double blades have set me free

[bobbygedd]

ive never considered using doubles, and never heard about doing so till i found this sight. well, with all the rain, and my limited time, i fell behind on my cutting, and that usually means double, triple, quadruple cutting, plus lots of raking and blowing. well, rather than go thru that, i stopped by my dealer and asked his opinion on doubles. he said he never heard of anyone doing that, and recomends i dont it will mess up my equipment. well, i did it anyway. gators on top of high lifts with a half inch spacer in between. URIKA! cut thru the high wet grass like it was nothing, and most lawns only needed to be cut once. this has really saved my ass. im back on schedule with almost no time lost. and the cut looks nice too. just one question, will this damage my machines? ive got 32+48 walkbehinds

[swn]

Have you tried them on the property you were in question about in the earlier thread? Just wondering how they did on it.

[bobbygedd]

not yet, but hes do friday, im gonna try them there. the only thing im woried about at his place is that he has nice landscaping, and we put in 4 yds of mulch not too long ago. the mulch is supposed to be brown, not green. so, ill try it out anyway

[UGA]

only cut around 4 hours per week but I LOVE THEM!!! There is
simply no comparison to what my cuts used to look like. I can regularly cut 4 inches of grass and not have enough clippings left over to worry about. Before when I cut bermuda 2-3 inches at a time I would have lots of dead grass left over - what a pain. And when I used gators to solve the problem then I wouldn't be striping as well. Now I get the best of both worlds. I sure hope that it doesn't wear out my clutch or spindles sooner than single blades would but at only 100 hours per year I don't think I have too much to worry about. Good Luck!!!

[awm]

aint it great. i agree bobby

[Guardian]

I have still paid little attention to the Double blade stuff on here....If I try, will I need to use something to keep the blades in a "criss-cross" pattern? How badly do they move? Is the spacer all you need...washer?

[Mark]

When i first saw this site 3ys back thanks to eric he told me how the double blade system worked, i have four commercial mowers and for 3yrs now they all are equiped with doubles thats all i run, i only use singles on my toro 21 proline, and if there was a way to put doubles on it,id be running them, Funny im the only guy in my town that runs them,ive told some exmark guys that cut a complex across where i cut a complex, they even was amazed at my cut and the stipeing,but they think it will tear something up, hell eric ran them for 12yrs without problems,as for tearing something up they seem to give my mowers a better balance with the four sides.So Guardian don't let that stop you from the wonderful world of double blades... Marks Mowing Service

[mklawnman]

hey bobby
What is the machine your using that you have doubles on?? Cause if i remember correctly you have a Turf Tiger and was wonderin if you have doubles on there. Cause im considering putting them on my 52inch Turf Tiger, hate cutting really thick grass and end up leaving strips of cut grass behind the mower, meaning not all of the clippings are getting blown out the shoot so im thinking with doubles this may help?? I did go slow too so it has nothing to do with the speed. Just for some reason ive notice that the Scag WB with the advantage cuts better than the Turf Tiger Advantage deck so who knows
Matt (lawnman)

[bobbygedd]

i put the doubles on the 32 exmark for starters. throws the grass about 10 feet, no trail by the discharge area, no sign of clippings anywhere, and sounds like a helicopter! use them, u will love them. still though, no one answered my question: will the double cause excess stress on the machine and do damage?

[LAWNS AND MOWER]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Guardian
I have still paid little attention to the Double blade stuff on here....If I try, will I need to use something to keep the blades in a "criss-cross" pattern? How badly do they move? Is the spacer all you need...washer? [/QUOT

I use fiber washers and have no slippage whatsoever. I´ve never used metal washers so I can´t tell you how they would do.

LAWNS AND MOWER

[lawnkid]

It all depend on what size engines you're running on those mowers. I only have a 14hp Kaw. on my 52" Scag Hydro and so it is too weak to use doubles. I've never tryed it but my dealer says I'll blow out my spindles. They work great though and stripe really nice.

[UGA]

I bought 3 double blade brackets at the Dixie Chopper dealer in Nashville and they were high(around &18.00 per bracket) but they work very well and are made of lightweight aluminum. Just check them if you hit an old burried iron rake head as I did (had to replace that one). But the dam* rake head was waisted! and my spindles and everthing else wer fine upon closer inspection.
As I said in an earlier post I have never been able to get anywhere as good of results running singles so I'm hooked and now that I've learned to let the choke out a little when I engage the blades I should be able to make my clutch last a long time.

[lasher66]

I asked my dealer about doubles also, he said he never heard of it either and it would probably put more stress on the spindles. But he told me spindles were about $60. So even if I had to replace them every year or two , I would still use doubles for the time and work they save me.
Has anyone experimented with both using the spacer between the blades and without it? What works better ?

