 anymore, It is to easy to just walk away. I think to me it is more principal, especially when he said "sue me" he seems cocky. With winter setting in soon I will have time to sue him, and no I do not want the work anymore, as we do not have a trusting business relationship, I honor all contracts that I sign... Cell phone satellite, internet etc.etc.etc. and if I didn't they would sue and win. Thanks for your inputs.

[CALandscapes]

If the case was that the clients weren't paying you, I could then understand your frustration... But not honoring a contract?! Cut your losses and walk away. You obviously have too much time on your hands if you're making such a big deal over this. Use the time you're wasting on this matter to go out and search for jobs that will actually pay.

[anotherturfgeek]

I don't step foot on any property unless 100% of supplies are paid and 50%-85% of labor is paid up front.
In this economy, you must adopt/incorporate payment in advance in all contracts...

[Big Bad Bob]

I don't step foot on any property unless 100% of supplies are paid and 50%-85% of labor is paid up front.
In this economy, you must adopt/incorporate payment in advance in all contracts...

Around here there have been a few scammers out and the consumer groups are telling people to never, ever make a deposit to a contractor. Any contractor. They are making it very difficult for those of us who are being honest. Now, if we ask for a deposit from a new customer, we are looked on with suspicion. We sometimes have to show business license and tax license before they make a deposit. It is a pain and even at that some people just assume we are scammers because we ask for deposits and move on. It's mostly the families of elderly people who are the worst. They are only trying to protect theirs but it is still a pain.

[Greenguy1]

I would never start a job without 1/2 down unless the customer was a regular and even then we require it, and most ask to. What happens is they will hold you hostage to any one little thing, in other words they will hold back $5000 for a $10 dollar deficiency, which is illegal and can be fought in court but that will cost you money and time so they have the hammer, and the only way to cure that is to get MONEY DOWN and state final payment due upon completion.

[Stillwater]

We submitted a proposal for sprinkler system to a friend of former employee and had it signed, now the employee is gone and the homeowner will not honor the signed contract. We offered a 10% buy out but so far nothing, on last phone call we rec'd verbal statement "sue me" and then sent registered letter for 10% or aqpprox. $450, still nothing, is 10% too much? I feel we tried to mitigate, also they said that some Medical bills will not allow them to honor contract, with no mention of former employee firing. We also sent them a new contract to sign for postponing the project till next Spring. still nothing any suggestions?

what have you decided to do move on the the next install?

[Greenguy1]

Stillwater, I did not understand your reply.

[Stillwater]

Stillwater, I did not understand your reply.

sorry about that, I was wondering what you have decided to do.

[Cross Cut]

What good is a contract that requires a 50% deposit if you don't collect the deposit?

[fool32696]

At signing I get my 50% and at that point I'm holding the cards, not the customer.

[Greenguy1]

I am thinking I will sue as the home owner suggested, It doesn't seem that most on this site would agree, Again I don't understand the use of a contract that is not enforced, If I were to say that I didn't want to do the Job after signing my own contract, (it is always signed by me before submitting) then the homeowner could hire someone else and sue me for the difference,and most probably would if they thought they could get a few easy bucks.

[JB1]

I am thinking I will sue as the home owner suggested, It doesn't seem that most on this site would agree, Again I don't understand the use of a contract that is not enforced, If I were to say that I didn't want to do the Job after signing my own contract, (it is always signed by me before submitting) then the homeowner could hire someone else and sue me for the difference,and most probably would if they thought they could get a few easy bucks.


sounds like a good winter project.

[topsites]

I am thinking I will sue as the home owner suggested, It doesn't seem that most on this site would agree, Again I don't understand the use of a contract that is not enforced, If I were to say that I didn't want to do the Job after signing my own contract, (it is always signed by me before submitting) then the homeowner could hire someone else and sue me for the difference,and most probably would if they thought they could get a few easy bucks.

No, it's that most of us had to learn, one way or the other, that there exist ways to sign contracts and then...
Because contracts can and will be broken, not that we should accept this but just saying, too.
Granted, he signed it of his own free will but you had this ex-employee doing it, look here...

For all we know those two agreed on some "perks" and worked out some sort of little backhanded deal
where the homeowner's getting a bunch of extra stuff thrown in and the employee gets a little "cash" under
the table, all of this behind your back and I realize this doesn't help right now, but you understand...
Because that, sick as it may sound, wouldn't surprise me at all, that's one possible reason why he signed in the first place.

Now that he's out of the picture, suddenly the HO realizes the sweet part
of the deal is off and he's not interested anymore but here's the problem...
He PROBABLY never WANTED the dang system!
Instead your ex-worker foisted it on him?
Then again we don't know for sure, could have been a case of someone wanting something for nothing.
In which case your ex-worker got the hint and the two conspired.
And to close the sale did something he should not have done.
Which, you fired him, I'm guessing that's a good thing thou it also plays part in my above assumption.

What I'm getting at is the fault here lies with the ex-employee, either as much as with the HO, or not with the HO at all.

