Doubles trouble....

[FrankenScagMachines]

I'm having trouble.... double trouble....
I put on doubles on our 1993 Wheel Horse 520H garden tractor. It has a 48" side discharge deck. The doubles are all medium lift blades, no gators or extra high lifts. It has a 20hp twin Onan engine and the doubles are not helping any at all like they should. They aren't helping chop up the clippings any more than singles, they are seemingly causing more discharge than regulars maybe due to extra lift, and they're causing a ton of blowout around the deck, which is maybe 4 1/2" deep and about 4" deep in front. It's causing so much blowout that it's getting in my face and eyes even with sunglasses and a bunch is getting stuck to the flywheel shroud screen (air cooled engine) and I have to stop every couple rows and clean it off, and once it got so bad (before I realized it was sticking) that the overheat light came on. Plus, my stripes are not coming out as nicely as with singles. I'm really DISSATISFIED with doubles.. anyone else having these troubles with them? I am running the engine about 3500 - 3700 rpms approx, no less than 3500. Last week I didn't have to clean off the shroud screen but once or twice, for 2 acres, and no **** got in my face, and it left great stripes and cut. I am really upset by this (obviously) and that was just the back yard. I still had to double cut to get acceptable results and like i said, the stripes were not that good. I am going to take them off before doing the rest of the yard so I can compare the two.... What am I doing wrong, if anything? Soon i'm getting Gator blades for this and I'll see if they are as good as they claim, but as for double blades on this mower and tractor setup, they are as good as junk to me! I'm through with them until I get another mower.
Thanks!
Eric

[trimmasters]

Perhaps the deck on a consumer grade mower is not as capable of handeling double blades as a commercal mower? from what i remember the deck on our old wheel horse was not near as deep or have the same baffle system as on my exmark.

[Bunton Guy]

Nope I tried the same thing on my bunton hydro 16hp last week...hated it SAME results to the dot as listed above. ****** stripes to much clippings....looked like it was even cutting it shorter no fun no good.

[gravedigger5]

I just started using doubles on my 48" Howard Price. Both sets are high lift. No blow out, shreds good, and my decent stripes got better. Check your pitch front to back, should be about 1/4" lower in front (blade height). Don't know if that will help with blowout, but should help stripe better. Goodluck, Marc




Are We Having Fun Yet???

[FrankenScagMachines]

I already checked the pitch. It's perfect. BuntonGuy, you know what I'm talking about then.... this deck is built like a tank - same as the tractor, and it has a good blade speed and good cut with single blades. I took off the doubles to cut the rest (front yard) and it worked great. These are getting worn enough to skip a tad between blades and don't hold a sharp edge and are hard to sharpen so that's why i'm getting gators and I wanted to try them anyway. Oh yea, it will cut alittle lower with doubles because you have come down a tad lower (blade thickness) because of the second blade. I lifted the deck a tad to compensate for this though. Apparently not all machines are like this because i've heard alot of good about them. The engine did load down alittle even with a 2.4" per horsepower ratio. It doesn't even notice the single blades and it cuts and stripes great this way. Well so much for that. I had tried them before and had same results (on same mower) well thought today I'd give it another try... for now i'll stick to singles on this mower. I'll still give doubles a shot on different mowers in the future but this tractor 'weren't meant for them' .. I have messed around with pitch on mowers to see if it really does help stripes and have not noticed much difference, if any. Maybe it's just our type of grass. If blowout was the only problem, i'd maybe make a flap but i'm still disgusted with the rest!
Later,
Eric

[MikeLT1Z28]

never tried em but i hear exmark's with a mulch kit don't like them. 65hoss has an encore he mostly uses for chopping leaves before running the lazer over them to pick them up and it runs doubles. does good on grass and leaves.

bunton guy, i'm not a moderator and it's no big deal to me personally, but there are some younger folks here that post and read. any way you can *** out some of that word? like i said, just sort of keeps it clean for the young and professional.

[strickdad]

the first question is, did you guys leave a spacer out when you added the other blade ?? if you didnt it will put the blade down lower in the deck.. this will cause blow out, bad stripes, etc.. next thing is (bushhog) you may not have enough blade tip speed to run doubles, alot of tractor type mowers dont.. (bunton) you may not have enough h.p. to be running doubles.. does it pull the motor down?? blades not turning as fast?? anyway it all comes down to blade tip speed. if you aint got it you want benefit from running doubles. you also need the h.p. to keep the blade tip speed up when in high or thick grass..

[SLS]

strickdad...you beat me to it. :)

It is ALL about blade tip speed...which garden tractors don't have. I doubt that the Wheel Horse gets anywhere near 18,500 fps. Even with the engine turning 3800 rpm one must take into consideration the effect that the deck pulleys circumferance [sp?] have on the reduction ratio vs. rate of speed. And the blade to baffle placement is also critical to vacuum and blowout issues.

About doubles cutting lower:

Exmark blades are 1/4 inch thick so one must compensate the deck heigth adjustment or you will be cutting 1/4 inch lowere than you think you are. Add a spacer between the blades and it really gets lower.

[FrankenScagMachines]

Strickdad-
it doesn't have any spacers to start with. As mentioned, it's 20hp to 48" and I know that's plenty of power because some GT's [used to] (in early 90's) came with 12hp and a 48" deck was optional. Not recommended, optional. But that's beside the point. This thing does have a high blade speed (no not as much as a commercial mower) and two pulleys to select to put the belt in. I put it on the bigger pulley on the motor which is what they say to use so that it has a faster speed. This thing cuts fine at about 5 mph but any faster and it starts streaking between blades because the blades are worn so bad. Yes, all the belts are tight.
Eric

[65hoss]

Stickdad is correct.