Lasher66

[scottb]

I run a Toro Proline 48 and dont use a spacer in between and have never had a problem.

[ceaman]

I run doubles with no spacer on my exmark 26" wb with no problems. I have never had a blade spin yet with the bolts torqued to 75 ftlbs.

[mklawnman]

Double Blades have set ME Free TOO

Ive been on this site now for over a year and finally gave into putting doubles on my Turf Tiger. I just put them in an "x" shape under the deck using some 1/4inch spacers above the blades. Right now using two high lifts.
Today was a very wet day out with the rain tappering off by noon the grass was soaked, with singles on i can remember clumping everywhere, well today i was surprised to see that the clippings were small and clumping was little to none. Striping was excellent, better than i expected.
I guess we can thank Eric, ELM, for coming up with this invention of his,:cool: i think he's the one that came up with this. :rolleyes:
Matt(lawnman)

[TFL]

Doubles are great use them with a bagger. they have drasticly reduced the amount of clippings i get.

[lawnmowerman29]

I have asked a few guys about doubles and they never heard of them. i have a gravely 260z 60" and a gravely 36" wb. Do i need a bracket or do i just criss cross the blades and tighten down? Will they slip if i hit some junk?

[scottb]

Originally posted by lawnmowerman29
I have asked a few guys about doubles and they never heard of them. i have a gravely 260z 60" and a gravely 36" wb. Do i need a bracket or do i just criss cross the blades and tighten down? Will they slip if i hit some junk?


Just cross them and tighten them. And yes they could be moved if you hit somthing but you just losen them up and tighten em up again.

[TLS]

They will still be balanced, and you'll probably never notice till its time to sharpen them. If each blade is balanced, it DOES NOT MATTER what position they are in.... + x whatever. I think they create too much blowout, and tap too much horsepower.

My DC needed them, my Lazer cuts beautifully with single Excaliburs.

[lawnmowerman29]

well if the blades do move a little will that still make it cut ok? Also how many of you use a Snap-on cordless impact to change blades in the field? I had one but sold it now i need one again.

[Phishook]

Cut with doubles for the first time last week. Love them. the only reason I switched was because of this site.

Mulchers on top and high lifts on the bottom on 61" G.D. No clumping, tossed what was left about four passes away!

Planing on using them only on the high class lawns and tall lawns. Loosing to much ground speed for the average lawn. I don't think the spindles will be the problem, I'm more concerned about the clutch and engin pull.

Singles work fine for the average lawn up here.

[TurfGuyTX]

Originally posted by lawnmowerman29
well if the blades do move a little will that still make it cut ok? Also how many of you use a Snap-on cordless impact to change blades in the field? I had one but sold it now i need one again.


What kind of torque would be required? I've thought of having a cordless, but don't know if they'd be strong enough.

[EHesseyLawns]

i put doubles on my toro and they're great for the first week. but if you dont have one of those heavy duty torque wrenches ur screwed, i cudnt get em off for the life of me and i have to take it into the shop just to get the suckers off. doubles are awesome if u have one of those wrenches and for mulching up leaves i cant wait till the leaves start fallin! :D

[lasher66]

Its funny , early this summer I told a couple of other LCO's about doubles and they thought I was crazy. Last week I talked to a guy that said he uses doubles now because of the person I told in the beginning of summer told him that they were great. So, the word is getting around.

Lasher

[cglservice]

I put a set on this morning but had a problem wright of the bat.

Mower JD m665 put gators on top was going to put my high lift on the bottom BUT! there is two much space between the bolt and the inside hole on the blade, will not center itself on spindle
going to need to make a bushing for this unless anyone knows were such thing can be bought.

[Flex-Deck]

cglservice - I have JD 455's - a 60" deck is doubled - the gators on top have the large hole to center over the spindle nubbin - then the bottom blades are either eXmark or Dixie Chopper blades for a 60" because they are flat and have a 5/8" hole which is the size of the blade bolt - Now the Bolt centers the bottom blade, and the centering nubbin centers the gator on top

Thanks, Brad

[cglservice]

Thanks Flex Deck
I two had a 455 but traded this spring for m665 the gators i had
were from the 455 that i would try a double set up I guess i will order a new set of blades with a 5/8 holes.

Just a thought wonder what two sets of gators would do on leaves
:dizzy:

[Flex-Deck]

I have done both - gator for the JD on top and a gator that fits the Dixie or Exmark on bottom - I like the quality of cut with the Dixie on the bottom over the two gators - Both of the setups are so good I run them year around.

