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View Full Version : Over 'n Out vs Top Choice


TPnTX
10-19-2009, 05:51 PM
Top Choice is 200.00 for 50lbs @ 0.0143% fipronil

Over 'n out is 80.00 for 40lbs @ 0.0103% fipronil

Anyone tried the Over 'n Out. I don't mind paying for something that works but that a big difference in price. for a 7% gain.

Ric
10-19-2009, 06:41 PM
Top Choice uses professional Ink on the bag therefore the price difference. BTW This is not new. Top Choice has always used professional Ink on the Bag and therefore it does a better job because it says professional grade Ink instead of Homeowner grade Ink.

gregory
10-19-2009, 08:03 PM
Top Choice uses professional Ink on the bag therefore the price difference. BTW This is not new. Top Choice has always used professional Ink on the Bag and therefore it does a better job because it says professional grade Ink instead of Homeowner grade Ink.

lmao thats good stuff ric........

TPnTX
10-19-2009, 08:05 PM
so you have used over n out?

ted putnam
10-19-2009, 08:18 PM
so you have used over n out?

:laugh::laugh: LMAO!!!!:laugh::laugh:

He didn't say that!!:laugh:

Turf Dawg
10-19-2009, 09:30 PM
Here is some reading for you www.pestproducts.com/top-choice.htm I cannot verify about the ink, but that might make a difference.

Ric
10-19-2009, 11:12 PM
Here is some reading for you www.pestproducts.com/top-choice.htm I cannot verify about the ink, but that might make a difference.

Turf Dawg

The residual of any pesticide or Fertilizer has more to do with the CEC (Cation Exchange Capacity) of the soil than the Formulation. In Sandy Soil you can expect very little Residual where as Clay soil might have years of Residual.

I have posted a ton of info about Ant Control and Top Choice here on Lawn site. One point I try to make over and over is the Missed Marketing opportunities by offering a once a year service. BTW Over and Out controls Fleas Ticks and Mole Crickets etc in my sandy soil. However I only use it for Mole Crickets in early summer when Mole Crickets are best controlled as lymphs.

TPnTX
10-20-2009, 06:34 AM
that link wouldn't work. It's 5am probably down for maint but I think its the one that made me wonder in the first place.

There is a guy in a nearby town that runs a farm seed and fertilizer outfit. He's in his late 50's or early 60's. Real nice guy and is extremely knowledgable. He carries all kinds of stuff and is perfectly willing to offer up advice. He's also willing to tell you when he doesn't know the answer to a question. He says Over 'n Out is as good but like anything else you have to make you own decisions so I started trying to read up on it.

As bayer likes to point out a .004% difference is significant.

Over 'n out is referred to as 'home owner' and TP "professional". Well there's your .004 right there:rolleyes:

TP is also mentioned for commercial and "high end" residential. AKA "rich" ants.

Sometime things are written only for the gullible to see.

so I thought I'd come here and punish myself further. I did a search. It's pretty scattered out regarding TP. I didn't see anything on O'nO.

I'll look again Ric for the ton of stuff on here by you. Thanks.

TPnTX
10-20-2009, 06:54 AM
oh you mean the one titled Fire Ants? Yeah, thats some good info there but the title is wrong. It should be "Lacuna" which in latin means "a hole". See you have raised the bar :)

TPnTX
10-20-2009, 07:12 AM
I'll try your sandy soil method. I live in NE Texas. Black thick clay dirt. Except where I live. There is some ancient river that deposited sandy loam in a vein about 5-6 miles wide and who knows how long. So my 14 acres is sand. Some call it sugar sand. Whatever. I glad I read your info because I would really like to control ant around my house which is a big area.

Ric
10-20-2009, 09:51 AM
oh you mean the one titled Fire Ants? Yeah, thats some good info there but the title is wrong. It should be "Lacuna" which in latin means "a hole". See you have raised the bar :)

TPnTX

That "Lacuna" might be better Known as Pandora's Lacuna. There are a ton of methods for controlling Fire Ants. Hopefully you searched my posts from back around 2003. Baits can be a very economic method on large acreage. However baits take time to work. Timing can also be a issue since there are better windows of Opportunity.

Sugar sand gets it's name from the fact when dry it feels just like sugar running through your fingers. Just like water runs through sand, so do water soluble chemicals. IMHO TC or O&O are not good choices for Sugar Sandy. Clay soil is a different story.

BTW You must be a homeowner because Lawn Boys have no interest in raising the bar.


In Edit

TC & O&O both take 4 to 6 weeks to gain control. Baits also take that amount of time. Therefore the only advantage to TC-O&O is the residual which doesn't last on sugar sand. Why pay the price for TC or O&O???

TPnTX
10-21-2009, 09:07 AM
Actually I am both home owner and Law boy. You can call me boy because you are what 70? or something. Man...no wonder all you want to do is chase ants :) Im kidding I hope I make it to 70. I hope I make it to 60. I dont smoke or anything so I guess I got as good a chance as the next guy.

Anyway I did search your posts but I gotta tell you, All I found was you saying how tired you are of typing and you don't have time to keeping repeating yourself. All the while repeating yourself. Thats okay my father in law does that all the time. And he mumbles a lot too. I hope somebody points those things out to me when I'm your age.

Ill keeping searching until dig up this ant info. Then I'll bump it up for you. :)

Sand. Yep you are right about the sugar sand. I wouldn't trade it for anything. All my friends even those who live close by have texas black clay. All I have to do is wait a day maybe less and my property is dry at least to where you can walk on it. The black clay, man we're talking days before you can walk on it without your boots turning into snow shoes.

Most of the properties I have to worry about are the black clay. I haven't pushed the top choice option. The only one is a customer who asked for it last year. His and his dads property and each one took a whole bag. So I watched for the last year and it did a great job. I msg'd him back the other day and he said do it again.

Thats when I found out it went up to 200 a bag. I called and asked the guy at the farm/seed place who's prices are excellent. He told me about O'nO being the same thing. After reading up on it, bayer does a good job expressing the importance of that .04% difference. What I dont wnat to do is use a different product to save money and it not do a good job for THIS customer.

I'm considering your point about being in front of your customers. I'm not sure how much weight that holds with me. I'm pretty much in front of them anyway. I dont work on crew but I stay in touch with my customers. As a matter of fact, communication is part of my sales plan. Some appreciate it. Some don't. So do and don't know it.

Also if you treat once a year. If you want to get out and get in front of your customers, you can do that with out "re-treating" just get out there. Call it inspections. Qualtity control. Whatever.

I'm not disagreeing. Just making another point. What is left is the cost. I seems to me it would be a wash. The high price of the product or the high price of labor.

Back to ants. There is a new ant in town. Crazy ants. Have you heard of them?

Ric
10-21-2009, 11:40 AM
TPnTX

Crazy Ants are more of a structural Pest and not a big problem in yards. Non Professionals can best control them with Terro Ant Baits and a Perimeter spray. A general insecticide applied in a yard should control Crazy Ants out side.

Here is one of the Links you may be looking for.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=86774

TPnTX
10-22-2009, 06:31 AM
thanks Ric I'll read on...

Man not one lol about my old man jokes? now I feel bad.