Triple B Excavating future purchase?

[bobcat_ron]

My brother invited me to tag along with him to the Great West Equipment dealer to see the new Volvo EC305CL he is considering leasing/purchasing, very stout machine, we will get it on a job site some time soon to try it out, I have my doubts, it's an 82,000 pound machine fitted out with our requirements, and if it fails the tip test, then he will grab a new EC290C, no demo needed as we know what it can do (we owned one for 2 years)

Lots of new equipment there, Kiewet is working on the Highway across the road, and they bought a new EC460 road builders special, says a lot about Volvo, Kiewet buys DIRECT from Caterpillar, no sales people to pay, then they buy a Volvo for it's fuel economy. Now Great West is seeing more sales.

Big brother:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3495.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3496.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3504.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3510.jpg

Since Volvo has their own internal cab FOPS, we will get this cab guarding on the machine:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3512.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3513.jpg

$575,000 for this baby:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3518.jpg

New 210C getting some service work:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3517.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3515.jpg

New EC235:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3516.jpg

Some used crap:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3508.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3507.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3498.jpg

Right next to some other crap: :laugh:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3505.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3506.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3503.jpg

A rare EC140 with a blade:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3502.jpg

New EC460 road builder special, Kiewet has one of these:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3499.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3500.jpg

Fully outfitted EC235:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/philly_hill_billy/Pictures3497.jpg

My brother (Tom) trying it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_NsksLackM

[Junior M]

is that a 30ton machine yall are looking at?

[bobcat_ron]

is that a 30ton machine yall are looking at?

40 ton, damn near the same weight as the rental 330CL we rent, the 290CL is a 32 ton machine with our options, so in the end, there is a $40,000 difference between the 305 and the 290, with the 305 being heavier and in the same class (minus weight) as the 25-30 ton class excavators.

I do love the Volvo's damn nice cabs and controls, and we get their S2 hydraulic coupler.

[Gravel Rat]

I don't think you guys are going to like the zero tailswing machine. I know one of the forestry companies has couple Komatsu zero tailswing in that size and the operators hate the machines. They are too tippy you can't road build with the machine. The contractor is stuck with the machines.

There is another contractor I know he has a Volvo 35 ton he loves the machine it is a roadbuilder machine with full tailswing. It is better than the Hitachi's he had before. Lots of power and good on fuel.

Forestry contractors will not buy 40 ton machines anymore the biggest they go is 35 ton class. They are easier to move a 40 ton machine isn't legal to move without stripping it. You get a company like Ranger Transport they wil charge you 800-1000 dollars to move a 45 ton machine.

Pacific Blasting uses pretty much nothing but Volvo hoes.

[bobcat_ron]

I don't think you guys are going to like the zero tailswing machine. I know one of the forestry companies has couple Komatsu zero tailswing in that size and the operators hate the machines. They are too tippy you can't road build with the machine. The contractor is stuck with the machines.

There is another contractor I know he has a Volvo 35 ton he loves the machine it is a roadbuilder machine with full tailswing. It is better than the Hitachi's he had before. Lots of power and good on fuel.

Forestry contractors will not buy 40 ton machines anymore the biggest they go is 35 ton class. They are easier to move a 40 ton machine isn't legal to move without stripping it. You get a company like Ranger Transport they wil charge you 800-1000 dollars to move a 45 ton machine.

Pacific Blasting uses pretty much nothing but Volvo hoes.


Well just like when I wanted to buy my skid steer, the deal says "pending successful demonstration".

I still like the 290 better, the cab is just a hair wider across the front window.

[P.Services]

i ran the pi$$ out of a 321d cat and i didnt find it tippy at all. now my dads pc-200 couldnt was waaaaaay more tippy then it was. i was very suprised to say the least.

[YellowDogSVC]

Well just like when I wanted to buy my skid steer, the deal says "pending successful demonstration".

I still like the 290 better, the cab is just a hair wider across the front window.

oops, I thought I read "bending for successful penetration". That's a lot of money!

Oh, and why do you need the cab guarding? Demo work?

