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bobbygedd
05-11-2002, 12:55 AM
pulled up to my customers house today, and saw that a new lawn co. was working on the nieghbors. now this neighbor approached me and asked for prices cus, "i keep the other properties looking so beautiful". when i gave him the prices, his jaw hit the ground, didnt get the job. anyhow, i see another company got the work, as i pulled up they are spraying weeds, they see me and bam, the sprayer goes back into the truck, fast. no numbers, or sign on the truck, now i can only suspect these boys arent licensed. i used to think so what, now im starting to feel a little pissy cus i pay for my license, and these guys must be doing it cheaper. really feel like calling these guys in when i see them. today alone i saw 3 guys applying, but no numbers on the truck. do u guys "rat" unlicensed companies out? i always said it was wrong, but i think im changing my tune

yardboyltd
05-11-2002, 01:08 AM
What I hate is that NONE of the LCO's here are licensed for spraying. I'm not licensened either, but I loose alot of business from potential customers. When bidding residential yards, I get asked if I spray too. I then have to explain to them that I'm not licensed, but make sure if they get someone else, make sure they're licensed... I don't think it makes a difference in their mind.

TJLC
05-11-2002, 07:14 AM
Personally, I wouldn't report them, it's just not like me to do this. I guess what goes around, comes around. I do wish the county would patrol for things like this but they don't. I admit though, it does bother me a little to see people doing things illegally when I pay good money to be 100% legit. Down here most people could care less if a company is licensed and insured as long as they give a cheap price. Sad but true.

awm
05-11-2002, 07:34 AM
bobby to be honest ,u did the necessary
do s and u dont have to put yours up ,when another lco turns up.
enforcement of these regulations will increase as time goes by. and u dont have to be a snitch.
my licence ran out last mont h and wouldnt u know it ,now ive finally been able to talk most of my older customers into the full program.to say the least ,ill definitly be getting my licence again ,quick as i can.until then ill be controlling best i can w fert and other means. but i do hate to think of us as a group constantly
looking for something to report to big
brother about.many will disagree and thats what this forums about,but this is my thinking on the subject.i wont be debating the subject.

GrassChopper
05-11-2002, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by bobbygedd
no numbers, or sign on the truck, now i can only suspect these boys arent licensed.

Don't jump to conclusions. I don't have any markings on my truck, but I am not a scrub. I am licensed and just don't have the desire to letter my truck. I get enough business without it.

wesLESCO48
05-11-2002, 07:46 AM
I see people putting out fertilizer with herbicide that i know aren't
licensed to do so and it makes me mad. I have lots of customers
requesting me to provide this service but i have to decline because i am not licensed but want to be some day. to me it's
not worth the risk of the fines etc. when i tell customers about this they look at me in disbelief so i explain it to them. I think
most of the joe blows doing this don't even know its illegal.
the earlier post about what goes around comes around is right
but who knows when its going to come around for them and its
impacting your business and the market value of this service
now, so i say report them.

tremor
05-11-2002, 08:07 AM
Here in CT we have an anonomous tip line that works for the benefit of all proessionals in this area. The complaintant doesn't have to sign a complaint since the association does it for them.

http://www.ctpa.org/

This helps our local Arborists & I support their efforts. Tree care as a profession has improved here in CT due largely to this groups efforts.

I sleep well at night knowing that all my customers today are legal, but I have very few & they are all larger than average. That said, I know some great applicators who started out as scrubs.

Let your conscience be your guide since that's all we have in the end anyway.

Steve

Brickman
05-11-2002, 10:12 AM
I say report them.
If it is like around here it won't do any good. A couple of years ago the guy working for me reported another LCO that his friend worked for, because of his unsafe spraying practices. This guy wasn't licensed, and all he got was a letter stating that he must be licensed and to stop spraying until he got one. The LCO never even slowed down. And the state never followed it up either.

smburgess
05-11-2002, 12:47 PM
No question, I would report them. Scrubs do nothing but keep prices down due to low overhead from not being legal (not paying taxes, not being licensed in many areas, no insurance,etc.) I called in a "man-with-mower" about two weeks ago to the county because I knew he didn't have a business licensed.

JimLewis
05-11-2002, 04:23 PM
I am kinda on the fence on this one. Part of me thinks we shouldn't report people due to the Golden Rule. But the other part of me agrees with you. I pay for all of my licenses. And I have spent a lot of time learning how to do things the right way. And it pisses me off when I see some unlicensed scrub doing things the wrong way, and keeping prices too low.

Still another part of me says we shouldn't report them because I am totally anti-big-government. I think the less government the better. And "ratting" these guys out only leads to more regulation, more enforcement, etc. So I dunno. It's a tough call.

Furthermore, I am not totally sure I agree that we need to have licenses to apply round-up and such in the first place. Homeowners can apply it without any training, license, etc. Why should it be any different if they just want to hire someone and tell the guy they hired, "Hey, can you spray some round-up over there on those weeds?"

Fortunately, in my state, you don't have to be licensed to apply pesticides and herbicides as long as you don't advertise for it and as long as it's incedental your lawn care or landscape maintenance.

pyrocare
05-11-2002, 05:46 PM
Just a little question,

How much does it cost in some of your states to be licensed and what are the requirements? (Age, qulifications, ect.)

I checked at the county extension here in South Dakota and it costs just $25 and as long as you can read you can take the test and get licensed. It is an open book test and everything. As soon as school gets out I'm going to go take the test since that $1,000 fine doesn't sound too appealing to me.

