sooo many new lawn guys 2009

[jeffex]

17 years of mowing and I have never seen sooo many new lawn guys this year. Layoffs have put many people out there this year in my area. From the brand new .. I got my severance pay and just bought all new stuff but have No customers guy...to the usual homeowner equipment in the back of the trunk competition. What I wonder is though, how many "illegals " are taking jobs that Americans would be willing to do NOW ! I can't help but remember many a discussion on this site both pro and con on the subject of hiring "illegals" or Hispanic of questionable documentation ( non-H2B ) . I remember just last spring(2008) before the collapse of wall street ( fall 2008) debating the effects and pressures illegals put on the true cost to our economy. California is now bankrupt and writing IOU's . Hmmmmm do I remember posts about how in good times( or good times on paper only) an economy can support subsidized eduction and health care for illegals but as the true economy is revealed those costs stick out like a big zit on prom night!
No matter . My vacation from lawnsite for a while has been rewarded with a return to see good old fashioned entrepreneurs trying to get ahead, grow their business, make a profit, innovate, ...etc. Glad to see America has not all gone socialism...trickle UP poverty. Keep up the good work !

[coolgreen]

Yeah, I'm having the same problem here. I've never seen so many new lawn companies pop up in one year. They are driving prices way down. I don't think they will last when they realize how hard it is to stay in this game for the long haul.

Snow plowing is going to be crazy this season. There are already guys in my area willing to work for peanuts, and this is only going to make things worse. These guys don't let little things like the proper insurance bother them.

As for socialism, I'm glad I don't have to pay for my healthcare. I can go to my doctor or a specialist any time I have a problem and it does not cost me a penny.

We also don't have to fight with insurance companies. If they are anything like the auto insurance industry, I sure as hell wouldn't want them running our healthcare. Their main priority is paying out as little as possible and dodging all responsibility.

On the flipside, we do pay a lot more in taxes than you guys in the States.

[bohiaa]

It's funny in my area they always pop up when the season starts. there everywhere.

then when it gets HOT, 100 + , they start dropping like flys, this is when we notice these guys start putting there equipment up for sale....

I useually wait about 1 year before I will purchase...

[Hanau]

Up here it was tree guys. Every laid off logger became an arborist.

[MikeKle]

What you have to remember is most of these new lawn care companies will not be here for the long term, most will not even last one season! They think its easy money, but they dont think about how long it takes to build up a good client base, cost of the equipment, much more fuel than their used to buying,etc. I see these people around here too, but usually in spring, then by August, only the true LCOs remain! And these people also contribute by always having equipment to sell very cheaply when they figure out they cant make a living doing this! I dont care if a guy gets a $100K severance pkg, and is able to go out and buy a new Ford F550, a trailer full of $15,000. mowers, that doesnt mean anything if they have no bodys grass to cut! Getting and maintaing a good client pool is the biggest challange in this industry, these people usually get the price shoppers, the one time cuts, the bi-weeklys, the really PITA yards, basically all the yards a real LCO wont touch! The will be on the next get rich quick scheme after they try lawn care! I think they are pretty funny when i see them out on the road!

[1wezil]

I hear ya , can't believe:laugh: how many I have seen this year . Some are really funny .....:laugh::laugh:

[Bob_n_weave]

Yeah, all these new guys are killing me too. :p

[jeffex]

this year is different IMo. Yes , in a typical year there is always a new crop of start-ups to give this a go and the usual pitfalls of this business send them packing. but the new economy may put this crop here to stay. i'm guessing the logging biz took a dive due to the lack of demand for pulp paper as a result of decreased mailings. Sending the logging industry into a tail spin. All home services or 'rent a husband" services as my wife calls them are up for grabs by capable men looking for work

[MikeKle]

Coolgreen, what is the lawn care industry like up there? I guess you all probably start mowing around mid to late May and wrap it up around mid August? Thats not much time to make money! Do you all charge more or less per yard than we do in the states? Ive heard the yards in Canada are similar to england, dont know if thats true or not? The US media always blasts your alls health care system, it sounds good the way you desribed it. You pay nothing for any doctor visit? Do the drs. make good money there? They will end up passing some sort of health care bill here soon, I tend ot agree that the private health insurance companies do basically RAPE people and will continue to do so unless they change the rules!