[J. Peterson Grading]

That new Volvo is Sweet. One of the big Boys is running a 460C just up the road from me.

I looked at getting a 140 last year, but the work for that fell through.

Can't wait to hear more about that new one of yours though.

J.

[P.Services]

J, dont you have a volvo mini?

[ARP]

I'm curious Ron, what's your special "tip test" consist of? A zero tail swing machine might be in my future as well... I'd like to know how to best test them against their conventional tail swing counterparts.

You're the expert! :drinkup:

[J. Peterson Grading]

Yes I have a ECR58 and love it. Been thinking about trading the Ditch Witch off for a ECR38.

J.

[P.Services]

you all ready answered my question then. im still testing the mini-midi market looking at diffrent machines. im thinking a 50 size machine and then later on a large 200-300 machine.

[P.Services]

but i do like the size of that ecr88...... heck i cant decide. for now i rent!!! 308c cr on the way!

[J. Peterson Grading]

The ECR88 is the biggest pile of crap ever built!!!!! They can't even handle a 24" tooth bucket digging out of a loose pile of dirt! Huge POS!!!.

I had one on rent for a month, I did a couple jobs, Hated it, complained, then Volvo got sick of me and gave me my 58 for a month free. I ended up buying the 58.

The 88 has no hydraulic power what so ever. Its gut-less, and its hard on fuel. Vovlo tried and tried to figure out the problems with it. It would shudder and shake like it was low on Hyro-fliud, then it would act like it had air in the system. It would do all this under even the smallest of loads. it was so frusterating to operate it. Then on a very public job, (Along a verry busy highway) My brand new "Rental" ECR88 threw both of its tracks. That was a fun day.

I wanted so badly to like it. But I just couldn't force myself.

J.

[P.Services]

jeeee wiz!!! maybe thats why they seem to sell cheap.

i think if i get a mini it will be a 50d a midi will be a pc78-mr and a real machine will be this baby i have drooled over for hours on end...

http://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=6823284

[J. Peterson Grading]

Why do you need 3.

I have employees that used to run a Yanmar 100, and they both say that my 58 will out dig a machine thats 2 times the size. I also agree, My 58 has allowed us to do things we see other crews doing with a Cat 312.

The 50 to 60 size will supprise you. They did me.

J.

[Dirtman2007]

The ECR88 is the biggest pile of crap ever built!!!!! They can't even handle a 24" tooth bucket digging out of a loose pile of dirt! Huge POS!!!.

I had one on rent for a month, I did a couple jobs, Hated it, complained, then Volvo got sick of me and gave me my 58 for a month free. I ended up buying the 58.

The 88 has no hydraulic power what so ever. Its gut-less, and its hard on fuel. Vovlo tried and tried to figure out the problems with it. It would shudder and shake like it was low on Hyro-fliud, then it would act like it had air in the system. It would do all this under even the smallest of loads. it was so frusterating to operate it. Then on a very public job, (Along a verry busy highway) My brand new "Rental" ECR88 threw both of its tracks. That was a fun day.

I wanted so badly to like it. But I just couldn't force myself.

J.



I noticed the same thing while I was at the expo, I was able to try out the ec 88, 58, and the 38?or 35. out of them all I like the 58 better, most responsive machine of them all. thats whats great about those things, you can go up and down in size and really get a feel for what you need.

[Dirtman2007]

Hey ron are ya'll going to get a thumb put on this machine for demo work? if so I can give you some pics of mine, I know you like the monster thumb I have on mine!

[P.Services]

ohhh no i wasnt saying i need three i was saying i need to decide between one of them.

and yes before anyone asks i do have a very steady supply of highly profitable work for a 270 machine but i would have to change the direction of my biz 100%

[bobcat_ron]

oops, I thought I read "bending for successful penetration". That's a lot of money!

Oh, and why do you need the cab guarding? Demo work?

It's for those moments of complete distraction when we tear down buildings and a stray chunk of wood or rebar goes whipping around, or branches are falling and we don't want to lose a window.


