Trench Collapse in Atlanta

[AWJ Services]

http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/contractor-killed-in-trench-163844.html

Actually they said the spoils slid into the hole. 9 foot deep trench?

Here is a video

http://www.wsbtv.com/video/21313342/index.html

It has rained almost non stop for 2 weeks.

Most Contractors work extremely reckless. It makes it hard to legitimately run a business that follows even the min safety guidelines.

[Scag48]

That's too bad. Amazes me how some folks disregard safety so blatantly, it's not good for anyone in the industry when things like this happen.

[mudmaker]

It says it was a habitat house. I wonder who is responsible when you are using volunteer help.

[AWJ Services]

That's too bad. Amazes me how some folks disregard safety so blatantly, it's not good for anyone in the industry when things like this happen.

Dumb question but who makes any type of shoring for narrow trenches?

[Scag48]

Dumb question but who makes any type of shoring for narrow trenches?

How narrow we talking? I honestly can't think of a shoring MFG. off the top of my head but I know there is shoring available.

I noticed the machine was a smaller Bobcat hoe with a fairly small bucket, they may have only been digging 12"-18" wide. There are still options for trench safety even at that width. Shoring is the biggest PITA out of the three choices; sloping, shielding, and shoring. Shielding is out of the question with such a small hoe, you'd never be able to drag a box. They could have sloped the trench, however at 9 feet deep assuming the worst in class C soils they would've had to drag a 2:1 for 5 feet, that's a whole lot of material.

[Gravel Rat]

You don't like to hear a accident happening especially on a Habitat for Humanity project.

There is no hope in h*ll I would go into a narrow 9 foot deep trench without shoring.

[AWJ Services]

How narrow we talking? I honestly can't think of a shoring MFG. off the top of my head but I know there is shoring available.

I noticed the machine was a smaller Bobcat hoe with a fairly small bucket, they may have only been digging 12"-18" wide. There are still options for trench safety even at that width. Shoring is the biggest PITA out of the three choices; sloping, shielding, and shoring. Shielding is out of the question with such a small hoe, you'd never be able to drag a box. They could have sloped the trench, however at 9 feet deep assuming the worst in class C soils they would've had to drag a 2:1 for 5 feet, that's a whole lot of material.

Many jobs just do not allow sloping due to obstacles.

They actually said the guy fell into the trench and then the spoils slid on top of him but I also see in the pics the excavator slid into the trench.
One of the biggest dangers I see is the spoils to close to the trench.

[Gravel Rat]

I can't see falling in would cause it but I can see if the spoils were too close to the edge and the person was walking along the edge and it gave out the guy would have fallen in and the dirt on top of the person.

[AWJ Services]

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/news/21312363/detail.html#

Here is another story on it with a picture and a video.

[bobcat_ron]

Cheap, cheap, cheap.
They must have been idiots, and I hate to say it, but if you are that dumb to dig a 9 foot deep hole with a small machine and send another fellow idiot in to the hole with out trench boxes or any type of shoring they deserved to be buried.

[Gravel Rat]

I had a look at the second video and I have to agree with Ron it looks like it was a contractor that that was trying to cut corners.

That accident reminds me of this youtube video

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM2z8DMDCAE

[AWJ Services]

Cheap, cheap, cheap.
They must have been idiots, and I hate to say it, but if you are that dumb to dig a 9 foot deep hole with a small machine and send another fellow idiot in to the hole with out trench boxes or any type of shoring they deserved to be buried.

Welcome to Construction in Atlanta.

The Company involved is a big company.

[YellowDogSVC]

Many jobs just do not allow sloping due to obstacles.

They actually said the guy fell into the trench and then the spoils slid on top of him but I also see in the pics the excavator slid into the trench.
One of the biggest dangers I see is the spoils to close to the trench.

you make a good point here. As a noob with an excavator, I want to do things right.
I'd love someone to post some do's and don't for excvator work. I will be mostly doing oak wilt trenching and burying animals so nobody should be in my trenches BUT...you never know.

Also, does everyone call before they dig on larger tracts of land for animal burial? I think I lost a job because I told the rancher to figure out where the animal was going and call 811 since I was the sub. Since time is critical on an animal burial, I thought there was an exception to the call before you dig rule for those cases?