[jeffex]

the health care bill they are trying to shove down our throats here has nothing to do with health care. It has to do with controlling 1`/6 of the economy by one party. NOTHING the government does is efficient ,cost cutting , or better than the private sector. Improvements in the health care insurance structure..HELL YES...government run health care...HELL NO. Take for example the banks that took bailout money. The government then became their masters. They should have been allowed to fail and gobled up by a successful private bank that didn't get caught up credit default swaps and derrivitaves. How many people out there have fancy houses, cell phone bills over $100 per month, car payments over $500 per month, cable/sat. TV over $100 per month but don't pay for health care themselves because they don't have to. there are many states that mandate insurance companies cover all types of testing that limits how many insurance providers will offer insurance to the residents of that state. What would be better and increase competition is allowing residents to purchase from a larger pool of insurance companies and requiring only that catostrofic coverage be mandatory . You could still get a lexus cover all policy if you could afford one or your employer subsidized it as a perk for that job. Where are these things in the discussion about "free " health care. NO free lunch my friend...you will be paying higher taxes for universal coverage that will be rationed as the demand increasesfor anything "free".. The pool of doctors will get shallow as they retire and change professions as you take the profit margin out of that field. Both our current political parties have failed us. Just be careful wishing for "free" anything in this world because if you think you won't pay in another way your in for a suprise.

[ALC-GregH]

Even with the way things have gone, I've been much more busy then last year and I've gotten more work going into winter as well as a few very large projects that will get me through until spring rolls around.

[Richard Martin]

I see tons and tons of "fly by nighters" here. I just ignore them and stick to what I do best. I lost 2 accounts due to the economy and I consider myself lucky. I drove by them a couple of times this year just to see if they picked up another company and it's obvious that the homeowner is doing their own lawn or the new company is doing an awful job. Down here even the most basic company will at least blow off the sidewalks and stuff and they were covered in clippings.

I have a friend in MD and he has been devastated by the economy. At his peak he was up to 80 customers. Now he's down to 55. That's $1000 a week at a $40 average cut.

[ALC-GregH]

Where in Md Richard?

[LwnmwrMan22]

Up here it was tree guys. Every laid off logger became an arborist.

It's that way here with the firewood sales.

Last year I sold 20 full cords in 2 weeks.

This year I can't get a call, everyone's ad is 25-50% cheaper than my break even point.

Anyone with a dead tree and an ax was a firewood distributor this year.

[RGM]

Its has been my worse year alot of guys cutting real cheap in some of my areas. I lost a few $35 lawns to guys cutting for $20 and similar underbidding and lost a few do to 2 income families loosing a job. I think next season will be better.

[cutterschoice24]

I must agree here in fl its all of the construction people that are in the business you can tell who they are they have the big jacked up trucks with a tiny little trailer with a ztr that barely fits in the trailer and have no ideal what their doing and they are cheap cut throat you in a heartbeat but i just do the best job i can so hopefully i don't have to worry about it i do the really nice neighborhoods that not just anybody can get in and i also do the difficult yards that nobody wants with slopes and everything else they pose a challenge but pay very well.

[topsites]

I just ignore them and stick to what I do best.

That's the best thing to do, the more time I spend worrying about what everyone
else is doing, the less time I have to worry about what I really need to be worrying about.

Peace out

[brucec32]

The good news is that 99% of jobs people have be laid off from require nothing like the level of exertion, people skills, ability to organize, and such that doing this well does. Mowing your own lawn or even a dozen on the side is one thing. Getting up and doing it day-in, day-out to earn anything approaching "a living" is another. Toss in high heat in the summer and attrition will take a huge toll.