I'm curious Ron, what's your special "tip test" consist of? A zero tail swing machine might be in my future as well... I'd like to know how to best test them against their conventional tail swing counterparts.

You're the expert! :drinkup:

The ti test is fill the bucket up (in this case it will have a 72" clean up on it) hang it as far as the machine can reach over the sides of the tracks at a 90 degree angle to the undercarriage and let it tip. If it tips even before the machine gets to it's full reach, it fails, I failed a Bobcat 435/430/425 and Volvo's ECR28/55/88 that way.
If it tips after we try to slam the boom down, but regains it's balance, then it's a keeper. My Dad's Hitachi ZX27/75's are like that, load up the buckets and drop the booms fast, they tip, but pop back down.
A lot of our work is at full reach, back filling walls and trenches and loading trucks, so the last thing we need is a tippy machine hitting things.

[bobcat_ron]

Hey ron are ya'll going to get a thumb put on this machine for demo work? if so I can give you some pics of mine, I know you like the monster thumb I have on mine!

Thumb is a must, when it's on demo to us, then it will come with just 2 bucket and a manual wedge lock coupler. If the deal goes through, it will have Volvo's hydraulic quick coupler.
The thumb will be a 3 tine set up, the 2 tine thumbs on our Cats are getting annoying for cleaning up concrete.
And any future machines are getting hydraulic quick couplers.

[Gravel Rat]

You start swinging with a full clean up bucket of muck and the machine is wobbling all over the place. Keep in mind your adding a thumb and if your going with a hydraulic coupler your adding more weight to the end of the stick.

A machine that size your never working in a area that tight. A machine that size your doing heavy digging and slinging lots of dirt.

[J. Peterson Grading]

My 58 is just insanely fast! Its got plwnty of digging power. But it will run out of ass before it runs out of power. If I had to do it all over again, I would have prolly went with a new 55C set up just like my 58, but thats not going to happen for quite some time. With the full house that the 55 has, it should be a way more stable machine.

That said, I do some things with the 58 that are usually done with a way larger machine. So what I expect it to do, it does.

As for a 38. I rented one before I bought my ditch witch. I had the little volvo for 2 months. It dug real nice, was real comfortable, and stable. But it had a problem with "Bucket close to machine power" For some reason it just didn't have any power when used up close.

I think when the Ditch witch goes down the road, another 38 will be the replacement

J.

[J. Peterson Grading]

Yeah the tip test.

My 58 fails every time

Its worse on the pulling in a full bucket with out tipping test. Its like we have to drag the bucket or dump the load just to lift it.

Its annoying


But I do agree with GR. The longstick, coupler, thumb, and BAB (Big, asz, bucket) of yours might be a problem. But that big volvo should handle it.

J.

[bobcat_ron]

A machine that size your never working in a area that tight. A machine that size your doing heavy digging and slinging lots of dirt.

We are seeing more tight work that demands a bigger machine, even this week long demo job required some fancy work to get the short tail swing 320CLU on it, it was busy at another location and my brother had to do some juggling.
Loading bin trailers is one key area where a 30+ ton ZTS machine is nice, even on the 290 there is some major "assege" going on, if the 290 deal goes through, the dealer will give us a free counter weight camera that Volvo pre-wires into the machine.

[bobcat_ron]

Yeah the tip test.

My 58 fails every time

Its worse on the pulling in a full bucket with out tipping test. Its like we have to drag the bucket or dump the load just to lift it.

Its annoying


But I do agree with GR. The longstick, coupler, thumb, and BAB (Big, asz, bucket) of yours might be a problem. But that big volvo should handle it.

J.


82,000 pounds should hold all that weight at the end of the stick, and Volvo took some time getting their 235's out, Cat, Komatsu and Hitachi already had their ZTS/RTS machines 3 years before Volvo, so hopefully Volvo did some competitor research.
Cat is one of the typical North American companies, design a machine and put it on the market in 8 months, then deal with the head aches (C series skid steers dust in the cab issues is a good reminder) later and disgruntled customers.
Hitachi and other foreign companies take years to develop products and build a few to test in the real world, Hitachi actually had a 345 RTS model, they only built 5, and 1 of them is on Salt Spring Island (Gravel Rat, you know which one I'm talking about?) There were also bigger models that Hitachi made, but they never made it to market because they might have failed the real world tests.

