Manure

[atouchofnature]

I have a friend who, up until the last 2 years, bought & resold livestock for a living. These last 2 years, he has taken on a full time job, but still makes a few dollars on the side with the livestock.

Behind his barn is a pile, about the size of a small car, of manure. This is a combination of goat, sheep, rabbit, cow, horse, chicken, duck (I could go on all day with this list, but you get the point) manure, with the vast majority being from sheep & goats. This is from cleaning out stalls, cages, his livestock trailer etc. and the pile is probably 95% or more pure manure, with the remainder being hay, straw, feed scraps etc.

He started a new pile about 3 years ago, so this pile has been naturally composting for 3 years, and now has an earthy odor and has the consistency of soil.

He told me yesterday, when I asked him about the pile, that I could have it free of charge. I had considered applying it to lawns.

I know that an exact answer is impossible, but does anyone have an educated guess of what the NPK level might be? If not, could anyone recommend how much I should apply, if I should apply it at all?

[ICT Bill]

I have a friend who, up until the last 2 years, bought & resold livestock for a living. These last 2 years, he has taken on a full time job, but still makes a few dollars on the side with the livestock.

Behind his barn is a pile, about the size of a small car, of manure. This is a combination of goat, sheep, rabbit, cow, horse, chicken, duck (I could go on all day with this list, but you get the point) manure, with the vast majority being from sheep & goats. This is from cleaning out stalls, cages, his livestock trailer etc. and the pile is probably 95% or more pure manure, with the remainder being hay, straw, feed scraps etc.

He started a new pile about 3 years ago, so this pile has been naturally composting for 3 years, and now has an earthy odor and has the consistency of soil.

He told me yesterday, when I asked him about the pile, that I could have it free of charge. I had considered applying it to lawns.

I know that an exact answer is impossible, but does anyone have an educated guess of what the NPK level might be? If not, could anyone recommend how much I should apply, if I should apply it at all?

You would have to send it out for testing, easy.... be patient. It cost less than $15, it is worth the money

I would not use it for compost tea brewing but you could probably spread it on turf, but it may be 11% N and burn every lawn it touches at 1 yard per 1500 sq ft

Get it tested, then you will know

[atouchofnature]

You would have to send it out for testing, easy.... be patient. It cost less than $15, it is worth the money

I would not use it for compost tea brewing but you could probably spread it on turf, but it may be 11% N and burn every lawn it touches at 1 yard per 1500 sq ft

Get it tested, then you will know

Where would I get it tested?

[Smallaxe]

Sounds like the manure is cured enough even for gardens. 3 years in an open pile you probably have N around 1 or 2% just like the bags of compost in the box stores. The problem with manure is that it doesn't easily break into small pieces like compost does and may suffocate small pockets of turf.

Farmers around here have spread a winter supply of manure on grass fields for generations. The biggest advantage I believe, is the addition of OM,along with the 'available' N.

[atouchofnature]

The problem with manure is that it doesn't easily break into small pieces like compost does and may suffocate small pockets of turf.

Would it be better apply it very lightly to lawns, and use the bulk of it to side dress shrubs & perennials?

One thing that really made me want to use it was that I pulled out a shovel full, and it literally looked alive because of all the redworms in it. I heard that applying live worms to a lawn was a waste of time because they wouldn't be able to burrow in, but that their eggs might hatch and the offspring make it into the soil. Is this true?

After years of having sevin, diazinon, oftanol & dylox applied along with other pesticides I think the earthworm populations are really thin. I know that over time they will return, but if there is a way to speed up the process, beyond adding organic matter, someone please chime in and tell me.

[ICT Bill]

Would it be better apply it very lightly to lawns, and use the bulk of it to side dress shrubs & perennials?

One thing that really made me want to use it was that I pulled out a shovel full, and it literally looked alive because of all the redworms in it. I heard that applying live worms to a lawn was a waste of time because they wouldn't be able to burrow in, but that their eggs might hatch and the offspring make it into the soil. Is this true?

After years of having sevin, diazinon, oftanol & dylox applied along with other pesticides I think the earthworm populations are really thin. I know that over time they will return, but if there is a way to speed up the process, beyond adding organic matter, someone please chime in and tell me.

Go to the USDA site that I posted before, open the power point and look for "succession" in soils
Heavily disturbed soils start with small colonies of bacteria and move towards the other extreme which is old growth forests where fungi dominate the soil 1000 to 1 to bacteria. Turf likes a 1:1 ratio of bacteria to fungi, shrubs and trees more fungal

It starts with the bacteria, they support bacterial predators (nematodes and others) that bring in and support their predators, it is a war down there. The cycle of eating, procreation, dieing, being eaten and pooped out are all part of the process that we are trying to support. I have another way of saying it, but can't say it in public

Compost has all of those guys already in there but a lot of them are compost critters not soil critters and soon go away after the environment (applying to soil) changes, the organic matter in the compost supplies the "food" to support the beginnings of nutrient cycling. The bacteria (slime) and fungi hyphi begin aggregation, small areas where water and air move as we support those guys we get better water and air flow which supports soil life much easier

The most fertile place in the soil is at the end of a root! as we begin to support better practices the roots begin to penetrate further into the soil supporting more and more life in the end making more fertile soil

In fertile soil you can grow anything

[Smallaxe]

Would it be better apply it very lightly to lawns, and use the bulk of it to side dress shrubs & perennials?