So for every new start-up in the spring a large proportion will be gone by the end of the season.

The bad news is that they can do a lot of damage to the price structure, your client base, and the industry's rep in the meantime.

[jeffex]

the question is ..how will your business morph should the economy fall even more. Are you in debt ? How low can you go in pricing to keep some money rather than NO money comming in. What if peoples taxes go up to pay for all the "free" stuff and bailouts. I got lots of calls for 2 week cuts this year and I said no thanks but is that in our future? What if the dollar devaluates farther as the fed prints money and oil is no longer priced in dollars. How much will gas cost? What does it cost , if possible , to convert my equipment to run on LP gas that is available domestically. We will have to go to natural fertilizers such as corn gluten and compost tea as chemically processed fertilizer will sky rocket. Just look at the price of fert when gas was over $4 a gal. These are the things I'm preparing to tackle as we move through this dangerous economy with inept leadership.

[Richard Martin]

Where in Md Richard?

Edgewater. What's up Greg?

[coolgreen]

Coolgreen, what is the lawn care industry like up there? I guess you all probably start mowing around mid to late May and wrap it up around mid August? Thats not much time to make money! Do you all charge more or less per yard than we do in the states? Ive heard the yards in Canada are similar to england, dont know if thats true or not? The US media always blasts your alls health care system, it sounds good the way you desribed it. You pay nothing for any doctor visit? Do the drs. make good money there? They will end up passing some sort of health care bill here soon, I tend ot agree that the private health insurance companies do basically RAPE people and will continue to do so unless they change the rules!

We do our spring cleanups in April, start cutting the first week of May, cut until the end of October, then do fall cleanups in November. Some years I've been able to keep going right into December with cleanups, but the past two years have been brutal, with snow falling in mid-November and not stopping all winter.

In Toronto we get far less snow than Buffalo. Those guys are getting hammered every time I check the weather. But, if you travel about an hour north there is a snow belt where we also get a ton of snow. My friend uses Kubota tractors with blowers, as there is nowhere left to put the snow after about the middle of December.

Our lawns are probably the same size as yours. I do mostly smaller places, as a find I make a lot more money on them - in and out in minutes. But I have a friend who does nothing but huge estate-sized lots.

As for our doctors, a lot of them have moved to the U.S., as they can make way more money. Many of our nurses also tend to gravitate south. And yes, I don't pay anything out-of-pocket for healthcare. I can also go to any doctor I choose, and also other doctors for a second or even third opinion, which is a common misconception from what I understand. Wait times can sometimes be a problem. I had to wait about six months to see a neurologist about a year ago.

I can't imagine an insurance company calling the shots on healthcare. Their main concern is the bottom line, which is usually accomplished by giving out the least amount of care possible. Does not sound like a good system to me.

But like I said, I think we pay more in taxes here.

[downtoearthlco]

We will have to go to natural fertilizers such as corn gluten and compost tea as chemically processed fertilizer will sky rocket.

I have already started doing this. I thought about this last year before I started my business. I have a neighbor that has a horse farm and with all the leaves an greens from flowerbed cleanups I can to make my own compost right here in my backyard. Also on the edge of starting a worm farm that I can sell the compost and teas.

I've seen alot of bartering lately and had a customer yesterday mention a handyman that does some work for the use of there camp on the lake for a week in the summer, the dude had 2 jet skies parked there.

I was there giving an estimate for a fall cleanup and planting some small pine trees, and will tell you it sounded pretty tempting. I have done some work for this customer before, mainly one-time jobs but nothing regular.