Casey
05-11-2002, 08:20 PM
I'm new to the business but worked out the license and insurance thing before I ordered the sprayer, in Nebraska it costs $25 for the license and $30 for the books, you can learn it on your own or for $90 they have a 6-7 hour class that will help you pass the test, and I assure you it is not hard. I would turn the guy in, but not because he is taking business but I want to know that the guy that is spraying chemicals on the lawns in my town isn't adding to the problems with the environment and risking the future of my grandchildren.

MATTHEW
05-11-2002, 09:07 PM
Politics make no sense. In OHIO, you can report them and you'll get "we don't have the manpower to deal with that". What a joke. The only way they get busted is if the ODA pulls them over, then, they're busted. I've been pulled over once in 13 years.

Mack
05-11-2002, 09:18 PM
Hey bobbygedd can you email me at tnmack@ameritech.net I have a question.

Robert Pruitt
05-11-2002, 10:47 PM
no need to turn him in. he will learn in the long run. i get stopped about once a month with a SOLO on my back. same guy same questions... DUH DUH?

cantoo
05-11-2002, 11:09 PM
I'm not sure what I would do in your case. He as much as took the money out of your pocket or at least of someone licenced, isn't that theft? GrassChopper I'm not sure of your laws where you live but here you have to have your applicator's numbers on your vehicle, I think that is the lettering he is talking about.

GrassChopper
05-12-2002, 07:10 AM
Originally posted by cantoo
I'm not sure what I would do in your case. He as much as took the money out of your pocket or at least of someone licenced, isn't that theft? GrassChopper I'm not sure of your laws where you live but here you have to have your applicator's numbers on your vehicle, I think that is the lettering he is talking about.

Ok, sorry, I misread that.

LAWNGODFATHER
05-12-2002, 11:15 PM
Tremor

As lesco has gone out of their way to sell to the general puplic and does not ask or verify for sale is the number one reason I quit buying from LESCO.

I have been there and watched them load pallets of fert with a herbicide in them on trucks for guys who have no clue how to spread it. I have spent many hours listening to the lesco guys explain how to apply. Hell the bags even gives you the letter for the spreader settings.

Control starts at the LICENSED suppliers.

Just like they reenforced the sales of freon they could also do it for cides.

I hope that is not a can of worms I opened but it's the truth.

LAWNGODFATHER
05-12-2002, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by cantoo
I'm not sure what I would do in your case. He as much as took the money out of your pocket or at least of someone licenced, isn't that theft? GrassChopper I'm not sure of your laws where you live but here you have to have your applicator's numbers on your vehicle, I think that is the lettering he is talking about.

No signs are required in Missouri.

BRL
05-13-2002, 02:25 PM
LGF,
Good points. Here in NJ the Licensed Suppliers can sell any Non Restricted Use pesticides to anyone. They can only sell Restricted Use pesticides to Licensed Apllicators. Many of tyhe common chemicals we use are not restricted use, so they sell to many unlicensed contractrs. Drives me crazy to watch it while at my suppliers.

Here in NJ you do have to have your Pesticide License Number on your trucks in 3" letters.

This thread subject comes up here every once in a while & my answer is: I tell the unlicensed applicator that what they are doing is illegal & how to get their license. I tell them that if I catch them again I will turn them in at that time and that the fines here in NJ can be up to $5,000.00 for each offense (spray 10 yards in a day and they can give the maximum fine 10 times, though its rare that they do). The last time I was in a DEP class they said there are only 5 or 6 inspectors for the whole state, so they are usually only tracking down major complaints, so you rarely hear about anyone getting caught. The reason I tell the applicators before ratting them out is because I didn't know at one time also, so I assume that they don't know the law.

Someone asked about costs. Here in NJ it is $75.00\year for the applicator license, and each business has to have its own pesticide license that is $150.00\year. Each business is required to carry a pesticide rider on their liability insurance policy (I think that added around $100.00\year to my policy).

fireball
05-13-2002, 03:04 PM
Lawngodfather. I disagree with you. Control is not with the liscenced suppliers. They are the ones who got you into this mess and to give them more control would only mean higher prices. In the late sixties and early seventies all the major chemical companies all said that liscencing was good because it would professionalize the individual applicator and he would be able to charge more for his services. End result was that our supply prices went up but our application prices didn't. The enforcement of these laws were left to the individual states to administer. The cost of enforcement was to come from the revenue produced by the companies who registered their products in each state. These companies cry poor mouth when the states try to raise the registration fees which results in less enforcement due to the lack of revenue. The end result is that all these government agencies do not like to respond to complaints since it tasks their limited resources. They would rather sit back and administer programs for the 95% of companies who are interested in doing a good job and buying their permits then to go out and track down the 5% wrongdoers. Here, in Philly and the surrounding areas, each township, borough, and county has individual contractors liscence too. I currently have 63 different liscences that are required, the truck bumpers and doors are plaid with all the different stickers. Not one of them will respond to my complaints about unliscenced contractors because it is hearsay evidence, they didn't see the contractor themselves and they ain't coming out on my account.

Until you hold the individual end user accountable for his actions, you will never have control. Imagine prosecuting the individual homeowner for not using a liscenced applicator. Bet you things would change real quick if Joe Homeowner found himself with some pollution fines. How come you can go to K-Mart as an Individual and buy all the Lindane you want in 8oz jars and can't buy it at Lesco in gallon jugs as a professional applicator.

As to the orginal thread, yeah go ahead and turn them in, it costs you a 34 cent stamp, removes the tension in your life, but really doesn't change much.