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Dirt Boy
10-04-2009, 11:09 AM
First off, I DIDN'T DO IT!!

A friend put in a paver patio, and sidewalk for one of his customers, I did the digging out, put fill, back in, packed, sand on top, he laid all the pavers.

My question is this: the soldier row along the outside (is that redundant?) is not what I would call very stable. Is this normal?

Base material extends out past the edge, at least 6".

I am doing the finishing up work, laying sod, putting rock up to one side, etc. and if you are not careful, you can loosen/tilt the ones along the edges fairly easily.

Materials were all from Menards, and the edging was their steel type.

Thanks

AztlanLC
10-04-2009, 11:50 AM
Is this edging the ones that looks like "L" shape with spikes every foot or so or just straight with steel spikes every 4' or so?
Were the pavers compacted and sand apply to the joints?
What's the depth of the sand?
When you said fill what type of materials exactly are you referring to?

Stillwater
10-04-2009, 01:26 PM
your soldiers regardless of edging used should be reasonably stable they should not be excessively "easy" to displace and no they are not redundant. I see 2 issues in my mind without even looking at it, lack of attention to compaction of base material at the edges and/or improperly installed edging. its an easy fix

Dirt Boy
10-04-2009, 08:44 PM
Well, I'm pretty sure the underlying base is compact, (at least I went over it with a borrowed compactor from another guy that does this sort of stuff) and I know there was aprox. 1" of bedding sand, as for the remainder, I wasn't there, so I don't know.
I guess I was wondering about the edge retainer quality, they do come up on the pavers about 1 1/2" and they are steel, guessing 14 ga. aprox. and they are staked down good, and setting on the base material.
I would like to get into doing this, and this is my first "on-the-job" experience of any sort, but it don't seem quite like it's right.

Regards

Isobel
10-05-2009, 12:07 AM
what was the base material, the stuff under your bedding sand?

Dirt Boy
10-05-2009, 12:30 AM
utilzed what is called "3/4 crusher run" limestone. This is a mix of 3/4 and smaller particles of limestone.

Depth varied some, but was at least 6" thick
put it in in 2" layers (aprox.) and then packed with plate compactor (stone? I think was the brand name; 2500) several directions, and kept working up to proper height.

Bru75
10-05-2009, 01:02 AM
Were the pavers compacted after installation?

Dirt Boy
10-05-2009, 01:22 AM
I'm assuming so, and for the most part they seem to be sitting solid. What he did it with, I don't know, I, again am assuming, he rented a packer as he has done before.

I am not a pro at this, just want to be, and overall I am not too impressed with this outcome. Outside edge kind of waves back and forth in places, and when I filled in along the edges with dirt, sod, etc. if you weren't careful, you could tip the edge paver loose.
Just seems like the edge restraint isn't very tight against the pavers and holding them tight like I would assume they should.

Just trying to learn what a "good" job would mean.

Dirt Boy
10-05-2009, 01:24 AM
I'll take some pic's tomorrow if I can and let you see.

Dirt Boy
10-05-2009, 10:57 PM
Here's some pic's for your review.

Bru75
10-06-2009, 12:24 AM
Looks to me like he installed one side with a stringline and just let the other end up wherever it ended up.
Pull up all the crooked pavers and edging, re-lay them straight and re-sand and compact and you should be fine.
If polysand was used it will be more difficult to remove the pavers in question.
For future reference, throw in a few curves for a more interesting look.

Stillwater
10-06-2009, 12:39 AM
without getting into critiquing the work just tweak few the pavers that are clearly not just right install the sod/mulch and call it good. address any isues the customer has right away you will be fine.

White Gardens
10-06-2009, 09:19 PM
I've used steel colmet edging for a small 1 x 1 aggregate block patio.

I had one small piece that was in my curve and it settled simmilar to the same situation in the picture.

What I figured is that the mason sand I used found a void in one spot where two sections meet and the sand also settled in a couple of areas on the other edges.

Fix the lines, re-set the soldiers, and make sure your poly sand fill between the edging and the soldiers. I think that would solve your problem and make the soldiers more solid.