[jeffex]

I believe your ahead of the game . Ingenuity and invention will prevail in any business even if our gov wants socialism. I don't believe the majority of Americans want to become dependants on the fed. We will however, have to survive radical efforts to change the capitalism model that has worked for over 200 years. How do you survive as customers disposable incomes fall due to higher taxes and increased fuel , fertilizer, and regulation costs of opperating? Get a plan for that model and you will thrive IMO. I'm modeling and pricing my services to prepare for adownward pressure on the benchmark ..price per cut. This is the number customers can shop on you. I'm afraid we have seen a peak in prices for a while as the flood of start ups and illegals flood the market with cheap labor. I know all the threads about how you have to seperate yourself with quality and specialized services . Hell, I may have even started a few of those . The bottom line for me is to be lean and mean with low overhead and serveral pricing options for those customers shopping for a bargain. I want to protect my territory . I saw last week the absolute WORST lawn cut in my life. 21" ragged mowers , dull blades, clumps of windrowed grass, cutting off 2/3 of the grass to expose the yellow of the grass, and grass left in the street. And they got paid for the job..sheesh!

[Richard Martin]

I saw last week the absolute WORST lawn cut in my life. 21" ragged mowers , dull blades, clumps of windrowed grass, cutting off 2/3 of the grass to expose the yellow of the grass, and grass left in the street. And they got paid for the job..sheesh!

I'm busted again! I was in MD last week and did a little moonlighting. I'll try to stay out of Catonsville next time. :laugh:

[jeffex]

Lol ! RM we're seeing all kinds up here this year. If these guys are cuttin' for beer money they better drink natty boh's

[Richard Martin]

If these guys are cuttin' for beer money they better drink natty boh's

Only in Ball-mur!

[johnwon]

Just be glad these people are wanting to work for money rather than go into crime instead. They could have spent their money on a weapon instead of a mower. Also lookout if the government stops extending unemployment. I think it is up to 93 weeks and more in some states. If we end up with 3+ million people with no more extensions, I can see a lot of mowing going on and or a lot more crime. Good luck out there guys, it is hard to scrape by for most of us.

[Carolina Cuts]

Just be glad these people are wanting to work for money rather than go into crime instead. They could have spent their money on a weapon instead of a mower.

not all of them...
3 weeks ago, every loose item on my truck and trailer was stolen, cept for my ztr....

2 bp blowers
2 trimmers
2 hedge trimmers
1 extension hedge trimmer
1 edger
2 pushmowers
1 bp sprayer

I'm gonna catch em' too....

[johnwon]

I'm sorry about your loss, I hope your insurance will cover it. I'm afraid that violent crime may start escalating if we keep loosing jobs each month. I think for some people they feel they have nothing to loose and they take the risks involved with crime. In some situations they do risk getting killed by someone defending their person or property.

[Carolina Cuts]

Thanks Johnwon.... insurance covered most... I'll end up loosing some $$$. It's bull.... apparently theres a group of wanna-be gang members hittin' up neighborhoods..... takin' whatever they can and reselling quick..... they hit the jackpot with my crap....

[jeffex]

I am politically active for the first time in my life . Oh I voted and studied the candidates but NOW I am scared as sh%$ where this new administratin is taking this country . SOCIALISM! but that is another thread. I encourage all to wake up and find out what is realy going on in washington and has been for a long time. There is a reason gun sales are up and amunition is scarce. As the economy throws more and more on the unemployment roles and they give amnesty to the illegals ( comming soon) that will mean even more competition. Depending on where you mow you may have to hire someone to guard your equipment . Today alone I noticed 3 different ragtag ,homeowner equipment 21" mower, rakes and brooms, style lawn services running in my area.Was that you Richard? 17 years ago I got $20 to $25 a 1/4 acre lawn and sheesh! are we looking at those numbers AGAIN ! I hope not

[johnwon]

It does look like it will still get worse before it gets better. HOLD ON!!

[razor1]

jeffex, consider this an official invite to participate in the "Political" section of LS and kick some liberal arss!!!! The more conservatives the better. :usflag:

[WGLandscapeMaintenance]

How can a business owner be a liberal? It doesn't make sense!!