One thing that really made me want to use it was that I pulled out a shovel full, and it literally looked alive because of all the redworms in it. I heard that applying live worms to a lawn was a waste of time because they wouldn't be able to burrow in, but that their eggs might hatch and the offspring make it into the soil. Is this true?

After years of having sevin, diazinon, oftanol & dylox applied along with other pesticides I think the earthworm populations are really thin. I know that over time they will return, but if there is a way to speed up the process, beyond adding organic matter, someone please chime in and tell me.

With a lot of worms in it, I would think, you have the same consistancy as compost. Maybe a bit of screening for the large dry chunks, but you might be able to use it in the same way as compost.

[pt03]

Any viable weed seeds left in it? I'd take some and mix it in with potting soil or something like that and see if anything germinates. I'd hate to put a wack of this stuff down on peoples lawns only to find out it's full of weed seeds.

I have never used manures for composting. (yet)

Lloyd

[atouchofnature]

With a lot of worms in it, I would think, you have the same consistancy as compost. Maybe a bit of screening for the large dry chunks, but you might be able to use it in the same way as compost.

Good point. I should probably dig deeper and see what it's like. I was a little off base when I said it had the consistency of soil, many of the particles are definitely bigger than any soil particles. What I meant was, that there were no large chunks. Screened compost would be a better comparison for the consistency of most of it, while there are still some pea sized chunks.

One thing that I didn't mention is that while the top of this heap is 3 years old, the bottom of the heap is about 5 - 6 years old. He never turned the pile at all. He just shoveled it all out there and let it do it's thing naturally. He had no intention of composting, just needed to get the manure out of the barn.

[oOTurfmanoO]

Where would I get it tested?

http://www.aasl.psu.edu/compstprog10_09_02.html

This is a direct link for compost testing; however since you are using manure, search the site for the corresponding manure test. Remember, soil is all mineral matter, SAND/SILT/CLAY while a compost is Organic Matter.

Both tests are substantially different from a soil test which typically costs $10-$12.00. You are looking at a minimum of $30.00 for a base test, WELL WORTH IT!

Hope this helps......

[atouchofnature]

Excellent point pt03. I will take your advice.

Thanks for the link Turfman. Besides finding a source for testing, there were some good informational links from that page.

[Kiril]

Remember, soil is all mineral matter, SAND/SILT/CLAY while a compost is Organic Matter.

So what if I have an organic soil or soil with organic matter.... or compost with sand or any other mineral?

[starry night]

Where would I get it tested?

Here's a highly-regarded testing lab closer to you:

CLC Labs Westerville OH (Columbus suburb)
Phone 614 - 888-1663

They are very helpful and will send you a price list and a kit with all the information you need for submitting samples.

[ICT Bill]

So what if I have an organic soil or soil with organic matter.... or compost with sand or any other mineral?

That was very helpful
could you please explain the "other mineral" I thimk you lost me

You are making a joke, aren't you?

[atouchofnature]

Here's a highly-regarded testing lab closer to you:

CLC Labs Westerville OH (Columbus suburb)
Phone 614 - 888-1663

They are very helpful and will send you a price list and a kit with all the information you need for submitting samples.

Thanks. I will give them a call as well.

[starry night]

That was very helpful
could you please explain the "other mineral" I thimk you lost me

You are making a joke, aren't you?

I think Kiril was alluding to Turfman's statement about the tests being "substantially" different because soil is soil only and compost is compost only.

[Smallaxe]

Be sure to let us know what you find. This part of the country is littered with manure piles. We just use them because they are handy and will always improve any soil. What is "Actually", in there never came up...

[Kiril]

That was very helpful
could you please explain the "other mineral" I thimk you lost me

You are making a joke, aren't you?

No, I am not making a joke.

To state a soil is nothing more than sand/silt/clay is incorrect.

Some examples would be Histosols (ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/NSSC/Soil_Orders/histosols.pdf) and Mollisols (ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/NSSC/Soil_Orders/mollisols.pdf)

And to state compost is nothing more than organic matter can also be incorrect, depending on the source material.

[oOTurfmanoO]

No, I am not making a joke.

To state a soil is nothing more than sand/silt/clay is incorrect.

Some examples would be Histosols (ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/NSSC/Soil_Orders/histosols.pdf) and Mollisols (ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/NSSC/Soil_Orders/mollisols.pdf)

And to state compost is nothing more than organic matter can also be incorrect, depending on the source material.


Sure, you are correct with your statement. However, this topic is not really going that deep nor is it that scientific, but your knowledge of certain soil shows you are well versed an/or educated in the field and that is great!

I simply made my reply based on what I know/what I have learned and my past experiences while dealing with the lab associated with he provided link.

Coincidentally, we do the same thing with our horse manure, The initial statge was to get it tested and see amend accordingly. Gut instinct was to get a soil test, I called the lab to confirm before spending additional time and $$. That contributes to what I know and what I stated.

We could go on and on about what is and is not a soil or compost, but I'm sure you can agree, that's not necessary.

[oOTurfmanoO]

So what if I have an organic soil or soil with organic matter.... or compost with sand or any other mineral?

Re-read your post, you answer your own question.:clapping: