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TAMU2003
11-17-2009, 03:08 PM
Howdy

Ive been offering a fertilizer program the last few years on mainly st. augustine grass. I've had really good success with my spring app. and application of winterizer but I want to add a spring and fall pre emergent app.

I have been recomended Dimension.15 and Pre-M .86 both with fertilizer. What are ya'lls thoughts on these products or any other recomendations.

Thx

Robert

greendoctor
11-17-2009, 06:32 PM
First of all, do you really need to apply preemergents to the lawn? If the grass is kept thick and healthy enough, with a solid nutritional program, I do not see the need. Otherwise, I would consider the root pruning effect of a preemergent application and its overall effect on turf health. If you thin out fescue or KBG, it can be fixed with overseeding. I do not know how to perform the same trick on st augustine. In my area, no conventional preemergents are applied to st augustine. I will use simazine or Gallery against persistent infestations by broadleaf weeds.

TAMU2003
11-17-2009, 07:55 PM
I dont have to have a pre emergent application. I just wanted to provide customers an option for weed management that would work.

I have had a problem with purslane in a few yards this past year and was thinking if I could kill it before it germinated I would be better off. Also I have a few that dont like clover so I thought a fall application would manage the clover etc.

Will the fertilizer/ pre emergent combo not help the grass or does it just prevent the stress that the herbicide puts on the grass?

grassman177
11-17-2009, 08:05 PM
I dont have to have a pre emergent application. I just wanted to provide customers an option for weed management that would work.

I have had a problem with purslane in a few yards this past year and was thinking if I could kill it before it germinated I would be better off. Also I have a few that dont like clover so I thought a fall application would manage the clover etc.

Will the fertilizer/ pre emergent combo not help the grass or does it just prevent the stress that the herbicide puts on the grass?

i thought is was funny you mentioned about a "few" customers that dont like clover. wow, here, no one likes it but the hippies! it is a curse to a nice lawn, but then again, we arent growing the same kind of turf

greendoctor
11-17-2009, 08:09 PM
I dont have to have a pre emergent application. I just wanted to provide customers an option for weed management that would work.

I have had a problem with purslane in a few yards this past year and was thinking if I could kill it before it germinated I would be better off. Also I have a few that dont like clover so I thought a fall application would manage the clover etc.

Will the fertilizer/ pre emergent combo not help the grass or does it just prevent the stress that the herbicide puts on the grass?

What are you using as the postemergent control on st augustine? I use either low rates of Speedzone Southern or a metsulfuron/Quicksilver tank mix. This is only done to well irrigated lawns not suffering from any other stresses.

TAMU2003
11-17-2009, 09:11 PM
I havent offered either pre or post emergent weed control.

The label of pre m said to make one application then monitor the lawn and if it needed to be reapplied make another application of 2.7 lbs per thousand.

Yet, I like the speedzone southern it could be tank mixed when I make my insecticide application to polish off any weeds that made it through. The only problem with it is I cant use it on floratam.

greendoctor
11-17-2009, 09:30 PM
Pre-M on st augustine has caused a floating root system in my experience. It is already a shallow rooted turf. DNA herbicides do not help this. That is why I prefer Gallery if I know broadleaves will be a problem in warm season turf. It stops the weeds without root pruning.

I am not so sure about mixing insecticides with herbicides for a one shot application. Reason is, application parameters are different. Insecticides are always applied at high volume and pressure. Herbicides are applied with lower volumes and special attention to drift management.

TAMU2003
11-18-2009, 08:22 AM
Thanks for the advice on pre m. Do you have any on dimension?

I guess its just going to be trial and error.

greendoctor
11-18-2009, 02:23 PM
Dimension is similar to the DNA herbicides on warm season turf. I use lots of Dimension in ornamental beds where grass growth is not desired. If grassy weeds are a problem in st augustine, I look at how dense and vigorous the turf is being maintained.

Marcos
11-18-2009, 03:08 PM
First of all, do you really need to apply preemergents to the lawn? If the grass is kept thick and healthy enough, with a solid nutritional program, I do not see the need. Otherwise, I would consider the root pruning effect of a preemergent application and its overall effect on turf health. If you thin out fescue or KBG, it can be fixed with overseeding. I do not know how to perform the same trick on st augustine. In my area, no conventional preemergents are applied to st augustine. I will use simazine or Gallery against persistent infestations by broadleaf weeds.

Here! here! :waving:

No reason for pre emergent at all as long as you and/or your customer's doing everything to keep turf density maximized!
TAMU, the secret is that you've gotta work with with your clients from day 1 and let them know what your strategy is....a thick, healthy lawn w/ the use of less chemicals.

This involves involving the clients in conversations surrounding proper mowing & irrigation (if they're DIY'ers) and if they hire others to do these services, we work to instill a stronger will from them to demand a higher level of services from their mowing contractor (etc) if evidence shows they've been negligent.

For 9 years now we've been gradually reducing pesticide use and now we're to the point to where we just treat hard perimeter edges (concrete & blacktop driveways & sidewalks) with either Dimension or corn gluten meal, depending upon the customer.
The balance of turf gets a program of protein meals or finished compost, and if problems occur, seeding is done to prevent weed encroachment.
For EVERY new prospect we show them what they can have if they simply join our team & work with us toward a mutual goal.
That's our approach & overall philosophy.

TAMU2003
11-18-2009, 05:45 PM
I havent been fertilizing lawns very long but it was always my understanding that a well fed lawn (especially st augustine) will out compete weeds and force them out.

I just didnt know if a pre emergent would help or hurt my cause.

I really do appreciate the advice.