[jeffex]

jeffex, consider this an official invite to participate in the "Political" section of LS and kick some liberal arss!!!! The more conservatives the better. :usflag:

thanks for the invite. I have found that arguing with idiots is just a waste of time. I went cold turkey from the blogosphere for a while and spent my time trying to educate people who were looking for answers to questions. I found that blogos make up the 15 % on the left and the 15% on the right that will never change their minds or learn from each other. There are many people in the middle who aren't even aware of what is going on in this country. I wasted many a typing moment on this very forum trying to explain the cost to our economy and our society of illegals and more importantly to the future of the green industry . Sooo thanks but no thanks. I have become a "community organizer" trying to combat the efforts to socialize the country I love . this link is what has happened to me...http://sitebuilder.yola.com/sites/D72b/D2f0/D9ba/D76a/U8a49866a1e87a52f011ea67ab90f2b27/8a49866a1e87a52f011ea67e80342b82/wake-up-america.php?sys_preview

[Chilehead]

It's funny in my area they always pop up when the season starts. there everywhere.

then when it gets HOT, 100 + , they start dropping like flys, this is when we notice these guys start putting there equipment up for sale....

I useually wait about 1 year before I will purchase...

Same here!! How true, how true.

[jeffex]

These are perilous times my friends. The "emergency" we were sold last sept. 15 that the whole system would crash if we didn't bailout companies too big to fail was BS. That emergency lead Americans to let our government put a burden on our children and grand children to pay back the very people who robbed and cheated America out of their life savings. The new guy with "hope and change" has siezed the oppertunity to fundamentaly change America in to a European style socialist country. While many are fighting on blogs across the land the Ford vs Chevy debate between Repubs and Dems some of us have realized they are ALL F'n us . They want you distracted while America is LOOTED! its NOT about health care its about grabbing control of more of YOUR freedom. Wake UP or you may find yourself working for one of a small handfull of companies allowed to opperate lawn business' in the United Socialist States of America because of heavy gov. regulations and fees.

[johnwon]

These are perilous times my friends. The "emergency" we were sold last sept. 15 that the whole system would crash if we didn't bailout companies too big to fail was BS. That emergency lead Americans to let our government put a burden on our children and grand children to pay back the very people who robbed and cheated America out of their life savings. The new guy with "hope and change" has siezed the oppertunity to fundamentaly change America in to a European style socialist country. While many are fighting on blogs across the land the Ford vs Chevy debate between Repubs and Dems some of us have realized they are ALL F'n us . They want you distracted while America is LOOTED! its NOT about health care its about grabbing control of more of YOUR freedom. Wake UP or you may find yourself working for one of a small handfull of companies allowed to opperate lawn business' in the United Socialist States of America because of heavy gov. regulations and fees.
Thanks for your directed effort. I was burning up the phones on the first tarp that did not pass and then again when they added all the pork for the second round. There you have it. They went against the people. You are right as for the same ________'s that robbed America the first time went back and robbed the children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, etc. with what they have done and continue to do each day with the current monetary policy. "PRINTING MONEY"

[Chilehead]

These are perilous times my friends. The "emergency" we were sold last sept. 15 that the whole system would crash if we didn't bailout companies too big to fail was BS. That emergency lead Americans to let our government put a burden on our children and grand children to pay back the very people who robbed and cheated America out of their life savings. The new guy with "hope and change" has siezed the oppertunity to fundamentaly change America in to a European style socialist country. While many are fighting on blogs across the land the Ford vs Chevy debate between Repubs and Dems some of us have realized they are ALL F'n us . They want you distracted while America is LOOTED! its NOT about health care its about grabbing control of more of YOUR freedom. Wake UP or you may find yourself working for one of a small handfull of companies allowed to opperate lawn business' in the United Socialist States of America because of heavy gov. regulations and fees.

Have any of you read the book, "Our Sacred Honor" by William Bennett? It is a collection of quotes and letters from our Founding Fathers. Our country has strayed so far away from what The Framers intended, and so close to what they defined as ultimate corruption--it will take the equivalent of The French Revolution to turn this country around.