White Gardens
10-06-2009, 09:20 PM
I've used steel colmet edging for a small 1 x 1 aggregate block patio.

I had one small piece that was in my curve and it settled simmilar to the same situation in the picture.

What I figured is that the mason sand I used found a void in one spot where two sections meet and the sand also settled in a couple of areas on the other edges. I didn't use poly sand as my joints were extremely tight between the blocks.

Fix the lines, re-set the soldiers, and make sure your poly sand fill between the edging and the soldiers. I think that would solve your problem and make the soldiers more solid.

Edit:

Wanted to add that when I did use that same type of steel edging, I noticed that I was degrading the sand against my edges as the steel can sometimes be a bear to install.

Dirt Boy
10-06-2009, 10:45 PM
Thanks for all the replies.
You can critique if you wish, I didn't do it, and am just trying to learn, so that when I do do it, I can minimize the mistakes.

tturbonegro
11-19-2009, 07:52 PM
first off the soliders are usually ran the other way..side by side not end to end...and about 18" to the right of the soliders in that last picture there is a line that runs wayyyy too long without being broken up...

Stillwater
11-20-2009, 04:09 AM
yep, that edging pattern is called a Stretcher. That running line is a possible optical illusion

seascapes
11-21-2009, 11:38 AM
first off the soliders are usually ran the other way..side by side not end to end...and about 18" to the right of the soliders in that last picture there is a line that runs wayyyy too long without being broken up...

I agree the soldier course is going the wrong way and the pattern is wrong. we don't use any of the steel or plastic reinforcement we use mortar and cement edging made on site. Something has to wrong with the base underneath the pavers. 1" of sand is a bit much in my eyes also. Take more time set the base closer and use less sand. :hammerhead:

Bru75
11-21-2009, 06:06 PM
Actually, that is a sailor course (laid end to end like this: --------), a soldier course is laid side by side, like this: IIIIIIIIIIIIIII.
Why would an inch of sand be too much? It's what I use and seems to be pretty much standard.

White Gardens
11-21-2009, 06:21 PM
I agree the soldier course is going the wrong way and the pattern is wrong. we don't use any of the steel or plastic reinforcement we use mortar and cement edging made on site. Something has to wrong with the base underneath the pavers. 1" of sand is a bit much in my eyes also. Take more time set the base closer and use less sand. :hammerhead:

Funny you mention the mortar restraint for the pavers. I have come across a couple of existing small sidewalks with this type of restraint. What has happened is that the pavers in the center were as installed and the soldier or sailor course has sunken inward as it seems the mortar did not let them move independently.

With that said, you are in Florida and you don't have the frost/heave issues as we do in IL. If I lived in your area I would be putting a mortar restraint on everything out of principle.

Also, I couldn't tell you if the previous sidewalks that I seen were actually done correctly or not. All I do know is that they were done in the last 15 years and by reputable companies in the area.

So with that, locally I've talked to some other guys and they all seem to agree that the plastic snap edging is sufficient to help the pavers move correctly, and that if installed correctly, with the correct spikes, then they will last just as long.

I also agree with you about the sand. I like to use 1/2 rails to screet and I feel it just enough, but not too much.

Dirt Boy
11-21-2009, 11:53 PM
So, is a "sailor" course bad wrong, or just perhaps not preferable.
I can see where it would be less stable, and more inclined to cause a problem.
But on a fairly narrow sidewalk, a soldier course would maybe look a little odd, I don't know, 3' wide walk, probably should have a different design to make it look better.

nylandscapepro
11-22-2009, 11:54 AM
There is nothing wrong with a sailor course vs. a soldier, we install a sailor course on occasion depending on the pattern we decide to go with, but the standard width for a walk is 4' I wouldn't suggest going any narrower than that. I would suggest going to icpi.org and printing out their study material for the certification class and read it over it will tell you step by step what you should be doing. I would also suggest using a plastic edging like beast or snap edge

Bru75
11-22-2009, 02:25 PM
Yep, nothing wrong with sailor or soldier, I was just pointing out the difference in appearance. It's more of a design/personal preference thing.