They will absolutely turn leaves into dust, and when mowing in the summer - the grass coming out the discharge area is just a mist - no volumn at all

I mow a cemetary, and it is wonderful to not have to worry about plastering the stones with a mass of grass when doing the final pass between the rows

In fact you can mow in all day, and I do not know where the grass goes, but it dissappears. It looks like you bagged the yard when you are done - Only problem with throwing grass in all day is that the trimming side of your deck is wrong, and you may spend more time getting around trees etc,

Thanks, Brad

[cglservice]

Brad
I could have used this info when i was mowing a five acre cemetary i will try this set up soon i still have one small cemetary
but mainly just to improve.:D
Thanks

[lawnperfections]

I would love to try doubles on my 36 Honda.
Can anyone give me some info on the setup.

[Flex-Deck]

Now cglservice - You put a flex-deck on that m665 you would really have something - Visit my sponsor forum for pics - I assume that is a ZTR? Here is what it looks like on a dixie chopper who has an exclusive with us, but we now have a reverse exclusive to put them on other ZTR's http://Dixie

[AltaLawnCare]

Originally posted by TurfGuyTX
What kind of torque would be required? I've thought of having a cordless, but don't know if they'd be strong enough.


A cordless Snap On will have enough torque,....probably on the lowest setting.

But we're talking a bout a $600.00 tool!

I use an air impact on the lowest setting for mine...its a craftsman made by IR.

I'm gonna try doubles on the Exmark to see what it does.

[Scraper]

That butt hanging out of the mouth looks great! ;)

As for the doubles which the thread began with...I'm starting to have my doubts...2 years of seasonal use and I just had to replace all 3 spindles on my Scag.

[Expert Lawns]

i started running doubles and will never go back.

this brings up a good question......do the doubles mess up the height of the blades? i usually mow at 3 1/4. is this still accurate?

[AltaLawnCare]

It did on my Torowhen I ran them. I got an elcheapo John Deere cut height gauge and had to go a 1/4 higher, or I jsut added one washer under the pins.

[MacLawnCo]

Originally posted by Scraper
That butt hanging out of the mouth looks great! ;)

As for the doubles which the thread began with...I'm starting to have my doubts...2 years of seasonal use and I just had to replace all 3 spindles on my Scag.

Were your blades balanced?? If they were then i dont know what to tell you. If not, unbalanced doubles will destroy spindles.

[Scraper]

Of course they were. Sharpened and balanced daily as well as spindles well greased.

[lasher66]

You are the first person that I heard of that had to replace spindles due to doubles. What was your mower doing that you noticed that you had to replace them?

Lasher

[TLS]

Scraper,

Do your SCAG's have the tapered bearings or the older ball bearings?

I have the newer style on my WB, but dont like the grease releif valve. I feel that the grease just goes in on one side and flows right out the relief valve. I'm sure the grease at the top and bottom of the spindle is from whatever the factory puts in. IMHO, they mind as well seal the housing and be done with it. I'm introducing dirt into it every time I grease them, and it still isn't getting to the bearings properly.

What are your feelings on this?

[wattsup]

TLS, do you clean off the grease fitting before greasing? If you do,what do you mean when you say you are introducing dirt in every time? Just curious, could save myself som trouble later on.

[TLS]

wattsup,

Wipe all you want, its the dirt you cant see that will do the damage. How about when you wipe the zerk, the ball in the zerk rolls and rolls dirt inside! Now how about the grease gun end? These mowers are dirty, get a little bit in, and ....

I still say that sealed bearings are the way to go! I hate daily grease points, the less the better!

[wattsup]

Never thought about that, but it makes sense. Now, I am with you on the sealed bearings.

[cglservice]

I had not look at it that way either, sealed bearings would be mulch better on longivity.

Question?
Do you just tighten the blade bolts down or
Do you torque the blade bolts down ??

[TLS]

Just make them "tight". I use setting #2 on my impact gun (not that it helps you) but, just make sure they're tight.

[Pro-Lawn]

I maintain a 40 acre cemetary, and the double blades stripe it up beautifully. Besides hardly NO clippings left behind. I made a mistake earlier in the season trying to save a little money on fuel and switched back to singles. AND boy did i take it in the a## , i had clippings Deep , but next time around i switched back to doubles, cleared it right up ! Ill never run without doubles , ever again. Make a bracket if you halft to. WELD em , if you half to ! Whatever it takes. Double it up . :D

Eric Goodwin
Pro-LawnCare.com

[Scraper]

Originally posted by TLS
Scraper,

Do your SCAG's have the tapered bearings or the older ball bearings?

I have the newer style on my WB, but dont like the grease releif valve. I feel that the grease just goes in on one side and flows right out the relief valve. I'm sure the grease at the top and bottom of the spindle is from whatever the factory puts in. IMHO, they mind as well seal the housing and be done with it. I'm introducing dirt into it every time I grease them, and it still isn't getting to the bearings properly.

What are your feelings on this?

