Starting out with a commercial walk behind?

[CJIII]

I would like to know is better to get a commercial walk behind mower like the exmark, scag, sapper,and honda.

[Scotlawncare]

From my experience.....YES. I ran 22" mowers for about 3 months then bought a 36" commercial. it paid for itself in no time with the shorter time it took me to cut lawns. Commercial units have better cut quality and most times faster blade tip speeds. spend the 2k on a new 36" exmark metro and you will not be sorry.

Scot

[Kent Lawns]

1.) eXmark
2.) Scag
3.) Honda
4.) Snapper

[Tim Baden]

I am with Scot and Kent Lawns all the way.You will be sorry if you don't start out the right way.
I too started out the wrong way 22"
push.I vote for Exmark all the way.

[CJIII]

How long should wait before I buy a ZTR? And I also would like to what size trailer should I buy?

[BLL]

wait until it seems necessary stick with what you got until you feel that you arenet working up to your maximum potential. If you get some 1+acre accounts and feel bogged go for the ZTR but doen get one if you have .25 acre lots(makes no sense) 14" is what i got now seems to work good. I would go no smaller cause if the business expands so does trailer size needed!Buy the biggest you can afford 16' would be nice

[Scotlawncare]

cj,

bit of advice, if you can't pay cash for it don't get it. A ZTR costs 6k plus. Also as BLL said if you have some large yards then it would be fine but smaller ones a Z will not be worth it just starting out. I have 20 accounts and two of them are 1.5 acres or larger and don't need a Z yet.

On the Trailer issue. open trailer get a 6.5x16 ft with a drop gate.
Should be able to find one for 8-900 new. an enclosed trailer shoot for a 7x14 to start and you better have a good truck with good brakes and a good brake controller.

On the open trailer get one with brakes on one axle. you will thank me later. that will add a few hundred to the cost but well worth it.

Scot

[CJIII]

Truck Wise? I am looking at getting a use S-10 chevy truck. I would like to know is a S-10 a good truck for lawn service

[wesLESCO48]

Go with a full size truck instead of a compact otherwise
you will be limited to about a 12' trailer. I have a 16'
tandem axle trailer and pull it with a 5.7 liter silverado
and find myself wishing i had a F250 PSD.

[darryl gesner]

I agree. I think an S-10 is too small. I think you'd wish you went bigger and would beat the @#&* out of it in a short time. I've seen guys pulling small trailers with minivans and station wagons, but I wouldn't recommend it. I'd say 1/2 ton full size truck as an absolute minimum and would go for a 3/4 ton if you can swing it. I have a 3/4 ton and the next will be a 1 ton dump (I'll keep the 3/4 ton too - better for plowing in my opinion).

[LLandscaping]

My opinion is that Exmark and Toro make a great mower, if you want quality of cut and dependability. If your not worried about the quality of cut go with Scag, they
make a good mower. I would get a full size truck, Chevy 1500 or larger, its better to have all the power you need than to not have enough.


P.S. I live in Hayden,AL.

I hoped this helped.
Lovell's Landscaping

[Nelson]

Toro, Toro, Toro........

Enough said............:D

[Doc Pete]

CJ,

Well, by the start of your post, you're already starting on the wrong foot. You need to do a little investigation and find out where to get a Hustler WB. Or, you can stay with the "also rans", and buy an outdated designed, hard on your hands, Pistol grip mower.
The sad part is guy's like you are listening to people tell you what to buy without any idea if these people actually know anything. By the very fact that 99% of operators use a toro, scag, bobcat, or exmark tells me they don't know or don't care to know, which is worse, a Hustler WB makes all other WB's laughable.
OH well, Good luck,
Pete

[darryl gesner]

Switchless - Congratulations on being the 1% that is right. Now I fell soooo stupid having just spend almost $5000 on a useless 48 inch Exmark WB. I guess you should put me in the "don't know" category.

I have one question about the Hustler's. Do you have to be arrogant to operate one?

[KirbysLawn]

Look and see what your local dealers sell. I differ in opinions on the choices above a little. I would only consider a mower that had an advanced steering system, avoid pistol grips unless you have/want huge forarms and carpal tunnel problems (I know some of you have used P-grips for yeras without problems).

Check out:

Hustler
http://www.hustlerturfequipment.com/wlkbehind/wlkbehind.jpg
Great Dane
http://www.greatdanemowers.com/images/scamper01.jpg
Exmark
http://www.exmark.com/mowerImage.asp?mower=TurfTracer
Toro
http://www.toro.com/professional/lce/prolinegear/tbarfloat/index.html

No way in the world I would buy a Honda, I tried one and after 5 minutes my hands were already killing me, the grips were very firm.

[Nelson]

Excccccuuuuuusssse Me.....Switchless......

