Angies List >> an "A" from customer & "F" from non-customer

[mdvaden]

Here's some feedback on Angies List, where I only keep a free account, but have not paid into their system yet. Also want to mention, I emailed to them that if they have a reply of their own to add here in 200 words or less, I'll post it.

Anyhow, some months ago, a new customer gave me an "A" rating on Angies List for about $500 worth of pruning.

This last week, someone I don't know, emails for an estimate. For starters, our contact page says to call on the phone for estimates, and that the email is for pre-existing customers sending images and stuff.

Short version: I wrote back that we generally offer free estimates as long as other estimates acquired for landscape or pruning work are from licensed contractors. This other person did not like our offer for a free estimate based on that premise, and filed a basically F-all-the-way report on Angies List.

I've got at least 2 letters from that company in the last year regarding investing in their outfit, and this scenerio won't be leading me any closer to signing and mailing a check.

[lawn]

i did not understand anything you've said, sorry

[mdvaden]

i did not understand anything you've said, sorry

The shortest translation:

Two people posted a report about my company on Angie's List.

One person whom I met and worked for, posted an "A" which is the best.

Last week, someone I never met or worked for, also posted a review about my company. They posted an F, which is the worst. They emailed for an estimate implying to just go onto a property and look at the trees. I replied an offer for a free estimate on Saturday, provided that any other estimates acquired for the same trees are coming from licensed companies. They did not like the offer for a free estimate, and went over to Angies List to post a negative review.

[LushGreenLawn]

I don't understand the part about the "company" sending you two letters asking you to invest. Is the customer the company, and they are trying to get you to subcontract? Or is the company Angies List itself.

If the company is the customer, contact your lawyer, as filing a negative review under false pretense is a form of slander.

[2 clowns mowing]

i hear what your saying last friday we got trashed by a long standing customer which said they would never deal with us again. that same customer takes 3 months to pay and i have an outstanding job to do for them which i should cancel. thinking about collecting a down payment and waiting 3 months to do it. this customer has always been happy with everything we do and now this i could scream!

[mdvaden]

I don't understand the part about the "company" sending you two letters asking you to invest. Is the customer the company, and they are trying to get you to subcontract? Or is the company Angies List itself.

If the company is the customer, contact your lawyer, as filing a negative review under false pretense is a form of slander.

Just promo mail stuff, at points during the year. Sort of like when varous banks send out mailings with offers or for business.

On another note ....

Can say that Angie's List was prompt on replying.

I got one email that had been forwarded in their own company. So since yesterday, two of their people had already reviewed my email, and one followed up by contacting me back.

We talked on the phone, and they plan to send my comments to other pertinent people in their company.

One of my bigger concerns, was that in the last report, the bad one, it began with a "NO" showing I had not worked for the Angie's List user.

But the report ended with:

Have you used this company before? this is the first time I've used this company

Which could make the report seem self-contradictory. And if someone casually skimmed through and missed the "no" at the beginning, they may get the impression from the last bottom line, that they had "used" or hired us.

[lawn]

Angie's List is not a fair site, customers get advantage of us b/c them.

[mdvaden]

Angie's List is not a fair site, customers get advantage of us b/c them.

My email to the company was geared toward trying to level that playing field some.

I pointed out that if a non-customer can give me an "F" like that, and I post balanced feedback about that scenerio on Lawnsite, Arboristsite and other sites, their sales of premium listings to contractors is not going to improve because of it.

They make money two ways.

So they really need to aim for a balanced and fair site.

When I called the other day, I noticed at least one defect. Like where one line said "no" they had no work done, but the other line in bold said it was the first time they "used" our company. Contradictory.

And could make it look like they did order work, and it was not completed or something.

[lawn]

I expressed my concerns to them in the past all they have to say is that they are on the customer side because they are they ones who pays, plain and simple: "money is all"

[mdvaden]

I expressed my concerns to them in the past all they have to say is that they are on the customer side because they are they ones who pays, plain and simple: "money is all"

Well in my case, I think that they may need to change the customer report or change their website programming.

Because the last line that says "this is the first time I used them" is not right, and what is not right is usually called false.

If they willingly leave false information, I'm pretty sure some of us can persue them on that matter unless they adapt.

For some reason, I think they would or should want to adapt and fine-tune their site. Only makes them look better - so how could that do anything but help them.

[mdvaden]

Figured I'd throw together a cut and paste of part of the report to show a few things about the Angies List system.

The folks at Angie's List said it should be a day or two for my reply to the person to be posted along with it. As of late today on Thursday, I have not seen my reply.

I think that the contradictory information in the report is indicative of Angie's List failing to properly edit the report. Or deeper, in that the contradictions may be generated by forms and checkboxes people fill out.

Like the "hire again" part with the "no" implies that we may have been hired, but failed to do the work.

It's hard to say without seeing the form they fill. But reads like the form is tailored for people who have hired somebody, but their rules allow reports from people who have merely made contact in some fashion.

For the emails the person pasted into the report, they did not indicate that they omitted part of their email. Not a biggy, but I think half the readers would have learned something about the reporting person, from their omitted sentences.

[mdvaden]

All in all, I'm finding the Angie's List people to be pretty decent to communicate with.

They also offered a tip that was new to me.

A user of their site, can post again about a company after 180 days has passed. And that it may be worth asking a couple of folks if they may not mind doing a follow-up review.

They have a form available, and if we send our customer names, they can cross-reference their files for names of our customers that they share. Helpful since we probably won't know who all we work for who uses their service.

Some of you with a big customer name list may want to inquire about that option.

I wouldn't be surprised if Angie's List becomes a noticeable percentage of work for many of our companies. So I'd encourage folks to become familiar with the FAQs and stuff.

:)

[MarkintheGarden]

All in all, I'm finding the Angie's List people to be pretty decent to communicate with.

They also offered a tip that was new to me.

A user of their site, can post again about a company after 180 days has passed. And that it may be worth asking a couple of folks if they may not mind doing a follow-up review.

They have a form available, and if we send our customer names, they can cross-reference their files for names of our customers that they share. Helpful since we probably won't know who all we work for who uses their service.

Some of you with a big customer name list may want to inquire about that option.

I wouldn't be surprised if Angie's List becomes a noticeable percentage of work for many of our companies. So I'd encourage folks to become familiar with the FAQs and stuff.

:)

My experience with Angie's list has been perfect because I have had all great reviews and gotten a lot of contacts from members. I even received a super service award that makes my listing stand out and has increased the number of contacts.

And yet, I share the concerns brought up in this thread because there is nothing from stopping a member from giving me an unfair negative review. This is one reason why I have declined to advertise with them, another reason is I am not so sure about their policy of trying to provide an unbiased network and selling advertisement at the same time.

When I get contacted from someone through AL, I know that I will be bidding against other contractors, and of course the issue of comparing apples to oranges is always there. I think that issue has to be dealt with by the customer to their own satisfaction. As a service provider our best way to deal with this is to offer more options.

I hate to say it mdvaden, but the stipulation that you made regarding other estimates was either not communicated well, or perhaps inappropriate. In any case it did backfire. I think you need to give potential customers the benefit of the doubt, and just accept that some will make bad choices.

AL clients seem to be relatively smart shoppers who are seeking reputable contractors. They are trying to avoid the many problems that can come with hiring a contractor, and they are paying to achieve this, so they are mostly good potential clients.

[mdvaden]

I hate to say it mdvaden, but the stipulation that you made regarding other estimates was either not communicated well, or perhaps inappropriate. In any case it did backfire. I think you need to give potential customers the benefit of the doubt, and just accept that some will make bad choices.



Possibly, but we also need to be sure we don't allow a rare person to cause us to change our standards.

One thing I learned some years bck, is that when a policy works fine for 99 out of 100 people and lowers costs for the rest, it's not an inviting idea to change the policy for the 1 remaining person.

Otherwise, Id also need to remove my late fee from my contracts, for the one person who may make a bad choice and pay late. But I prefer to keep the late fee in place, because it helps others stay on their toes about paying promptly.

About the Angie's List report thing again ...

I noticed that they have not yet corrected their report forms to prevent inaccurate choices from being displayed. I suspect they may not fix it at all. But I'll probably check back in a month or two to ask if changes were made. Because some things like that may require time to fix.

[topsites]

Sure seems like a lot of trouble for the bennies...

