Kawasaki #1 Cyclinder guide problems.

[Richabrad9]

OK Guys, I'm new here so bear with me. I have been fixing small engines for many years and this one takes the cake!! I worked this summer for a lawn care business as a general help for the crew and repair person. He uses two 48 inch cut Ferris walk behinds. When I started one was already down,, It had the exhaust valve guide on the #1 cylinder slipped and bent the push rods so the head had to be replaced. Engine was clean and the fins were not obstructed. Well, within 3 or 4 months the other Ferris did the exact same thing.. I am now waiting on a head for it as well. Like another member I read Kawasaki states it is Operator error and will have no part in it. The guy on the phone questioned my ability and pretty much was rude. If you know the Ferris,, the #1 cylinder has the muffler and the cross section of the exhaust pipe inches away but the #2 is clean and free. Kawasaki is at fault for the design of the muffler or Ferris for the design of the mower, I don't care. Anyone else having this problem?? PS one has around 1500 hours the other has around 2800 hours and valve adjustment was good. I tried to eliminate anything they could tell me. What can be done to help the new heads survive?

[Sharpcut 1]

I'm a Kawasaki dealer, and have had this happen at least a dozen times in the last two years. Kawasaki says it's the operator letting the head get to hot. The hours have been from 400 to 1500 when this has happened. Some were packed with grass, some clean. I don't even replace the head antmore. Just air up the cylinder, pop off the spring, pound the seat back in, tack it with 2 quic welds, or stake with a punch, new seal (if required), and install the spring. Have'nt had one come back yet. usually out of warranty when this happens. But Kawasaki has no problems!!!

[Richabrad9]

Thanks for the info,, On the weld are you using a tig?? I am not a welder so I will have someone do this for me. As far as I am concerned, I will not recomend a Kawasaki to anyone. We also have a Great Dane 52" Super Sufer with a 20hp Kohler and the only thing I've done to it was a gasket change on the carb. I has over 2500 hours on it. Its sad that even dealers are getting told the same excuse. If the engine is clean it should not overheat. Briggs may not be the best compared to most but at least its cheap and easy to find parts make up for it. Thanks again.

[pugs]

All the ones I have seen this happen to have been the operators faults....usually fins packed and clogged beyond belief.

I just tore into one and found the guide just slightly dropped out. The other head was just as badly packed so I pulled it off just to check it out....good thing I did. That one was worse. The guide was moving in the head. The seal was gone because it had just been floating around going up/down with the valve. I took the guide out by hand.

If it is the muffler causing it on that machine then it would technically be Ferris's fault. I know at least on the older dual drives it was their own pipe and muffler. I would have to look at the newer style one we have here...since they have turned the engines around on them...not sure what they are using now. Although Kawasaki mufflers end up in the same position so I doubt that is causing the issues.

[East Coast Lawn Choppers]

We've had a dozen or so of those this year too. Most were clogged with very little air flow. But we did have one that was clean as a whistle. We pound them back up and stake them, put on new seals good to go... the one thing with the kawi is... they last about 1,000 hrs with little or no problems and then they are very cheap to replace or rebuild.

[Richabrad9]

I' ve seen that the engines are now facing the cylinders outward. I like that better. Like I said, both of ours were not spotless but not clogged. I do understand that if there is no airflow then they will overheat. None the less the damage is done and will be repaired, but I will surely not use or recommend Kawasaki if for any other reason then the people working there are just plain rude to the consumers buying and using there products on a daily basis. But the good thing is I have had no leaks from either of them like a lot of the other post had stated. Yes the engines are solid and powerful but I am a customer service type of guy. I like to treat people the same as I want to be. Thanks again for all your help.

[pugs]

You guys that are pushing them back into position...how do you get them to the right depth and hold them there? Like the one I just had the thing was sliding free in the head. Unless you know the exact position they are supposed to be in kinda tough to put them back and hold them there.

We are talking guides here...NOT valve seats.

[Richabrad9]

On one of the Ferris's, it was like yours, the guide was free and just beating around in the head, that is why I had to replace it on that one. The one that is down right now is still a little tight but with use it is still slipping. As far as setting it back to the right position, I looked at the other side and measued it as the new head I recieved for the other one was the same on both sides. The head is 139 dollars at Jthomas onless you guys no anywear else that is cheaper. One of the main problems I have here is there is no local dealer that stock simple parts need on a regular basis. I have to order everything.