[Gravel Rat]

For the amount of money you would be paying for that Volvo you better find out if its going to work for your guys needs.

[J. Peterson Grading]

I have ran a 225 Hitachi ZTR, and loved it. Plenty of ass and pretty quick. I loved that machine, it was the machine I would request to dig basments. It had a hydro quick attatch so I could switch between a 5ft tooth bucket and a 5ft clean up. Made it so easy.

If I remember correctly, it was pretty stable. I also think on this new volvo, is if its a smooth operating machine it will help with the stability. Sometimes to being to quick will get them all wonky like.

But I do like your test idea. To bad most Minis would fail it. lol

J.

[ksss]

It's for those moments of complete distraction when we tear down buildings and a stray chunk of wood or rebar goes whipping around, or branches are falling and we don't want to lose a window.




The ti test is fill the bucket up (in this case it will have a 72" clean up on it) hang it as far as the machine can reach over the sides of the tracks at a 90 degree angle to the undercarriage and let it tip. If it tips even before the machine gets to it's full reach, it fails, I failed a Bobcat 435/430/425 and Volvo's ECR28/55/88 that way.
If it tips after we try to slam the boom down, but regains it's balance, then it's a keeper. My Dad's Hitachi ZX27/75's are like that, load up the buckets and drop the booms fast, they tip, but pop back down.
A lot of our work is at full reach, back filling walls and trenches and loading trucks, so the last thing we need is a tippy machine hitting things.

My 153 passes that test even with a 50" clean up bucket.

[alco]

How can anybody possibly be looking at a new machine in BC? Gravel Rat has told us all, over and over that there hasn't been any work in BC for a long time, and there won't be any work in BC for a long time. Gee, could he be off the mark a bit?

[J. Peterson Grading]

Well no one asked you did they Snane..

My 153 can even tie my work boots, and it starts my truck in the morning.

Lol

J.

[ksss]

Well no one asked you did they Snane..

My 153 can even tie my work boots, and it starts my truck in the morning.

Lol

J.


J. You dont have a 153. You have a Volvo so I am not sure what it does, but I am guessing just digging is taxing enough.:laugh:

Your friend,
Snane:drinkup:

[bobcat_ron]

Lots of work, and even if there isn't enough, the 305 can do the work because it will still get in the same tight spot that the 320CL can squeeze into.
3 more months and the oldest 320CLU and the CL models are paid for, then there are no worries about how much money is coming in and how much is going out.
Big brother saves over $6000 in monthly payments, and add another $1200 in mortgage payments that he saves because he has been renting a house now for a month.

What this Volvo will cost in payments, it will save in fuel costs.
The 290 he owned used 25 liters LESS fuel than the 320CLU, and the 290 was a bigger machine, with bigger horse power.
Go figure.

[J. Peterson Grading]

Snane.

You are correct.

But red just isn't my color.

Your BFF

J.

[Dirtman2007]

My 58 is just insanely fast! Its got plwnty of digging power. But it will run out of ass before it runs out of power. If I had to do it all over again, I would have prolly went with a new 55C set up just like my 58, but thats not going to happen for quite some time. With the full house that the 55 has, it should be a way more stable machine.

That said, I do some things with the 58 that are usually done with a way larger machine. So what I expect it to do, it does.

As for a 38. I rented one before I bought my ditch witch. I had the little volvo for 2 months. It dug real nice, was real comfortable, and stable. But it had a problem with "Bucket close to machine power" For some reason it just didn't have any power when used up close.

I think when the Ditch witch goes down the road, another 38 will be the replacement

J.

I caught myself in a lie, I was on the new EC 85, 55, and 35.

Here is the video of me on the 55, very nice machine I will say!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL2Bn3IEtEg

one on the 85

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaSV_GKv2Lw

[J. Peterson Grading]

That 55 is what I would like to get someday.

Are you sure thats an 85? looks an aweful lot like an 88. If the volvo mini model number ends in 5 its a standard house. If its got an 8 in it, its a zero house unit.

J.

[Gravel Rat]

I don't know Ron I don't see the benefit of the zero tailswing on a 35-40 ton machine.

The Zero tailswing machines are a b*tch to work on so when it comes to trying to do maintenance it costs more.

If I was your brother I would be looking at a 290 if he needs a machine bigger than a 20 ton or the Cats he has now.

[bobcat_ron]

I don't know Ron I don't see the benefit of the zero tailswing on a 35-40 ton machine.

The Zero tailswing machines are a b*tch to work on so when it comes to trying to do maintenance it costs more.

If I was your brother I would be looking at a 290 if he needs a machine bigger than a 20 ton or the Cats he has now.

Maintenance? On a new machine? On a Volvo? Nope. Not even on any of our Cat short tail swings.

Time will tell.

[Gravel Rat]

The Zero tailswing machines are horrible to work on I have worked on them.

New machines are not flawless you get leaks and problems. I learned lots of new ways of saying the "F" word with the 158 Komatsu I worked on. Everything is crammed in to one space that is in a conventional tailswing machine.

Had some leaking hydraulic fittings inside the engine compartment. I had to take my stanfields off my work shirt off so I had a bare arm so I could reach into the h*ll hole to get a wrench on the fitting.

[coopers]

No Hitachi's Ron?

[Gravel Rat]

The only Hitachi dealer in B.C. is Wajax and you have to watch out with them.

I think Volvo is probably a good way to go a little better than Komatsu.

Finnings will be begging Rons brother to buy a new Crappapillar.

[bobcat_ron]

No Hitachi's Ron?

No, they don't have a ZTS machine in the 30 ton class, and something funny is going on at Wajax, it has something to do with a buch of lease machines coming back and a long time sales rep being "let go".
All they have is a 270, then a huge jump to a 350.
Volvo has a 290, then a slightly larger jump to a 330.

[Scag48]

Ronnie, are you going to look at a PC308LC? The smaller brethren 228 is a favorite, I hate the 138, but haven't run the 308 personally. I was always under the impression that 30 ton hoes are the bastard size hoes; not quite small enough for tight spots, but a 400 is not much larger in footprint and will womp them in truck loading. I've spent some time in a dash 7 PC300 that I really like, size wise, and can appreciate the size class a lot more now. The biggest thing I've noticed is reach, you'll gain a little production over a 20 ton hoe but the reach is the best part. Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

[Gravel Rat]

I don't know how well Komatsu is now with dealers. It went from Terra Tech to Conecco now its something else.

Komatsu used to have a good dealer so it made it worth buying Komatsu now you don't know who the dealer is.

[alco]

The Komatsu dealer is now SMS Equipment, they're even worse than Coneco. I personally found Terratech to be horrible. Couldn't be bothered to do anything for you even if it was going to bring them a large profit......probably why they don't exist anymore.

I've never had any issues with Wajax, it must be a local issue on your end. I've dealt with quite a few of their branches across western Canada.

[Gravel Rat]

Terra Tech was pretty good around here the mechanic and sales person was around quite abit. The area gave birth to a whole bunch of Komatsu excavators. After Terra Tech left there wasn't any new Komatsu excavators being bought. There is the odd time you see a SMS salesman around.

Terra Tech salesmen were pretty persistant they were like a bad rash that didn't go away :laugh:

Wajax was okay I haven't heard much I haven't seen any sales people around in a few years.

[ianh]

A zero tail swing machine might be in my future as well... I'd like to know how to best test them against their conventional tail swing counterparts.

A full bucket of dirt over the side is as good a test as any; start close and move out... staying cloce to the ground:)

Extra care needed when loading ZTS too; can be a shock going over the "hump" onto a trailer... I cracked my head on the windsceen twice ta wake up to that! Slow learner :dizzy:

[ianh]

Oops... too late to edit

I see Ron more than answered the question long ago... I'm waaay behind in my reading... damn work!!