But I do Know what I am buying.........

U contradict yourself all in one breath.....

Go back & read if u do not beleive me........



:rolleyes:

[Doc Pete]

Daryl,
Since when did the truth all of a sudden become arrogance??? I was going to buy a scag, exmark, toro or bobcat, but "I" did do my homework and realized the Hustler is by far the better. Sorry, if that pisses you off, but please don't blame me for your mistake.
If you like having to pull levers to slow down to start a turn, then let one out a bit, while you pull the other more and more until it stops, then continue to pull it so the wheel reverses, then carefully bring both to neutral as you make the 180, then let both levers out again to go forward , and do this for every turn you make, which is probably about 60/70 times for a 1/2 acre, "THEN" have a nice day.
All the Hustler needs is a slight twist of the handle to slow down as you begin to turn the handle bar, with one hand. Then a little more twist and you detent automatically to neutral. As you feel the detent, just pull more on the handle bar, with one hand, and you automatically perform a pefect non-marring zero turn. Finally, let the handle bar automatically return to center, and just twist it and you're back mowing in a straight line.
If you seem to read the word "automatically" a lot, that's because the Hustler system does just that and all without any guess work and lever mechanics.


If your exmark can turn, stop, back up, mow backwards, and perform perfect zero turns, AND all with just one hand, then "I've" made a mistake, and I apologize, otherwise, .................
Pete

[darryl gesner]

Switchless - It's not what you have to say, but how you say it. "

"The sad part is guy's like you are listening to people tell you what to buy without any idea if these people actually know anything. By the very fact that 99% of operators use a toro, scag, bobcat, or exmark tells me they don't know or don't care to know,"

Sorry if it offends you, but that sounds rather arrrogant to me.

I"m glad you found a machine that is simple enough for you to operate.

My Exmark with ECS works fine for me and my dealer takes good care of me (they fixed a hydro leak on it today while it was still on my trailer).

[Doc Pete]

Daryl,

OK, sorry if I sounded over the top:(. Naturally, my suggestion is only just my opinion, too. And, everyone still has their own. The reason I made that comment is most of us forget that in all honesty, a lot of info on the Net is "unfiltered hearsay", like it or not.
And, I'm sure that those of us that are the Net in their favorite "hobby forums" surely find this true. OOP's, we all know "Lawnsite" is our favorite hobby forum. But seriously, the Hustler and it's lack of customer awareness, only drives home my point that many of us are happy to stay with what the next guy has, and don't look for something better.;) Last, as far as I know, the Hustler hydro 48 with 17hp Kaw and full floating deck, is still well under $4,500. I bought mine for just $4,150, which was another reason I jumped at it.
Thanks,
Pete

[sheppard]

I started w/ a Snapper 36" belt drive. Before the first year was over I got my Wright Stander 52".

IMHO starting w/ a belt drive is the more financially prudent choice- especially if you are starting from nothing and generating your own accounts.

After you set a good track record of getting and keeping accounts then it's time to cost justify a Z.

Cordially,
Sheppard

[scottb]

I cant find a hustler dealer within in 45 minutes of me. If the price was right and a compent dealer was within a 30 minute drive, I myself would consider a Hustler. But you should look mostly at dealer. If you are considering belt drive in my opinon Toro is hard to beat. I have a Toro Proline 48 which is the same as an Exmark Metro 48 only with T -Bar steering, For belt drive systems T-Bar is hard to beat.
Good luck in making your decision.

[Jimbo]

I started out with a good 36" belt drive walk behind, and a 6x12' home made trailer. I already had the pickup 2000 Dodge Dakota with V8 engine.
The 36" suited me fine for over a year, and I would still recommend this size if you do mostly residential (It fits through most standard size backyard gates). Just recently I got two accounts which were taking to long to do with the 36" so I bought a Scag Tiger Cub 52" Zero turn rider to speed up the larger jobs. This unit can still do some of the larger residential jobs if necessary. When choosing the larger 52" mower I took into consideration that my 36" mower used 2- 18" blades (which I have many types and sets) and the 52" uses 3- 18" blades...Planning this in advance kept my replacement parts cost in order.
I cannot help you with the brand mowers to buy everyone has an opinion as you have read (personaly I like Scag because I know the product, I get good service in my area, and the parts interchange from model to model is excellent). Look for these things when making your decision.
Also watch what people recommend as I think there are some mower manufacturers posting about and pushing there products...Too many dumb founded responses like "this is the only type mower to buy"

If you have any other questions fire away.

[Double D]

For those of you who put Snapper last, have you ever tried one? Just a question. They have the loop steering, and are built like tanks. I would put my 52 " hydro up to any walk behind out there. But I don't comment on mowers I have never used. Just a thought for some of you guys who love to bash mowers you have never used. If you have used it, then tell us what you think, if not then keep your mouth shut.