That, of course, I was thinking about this yesterday...
If it wasn't for the HO saying "sue me" to your face like that, because I know how that would make me feel,
now it's almost like just for that and then wanting to get to the bottom of this :p

I probably still wouldn't do it, but I don't think I'll fault you for it.

[Cross Cut]

Don't take this the wrong way I am not trying to be a smart a.. Didn't you violate your own contract when you did not collect 50% as stated in your contract? Would that fly in court?

[Greenguy1]

The homeowner was directed to pay 50% upfront on the contract that he signed, and after signing he did not pay 50% as down payment, which in itself was a breech of contract.

[txgrassguy]

Dude, you are in for a very enlightening experience in front of the Judge.
Basically, no $$ changing hands to solidify the contract, no breach exists realistically.
The fact that an ex-employee brokered this contract means IF and I mean a BIG IF, you actually make in front of a Judge, this ex-employee will have to testify.
So now you are in front of a Judge with no existent breach of contract and awaiting specific testimony from a fired employee = you loosing and quickly.
Face facts, despite having a piece of paper with a purported signature (you DID witness the client's signature, didn't you?), no money changed hands, you went out and acquired material in breach of your own contract stipulation, and now want a Judge to administer a finding in your favor????
Whatever your smoking, I'd like some.

[Greenguy1]

TX lawn dude, clearly you don't understand...Dude, the ex-employee had nothing to do with the contract other than being an employee, and as a matter of fact we have 2 signatures one from the husband and one from the wife. From what I gather you being a bronze member in 2 years, you must spend more time on this site than you do in the field. Stay in your profession!

[Cross Cut]

When was the downpayment discussed? Before or after he signed? What did your employee/agent say to the HO about not paying? Was it noted on the contract?
In a former life I flew often. I can recall buying tickets and having 24 hours to cancel the transaction without penality. Does the HO have a right to change their mind after signing?

There should be a Judge Judy type show based on business cases.

[txgrassguy]

Typical response, you screw up your own contract, ask for opinions then cry when the opinions you receive aren't to your liking.
As far as my profession, I have worked in the state of Michigan building a multi-million dollar golf course and have direct experience in contract matters, arbitration and judicial actions.
Your original post clearly identifies the previous employee as being involved in the negotiation phase and as such the previous employee will be called to testify.
All you have at this point is a written intent with no defined action to solidify - meaning no money exchanged hands. As such, this may be interpreted as an implied contract but the one salient point you cannot get around no matter how much you whine is no money changed hands. As a direct action in your own contract a deposit had to be received, none was so you do not have an enforceable contract.
Regarding my posts, this just means I am more efficient running my business than you - at a minimum I am not soliciting answers to a perfunctory question then whining about the responses.

[Greenguy1]

Crosscut, the contract states in bold print that there is a down payment due upon signing, and about the ex-employee, he has nothing to do with my Irrigation division, he was assigned to the lawn maintenance dept of my Co. and was only a friend of the HO. he recommended my Co. because he knew that we did top notch work, because that is what I expect from all my employee's, the reason I discharged him was because of insubordination, In no way related to the Irrigation contract.

[Greenguy1]

TXgrass guy, It is too cold up here for ya, and I don't speak spanish sooo I will stay here in MI. anddddddd.......

[Stillwater]

The homeowner was directed to pay 50% upfront on the contract that he signed, and after signing he did not pay 50% as down payment, which in itself was a breech of contract.

No it is not....

[topsites]

I think probably the hardest part about asking a question here, is some of us
may tend to have a way with words that might not be the most appealing,
so then things might come out a bit 'as is,' or rough around the edges.

But the advice is good, I've been in the same situation of wanting something to go my way because I felt
that's how things should be, and to this day I do not believe that I was in the wrong, however the situation
was similar to yours in that the easiest answer was to move along, find something else to do.
But, I couldn't...

Maybe I should say I didn't want to, but it doesn't matter.

Because I waited to get the answer I wanted (must've been 20 telling me to back off and this 1 said go) and...
I'll let you form your own conclusion as to what happened next.

Looking back I'm guessing some of us, we just have to learn some things the hard way.

Either way I wish you the best of luck.

[Cross Cut]

I spoke with a friend that has some experience in these matters. The contract had conditions. One that a deposit be paid. No deposit was paid therefore, conditions were not met.

Hypothetical- you sign a lease for an apartment that requires first months rent in advance. You do not have the money. Have the conditions been met to the lease the apartment?

Have you spoke with your attorney? What does he suggest? I am interested in the outcome. BTW I would probably sue the guy just because of his attitude.

[procut]

I would just move on. The judge will probably say the same.

[Tom3982s]

Honestly ift hey are having money issues, it is best to eat it and move on. End the aggravation...

[Greenguy1]

It looks like I have taken this as far as I want, No fight in court, I never liked Vestaburg anyway and this HO just reminded me why. There were some good points brought up and many were very professional some not so (like referring to me as "dude") I have been in the Green industry too long to be talked down to by some unknown from Texas, so in closing this thread thanks for all the professional and courteous inputs and I hope we all gained something from this, I only lost my wages to my sales associate, the cost of doing business and if the HO hadn't said to sue him I would have walked away sooner.

[Charles]

The end:waving: