Requirments for GVW close to 5000kg (in BC)

[catnip]

I have a Bobcat that I will be using to do side jobs with, so probably 2-3 times a month.

I bought a trailer and registered it under my company, so it got registered as a commercial trailer.

By doing this apparantly the GVW of the trailer and it's load gets calculated in the total GVW of the truck?

After crunching the numbers I should be right around the 5000kg area. If I change the GVW on my insurance papers to over 5000kg, it looks like I need to get a National Safety Code number?

Like I said, I only plan to tow it a few times a month, and it seems like a big hassle if if I go over the 5000kg. I will rarely be on the freeway with it as well.

I am thinking to just go with 5000kg for ICBC, which is very close to what I will carrying anyways (+/- 100 lbs).

Anyone have any ideas/tips/suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

[bobcat_ron]

The GVW of the trailer is the total weight of the trailer plus the load, if the trailer is rated for 14,000 pounds and you know (from the spec's of the trailer) that it weighs 3,000 pounds empty, then you can legally carry 11,000 pounds before going over the manufacturer's limit.
If you are pulling the loaded trailer behind a truck, and the combined GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight) is over 10,000 pounds, you need a Class 3 (with air/trailer endorsement) or Class 1 (full air and trailer, best bang for the buck)
Now, you need to take your pulling truck and trailer to a weigh scale and get the whole package weighed, don't screw around, get it done.
If the combined weight is well over 5000 KGS, then yes, you need an NSC number and obviously a Class 1/3 licence.

Myself, I have a 21 foot GN trailer with a legal rated GVW of 20,000 punds pulled by an F450 with a GVW of 11,500 pounds, but loaded with my 247B2, and the whole package weighs out at 20,000 pounds (11,000KGS) so I made my insurance for 11,500 to be safe, you have to have the NSC and the owner/operator's name on the side of the truck, annual inspections have to made (regardless of commercial or not) and the decal displayed on the right side of the window.

Lots of good info here:
http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/CVSE/

ICBC and the CVSE have gotten rid of the "farm use" bullsh*t now, too many people were abusing that system, they didn't want to get their vehicles registered as commercial, so they tried farm, and they get caught doing "non-farm" use, same with diesel fuel.

Honestly, it doesn't matter how little you will tow it on a trailer, if you try to get around it, YOU WILL GET CAUGHT, and the CVSE will not let you move anything until the matter(s) are resolved, and that can cost you big time and money, pay a little no, or pay through your arse later, and even worse, get in to an accident, and you will be sued.

[catnip]

Thanks for the info!

I thought you could tow up to 4600lbs with class 5 or 7?

Class 5 or 7
Two-axle passenger cars and light trucks, motor homes (including those with more than two axles), limited speed motorcycles (e.g., mopeds and mini scooters), all-terrain vehicles, construction vehicles, buses and vans seating not more than 10 people. Allows towing of trailers up to 4,600 kg.

I will be well under 4600kg (about 2700kg) so I should be ok in that aspect.

Where can I go to get everything weighed (other than port mann)?

[Gravel Rat]

You won't beable to get away without the NSC number.

What size of bobcat are you plan on carrying ?

[bobcat_ron]

Thanks for the info!

I thought you could tow up to 4600lbs with class 5 or 7?



I will be well under 4600kg (about 2700kg) so I should be ok in that aspect.

Where can I go to get everything weighed (other than port mann)?

4600 KGS is 10,000 pounds, that's the total weight, trailer and load, no exceptions.
What happened in the earlier days (10 years ago) people were towing trailers behind their 1/2 ton trucks with Bobcats and mini excavators, they got pulled over and the officer asked why they didn't have a trailer endorsement or class 1, they said "as long as my load on the trailer isn't over the weight load of the axles, I'm allowed to do this".
NOPE.
A local landscaper here bought a T300 years ago with a tree transplanter, and towed if for years with a modded 1 ton dually, he was so far over the driver's class 5 license and truck's registration, he was lucky no one got sued, he got shut down and it cost him some serious money, but his excuse was "my t300 with buckets and transplanter are WELL WITHIN the 12,000 pounds of the trailer's axle load limits". Sure, but his trailer weighed 4,000 pounds EMPTY.

There is a weigh scale here in Abbotsford, look up Vedder Transport and ask them, and there is also a mobile weigh company around here too that the low bed boys use when they finish scratching their heads after loading a load they think is "legal".
You can also phone a gravel pit and ask if they can weigh you, even if it costs you a $20 dollar bill and Tim Hortons.

[bobcat_ron]

You won't beable to get away without the NSC number.

What size of bobcat are you plan on carrying ?

I don't have an NSC number, I have been pulled over 2 times this year and never asked for one.
I think when the peace officers see Mr. Bunny smiling on my grill, they know I'm a good guy. :rolleyes:

[Gravel Rat]

How did you get insurance ?

When I bought my first F-Superduty 8 years ago I got my NSC number I couldn't license the truck.