Anyway, I just want to be as safe as possible given the circumstances.

[AWJ Services]

you make a good point here. As a noob with an excavator, I want to do things right.
I'd love someone to post some do's and don't for excvator work. I will be mostly doing oak wilt trenching and burying animals so nobody should be in my trenches BUT...you never know.

Also, does everyone call before they dig on larger tracts of land for animal burial? I think I lost a job because I told the rancher to figure out where the animal was going and call 811 since I was the sub. Since time is critical on an animal burial, I thought there was an exception to the call before you dig rule for those cases?

Anyway, I just want to be as safe as possible given the circumstances.



In emergency situations you can dig without calling 811.
I recomend you call the 811 and ask them if they offer a Class on there regulations.
It costs 250 dollars here and is worth every penny.Of course most people take it as a result of a violation of the dig law.

[YellowDogSVC]

In emergency situations you can dig without calling 811.
I recomend you call the 811 and ask them if they offer a Class on there regulations.
It costs 250 dollars here and is worth every penny.Of course most people take it as a result of a violation of the dig law.

I have had people look at my crosseyed when I tell them I need to call before I dig for postholes thus wait 48 hours. Uneducated public and contractors alike. I usually can't get to anyone within two days due to being booked (except for emergencies) so I don't mind the 48 hour rule. What bothers me, though, is that here in Texas, I see very few entities on the list of utilities that report versus what i know is in the ground around here. It requires a little detective work that, in the case of my competitors, they won't do so I am at a little bit of a disadvantage. Kind of like the insurance thing. i carry quite a bit but a number of competitors that I know don't carry any! I'm still trying to get clarification on what my insurance covers when I dig..

[AWJ Services]

I have had people look at my crosseyed when I tell them I need to call before I dig for postholes thus wait 48 hours. Uneducated public and contractors alike. I usually can't get to anyone within two days due to being booked (except for emergencies) so I don't mind the 48 hour rule. What bothers me, though, is that here in Texas, I see very few entities on the list of utilities that report versus what i know is in the ground around here. It requires a little detective work that, in the case of my competitors, they won't do so I am at a little bit of a disadvantage. Kind of like the insurance thing. i carry quite a bit but a number of competitors that I know don't carry any! I'm still trying to get clarification on what my insurance covers when I dig..

811 will only locate the public utilities. Private is up to you.

Ditch witch offers there locator for about 3000 dollars and then you can do it your self and not wait. It will tell depth as well.
You can even go passive and sweep a large area like where you are going to do fence posts and as long as electricity is moving through the underground lines it will register that it is there.

I deal with this crap all of the time because we have many homes on 5 to 10 acre tracts with out buildings and utility ROWs.

[Gravel Rat]

If your worried about any utilities one call saves a bunch of head aches and money.

A contractor from out of the area doing some utlity poles where impatient they didn't want to wait for the locator guy. Big mistake it cost the company the profit from the job they were working on.

When it comes to utility work and working in deep trenches the ditch b*tch working in the trench his or her safety comes first.

A open trench there shouldn't be anybody near the edge of it if its over waist height. Once you get above waist height and I'am talking about somebody 5'8" to 6 feet you need to be carefull.

I have been a ditch b*tch many times you gotta be alert all the time and watching for falling in material. Never step on the edge of a trench.

[Scag48]

AWJ, you're right about sloping. Rarely works out in established residential neighborhoods, just not enough room to drag a slope.

[ksss]

AWJ, you're right about sloping. Rarely works out in established residential neighborhoods, just not enough room to drag a slope.




I had to use a trench box on really shitty job this Summer. To say it was a nightmare was an understatement. The TK handled a 8'X14' trench box like a champ (it was alum. of course). I got it from CAT rental 100 bucks a day and worth every penny.

[Scag48]

I had to use a trench box on really shitty job this Summer. To say it was a nightmare was an understatement. The TK handled a 8'X14' trench box like a champ (it was alum. of course). I got it from CAT rental 100 bucks a day and worth every penny.

For new install utility trenches, boxes are the way if your hoe can drag the required size box. If you're having to dodge a bunch of stuff underground, shoring works the best as it's a more "custom" fit. Sloping only really works out if you're on a huge site and can stomach the cost of moving about 3X more material, on average, than you would to dig the trench and compact it correctly on the way back in.

See, there's plenty of good in Cat rental. Is your Cat dealer out there Western States?

[ksss]

For new install utility trenches, boxes are the way if your hoe can drag the required size box. If you're having to dodge a bunch of stuff underground, shoring works the best as it's a more "custom" fit. Sloping only really works out if you're on a huge site and can stomach the cost of moving about 3X more material, on average, than you would to dig the trench and compact it correctly on the way back in.

See, there's plenty of good in Cat rental. Is your Cat dealer out there Western States?

It is. I reopened an account there after having one some years ago but it was closed to inactivity. I even got a $100.00 gas card with it.:cool2:

I have no problems with CAT rental. I am friends with the main sales guy for the rental side. He has really helped me out several times. Some of the sales people there suckass, and the equipment is marginal at best for the things I need, but overall they are a good tool to have in the tool box.:cool2:

[bobcat_ron]

There's no excuse for not having a trench box on site, we even had to use a 4x4x8 aluminum trench box earlier this year just to get a guy in the trench to measure the pipe, 10 seconds to measure the pipe and he was out, all that time to assemble and disassemble the box, just for 10 seconds of actual use.

[Gravel Rat]

We don't have sewers it is all septic fields so your not dealing with hooking up to a street sewer. Maybe that area requires you to use clay tile drain pipe. If it was plastic you could have glued it all together and dropped it into the trench. Where your hooking up to the street you could build some shoring or had the trench raked back to keep it from falling in.

One thing about around here your not dealing with really soft ground you can dig a trench and walk a excavator along the edge and it doesn't move.

Most trenches require dynamite or a rock breaker. Not uncommon to dig 10 tons of blast rock out of a trench for a water line that is only 20 feet long.

You dig 12-24 inches down your into rock most likely then it is time to call the blasting contractor. If your doing a new water line install you call the blaster a week before you even start the job. Even if you don't hit any rock you need the blasting contractor on stand by.

[AWJ Services]

Companies do sewer hook ups here near nothing on new construction.

Impossible for me to do them safely and make money so I just do not do them.

Had to turn down a septic job because of trench depth.
The yard had about 6 foot of fill dirt and they wanted the drainfield under the fill dirt.Talk about a trainwreck waiting to happen.

[Gravel Rat]

I'am surprised the city/muni allows them to tap into the main sewer. I know with the places around here that do have sewers not any contractor can do a hook up. With the muni sewers the municipal backhoe does the digging and the muni employees do the hook ups.

More and more plumbing companys are buying their own mini excavator which isn't good. For one they don't have any experience with one so that causes problems. Two they are undercutting a excavator contractor and trying to save a homeowner money.

One thing about septic systems and septic fields no Tom Dick and Harry can do them anymore. You got to be septic certified you went to school got your installer/engineering ticket. Now there is pretty much all the same price for different style drain fields.

[AWJ Services]

I'am surprised the city/muni allows them to tap into the main sewer. I know with the places around here that do have sewers not any contractor can do a hook up. With the muni sewers the municipal backhoe does the digging and the muni employees do the hook ups.

More and more plumbing companys are buying their own mini excavator which isn't good. For one they don't have any experience with one so that causes problems. Two they are undercutting a excavator contractor and trying to save a homeowner money.

One thing about septic systems and septic fields no Tom Dick and Harry can do them anymore. You got to be septic certified you went to school got your installer/engineering ticket. Now there is pretty much all the same price for different style drain fields.

The Tap has to be done by the County or city.
Then we are allowed to hook to the tap that is already in place.

[Gravel Rat]

I'am still suprised the city allows these gypo outfits hooking up sewer connections.

[AWJ Services]

Trust me it is crazy here.

Most companies use Immigrants that produce fraudelent papers to get jobs so then the employer has empirical power over the person.
The employee is from a country with no saftey what so ever in the work place so they are ignorant towards the proper safe way to work.
If he opens his mouth or refuses to do a job he is fired and he has no recourse.