Some mowers can not handle doubles. Just a fact. If its cutting lower its because you added a blade to the bottom and it dropped the cutting height down. Also, since you don't have spacers, by dropping that blade down, you created the blowout. That is mostly why your having a wall of debris all over you and the mower.

Comes down to this. Not all mowers are the same. What works on 1 doesn't always work on the other. Trial and error. Just like blade combos on doubles. The combo I like may be different on another brand mower. Sounds like you've tried double on the tractor and it doesn't like them. Get a set of gator blades and try single gators. That should help chop up the clippings better without losing the cut quality.

[SLS]

BushHogBoy sez:

"This thing cuts fine at about 5 mph but any faster and it starts streaking between blades because the blades are worn so bad."



....hmmmmm......................I wonder if some good blades would help? nah.

[FrankenScagMachines]

They would help for that but not doubles. That's why i'm getting Gators! Need new ones but want a chopping system. Gators sound good a friend of mine works on lawnmowers and when he puts new blades on he uses Gators if he can get them for that model. He likes them.
Eric

[SLS]

Gator blades are great...when it is real dry or it is leaf mulching time.

But the first time you mow in grass that is wet from rain or dew-look out....CLUMP CITY! You wind up with most of the lawn you are cutting....STUCK TO THE UNDERSIDE OF YOUR DECK. :eek:

Try it... and you will see why most of us have repeatedly posted this little tip on threads about 'double blade' combos.

Plus, because the vanes on gator blades are serrated,...'lift' is non-existant. :(

I only use them as a top blade on a double blade combo...and only in dry conditions. As a primary (single) cutting blade they are pretty worthless because of the lack of 'lift'...and clump like crazy at the mere thought of moisture.

[FrankenScagMachines]

I had never heard that about Gators. The webpage says that they lift instead of push down "like most mulching blades" I'm not saying that they are wrong or right, i'm just saying that now I do not know what to beleive and I know that quite a few people around here use them and like them so I don't know what to think now.... anyone else?
As you all know, you can't usually let the weather decide when you'll mow and I usually end up mowing when it's damp or wet out. As it is, with regular blades, it clumps under the deck pretty good anyway so I don't know how much worse you could make it.
Thanx,
Eric

[TLS]

If you want a good cut with Gators, you'd better go with Gator Magnums, or Gator Hi-Lifts. They still cant compete with the cut of a fully sharpened solid foil high lift blade.

For me.....I'll stick with "normal" blades!

[Robert Pruitt]

gators are no good on wet grass. i only use extra high lift TORO blades on my great dane & toro mowers.:blob2:

[FrankenScagMachines]

If you all are saying how Gators aren't all that good, then how come I'm always hearing good stuff about them on here, but hardly ever hear any bad????
Robert-
Do you use Toro blades on the Great Dane, or do you mean you use just OEM stock blades on your mowers?
I figure I can try them and if I don't like them I guess I could return them if they're in good shape??? Does anyone know if a dealer will take them back?
Seriously, i've never heard anything bad about them before so it's strange that all of a sudden people are booing them :confused: ....
Thanks,
Eric

[Scag48]

I don't think you have enough ponies to sling doubles. Who cares what they did in the 90's with GT's or whatever. They used to have 10 Hps running 48's back in the day. But notice they didn't leave a cut that is exceptional enough to hire somebody to do it. If I'm paying someone to mow my lawn, I want it to look good. Gators aren't made for lift. Kinda like how helicopters don't have serrated edges on the ends of the blades. Wonder what would happen if they did that? It wouldn't even get off the ground. All that downward pressure just got pushed right through the serration and out the bottom, so it would be ironic to buy Gators thinking that they would give you lift. And they suck in wet grass. I've talked with guys that mow in Seattle, where it rains about 30 days in the summer and they HATE 'EM. So stick will solid foil and keep them SHARP. Then sell the Toro and buy a commercial mower that will use doubles because there is no way that Wheel Horse can generate 18,500 FPS. Later.

[geogunn]

with the limited experience I have running doubles, they didn't work for me.

my 14 hp engine couldn't pull them in tall grass, such as that over septic drain fields.

high lift blades have been great for me but I haven't tried the hi-lift gator style yet.

GEO

[SLS]

BushHogBoy:

Here is some interesting reading on gators, clumps, and one
where someone mentions NOT using 'doubles' on riding tractors.

I hope this helps explain some things. :)


http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?s=
&threadid=28941&highlight=clumps

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?s=
&threadid=29006&highlight=clumps

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?s=
&threadid=28477&highlight=clumps

[SLS]

Oh, and another one:

http://lawnsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29520

[LawnPro in NC]

Beating a dead horse. I tried doubles on a Woods.... Didn't like them. I tried Doubles on a Gravely And ditto. Now no matter how good people say they work I don' care for them.

In other words if you don't like them leave them alone.

[johnhenry]

I use gators even on my 21 wb's and never had a problem with them. But it has to be on the right stuff. As far as doubles there are in the same boat. Great on some stuff and not on other. As far as your wheelhorse doubles arent a good idea. But try the gator on them. I have a pair on a 416 that I use in the fields around my barn .Works great