The only thing when you get over the 5500kg mark the CVSE inspectors get to run you over the ringer.

If you run a good clean truck and don't attract attention to yourself your not going to get hasseled.

The first thing a cop is going to notice is if you have burnt out lights or something catches their eye.

[catnip]

You won't beable to get away without the NSC number.

What size of bobcat are you plan on carrying ?

It is an S130 so a smaller machine.

The bobcat weighs around 4600lbs.
The trailer weighs 1150lbs.
My Titan weighs around 5100lbs.

So total GVW is a tad under 11000lbs. The NSC# is required above 11000lbs. Thus my dilemma.

According to the ICBC and CVSE website I can tow a trailer up to 4600kg with class 5.

(23) When towing a trailer is it necessary to get more than a class 5 driver’s licence to tow his trailer?
A Class 5 or 7 passenger car driver’s licence allows towing trailers up to 4,600 kg. To tow a trailer that weighs more than 4,600 kg, you need:

(a) A Class 1,2, or 3 driver’s licence, or

(b) A Class 4 or 5 driver’s licence with a heavy trailer endorsement (code 20), or

(c) A Class 4 or 5 driver’s licence with a house trailer endorsement (code 51)


My Nissan Titan can tow 7500lbs, so a 5750lb loaded trailer is well within it's limits.
The trailer has brakes on both axles.

Thanks again for the help guys. This is all new to me and a bit overwhelming.

[Danny Boy]

Ron that is very very well explained by you, Some great info, thanks:canadaflag:

[Gravel Rat]

I don't see too much of a problem. License the truck and trailer as personal use and go for it. Just make sure the truck isn't squating alot and the trailer isn't whipping around.

You will probably need WD bars with that kind of load with your truck.

[bobcat_ron]

Ron that is very very well explained by you, Some great info, thanks:canadaflag:

I learned the hard way, lights flashing behind me, pulled over on Sumas Way, 1 hour late for the next job, and I couldn't get anymore weight onto the truck, all I had to do was get my bucket off my T190 and on the truck deck, and then I could have gotten off with a warning, but nooooooo, I had to have all 3 of my buckets with me, 2 on the truck and 1 on the machine.

[catnip]

I don't have an NSC number, I have been pulled over 2 times this year and never asked for one.
I think when the peace officers see Mr. Bunny smiling on my grill, they know I'm a good guy. :rolleyes:

Just curious why you don't have/need an NSC number?


Thanks again everyone for all the great info!

[bobcat_ron]

Just curious why you don't have/need an NSC number?


Thanks again everyone for all the great info!

I'm not sure, they never ask, and neither do I, so I'll just leave it at that.

[catnip]

Was doing some more snooping around and found this bulletin from CVSE:

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/CVSE/ctm/section_1_licensing/bulletin_3.pdf

Can anyone decipher what they are stating?

[Gravel Rat]

That thing that Catnip posted is when your towing your pickup truck behind a machine. Say you run a mower that is mounted on a tractor and your running between jobs you can pull your pick up truck with a tow bar.

It also is the case with logging trucks lot of guys flat tow their pickup behind a logging truck when they are moving bettween jobs.

[Gravel Rat]

I'm not sure, they never ask, and neither do I, so I'll just leave it at that.

You will get caught one day Ronny so I would be getting a NSC number. If you ever have to license your truck at another ICBC outlet that sees your truck is licensed without a NSC number your going to get a slap on the wrist.

Your insurance might be null and void if you get in a accident you may not be licensed for what you do.

I'am fully licensed for hauing and dumping material. My truck is licensed for 6800kgs.

[Shadetree Ltd]

Where to begin,

There is a free self weigh scale located in the 700 hundred block of 176th by the truck crossing, free and on 24/7.

If your truck is registered over 5000 kg you need an NSC. There must be one attached to your truck Ron. The ICBC computer will not let you register the weight without one, period.

You do not need a class 3 at 10000 GCVW. Any trailer that weighs over 10,000 POUNDS requires what is called a heavy trailer endorsement or a class 3. You DO NOT need class three until tandem axles with no trailer. Any air requires air brake certificate.

Truck insurance must be registered to cover the weight of anything being towed.

Over 5000kg requires NSC.
Under 8200 kg does not require annual MVI
Over 8200kg with a trailer requires daily pre trip
Under 140000kg driven within 160km radius no trailer does not require pre trip.

The CVSE current "safety" (quota) campaign is the pick up truck up to 5 ton truck segment.

I have 3 5 ton and smaller dump trucks, 3 one ton pickups and three trailers with 6 roadside inspections in the past three years. Three weeks ago was the latest, knock on wood, no infractions yet.

[Gravel Rat]

I think Mr Bunny attracts the fuzz for Ron.

Over the years I haven't had any problems with the CVSE. Just don't pizz them off if they pull you over.

On your truck you have to display your name on the door. Make sure you have the sticker on the right license plate.

Anything over 5500kgs the sticker has to be on the front plate even if you use the truck as your pickup.