[mowerconsultant]

A little Snapper news for you all, this came from a trade mag for dealers.

Snapper Up For Sale

Looking to raise cash by selling assets, communications and media
company Metromedia International Group Inc. is seeking to sell Snapper
Power Equipment, which it acquired when it purchased Snapper parent
company Fuqua Industries in the early '90s. Accountants for
Metromedia, which owns cellular communications and cable television
networks and radio stations, recently reported "substantial doubt
about the company's ability to continue as a going concern." According
to a company report, Metromedia's 2001 full-year net loss widened to
$263.5 million or $2.80 a share, from $39.3 million, or 42 cents a
share, a year earlier. Company officials say Metromedia has hired an
advisor to help manage the sale of its Snapper lawn and garden
subsidiary and may seek bankruptcy protection if it cannot secure cash
from outside funding or sales of assets.

[sheppard]

Thanks for the heads up re: Snapper.

The belt drive wb's are so simple finding a mechanic or spare parts will be a cinch for a few years even if they file for bankrupsy protection today.

(Just now had my first sip of coffee... should begin spelling correctly now).

Heard from a competative dealer in Tallahassee some months back that as a Corp. Snapper was not positioned well for the long term- we'll see.

Cordially,
Sheppard

[dlandscaping]

switchless,
I can make a three point or zero point turn with a toro hydro and some gears with one hand. I have never even seen a Hustler walkbehind in my area. Most companies use toro gears or scag hydros. I have a toro 36 gear and like the tbar. How do u climb curves or lift the machine up with a Hbar steering system on Hustler?? I cant picture it maybe since i never used one. I like the tbar the best since it is the easiest to use but it is not good in small properties where you need sharp sharp turns and repeated backups etc. I feel pistol or ecs is better there. I havent decided which hydro mower to buy exmark or toro and keep putting the purchase off. I tried ecs and it is a little complicated and i didnt feel my hands could do it all day long but maybe it was just becuase it was my first time. good luck

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by dlandscaping
switchless,
I can make a three point or zero point turn with a toro hydro and some gears with one hand. I have never even seen a Hustler walkbehind in my area. Most companies use toro gears or scag hydros. I have a toro 36 gear and like the tbar. How do u climb curves or lift the machine up with a Hbar steering system on Hustler?? I cant picture it maybe since i never used one. I like the tbar the best since it is the easiest to use but it is not good in small properties where you need sharp sharp turns and repeated backups etc. I feel pistol or ecs is better there. I havent decided which hydro mower to buy exmark or toro and keep putting the purchase off. I tried ecs and it is a little complicated and i didnt feel my hands could do it all day long but maybe it was just becuase it was my first time. good luck


I'd be interested in seeing a "zero turn" with either a belt or pistol grip hydro. That would mean you're walking at 3 mph and grab one lever, slow it down, reverse it and then go frontwards, all while the other wheel which you are not touching is still going at 3 mph. Just so we understand each other, zero turn is where one wheel goes forward while the other goes backwards and the machines pivots in the middle of the axle, not on one wheel.
As far as going over curbs, it sounds as though you are still going over the curb with the frontend. That's dangerous and difficult. The way we go over a curb, is back it over the curb, and let the frontend gently slide over it. This works great for doing city islands with a big rider, too, which can't be done any other way.
As far as doing small properties, that is where the Hustler shines. FYI, the H bar is spring loaded to go perfectly straight when you twist the bar. Pulling left or right on the bar makes the machine turn, and as soon as you stopping pulling on the bar, the machine centers itself and runs straight again.
Also, once you have twisted the bar to go forward, you can stop on a dime by just twisting the bar backwards, which bumps you into the spring loaded stop or neutral. Then, you can either pull left or right to perform a pefect pivoting zero turn to change direction or, just twist the bar further back to start mowing perfectly straight in reverse.
To stop the machine in reverse, since reverse is spring loaded to default to neutral or stop (for safety reasons) just relax your grip on the bar and machine returns to the stop postion.
This features of always tracking straight frontwards or backing up, lets you mow small sections going frontwards, then backwards then forwards again, without any attention to whether or not the machine will go straight.
Last, doing hedges or rosebushes or any other mowing that forces you to run with one handle in the thorns, is very dangerous with pistol grips, since, if you have to slow down, stop or anything else, it forces you to grab the lever in the throns to control the machine. With the H bar, you can do all your controlling from just one lever, which naturally would be the one in the open.
Hope this helps, since most people still don't have a Handle, pardon the pun :p , on the mechanics of the Hustler machines. Frankly, even my friend who has a pistol grip machine, when I allow him to use my machine, laughs and says, "This is too much fun, lets do another lawn".
Pete