[razor1]

thanks for the invite. I have found that arguing with idiots is just a waste of time. I went cold turkey from the blogosphere for a while and spent my time trying to educate people who were looking for answers to questions. I found that blogos make up the 15 % on the left and the 15% on the right that will never change their minds or learn from each other. There are many people in the middle who aren't even aware of what is going on in this country. I wasted many a typing moment on this very forum trying to explain the cost to our economy and our society of illegals and more importantly to the future of the green industry . Sooo thanks but no thanks. I have become a "community organizer" trying to combat the efforts to socialize the country I love . this link is what has happened to me...http://sitebuilder.yola.com/sites/D72b/D2f0/D9ba/D76a/U8a49866a1e87a52f011ea67ab90f2b27/8a49866a1e87a52f011ea67e80342b82/wake-up-america.php?sys_preview

Understood. It's always good to know another conservative in such a liberal state (MD) BTW have you heard Ehrlich is thinking about a run for Governor again...he's not the most conservative but he is better than O'Malley. Hopefully we can turn things around in the upcoming elections.

[JohnnyRocker]

17 years of mowing and I have never seen sooo many new lawn guys this year. Layoffs have put many people out there this year in my area. From the brand new .. I got my severance pay and just bought all new stuff but have No customers guy...to the usual homeowner equipment in the back of the trunk competition. What I wonder is though, how many "illegals " are taking jobs that Americans would be willing to do NOW ! I can't help but remember many a discussion on this site both pro and con on the subject of hiring "illegals" or Hispanic of questionable documentation ( non-H2B ) . I remember just last spring(2008) before the collapse of wall street ( fall 2008) debating the effects and pressures illegals put on the true cost to our economy. California is now bankrupt and writing IOU's . Hmmmmm do I remember posts about how in good times( or good times on paper only) an economy can support subsidized eduction and health care for illegals but as the true economy is revealed those costs stick out like a big zit on prom night!
No matter . My vacation from lawnsite for a while has been rewarded with a return to see good old fashioned entrepreneurs trying to get ahead, grow their business, make a profit, innovate, ...etc. Glad to see America has not all gone socialism...trickle UP poverty. Keep up the good work !

Maybe your buddy Bush had a lot to do with "illegals" being here.

[JohnnyRocker]

the health care bill they are trying to shove down our throats here has nothing to do with health care. It has to do with controlling 1`/6 of the economy by one party. NOTHING the government does is efficient ,cost cutting , or better than the private sector. Improvements in the health care insurance structure..HELL YES...government run health care...HELL NO. Take for example the banks that took bailout money. The government then became their masters. They should have been allowed to fail and gobled up by a successful private bank that didn't get caught up credit default swaps and derrivitaves. How many people out there have fancy houses, cell phone bills over $100 per month, car payments over $500 per month, cable/sat. TV over $100 per month but don't pay for health care themselves because they don't have to. there are many states that mandate insurance companies cover all types of testing that limits how many insurance providers will offer insurance to the residents of that state. What would be better and increase competition is allowing residents to purchase from a larger pool of insurance companies and requiring only that catostrofic coverage be mandatory . You could still get a lexus cover all policy if you could afford one or your employer subsidized it as a perk for that job. Where are these things in the discussion about "free " health care. NO free lunch my friend...you will be paying higher taxes for universal coverage that will be rationed as the demand increasesfor anything "free".. The pool of doctors will get shallow as they retire and change professions as you take the profit margin out of that field. Both our current political parties have failed us. Just be careful wishing for "free" anything in this world because if you think you won't pay in another way your in for a suprise.

Sounds like typical fox news misinformation.