Then again I probably would have just gone out there and gave the estimate,
it's really none of my business if the customer is getting other prices, and if they do,
whom they get it from.

[MarkintheGarden]

Possibly, but we also need to be sure we don't allow a rare person to cause us to change our standards.

One thing I learned some years bck, is that when a policy works fine for 99 out of 100 people and lowers costs for the rest, it's not an inviting idea to change the policy for the 1 remaining person.

Otherwise, Id also need to remove my late fee from my contracts, for the one person who may make a bad choice and pay late. But I prefer to keep the late fee in place, because it helps others stay on their toes about paying promptly.

About the Angie's List report thing again ...

I noticed that they have not yet corrected their report forms to prevent inaccurate choices from being displayed. I suspect they may not fix it at all. But I'll probably check back in a month or two to ask if changes were made. Because some things like that may require time to fix.


I doubt that they will change their form. The member should not be allowed to evaluate you as if you did the work, if you did not. I am curious how AL handles this or if they are willing to do anything about it, so please do keep us updated.

[mdvaden]

I doubt that they will change their form. The member should not be allowed to evaluate you as if you did the work, if you did not. I am curious how AL handles this or if they are willing to do anything about it, so please do keep us updated.

Funny thought last night ... after the edit time limit expired here ...

It's not identical, but this scenerio reminds me of something that happened maybe 18 years ago in Portland, Oregon, that sort of ties-in to business and customers.

A friend who is an arborist, referred me to someone to transform bulky Phitzer junipers into topiary. In the discussion prior, the wife, homeowner, had lied about shade needs of plants beneath, to cover for something else. So I finished the work, realizing that sunburn was not a problem.

Afterward, this lady calls to ask if we can adjust the price, because she is not happy. That's when I learn that she flat-out lied, and because her "kittys" used to hide there, and she was apparently too embarrassed to mention this.

Long story short. My arborist friend shows up at their home. The husband makes sure to mention to us that there is a potential $10,000 worth of work at stake here for my friend if I don't reduce the price of a measely $150 pruning project.

He did not even have to think about it. My friend responds immediately with " the work looks awesome .... get out your checkbook and pay your bill ... I don't need you money"

Money was never a motive for him. His first goal was to be working and keeping his life busy, and to get good honest work. Income was secondary.

[MarkintheGarden]

Funny thought last night ... after the edit time limit expired here ...

It's not identical, but this scenerio reminds me of something that happened maybe 18 years ago in Portland, Oregon, that sort of ties-in to business and customers.

A friend who is an arborist, referred me to someone to transform bulky Phitzer junipers into topiary. In the discussion prior, the wife, homeowner, had lied about shade needs of plants beneath, to cover for something else. So I finished the work, realizing that sunburn was not a problem.

Afterward, this lady calls to ask if we can adjust the price, because she is not happy. That's when I learn that she flat-out lied, and because her "kittys" used to hide there, and she was apparently too embarrassed to mention this.

Long story short. My arborist friend shows up at their home. The husband makes sure to mention to us that there is a potential $10,000 worth of work at stake here for my friend if I don't reduce the price of a measely $150 pruning project.

He did not even have to think about it. My friend responds immediately with " the work looks awesome .... get out your checkbook and pay your bill ... I don't need you money"

Money was never a motive for him. His first goal was to be working and keeping his life busy, and to get good honest work. Income was secondary.

I am not sure that I follow the story but I think I get the meaning. No reason to tolerate a headache today just for benefit of more headaches tomorrow.

[mdvaden]

Last night, I was at a landsscape related association meeting, and shared the scenerio of what's posted in this topic. Because a man called for an estimate the day or two after Chrismas, who got my name from Angies List. That I learned just before leaving.

A week later, he chose my estimate from the 4 total.

He mentioned that he read the good and bad views in entirety. Obviously he leaned toward the good one.

The sharing in the meeting was not on Angies List, just different stuff about how business was doing this time of year and if work was coming in, and how.

A couple of others in the room mentioned they were getting some kind of promotional stuff from Angie's List, but they felt there was a bit too much remaining in Angies List that could be described as "rough edges".

One or two indicated getting some work from people using it though, lately.