I have the tapered bearings and I feel the same as you. Wish they'd go to completely sealed. No matter how well you clean off the fitting, grease is still going in. The doubles worked great the first year, but last year towards the end of the season I started feeling vibrations. This year the spindles were using about 10 pumps from the grease gun each on a daily basis before grease would come out the relief valve. After mowing an acre, you could take off the cover and any grease that had come out the relief valve was practically liquid the spindles were so hot. Not to mention I went through 3 blade belts this summer. Seemed as though it got so hot under there that the belts would heat up then crack after time. Not to mention the Advantage deck seems to accumulate quite a bit of grass underneath the cover, for reasons unbeknownst to me, thus allowing less air circulation to cool the spindles.

At first I was using the doubles for all lawns even if not needed so as not to have to keep switching them on and off. I may just use them on the "problem" properties this season and see if longevity increases. Not saying the doubles don't work great, as they do, but rather is it worth the cost of replacing the spindles at $150 a pop. Having now replaced all spindles the unit runs like a top.

[TLS]

I find that with spindles that have through bolts (hollow spindle, SCAG, some Exmark, etc) that there is more vibration. The long blade bolt is never a "tight" fit in the spindle shaft. Its as if the bolt can be "crooked" inside the spindle.

While on the Lazer, its smooth as can be with any blade combination.

As for grass around the top of the deck....Well, it's the same on the older styles as well! For some reason, my blower has no luck in blowing out this area on the SCAG. Now on the Lazer, it takes 2 seconds on either side, and the whole deck is clear of clippings.

This is just a few reasons why Exmark will be my next choice.

[Jimbo]

You guys might not like greasing the tapered bearing but they will last way longer. These bearings are just like automobile wheel bearings and they can handle extreme heavy loads. How much do you think one corner of a truck weights?

The roller ball should require some pressure to depress so cleaning it off with a rag should not push dirt into the fitting. The relief valve allows older grease to escape. I also pump some grease into a wrag before using my grease gun so that it is not dirty.

PLEASE STICK WITH TAPERED BEARINGS SCAG/ EXMARK


Jim

[Oliver1850]

I agree Jimbo. There is nothing better at taking abuse than the tapered roller bearings. In addition a cobination of cast iron and greasable just means better built and longer lasting.

My father owns a farm and everything is greasable. All of the no till grain drill and planter disk bearings are greasable and they are submerged in dirt all the time.

The Scag spindles only need to be greased once or twice a year depending on hours of use.

At the worst possible time this Spring one of the spindles on my Laser Z went out. I was angry because I was already behind and it took three days to put back in service.

[Scraper]

Originally posted by Oliver1850
In addition a cobination of cast iron and greasable just means better built and longer lasting.

The Scag spindles only need to be greased once or twice a year depending on hours of use.



Longer lasting? Then please explain to me how after 2.5 years all 3 went bad. I greased as needed and near the end was putting in 10-11 pumps/day. And once again, yes the blades were all balanced during each daily sharpening.

[Flex-Deck]

AND - I GOT CRAP about perhaps changing the topic, which I do not think I did, I only answered topics the Flex-Deck would enhance ----BUT

Here we are talking about greasing bearings on a thread that was talking about double blades??????


Am I going crazy or are there really two standards.
http://52X

[Doogiegh]

The original topic I believe is "Double blades have set me free"

And lots of posts of their super duper positive abilities.

Someone posted that they blew their spindles with doubles....

And that they did all the maintenance, including greasing them..

Might make some decide NOT to use doubles if spindle wear/tear is a negative aspect of running doubles.

So it's still on topic as to the positive/negative aspects of doubles.

Gary

[jsr2741]

Read this post and got all fired up, with rain predicted for tomorrow I went and bought 6 new blades and put them on the turf tracer.

Torqued to spec and went out in the driveway and fired up the mower. After engaging the blades I noticed a loping vibration, not constant but a lope, then it would smooth out then lope. Is this common or are the factory blades not balanced. I sure would like to give this a try but I don't want the deck coming apart.

[kppurn]

jsr-
I've had a number of brand new blades that were very unbalanced.
I always sharpen and balance new blades.

[jsr2741]

I figured that was probably it. Thanks Kppurn.

[Cut 2 Please]

Tried a new set up yesterday and it worked awesome. I put the OE Ferris blade on the bottom and an Eliminator blade on top. I mowed 6" tall bahia and crab grass mix down to 2.5" one pass with now straglers and everthing was cut up fine. No need to go back over it.

I do have a question about a 1999 Exmark Lazer 60" deck 25 hp Kohler. A friend of mine just bought a used one. I was telling him about running doubles. I have read or heard something about some mowers needing different size center holes when running doubles. Will that be the case on his or does he get 6 blades with the same size center hole? He wants me to help him go over his mower and get everthing set up right. He was going to pick up the blades before he brought it to my shop tonight.
Thanks,
Charles