[jeffex]

Bush was soft on illegals. Amen fellow conservative in a liberal state. I would rather see Ehrlich run against Mikulski though. Omalley is marginilized due to the balanced budget in this state . The bigger war is in Washington IMO . Thanks for letting me know about my FOX affliction...I had no idea

[jeffex]

Understood. It's always good to know another conservative in such a liberal state (MD) BTW have you heard Ehrlich is thinking about a run for Governor again...he's not the most conservative but he is better than O'Malley. Hopefully we can turn things around in the upcoming elections.

razor1 WE have our work cut out for us don't we! I'm ready for the battle. This is NO time to fight over party affiliation but over the constitution our founders crafted during tyrannical times. The same times we are headed for under this new admin. This thread is annecdotal evidence ( sooo many new lawn guys 2009 ) of the failure of the TARP, the stimulus , and even cash for clunkers , to keep Americans working . Instead they are loading up lawn mowers and tring to keep from going under financially themselves. A 15% er from the left has figured me out and done his job of marginializing me with his clever snipe. What many of us realize is this battle is for the Republic, Capitalism, the constitution, and our sovrienty as O moves towards socialism and the one world order. What my liberal detractor fails to realize is the the criminals in DC are voting on "net neutrality " today in washington that is an effort to squelch the 1st ammendment . He/ she may believe that once they shut up FOX news and talk radio the world will be safe! Hah! then they will come after him as MAO (hero of the white house) did in his efforts to spread communism.
America was once a place where sportsmanship was taught and revered. On the field , the workplace , and even in the political arena. Like I typed before , I'm not here to argue with idiots. razor1 I'm of the belief that Ehrlich would be better served running against Mikulski as she is up for election in 2010 as well. Better yet due to the political climate in MD I would love to see a Democrat that believes in the CONSTITUTION run for her seat. I would vote for any one who still believes in America and not USSA..united socialist states of america.

[Richard Martin]

I wish presidential debates were more like those here at Lawnsite. It would make the whole process more interesting.

I'm http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb56/RMartin631/smilies/outtahere.gif

[jeffex]

there are people who want the truth. Answers and honest explanations to consequences of the actions of our government. Sadly they don't happen too often in the blogosphere where anonymous people can't look someone directly in the eye and get a feel for their honesty. My new role as community organizer is to counter the disinformation that comes out of Washington in person. Now and in the past. we need to move back to what our founders intended this country to be. In that vein, if someone can show me the country, business, family , whatever that spent its way into prosperity when facing astronomical debt PLEASE let me know and I will convert! Until then economics is founded in math and the numbers just don't lie. If we ran our business' like the gov has for many a decade we would all have to be Bernie Maddoff to con creditors and customers out of money only to give them nothing in return.

[jeffex]

thanks monitors!
yesterday I was pressue washing in an affluent neighborhood. The lawn crew down the street could be heard moving my way. The crew appeared to be 3 hispanics. They took great interest in what I was doing. I noticed them trying to see what chemicals I was using and they walked past my truck several times looking. Finally the driver came up to me an asked with a heavy accent and broken english what I was using as he wanted to wash his own house. I calmly told him " didn't your crew get a good look for themselves". He nervously laughed as he tried to read the labels for himself. I told Jose as he introduced himself that it was NOT what I used but the formula and mix. Mix the wring stuff and you are buying new windows , repainting or even residing a house. This got his wheels turning and he said..."hey we can work for you". No thanks I said but I'd be glad to get a referal from YOUR coustomers. I gave him my card from my lawn business as I was out of P wash cards. I wonder if he noticed my website..AmericansCut Lawns.com ... Gave me a good laugh! They couldn't READ! They needed to con me out of the names on the containers. I usually hide them in my tool box but I had left them out this time. I had to admire his effort to learn what I did so he could just steal away my formulas and add this to HIS services. All kinds of competition out there my friends!!! what will 2010 bring as more go without work. I am making a plan to capture market share in an offensive move rather than play defence.

[JohnnyRocker]

not all of them...
3 weeks ago, every loose item on my truck and trailer was stolen, cept for my ztr....

2 bp blowers
2 trimmers
2 hedge trimmers
1 extension hedge trimmer
1 edger
2 pushmowers
1 bp sprayer

I'm gonna catch em' too....
When you catch them, I hope you post their hanging on you tube! Good luck!