[mowerknower]

OK Guys, I'm new here so bear with me. I have been fixing small engines for many years and this one takes the cake!! I worked this summer for a lawn care business as a general help for the crew and repair person. He uses two 48 inch cut Ferris walk behinds. When I started one was already down,, It had the exhaust valve guide on the #1 cylinder slipped and bent the push rods so the head had to be replaced. Engine was clean and the fins were not obstructed. Well, within 3 or 4 months the other Ferris did the exact same thing.. I am now waiting on a head for it as well. Like another member I read Kawasaki states it is Operator error and will have no part in it. The guy on the phone questioned my ability and pretty much was rude. If you know the Ferris,, the #1 cylinder has the muffler and the cross section of the exhaust pipe inches away but the #2 is clean and free. Kawasaki is at fault for the design of the muffler or Ferris for the design of the mower, I don't care. Anyone else having this problem?? PS one has around 1500 hours the other has around 2800 hours and valve adjustment was good. I tried to eliminate anything they could tell me. What can be done to help the new heads survive?

You are really going to bad mouth Kawasaki for having a valve issue at 1500 hours and 2800 hours. Sure it sucks but it sounds like you got some pretty good hours out of those machines before a fairly major breakdown.

[Richabrad9]

For the most part, I agree, Good engine but I have personally owned and seen many other brands come in with many more hours on them then that. The main problem I believe is the placement of the muffler and or engine. But the guy didn't even want to consider that claim. I strongly believe that if it were in a better position that the engines would last twice as long. But I will bad mouth Kawasaki because of there poor customer service and treatment. You seriously want me to buy another Kawasaki when even in the thread above the dealer has had trouble with them too. Its the operators fault and that's it. I take really good care of all my equipment. I have a 24 year old 3.5 briggs that still runs and no major problems in its life. Not that that means anything but think of the hours that cheap non commercial engine has. But enough babbling, CUSTOMER SERVICE IS THE KEY.

[Valk]

Which engine orientation is causing the most issues? V-twin running front-back or side-to-side?

[Richabrad9]

The cylinders are facing sideways on the mower. The picture in the attachment shows what I am saying. The muffler and cross pipe (yellow arrow) are inches from the cylinder and as your moving forward that heat has no were to go. The number one runs hotter then the number two. I believe this engine would last twice as long if it were not for that. Just the same the fuel pump is right behind the muffler as well. Sorry if I offended anyone about Kawasaki but I feel these are valid points and to be treated as if I do not have a clue is a sure fire way to keep me from purchasing or recommending there product. If indeed it is Ferris's muffler then why did he act like he did and just tell me I needed to contact Ferris. The guy was an As! to me and that's all it takes. If told your customer's they were wrong and then challenge there ability or knowledge do think they will call you back??

[mowerknower]

Not saying that there is any excuse for the way kawi treated you. I have had manufacturers threat me like Im a moron too. Looking at the picture I think that you have a bit of an oil leak and definatly some clogged cooling fins. Gotta keep that area clean for cooling.

[Richabrad9]

The oil is from the valve cover because I took it off to check the guide, I had reseated it, ran and checked to see if it moved again and it did. As for the fins, you can look down them and see daylight, I keep them cleared out. I've been lurking at all the forums and it seems that this is not an isolated incident. At least I can work on them so I don't get stuck with the Repair bill. I could even understand if only one of them did it. The fact of the matter is both of the Kawasaki's did the exact same thing at 1000 hours apart. I don't care if I got my use out of them or not, I kept them clean and its like no matter what you do, there going to break.
That's two of mine plus the ones on this site not to mention how many more unspoken/unheard of. Were getting screwed because if this was a car manufacture they would have issued a recall due to consumers saying something about it. It should be the same for this type of product as well.

[tryingtomakeit]

Last summer, working at a JD dealership, the air cooled Kawasaki zero-turns (737, 757) have the same problem, only on the other cylinder. All with some hours on them. Some clean, some plugged. And the muffler is in the back, on the same side as your muffler.

I did at least four head swaps...

I always thought that a bronze guide, or liner, would alleviate the problem.

[Richabrad9]

Glad I was not the only one thinking that there was another issue here then a bad engine build. I thought these had alot of hours on them but looking back there only at around 600 and 700 hours. Thanks for the post.