[JohnnyRocker]

i did not understand anything you've said, sorry

Lol. Me neither!*trucewhiteflag*

[LawnGuy73]

i did not understand anything you've said, sorry

I'm also lost..... So you wanted the customer to get two other bids and then you would come up with a number based off of those bids? Is that correct?

[mdvaden]

I'm also lost..... So you wanted the customer to get two other bids and then you would come up with a number based off of those bids? Is that correct?


Post number 3 clarified it more or less.

2 people posted reviews of me on Angies list. One I worked for. And one person that I never even talked to or worked for gave me an F.

And no, I did not want them to get other bids.

My email mentioned that my estimates are free as long as anyone they get estimates from for the the same project are from companies with licenses, if the work requires a license.

[Two Seasons]

There is a book titled "Winners never cheat---even in difficult times" by Jon Huntsman.

In the times we are in, we need to be straight up with existing and potential customers, always expecting miscommunication may occur, but always being straight up, and let the chips fall where they may.

This applies to your vendors too!

[tinman]

Sites like Angies list and Yelp are just things businesses will have to deal with . They are growing, not shrinking. Best to use them as a tool as best you can. Good article in latest Inc magazine about Yelp! talks about situations like yours.

[GrassBustersLawn]

Last I checked, I had only 2 comments on Angie's List. One was RAVE review from a regular client. Another was a complaint from a part time "call as needed" mowing only client. Part-timer called once & wanted me to install some plants she had bought on her own. I told her UP FRONT that my schedule was FULL and would be at least 2 weeks before I could get it done. I did get it done right at 2 weeks. She then complained on Angie's list that it took so long. I then spent an hour writing a response to Angie's...which they posted...explaining the situation. I also wrote a letter to the complaining client advising to find someone else. I had been accommodating her in the past and was not willing to do so in the future.

My Angies list rating is good enough that the send me advertising offers all the time. They want me to spend $1500 for this or that. Kind of a "conflict of interest" if you ask me, when they are making $ on both ends.

I just choose not to do business with them & procure clients my way.

[tinman]

Last I checked, I had only 2 comments on Angie's List. One was RAVE review from a regular client. Another was a complaint from a part time "call as needed" mowing only client. Part-timer called once & wanted me to install some plants she had bought on her own. I told her UP FRONT that my schedule was FULL and would be at least 2 weeks before I could get it done. I did get it done right at 2 weeks. She then complained on Angie's list that it took so long. I then spent an hour writing a response to Angie's...which they posted...explaining the situation. I also wrote a letter to the complaining client advising to find someone else. I had been accommodating her in the past and was not willing to do so in the future.

My Angies list rating is good enough that the send me advertising offers all the time. They want me to spend $1500 for this or that. Kind of a "conflict of interest" if you ask me, when they are making $ on both ends.

I just choose not to do business with them & procure clients my way.
I read an article in Inc about the same thing with Yelp. Some businesses turned down the oppotunity to run ads on the site and claimed their favorable reviews were not at the top of the searches anymore.

[PestPro]

I have used Service Magic for years, and for the most part have had very good results with them. Angie's list has called me, and I told them NO thanks.

[lawn]

2003 post?

[PestPro]

Check out Service Magic, I have used them for years, the customer does not pay anything. The Business person pays for all the leads you get. I have a 5 star rating from them and over 30 letters from customer. The notes from the customer can not be changed once it it posted, But the Business person can leave feedback after any post.

[mdvaden]

Sites like Angies list and Yelp are just things businesses will have to deal with . They are growing, not shrinking. Best to use them as a tool as best you can. Good article in latest Inc magazine about Yelp! talks about situations like yours.


As a tool, it probably provides more good than bad. But I concluded that the Angie's List management is leaving some fine-tuning unfinished long enough, to cause a bit of long-term reputation damage aimed at themselves. The kind they won't be able to reverse, but probably could.

My estimate is that 3% worth of change to their overall program, could improve the resource 20% worth.

[mdvaden]

Check out Service Magic, I have used them for years, the customer does not pay anything. The Business person pays for all the leads you get. I have a 5 star rating from them and over 30 letters from customer. The notes from the customer can not be changed once it it posted, But the Business person can leave feedback after any post.

I just got feedback from someone in the pruning tree care industry that tried Service Magic. Said the leads were mostly folks who did not understand or take seriously getting competent tree care, but were more interested in the bottom dollar.