[grassman177]

we have seen the same here. i mean to say i have never seen so many mower guys. most of them are just lawnboys, not actual turf maint guys.

i also have no idea where they even work, as i never see them do anything but driving on the main roads.

i have never felt threatened by these guys as they dont work in my markets being we are fullservice company

[jeffex]

with this administration more likely we will be seeing amnesty for all illegals in 2010. they do what they want because people sit around and complain but do nothing. Unemployment is at 10% and you will be competing with a new crop of guys/gals getting $300 a week on unemployyment and putting theier lawnmower in thier trunk fo make a few bucks more.
I guess all you companies out there that hire illegals will breathe a sigh of relief. But just like the guy I ran in to pressure washing he had NO American guys working for his crew. You will have helped lure and train your replacements! And now they will be legal! fools . non-compete clauses don't work on people who already broke immigration laws to get here.

[jeffex]

When you catch them, I hope you post their hanging on you tube! Good luck!

I 'm handing out free bus tickets to Charlotte NC .

[Richard Martin]

with this administration more likely we will be seeing amnesty for all illegals in 2010. they do what they want because people sit around and complain but do nothing. Unemployment is at 10% and you will be competing with a new crop of guys/gals getting $300 a week on unemployyment and putting theier lawnmower in thier trunk fo make a few bucks more.
I guess all you companies out there that hire illegals will breathe a sigh of relief. But just like the guy I ran in to pressure washing he had NO American guys working for his crew. You will have helped lure and train your replacements! And now they will be legal! fools . non-compete clauses don't work on people who already broke immigration laws to get here.

Jeffex, everything is getting out of control, even here at Lawnsite. It seems like every week there's someone whining about low ballers and people getting into this business just for the "extra money". But, if one of those guys comes here looking for advice everybody and his brother jumps right on in and tries to help the new scrub out. Look at this post....

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=300155

The guy makes it perfectly clear that he has no intention of going legit. How can we make any forward progress if everybody is working backwards?

[jeffex]

I'm not against start ups or for regulations to limit entry. I am a free market person and let the best business win. What I am against is illegals employed in this business by criminal employers looking the other way at questionable identification.
People share info with me and I them over the years. I know people in many trades that can't compete with companies bidding lower with illegal workers. Not just the lawn business. Amnesty will put many of them in business for themselves and put their current employers in the same boat .

[rcslawncare]

What you have to remember is most of these new lawn care companies will not be here for the long term, most will not even last one season! They think its easy money, but they dont think about how long it takes to build up a good client base, cost of the equipment, much more fuel than their used to buying,etc. I see these people around here too, but usually in spring, then by August, only the true LCOs remain! And these people also contribute by always having equipment to sell very cheaply when they figure out they cant make a living doing this! I dont care if a guy gets a $100K severance pkg, and is able to go out and buy a new Ford F550, a trailer full of $15,000. mowers, that doesnt mean anything if they have no bodys grass to cut! Getting and maintaing a good client pool is the biggest challange in this industry, these people usually get the price shoppers, the one time cuts, the bi-weeklys, the really PITA yards, basically all the yards a real LCO wont touch! The will be on the next get rich quick scheme after they try lawn care! I think they are pretty funny when i see them out on the road!


HEy, at least when they fail and need to make the house payment, you can get that stuff for next to nothing!

[Mahoney3223]

The problem in my area is that big companies are lowballing just as bad as the blowhards....it's everywhere

[rcslawncare]

I hear you there, as long there are layoffs, people will use the household mower to try and get some type of income driving down the price of lawn care year after year when the prices of gas and new machines are sky high! It is what it is I guess....

[WGLandscapeMaintenance]

Jeffex, everything is getting out of control, even here at Lawnsite. It seems like every week there's someone whining about low ballers and people getting into this business just for the "extra money". But, if one of those guys comes here looking for advice everybody and his brother jumps right on in and tries to help the new scrub out. Look at this post....

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=300155

The guy makes it perfectly clear that he has no intention of going legit. How can we make any forward progress if everybody is working backwards?

I gave that guy a nice warm welcome to the site...;)